Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't understand the whole "return-to-form" thing. I personally like the Paper Gimmicks because, and this is just me, it was originally a visual choice, now it's actually being utilized. I played the og Paper Mario and to be honest? I didn't find it to be nearly as great as people praise it. No clue on TTYD though. I know it's an unpopular opinion but this looks promising. Heck, Color Splash looked promising to me because Paper Mario is always trying new things while still trying to be fun, but people just can't let go of the fact that they don't intend on going back to the EXACT formula from the original. Give it some time when it's actually out and then make your case: there's too many unknowns.

TTYD is basically an updated Paper Mario 1.

• All the partners have their own Badges and HP this time.
• You have way more HP/FP/BP max.
• You can have multiples of each badge, bar some story-only ones. Danger Mario is an example of this, where you are unable to be hit if you have 5 or less HP due to extensive dodging ability, and your damage is boosted super high for having "low" HP. Basically more or less it broke the game in half.
• Not all of your cool badges like Zap Tap are available for your Partners, so that's a small downside to making the Partners more unique.
• The partners are the same core idea as last game, but they have more screentime, basically.

For the most part, a lot of it is the same. But, well, more.

 

[T2by4]

https://youtu.be/Fq7D2Rpc9jg

More NES games update for 20 May. SMRPG still MIA.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Today I learned:

People don't like paper gimmicks in paper mario apparently.

I dunno, personally I thought that was one of his arguments for how he'd be much different than Mario in smash.

 

[pinshadow]

Panel de Pon is awesome, but man these are some weird choices. Wild Guns already has a Switch version doesn't it?


I'm still just...blown away by this. How the hell have we looped around to the point where the main games are introducing more unique and interesting locations and characters than the RPG's? Like, that's amazing, it's what I've been wanting in mainline Mario for years, but CHRIST Paper Mario WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

Today I learned:

People don't like paper gimmicks in paper mario apparently.

I dunno, personally I thought that was one of his arguments for how he'd be much different than Mario in smash.

No, that was pretty much the main reason I DIDN'T want him, I'd love if he was based around using the different partners for all his attacks, plus having the hammer, the spin as his dash attack, honestly the moveset makes itself. I was worried if he did get in it would be all about stickers and paper gimmicks.

 

[Polarthief]

People don't like paper gimmicks in paper mario apparently.

TTYD where it's a couple of moves: Totally fine and kinda funny, especially the curse chest interactions.
SS/CS where paper is forced in your face at every joke and moment: It breaks the fourth wall way too often in an obnoxious way.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, I began to like Paper Mario as a character when he actually felt like a Paper person. The first two games he was not terribly interesting. They started to evolve him and his abilities well.

PM is a great character who has paper abilities, partners, summonable items via stickers/cards, and now can change the position of an enemy in 3D. I love what they did. He doesn't feel like a Mario 2.0 anymore like the first game. I also didn't find any of his new Paper gimmicks overwhelming or ridiculous. I thought they gave him tons of cool and unique abilities that made him stand out as his own person. But I never found any of the gimmicks actually problematic in itself. Certain aspects(the stupid usage of the how the Thing cards were, but how you get the Thing cards was really cool and innovative), but... that's kind of it. That's the "puzzles" in SS too. Find the right thing to KO the boss/remove the roadblock. Those are shallow puzzles. I love messing with the environment too. Going 3D in Super Paper Mario was cool. I do feel the Paint stuff is the first mechanic to feel outright forced, though. Using items should be easy, not require you to perfectly paint them for effectiveness. The rest? No, they were pretty innovative, imo.

 

[pinshadow]

Honestly, I began to like Paper Mario as a character when he actually felt like a Paper person. The first two games he was not terribly interesting. They started to evolve him and his abilities well.

PM is a great character who has paper abilities, partners, summonable items via stickers/cards, and now can change the position of an enemy in 3D. I love what they did. He doesn't feel like a Mario 2.0 anymore like the first game. I also didn't find any of his new Paper gimmicks overwhelming or ridiculous. I thought they gave him tons of cool and unique abilities that made him stand out as his own person. But I never found any of the gimmicks actually problematic in itself. Certain aspects(the stupid usage of the how the Thing cards were, but how you get the Thing cards was really cool and innovative), but... that's kind of it. That's the "puzzles" in SS too. Find the right thing to KO the boss/remove the roadblock. Those are shallow puzzles. I love messing with the environment too. Going 3D in Super Paper Mario was cool. I do feel the Paint stuff is the first mechanic to feel outright forced, though. Using items should be easy, not require you to perfectly paint them for effectiveness. The rest? No, they were pretty innovative, imo.

I guess I need to explain myself here.

