Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[SSGuy]

From the perspective of someone who has not played a Paper Mario game, but has experienced them through other means, I am cautiously optimistic about Origami King. It's certainly not a return to form, but it is seemingly taking steps towards being more in line with Paper Mario games pre-Sticker Star.

I think Paper Mario 64 is phenomenal. I would at least give that one a try. It isn't too in your face about the paper thing like the other games and it has a really cute pop up book aesthetic. The visual is just a charming set piece and nothing else which is honestly why I think I like that one the best.

Geno not being in the newest RPG is not the end of the world. Because I think the only way Geno makes it back to a new game is thru a Square developing a new Mario RPG with Nintendo. That may not happen but it is something I hope will come to be. Smash Bros seems like the only possible route to ever see Geno again which explains why most of us have hung on for so long. It speaks volumes for the character if I am being honest about it.

 

[Polarthief]

View attachment 271759
This bit from Super Paper Mario is just as relevant now as it was back then.

Honestly, I hate that argument that you have to play a game to know if you'll like it or not. You can just as easily watch a game and know a vast majority of the time if you're going to like it. I don't need to play CS to know I'll hate it when I've already tried SS and hated it.

 

[QQS]

PAPER MARIO: The Origame King & The Return of the Star Warrior.

(Credits to the Geno figure-sprite to YoshiDino123 on Deviant Art).

Im pretty confident in GENO joining the battle in Smash very SOON. Plus, Super Mario RPG to the NSO + maybe Geno revival in this new Paper Mario.

I’m done and paid with just Geno as one of our next DLC, though. Pretty sure it’s happening!

 

[TheCJBrine]

After seeing some stuff, I’m more confident in Origami King. While the titular villain himself seems to have “made of paper”/spreading paper chaos as his main driving characteristic (I don’t dislike it but it is kinda weird after beating SPM and playing through nearly the end of TTYD ngl), we at least appear to have partners back, the battle system is cool and relies on basic attack commands + special stuff and support from partners instead of stickers/cards that have a redundant limited supply, and there are some OC Toads instead of all the Toads just stealing the main Toad’s look (though I guess it’s mainly different colored Toads in outfits and no different hair or faces or whatever as well but meh) and some OC characters I guess (idk maybe it’s just the origami dudes).

Also, the partner Bob-omb looks generic, but he’s missing his fuse for some reason, which I found interesting.

I do kinda wish we got another Paper Mario game with the original cartoony paper aesthetic though, but I like the real-ish paper style as well...

Maybe I’ll try Bug Fables. It looks good too, but still, it ain’t Mario.

 

[Organization XIII]

*shrug* I'll wait to see another trailer to know for sure, but overall this game just looks awful. The fact that FP and BP are gone means battles are still pointless, so yet again you have the main mechanic of the game being not rewarding, except in the coin department because there are screenshots showing you having 13k coins.

So even if you do away with stickers/cards, this still looks to be the same game.

To be fair that's extremely pessimistic. They've already addressed the biggest complaints of the CS and SS game by removing stickers and adding back partner. We know there will be more abilities and attacks than just standard hammer and standard jump so those have to be handled somehow. It's entirely possible that leveling up gets us new abilities. Or maybe the stronger abilities are purchased giving random battles and money a purpose that is actually useful instead of a waste of time. Either way, while it was shown poorly right now the have shown to be fixing what has been asked for by fans so there are reasons to be optimistic at least at this point.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

To be fair that's extremely pessimistic. They've already addressed the biggest complaints of the CS and SS game by removing stickers and adding back partner. We know there will be more abilities and attacks than just standard hammer and standard jump so those have to be handled somehow. It's entirely possible that leveling up gets us new abilities. Or maybe the stronger abilities are purchased giving random battles and money a purpose that is actually useful instead of a waste of time. Either way, while it was shown poorly right now the have shown to be fixing what has been asked for by fans so there are reasons to be optimistic at least at this point.

Here's another screenshot, this time showing that partners will have at least some sort of presence in battle...