• For Super Paper Mario, the 2D to 3D gimmick is really good...on paper. I feel like it wears out it's welcome by the end, but I think the real issue is just the moment to moment gameplay. I just think it's a really boring, slow platformer in both 2D and 3D with no momentum or flow whatsoever. I like puzzle-platformers alot, don't get me wrong, but the way the puzzles and areas are designed feels much more the first two games than a traditional platformer to it's detriment. If you are going to make a platformer, go all in and not whatever Super is trying to be.
• In Sticker Star, I actually like the IDEA of placing Stickers in the overworld alot, very Okami vibes. But it can be pretty obtuse, the bosses are all boring puzzles because of the sticker system, and the stickers drag down the battle system to the point of it being obsolete.

I didn't play Color Splash so I got nothing. It doesn't help I'm just not a fan of the Paper artstyle, especially in Color Splash. The white outlines are ugly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I guess I need to explain myself here.

• For Super Paper Mario, the 2D to 3D gimmick is really good...on paper. I feel like it wears out it's welcome by the end, but I think the real issue is just the moment to moment gameplay. I just think it's a really boring, slow platformer in both 2D and 3D with no momentum or flow whatsoever. I like puzzle-platformers alot, don't get me wrong, but the way the puzzles and areas are designed feels much more the first two games than a traditional platformer to it's detriment. If you are going to make a platformer, go all in and not whatever Super is trying to be.

I love slower platforming. I felt that was an amazing way to improve the series and change it up. You couldn't go that fast either way. Paper Mario was always a platforming rpg in some way, with puzzles. This never changed. I felt Super really captured the idea well. Bowser/Peach/Luigi, to be honest, were pretty boring in comparison. The Pixls were neater. I get what you're saying, kind of, but I felt it was really well done.

• In Sticker Star, I actually like the IDEA of placing Stickers in the overworld alot, very Okami vibes. But it can be pretty obtuse, the bosses are all boring puzzles because of the sticker system, and the stickers drag down the battle system to the point of it being obsolete.

I didn't play Color Splash so I got nothing. It doesn't help I'm just not a fan of the Paper artstyle, especially in Color Splash. The white outlines are ugly.

Oh, I get what you mean. I hated how confusing the puzzles in SS were. But I loved the fact the inventory wasn't small as hell for once. I just wish the inventory was more useful too.

And fair enough on the art design.

 

[Polarthief]

Just a reminder for people who forgot/to tell people who never played the originals: I don't think there's a *single* paper joke in PM64, and maybe one or two is in TTYD. It was an art style; PM64 was like a popup book, hence the paper, telling a story to the viewer (player). It was charming and adorable. TTYD cranked it up a bit, still keeping the flat aesthetic, but had a new art style. That said, there wasn't any paper jokes outside of the paper moves: Plane, Paper (basically the gimmick for SPM), Tube, and Boat. The really high jump with the ultra boots (forgot what it was called) also squished Mario down (like paper should) to get more jump power, a la SMB2/Doki Doki Panic. That said, other than when characters turned, it never *felt* like paper. Yeah they were flat, but you were never reminded of that all that much.

Sticker Star then comes in with the awful "everything has a white outline" paper aesthetic that we also saw in CS and now in tOK that frankly I hate, but beyond that, everything is suddenly a joke about paper, whether it's getting wet (which ruins paper), folding/creasing paper, blowing paper away with fans/wind, everything is paper, and it's constantly thrown into every joke like after you catch a bug or fish in Animal Crossing (C+ HURRDURR), but in AC where it's just one line for each catchable thing, about 90%+ of the jokes/"humor" is paper-related things. We get it, the game is PAPER Mario, but that doesn't mean we have to be told that every second. What if there was a Final Fantasy game where they used puns/a play on words for "Final" and "Fantasy" every chance they got? What if Mario Party's dialogue was just about partying, maybe getting pizza, doing some drugs, going to the club, etc? It's beyond obnoxious and isn't clever writing when it's a large bulk of it. The trailer for tOK (speaking of which, "ORIGAMI" is in the title) literally opened with a cult of differently-folded paper. It's intended to be what seems to be a serious moment but even Origami Peach can't help herself but drop at least 2 or 3 paper puns and it really just puts an awful taste in my mouth.

I don't even need to get into the gameplay, which I'm sure will also have plenty of paper jokes like SS/CS before it, but just from what I've seen, I'm honestly sick of how forced the paper thing is. Fans of the original just enjoyed the neat art-style since it wasn't really done before, but now it's just "HAHA PAPER IS FUNNY ISN'T IT?!" and it's just really, really annoying.

The first two games he was not terribly interesting. They started to evolve him and his abilities well.

Could you like, elaborate on what you mean by that?

He doesn't feel like a Mario 2.0 anymore like the first game.

????? Who was calling it that? Paper Mario and Mario are completely different characters and have been since even the first game. Also seriously, besides the RPG games, I don't really remember when Mario was actively using hammers in any capacity; that's only been a thing in SMRPG, PM, and M&L. The Hammer Bros suit (that started in SMB3) really doesn't count since it's not always part of his toolkit. The hammer alone set "RPG Mario" and "Mario" apart from one another.