... which was only shown in the Chinese trailer. The ****'s up with Nintendo's marketing department?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm REALLY excited for this Paper Mario Game.
I imagine that it put a slight damper in the room, I have not read to catch up.
However, I'd like to suggest the idea that maybe Geno will actually be making a return in this new game!

Wouldn't that actually be the best victory for him and all fans?

I do think this leads to a likelihood of Paper Mario in Smash bros.
And I stand by thinking that Geno is likely an upgraded Mii costume.

But what if they also represent a new serires, with an icon of the star?

 

[Polarthief]

To be fair that's extremely pessimistic. They've already addressed the biggest complaints of the CS and SS game by removing stickers and adding back partner. We know there will be more abilities and attacks than just standard hammer and standard jump so those have to be handled somehow. It's entirely possible that leveling up gets us new abilities. Or maybe the stronger abilities are purchased giving random battles and money a purpose that is actually useful instead of a waste of time. Either way, while it was shown poorly right now the have shown to be fixing what has been asked for by fans so there are reasons to be optimistic at least at this point.

Optimism did nothing but ruin my day today and give me extreme disappointment, shattering my hopes for one of my favorite franchises. Of course I'm going to be pessimistic.

Battles are already worse with the removal of FP/Badges and nothing will convince me otherwise. Even past that, you still have the awful modern paper aesthetic and paper puns and jokes everywhere that just ruin the game for me even further. I'm more than allowed to be upset about this reveal today.

PS: Being optimistic after this reveal, despite being burned twice by SS/CS? By all means, go ahead and get burned once more.

Here's another screenshot, this time showing that partners will have at least some sort of presence in battle...

What presence is that though? Looking angerly at the enemies? Having one generic move or "support" function as was translated?

Also what's up with the CLOCK IN AN RPG GAME???

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Wouldn't that actually be the best victory for him and all fans?

You think our ultimate victory is Geno coming back in a mediocre-looking Paper Mario game?

What an incredibly out of touch assumption

 

[Polarthief]

You think our ultimate victory is Geno coming back in a mediocre-looking Paper Mario game?

What an incredibly out of touch assumption

Just ignore the troll.

 

[Organization XIII]

Here's another screenshot, this time showing that partners will have at least some sort of presence in battle...

... which was only shown in the Chinese trailer. The ****'s up with Nintendo's marketing department?

Dude, that was the screenshot I was talking about but it came from the Chinese trailer? God lord they are trying to show this off as poorly as possible. I don't understand why they are spreading out the information that would make people to want the game across regions instead of making it easy to understand for the consumers.

Optimism did nothing but ruin my day today and give me extreme disappointment, shattering my hopes for one of my favorite franchises. Of course I'm going to be pessimistic.

Battles are already worse with the removal of FP/Badges and nothing will convince me otherwise. Even past that, you still have the awful modern paper aesthetic and paper puns and jokes everywhere that just ruin the game for me even further. I'm more than allowed to be upset about this reveal today.

PS: Being optimistic after this reveal, despite being burned twice by SS/CS? By all means, go ahead and get burned once more.



What presence is that though? Looking angerly at the enemies? Having one generic move or "support" function as was translated?

Also what's up with the CLOCK IN AN RPG GAME???

But this reveal showed they are correcting the mistakes from SS and CS so that's already reason enough to be optimistic. They gave me what I asked for. Partners returning and that stupid item system going the hell away. Besides the art style and humor were literally the single best parts of CS. Made the game somewhat enjoyable instead of an actual piece of garbage, unlike Sticker Star (well depending on how much you could overlook CS's gameplay dragging it down. They fixed battles being pointless in that game but it still wasn't fun since it is such a flawed system). I get it isn't just a carbon copy of TTYD but they've brought back so many elements already while trying to put their own spin on it. Part of what made Paper Mario great in the first place was taking the tried and true turn based battle of RPGs and making its own thing. I know gameplay-wise Paper Mario has sucked due to the change in director after Super but they are finally listening to fans and right now that a good thing. I mean for christ's sake they even listened to people complaining that they didn't want Bowser to be the main villain anymore so he gets taken out and folded up. This game isn't TTYD2 so far but thankfully it isn't CS2 either and so I'm excited.