I also didn't find any of his new Paper gimmicks overwhelming or ridiculous. I thought they gave him tons of cool and unique abilities that made him stand out as his own person.

It's not that the gimmicks are the problem, it's more the whole "PAPER IS EVERYTHING" attitude they're taking with it when that was not at all what turned people on to the first two games (also throw SPM in there; paper wasn't an annoyance until Sticker star).

Certain aspects(the stupid usage of the how the Thing cards were, but how you get the Thing cards was really cool and innovative), but... that's kind of it.

Everything about the Thing stickers were the worst aspect of anything I've ever played.

I love messing with the environment too. Going 3D in Super Paper Mario was cool.

It was, but all it made me do was 3D search every room to completion, even if there was nothing in it, which just makes you explore every area twice and most of the time, you won't even be rewarded for doing so. It was a neat idea early on but they really needed to expand on it.

The rest? No, they were pretty innovative, imo.

They really weren't though. Like, define innovation to me, because there's a razor thin (or let me be like modern Paper Mario and say PAPER THIN HURRHURR) line between "innovation" and "gimmick", it's near indistinguishable. Honestly, everything in SS/CS was a gimmick to me moreso than an innovation. Innovations are innovative because they're good ideas that deviate from the norm, especially in something established that is bad. Gimmicks are what's added to drive attention to it. Making battles pointless and not having level ups is not innovative. Having an item-only battle system so you have to run away from battles if you run out of stickers/cards is not innovative. Running around to find the one Thing sticker/card you missed to progress is not innovative (hell they literally have this in many adventure games except many times it's not an item); these are (bad) gimmicks they implemented to be new for the sake of being new.

For Super Paper Mario, the 2D to 3D gimmick is really good...on paper. I feel like it wears out it's welcome by the end, but I think the real issue is just the moment to moment gameplay. I just think it's a really boring, slow platformer in both 2D and 3D with no momentum or flow whatsoever. I like puzzle-platformers alot, don't get me wrong, but the way the puzzles and areas are designed feels much more the first two games than a traditional platformer to it's detriment. If you are going to make a platformer, go all in and not whatever Super is trying to be.

Yup, 100%. It started decently enough, but then it just gets stretched so thin by the end because it was never expanded. 3D barely even matters for the most part or the solution is "use 3D to see something from the side that you will literally miss from a 2D angle".

But it can be pretty obtuse, the bosses are all boring puzzles because of the sticker system, and the stickers drag down the battle system to the point of it being obsolete.

How to play SS the best way possible:
- Run from all battles
- Hoard your powerful stickers
- Find Thing
- Use everything on Boss
- Rinse-repeat for the rest of the game
You know RPGs where people hoard elixirs and stuff and never use them? That's Sticker Star, except every attack or move in the game is an elixir. I will never understand how they did this not once but twice.

It doesn't help I'm just not a fan of the Paper artstyle, especially in Color Splash. The white outlines are ugly.

Seriously, it's awful.

 

[StarLight42]

Damn some of ya'll are acting really negative about Paper Mario here. I feel like I wanna tell you to hush or something but then I read said opinions and I totally agree with them.

I'm sure i'll play Origami Splash and maybe i'll like it if the battling is fine but, I think it's about time I let go of my dream of... not even gonna lie about it, a TTYD re-hash. RIP.

I feel like Paper Mario just isn't really a series that appeals to me anymore, and I have just kind of accepted that.

 

[Griselda]

The paper part of Paper Mario, when it first came out, was just meant to be an art style to help keep power costs low for the system rather than having everything be fully modeled, unless I'm misremembering and it was just meant to be like a story book without any practical reason. As we almost all know, since we're in the Geno thread, it was originally the sequel to SMRPG - so it's essentially set in the same sort of 'Mostly mainline Mario-verse but slightly different' kind of setting. Star Hill even makes a reappearance, although renamed in the English version. The world is made of earth and stone, water is water etc.

The same more or less applies to the sequel, TTYD. The world is still made of real, natural materials, and the characters and items are only flat as an art style choice. Enter the Curses: they are bizarre but ultimately beneficial curses placed upon Mario which allow him to fold and turn and bend in odd and unnatural ways that do not reflect the state of the world around him. When he folds up, there is even a point where it's stated that he has 'become like paper', which points out that it's a transformation taking place, and that he was not already literally made out of paper. And, y'know, they're curses created by demons. They're meant to be out of place and off-putting, though they end up helping you anyway because of spoilery reasons regarding said demons.

As for Super, it does retcon things a bit by taking place in a 2D world where turning to the side to walk is considered just as eldritch as the curses were, but at no point is the world(s) ever referred to as being made of paper, nor are the inhabitants.

Enter SS/CS/TOK : The world and its inhabitants are actually made out of paper/cardboard/craft materials and reference this. Fire is now gently fluttering paper, and living beings now possess a thick white outline and sway slightly to emphasize that they are paper cutouts. Animation has also become limited, as if they are simply switching between two cutouts for movement. In addition to this, and perhaps more importantly: the characters are aware that they are paper. They know that they're literally flat, and they make many references to this fact, despite that in previous games, that was treated as frightening, otherworldly knowledge, much as it would be for someone in the real world to suddenly 'flip into 5D'.