 

[Polarthief]

But this reveal showed they are correcting the mistakes from SS and CS so that's already reason enough to be optimistic.

Oh hi there Super Mario Party.

Besides the art style and humor were literally the single best parts of CS. Made the game somewhat enjoyable instead of an actual piece of garbage, unlike Sticker Star (well depending on how much you could overlook CS's gameplay dragging it down.

Gonna agree to disagree here. I really, *really* hate the forced in-your-face paper aesthetic and jokes. You can over-break the fourth wall and SS/CS do that to an extreme degree and it comes across as obnoxious.

I get it isn't just a carbon copy of TTYD but they've brought back so many elements already while trying to put their own spin on it. Part of what made Paper Mario great in the first place was taking the tried and true turn based battle of RPGs and making its own thing. I know gameplay-wise Paper Mario has sucked due to the change in director after Super but they are finally listening to fans and right now that a good thing. I mean for christ's sake they even listened to people complaining that they didn't want Bowser to be the main villain anymore so he gets taken out and folded up. This game isn't TTYD2 so far but thankfully it isn't CS2 either and so I'm excited.

Okay but battles from the small bit I've seen so far don't look fun or overly strategic (again, from what I've seen). They also slapped a clock on it to now make you hurry? How are they going to be rewarding? There's no "mana" system of any kind, so how do you limit overpowered moves without making them consumables or "once per battle" style limitations? The gameplay I've seen so far has done nothing but convince me they just want to go with new gimmicks for the sake of going with new gimmicks. It's okay if it's not a carbon-copy of TTYD, but why do they have to seemingly strip the enjoyable parts and add new gimmicks on top of that?

I have no faith in Paper Mario anymore. I'll gladly wait to see the actual game and then take a bigger crap on it when it comes out, or just hold the crap but still not enjoy it, but from what I've seen, I already know this game isn't worth $60 to me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You think our ultimate victory is Geno coming back in a mediocre-looking Paper Mario game?

What an incredibly out of touch assumption

Yeah, I think any character coming back in their home franchise is a about as big of a goal as an old character can have.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Yeah, I think any character coming back in their home franchise is a about as big of a goal as an old character can have.

Except for the double digit amount of old characters who got added to Smash with no warning right?

Try and read Trolling for Dummies

 

[Nicnac]

I'm REALLY excited for this Paper Mario Game.
I imagine that it put a slight damper in the room, I have not read to catch up.
However, I'd like to suggest the idea that maybe Geno will actually be making a return in this new game!

Wouldn't that actually be the best victory for him and all fans?

I do think this leads to a likelihood of Paper Mario in Smash bros.
And I stand by thinking that Geno is likely an upgraded Mii costume.

But what if they also represent a new serires, with an icon of the star?

lol nice bait

 

[StarLight42]

Pupnapoleon with the kindergarten level trolls

 

[Organization XIII]

Oh hi there Super Mario Party.



Gonna agree to disagree here. I really, *really* hate the forced in-your-face paper aesthetic and jokes. You can over-break the fourth wall and SS/CS do that to an extreme degree and it comes across as obnoxious.



Okay but battles from the small bit I've seen so far don't look fun or overly strategic (again, from what I've seen). They also slapped a clock on it to now make you hurry? How are they going to be rewarding? There's no "mana" system of any kind, so how do you limit overpowered moves without making them consumables or "once per battle" style limitations? The gameplay I've seen so far has done nothing but convince me they just want to go with new gimmicks for the sake of going with new gimmicks. It's okay if it's not a carbon-copy of TTYD, but why do they have to seemingly strip the enjoyable parts and add new gimmicks on top of that?

I have no faith in Paper Mario anymore. I'll gladly wait to see the actual game and then take a bigger crap on it when it comes out, or just hold the crap but still not enjoy it, but from what I've seen, I already know this game isn't worth $60 to me.