I just wanted to lay that out and explain the differences between the settings without actually insulting or bashing either, in case anyone didn't understand the reasoning behind some people's dislike of the 'Actually Paper Mario' or weren't aware that there was a difference besides gameplay. Personally, I don't like the Actual Paper style, but I feel that we aren't going to leave it any time soon and I do appreciate that TOK seems to try to play up the eldritch side of flipping/folding again. The implication I got from the trailer was that Peach has been 'corrupted' through folding, and you're able to rescue Bowser before his corruption process is complete, hence he seems to retain his mind but is all crunched up. And personally I also wouldn't mind if Geno got some sort of reference in the game, even if not a full appearance. If he's getting into Smash anyway (so we hope) I don't feel it'd be bad for him to show up there, too, even without any Star Road-related justification.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, I know I replied earlier, but I realized this is feeling a lot more off-topic, so I'm going to end my opinions on Paper Mario here. >.<;

 

[StarLight42]

In the end, I think i'll like the game if it has a fine battle system. I liked Super Paper Mario a lot for what it was.

If it doesn't have a good battle system, ooh boy, refund please.

but, it's still unfortunate that Nintendo doesn't seem to acknowledge how Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door was designed

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Not gonna lie, this extremely negative reaction I'm seeing here is what I expected from Arlo. The moment I laid eyes on the thumbnail for the trailer, my first thought was "Uh oh, a certain blue puppet's gonna blow a gasket", because Arlo is an avid Paper Mario fan who has made his displeasure with Sticker Star and Color Splash very clear, and at first glance it looked like the type of Paper Mario game that he was dreading... and then I watched the trailer itself, and I found myself kinda conflicted yet cautiously optimistic... and then Arlo put up his reaction video, and funnily enough, his reaction was more or less similar to mine...

I'm generally of the "wait and see" approach for this game, because right now I don't think we have enough info for anyone to make a firm judgement... but I will say this: the marketing for this game so far is ****ing bizarre.

There's hints that this game is indeed trying to hew closer to Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door, such as the partners following Mario in the overworld and the battle system getting rid of stickers and cards... but the trailer shows off very little of both the partners and battle system. The only hint we have to partners being a thing in battles is a brief clip from the Chinese version of the trailer, and our only substantial showing of the battle system itself is from a 20-second gameplay clip that's completely separate from the trailer. Since the lack of partners and a poorly-built battle system were problems that fans were very vocal about, it would be very easy to drum up hype by showing off these details and how they were addressed... yet they don't show them?

I'm keeping an open mind about this game, and I suggest everyone else do so instead of just angrily jumping the gun... but I have to admit, the marketing so far isn't doing this game any favors.

 

[waterhasataste]

*facepalm*

Well, we got more games added to the SNES and NES NSO Library... Just... not the ones I was hoping for.

I'm going to allow myself to overthink this

This was the week that Mario RPGs anniversary. So the fact we still haven't gotten it for SNES online despite prefect timing for it to resurface is definitely interesting

It ether implies something Mario RPG related is coming down the road, and it'll be used as a cross promotion. Or it's just Nintendo being random with what they select. But I'm going to have fun and imagine it's the former

 

[MisterMike]

Hell yeah salt in the ****ING wound, Nintendo really knows how to make me upset.

To be fair to them, Wild Guns is pretty good **** from what I've seen of it.

Are there any RPGs on NSO right now?

For the NES games there's Zelda 2 and Crystalis, the latter which I've been playing quite a bit recently, and for the SNES games there's ALttP, Breath of Fire 1 and 2.

I know Earthbound is also missing. I'm beginning to think Nintendo would prefer to sell the big RPG experiences directly rather than putting it on a streaming service.

Personally I'm thinking that an Earthbound collection may be coming to the Switch some time soon, what with the "other news" that's supposed to come before the Earthbound book's release which, may I remind you, contains the scripts from all three games.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Food for thought.

 

[Malo Mart]

Just a reminder for people who forgot/to tell people who never played the originals: I don't think there's a *single* paper joke in PM64, and maybe one or two is in TTYD. It was an art style; PM64 was like a popup book, hence the paper, telling a story to the viewer (player). It was charming and adorable. TTYD cranked it up a bit, still keeping the flat aesthetic, but had a new art style. That said, there wasn't any paper jokes outside of the paper moves: Plane, Paper (basically the gimmick for SPM), Tube, and Boat. The really high jump with the ultra boots (forgot what it was called) also squished Mario down (like paper should) to get more jump power, a la SMB2/Doki Doki Panic. That said, other than when characters turned, it never *felt* like paper. Yeah they were flat, but you were never reminded of that all that much.

Sticker Star then comes in with the awful "everything has a white outline" paper aesthetic that we also saw in CS and now in tOK that frankly I hate, but beyond that, everything is suddenly a joke about paper, whether it's getting wet (which ruins paper), folding/creasing paper, blowing paper away with fans/wind, everything is paper, and it's constantly thrown into every joke like after you catch a bug or fish in Animal Crossing (C+ HURRDURR), but in AC where it's just one line for each catchable thing, about 90%+ of the jokes/"humor" is paper-related things. We get it, the game is PAPER Mario, but that doesn't mean we have to be told that every second. What if there was a Final Fantasy game where they used puns/a play on words for "Final" and "Fantasy" every chance they got? What if Mario Party's dialogue was just about partying, maybe getting pizza, doing some drugs, going to the club, etc? It's beyond obnoxious and isn't clever writing when it's a large bulk of it. The trailer for tOK (speaking of which, "ORIGAMI" is in the title) literally opened with a cult of differently-folded paper. It's intended to be what seems to be a serious moment but even Origami Peach can't help herself but drop at least 2 or 3 paper puns and it really just puts an awful taste in my mouth.

I don't even need to get into the gameplay, which I'm sure will also have plenty of paper jokes like SS/CS before it, but just from what I've seen, I'm honestly sick of how forced the paper thing is. Fans of the original just enjoyed the neat art-style since it wasn't really done before, but now it's just "HAHA PAPER IS FUNNY ISN'T IT?!" and it's just really, really annoying.

I think you nailed it right in the head, my dude! It's easy to look at the first few Paper Marios and just go like "oh neat, a Mario game where everything is made of paper" and take it for granted, despite the fact the paper aesthetic was mostly very subtle and only contributed a small part of the games' appeal. What REALLY drove them in were their detailed and engaging narratives, the chapter to chapter progression serving as their own mini-arcs, the almost Zelda-like sense of adventure, the RPG battles with an action-y flair, the loveable characters, in particular your partners, the wondrous and lively locales, all that and more packed with the tried and true Mario charm while still not being afraid to try something different and fresh. Or in other words they were damn good spiritual successors to SMRPG.

Then come the games after Super and they just... don't have any of that. It's a whole 'nother set of creative directions that mostly center around the concept of everything being paper. I hate being a negative nancy over this kind of stuff, it's not like the modern Paper Marios are totally devoid of qualities or anything, but they're just not what I signed up for, you know? :/

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think I agree with everyone feeling negative about how the paper aspect has been treated these days.

Before it was barely brought up and wasn’t a big deal, and Paper Mario was still unique anyway. Now the series seems to focus on it too much, breaking the 4th wall a lot in design and some of the characters themselves. I like 4th wall breaking in some games, but it’s incredibly weird in this series after not doing it at all for three games (save for the overworld moves in TTYD and maybe one battle move I guess? Though technically the overworld stuff was done in a way that didn’t break the 4th wall aside from “press these buttons to do it!”; technically, there was also paper peeling off or falling off to reveal something when you did something to cause it, but that was it). I like the new art style, and the puns, and stuff, but I don’t get why we can’t have another game that fits the first three...

But, I haven’t played CS, and got bored early on in SS when I played it years ago, so I’m judging based off what people say and what I’ve seen. I liked what I saw of TOK today (I am worried about how partners may be handled though), and I am excited for it, so maybe I’ll like it, but it still feels weird since it’s clear paper is still the driving point behind most things it seems while the first three games didn’t care...I mean, I like it all on its own, and definitely would if the series started that way, but since it didn’t, then well, y’know...

 

[Enigma735]

To get back on topic with Geno and Super Mario RPG, I really do think we will get Super Mario RPG on the SNES Online. This is one of the more flagship games of the SNES and the fact that it hasn't come to the service yet is mind-boggling. I do think it will come eventually, and I even think they could be holding back on it for a reason, most likely to tie in to Geno's Smash reveal. I wouldn't worry about the possibility of no SMRPG, as I fully expect the game to come eventually, and it could potentially be in favor of Geno's chances in Smash.

 

[Sigran101]

I don't want to be repetitive, but I completely agree on the paper aesthetic. It feels like it's not a real RPG anymore. Like the primary thing isn't "It's Mario but an RPG" anymore, it's "It's Mario but everything is paper". It sucks the focus away from all other aspects of the game. You liked the stories in the original? Well now it's a story about paper! The paper lost its color, the paper got folded, yada yada. The story is all about paper now. You liked the unique worlds they set up? Well now the world's are all about paper! Water is paper, fire is paper, trees are paper, grass is paper! The environments are all about paper now. You liked the dialogue? Well now even the dialogue is all about paper! Paper puns and paper texture jokes. You liked the puzzles? Because yes, now even the puzzles are all about paper. Cut the paper to make a path, blow the paper away. It's all paper all the time. Nothing else exists. It's 100% about paper now and nothing else, to the point that it just feels like a game about paper, not about Mario, let alone an RPG.

 

[Griselda]

I'm starting to wonder if the lack of SMRPG actually means anything for Geno, one way or another. Sure, it makes sense to us because we're both expecting Geno and think that it'd be a good cross-promotion in a 'Get switch online and see where Geno came from' sort of way, but would Nintendo actually have that sort of mindset? Like, have they done anything like that, before? I don't recall.

 

[Sigran101]

I'm starting to wonder if the lack of SMRPG actually means anything for Geno, one way or another. Sure, it makes sense to us because we're both expecting Geno and think that it'd be a good cross-promotion in a 'Get switch online and see where Geno came from' sort of way, but would Nintendo actually have that sort of mindset? Like, have they done anything like that, before? I don't recall.

I don't think it means anything. How many times has Nintendo acknowledged SMRPG over the years? Realistically it getting added was only even semi likely if Geno is in anyway, so you can't really use it as evidence. I think it would have been stronger evidence for Geno if we did get it today because it would prove the game is on Nintendo's radar and give Geno something to promote. On the other hand, getting nothing could mean they're holding it back, but it could just as easily mean Nintendo is just not bothering with it like most of the past 2 decades.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think it means anything. How many times has Nintendo acknowledged SMRPG over the years? Realistically it getting added was only even semi likely if Geno is in anyway, so you can't really use it as evidence. I think it would have been stronger evidence for Geno if we did get it today because it would prove the game is on Nintendo's radar and give Geno something to promote. On the other hand, getting nothing could mean they're holding it back, but it could just as easily mean Nintendo is just not bothering with it like most of the past 2 decades.

I don’t see any reason why Nintendo wouldn’t bother. They added the game to virtual console Wii and Wii U alongside SNES classic.

 

[Sigran101]

I don’t see any reason why Nintendo wouldn’t bother. They added the game to virtual console Wii and Wii U alongside SNES classic.

There were a crazy amount of SNES games on those, and very few of them are in the service. Why do you think SMRPG would get special treatment when we don't even have Super Metroid or A Link to the Past yet?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don’t see any reason why Nintendo wouldn’t bother. They added the game to virtual console Wii and Wii U alongside SNES classic.

Keep in mind licensing it and agreeing to put it on any re-release is its own thing. The fact it's not on Switch yet is just that SE and Nintendo haven't gotten through all the legal work or have chosen not to re-release it. Basically, it was added to the SNES Mini. This doesn't mean it's gone through all the licensing factors to release on the Switch too.

Every re-release is its own product, essentially. Companies can't have the licensing to publish a game "forever". You need to bring up the legal stuff separately and make agreements. When you remember that it has actual Final Fantasy music in it(Culex), that means they need to actually pay the owner of that music. So it's not even between SE and Nintendo to make a deal. There's more people involved with licensing, so they practically have to do license each release separately.

The more parties involved, the more complicated it gets. That's why you don't see Dragon Quest 1 being immediately re-released on every new console that comes up.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Why do you think SMRPG would get special treatment when we don't even have Super Metroid or A Link to the Past yet?

Actually we have both of those

 

[Deleted member]

There were a crazy amount of SNES games on those, and very few of them are in the service. Why do you think SMRPG would get special treatment when we don't even have Super Metroid or A Link to the Past yet?

You do know we got these two games available since like September right?

 

[Sigran101]

Actually we have both of those

You do know we got these two games available since like September right?

Wait really? I totally missed those! Awesome! I gotta get playing!

 

[TriggerX]

To get back on topic with Geno and Super Mario RPG, I really do think we will get Super Mario RPG on the SNES Online. This is one of the more flagship games of the SNES and the fact that it hasn't come to the service yet is mind-boggling. I do think it will come eventually, and I even think they could be holding back on it for a reason, most likely to tie in to Geno's Smash reveal. I wouldn't worry about the possibility of no SMRPG, as I fully expect the game to come eventually, and it could potentially be in favor of Geno's chances in Smash.

Might have more to do with the classic SNES to be honest. Wouldn’t make much sense to have all those games available for both Switch service and classic console. I haven’t looked into both the lists, but I would assume maybe 3-4 games are shared between the 2 platforms, most of the other titles are probably exclusive to that console release.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Might have more to do with the classic SNES to be honest. Wouldn’t make much sense to have all those games available for both Switch service and classic console. I haven’t looked into both the lists, but I would assume maybe 3-4 games are shared between the 2 platforms, most of the other titles are probably exclusive to that console release.

Of the 21 games on the classic console, only 9 haven't been added to NSO yet. We're missing:

2 Nintendo: DKC, Earthbound
2 Capcom: Street Fighter 2, Mega Man X
2 Konami: Castlevania 4, Contra 3
3 Square: SMRPG, FF 3, Secret of Mana

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Wait really? I totally missed those! Awesome! I gotta get playing!

I was about to say, I was pretty sure Super Metroid was on Switch because if it wasn't, I have no idea wtf I was playing the other day then.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Might have more to do with the classic SNES to be honest. Wouldn’t make much sense to have all those games available for both Switch service and classic console. I haven’t looked into both the lists, but I would assume maybe 3-4 games are shared between the 2 platforms, most of the other titles are probably exclusive to that console release.

That could explain why the SNES Classic and Nintendo Switch Online SNES app have such different game libraries, probably to push people into buying the SNES Classic if they want all the (in my opinion) good SNES games.

Kinda makes you wish Nintendo would make the dang things more accessible though. The price tag and the low availability makes getting these things an absolute nightmare. It's one of the big reasons why it's so hard to get some of my friends to play games like SMRPG or Earthbound nowadays. It's really hard to get a hold of the games legally, and since my friends don't own their older Nintendo consoles anymore, their last legal option is the SNES Classic and those are, like I said before, a pain in the butt to get.

Oh hey, unrelated note, but new Paper Mario, neat. I was always more of a SMRPG and Mario & Luigi kinda guy, so my expectations for this game were basically nonexistent going in, but I'm at least glad to see that there is at least one Mario RPG still around.
Now whether or not it's gonna be good remains to be seen. I've got cautious optimism going in, but from what you guys have said, the game isn't looking too hot.

 

[axel_]

How many times has Nintendo acknowledged SMRPG over the years?

Spoiler: Quite a bit, actually.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[pinshadow]

Of the 21 games on the classic console, only 9 haven't been added to NSO yet. We're missing:

2 Nintendo: DKC, Earthbound
2 Capcom: Street Fighter 2, Mega Man X
2 Konami: Castlevania 4, Contra 3
3 Square: SMRPG, FF 3, Secret of Mana

It's very important to note that Street Fighter 2, Mega Man X, Super Castlevania 4, Contra 3, and Secret of Mana are all on Switch already in other collections. Obviously there are other games on NES/SNES Online that have other versions on the Eshop such as Puyo Puyo 2 and Wild Guns, and even a few that just double dip like Kunio/Double Dragon, but given that there are other Capcom and Konami games on the service but not any of their most iconic franchises, it's pretty obvious why they're excluded. Square has none of their stuff on the platform at all but given a very similar situation happened on the Wii U virtual console, where all the Square games only came out in Japan, and we still ended up getting Mario RPG, makes me think Nintendo has enough power over the distribution to get it on there.

 

[Lagguino]

Of the 21 games on the classic console, only 9 haven't been added to NSO yet. We're missing:

2 Nintendo: DKC, Earthbound
2 Capcom: Street Fighter 2, Mega Man X
2 Konami: Castlevania 4, Contra 3
3 Square: SMRPG, FF 3, Secret of Mana

One thing I'd like to point out is that some of those games are featured in collections. Because...ahem..

Street Fighter 30th anniversary collection
Mega Man X legacy collection
Castlevania anniversary collection
Contra anniversary collection
And Lastly, Collection of Mana

Which leaves us with DKC, Earthbound (or Mother 2), FF 3 and last and certainly not least SMRPG

 

[pinshadow]

Decided to check something

Just like Sticker Star and Color Splash, they aren't even classifying it as a role-playing game. (For the record, all the Mario and Luigi's, Paper Mario 64, and SMRPG all are by Nintendo) I'm legitimately confused why people are calling this a return to form all over the place. It so obviously just...isn't? Just looking at the cover it's so obviously trying to be like the last two, complete with another companion meant to go with the games main paper gimmick. Am I biased as all hell here? Yea, alright fine. The moment I saw just the title "The Origami King" my heart fell through the floor.

I'll admit it looks a lot better than either of the last two games, But it also feels weirdly...forced? Restrained? I don't quite know how to put it into a word. It's as if they saw all the criticism the last two games got, saw that people really wanted a return to style of the first two games, but they REALLY didn't want to do that so they just decided to make something else and kinda sorta give people what they want?

• Ok, here's what looks to be a more epic story... still mainly focused around Paper.
• People really want partners back... but they seem to be tied to certain chapters, don't have unique designs, and might not even fight in battles?
• Let's do more towns and unique locations... but only populate them with generic mooks again.
• A more traditional battle system... that still looks somewhat gimmicky and not really like the first two games. (I don't hate how it looks so far, but how it actually plays in practice is another question. HP is the only stat? There seems to be this thing where you buy more time with coins? He has like 1000 coins in the early game battle they show? The audience seems to be back but it's all toads? Boss Battles with this turn thing? Hmmmmmmmmmm)
• A unique and interesting villain... who's entire army is just made up of origami versions of normal enemies

I like some of what I'm seeing. Teaming up with Bowser is always neat. There's a fully explorable world map it seems. The battle system could be fun. But christ, the fact they aren't even refering to it as a role-playing game gives me such a bad vibe. And what is the deal with them just outright refusing to give anyone but Toads original designs? Is it mandated they just can't anymore? Can't they atleast use all the cool new races from Odyssey?

 

[edumolon11]

Decided to check something

View attachment 271817

Just like Sticker Star and Color Splash, they aren't even classifying it as a role-playing game. (For the record, all the Mario and Luigi's, Paper Mario 64, and SMRPG all are by Nintendo) I'm legitimately confused why people are calling this a return to form all over the place. It so obviously just...isn't? Just looking at the cover it's so obviously trying to be like the last two, complete with another companion meant to go with the games main paper gimmick. Am I biased as all hell here? Yea, alright fine. The moment I saw just the title "The Origami King" my heart fell through the floor.

I'll admit it looks a lot better than either of the last two games, But it also feels weirdly...forced? Restrained? I don't quite know how to put it into a word. It's as if they saw all the criticism the last two games got, saw that people really wanted a return to style of the first two games, but they REALLY didn't want to do that so they just decided to make something else and kinda sorta give people what they want?

• Ok, here's what looks to be a more epic story... still mainly focused around Paper.
• People really want partners back... but they seem to be tied to certain chapters, don't have unique designs, and might not even fight in battles?
• Let's do more towns and unique locations... but only populate them with generic mooks again.
• A more traditional battle system... that still looks somewhat gimmicky and not really like the first two games. (I don't hate how it looks so far, but how it actually plays in practice is another question. HP is the only stat? There seems to be this thing where you buy more time with coins? He has like 1000 coins in the early game battle they show? The audience seems to be back but it's all toads? Boss Battles with this turn thing? Hmmmmmmmmmm)
• A unique and interesting villain... who's entire army is just made up of origami versions of normal enemies

I like some of what I'm seeing. Teaming up with Bowser is always neat. There's a fully explorable world map it seems. The battle system could be fun. But christ, the fact they aren't even refering to it as a role-playing game gives me such a bad vibe. And what is the deal with them just outright refusing to give anyone but Toads original designs? Is it mandated they just can't anymore? Can't they atleast use all the cool new races from Odyssey?

In Europe, PMOK is tagged as RPG

 

[pinshadow]

In Europe, PMOK is tagged as RPG

Where exactly? All the European Nintendo sites I checked list it as Action Adventure.

 

[Loliko YnT]

I don't actually have a problem with that. It's that when that's the only collectible that I take issue with it. The HP-Up Hearts in SS would be fine as an added incentive for exploring/doing difficult puzzles (in the same way Badges were in 64/TTYD) if you still had the Star Points level-up system (and gameplay) of 64/TTYD.

I also don't get why we have to have so much HP. We started with *TEN* in the first two games, and now the low-numbers format has been thrown out the window for where double (and even triple) digits are the norm. I liked that PM was the lowest-HP/damage RPG in existence.

I completely agree with you. Bigger is never always better when it come to RPGs. I always hate it in RPGs where bosses are pretty much a sandbag with a bajillion HPs.
Paper Mario smaller numbers help you better grasp what they mean. It's easier to plan a strategy when your opponent has like 20 HPs , 1 defense , 4 attack , and your base attack is 3. Each turn you would do 2 damage with Mario , and 2 damage with your partner. But then you can use badges to developp a strategy ; Using the boost badge to boost yourself several times , and maybe you could use one of your partner abilities to protect yourself , like Kooper's shell ! Or maybe you decide to equip zap tap so , instead of the boss doing their 3 attack combo , he can only do one attack ! Or maybe you equip a badge to maximise your FPs so you can be super aggresive ! That's why this battle system is amazing , it's super easy to understand , but has a ton of depth !

---

To be honest , the mere fact that the trailer barely has 5 SECONDS OF ACTUAL COMBAT is to me , a huge problem. Like , yeah , "wait and see" but the goal of a trailer is to sell you on the game by showing what the game is all about ! But look at where we are now , people have to dig into the chinese trailer for a 2 seconds clip that COULD suggest partners being in battle , and the best we got for combat is a 20 SECONDS CLIP of Mario rotating an arena and jumping on a line of 4 goombas.
Like , they did it super well with games like Dream Team ! :

The trailer show you everything you need to know about it !
New world ? Check.
The usual overworld exploring with mario and luigi and their unique abilities ? Check.
New characters for this new world ? Check.
The dream gimmick of Luigi being explained fully ? Check.
Showcasing combat both in the real and dream world ? Check.
Banger music by Yoko Shimomura ? Check.

So why can't they do it right with Paper Mario ? Is it really that hard ? It's not like the game is in early development , it release in 2 months !
Heck , Bugs Fable did it right !

And I'm not saying this to say that the new PM is garbage or anything... It's just this trailer show me what I'm getting into ! And that's all I ask from a trailer !
So to be honest , PM TOK did the worst possible thing : Leaving me complety confused , not knowing who to listen.

 

[edumolon11]

Where exactly? All the European Nintendo sites I checked list it as Action Adventure.

Mmm, yesterday was. Now its Action Adventure. My apologies jajajaj