Nah man CS is actually genuinely funny. The overall plot is actually worthless but the individual levels were pretty enjoyable with plenty of different types of humor. SS just sucked in every way. It was soulless and no fun and unfunny. In Color Splash though they really laid on the charm. The one thing if anything people praise Color Splash for was the writing.
As for the battles from what little we do have to go on what we know is you get bonuses for lining up the enemies but also they have states where they have that Japanese anger symbol you see in anime likely implying that they'll counter-attack or there will consequence for just attacking and stacking. That's already 10000000% more strategy than anything in CS or SS. As for the abilities I can't say. Expendable abilities wouldn't be god awful now that you can just attack normally and as now you aren't actually punished for fighting and then you can use those coins to get stronger attacks and save them for something else instead of having to balance having enough standard stuff. My god, the battle system of SS was not thought out. Here though they do something that changes battles instead of disurpts the desire to do them so far as we have seen.
Can't say I know whether the additions to the battle system will be good or not yet but I can say they listed this game as an RPG instead of just an adventure title so they at least seem to be moving far more in the right direction than anything else.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm REALLY excited for this Paper Mario Game.
I imagine that it put a slight damper in the room, I have not read to catch up.
However, I'd like to suggest the idea that maybe Geno will actually be making a return in this new game!

This would be cool honestly as well. Seeing as how Paper Mario was SMRPG2, it'd be a great call back to Paper Mario's origins overall. That, and he'd be fully used again.

Wouldn't that actually be the best victory for him and all fans?

It's pretty clear that people prefer him playable in Smash as the best victory. Best to not re-ask this question. You have a straight answer nowadays, heh.

But what if they also represent a new serires, with an icon of the star?

Geno is already represented through the Mushroom symbol. They've chosen his series now. But it makes sense. Super Mario RPG doesn't stand out in the same way as being from an entirely different Mario universe. The artstyle, yes, but you still have the Mario aesthetics and enemies, along with new ones. Ironically Paper Mario is its own universe as Paper Jam confirms it being from a Paper Book(which fits, with the Chapter stuff, what they did in TTYD, focusing on the Paper aspect and how much they're very different as is, etc). Even then, Paper Mario isn't treated as its own thing. Nor is Luigi's Mansion, sadly. And that's a full-out spin-off, more unique than the Yoshi games are too.

 

[Firox]

Firox, are you seriously, again, comparing sales of a game in an age where marketing is easier than ever, gaming is mainstream, and the Internet exists in your pocket to games from the days when the Internet was still not as convenient and gaming was still "just for nerds"? Please stop comparing anything pre-Wii to post-Wii. You're not even looking at console sales either.

Here's a healthy reminder about the INSTALL-BASE of each Paper Mario game:
- N64 Console Sales (PM64 Game Sales): 32.93M (1.37M); ~4.16% of N64 owners also purchased Paper Mario 64
- GC (TTYD): 21.74M (2.25M): ~10.35%
- Wii (SPM): 101.63M (4.23M): ~4.16%
- 3DS (SS): 75.77M (2.43M): ~3.21%
- Wii U (CS): 13.56M (0.186M): ~1.37%
(console-sales numbers taken directly from Wikipedia, PM game sales taken from your link)

For TTYD to undersell SS by about 180k people when its installbase isn't even a THIRD of 3DS means that TTYD was a significantly better success. SPM also didn't even double that of TTYD despite having nearly 5x the install-base. Adjusted for the console sales, and the fact that you can see stuff on the Internet instead of having to physically see ads, SS was a colossal failure comparatively, and TTYD was an absolute smash success. No other PM game was remotely as successful as TTYD; 64 and SPM are essentially tied together, SS did worse, and CS significantly worse than that.

It's incredibly short-sighted to look at sales of a game and not bother to see what % of your install-base also bought it, in addition to what era of Internet was available at the time.

Polarthief, are you seriously, again, completely missing the point? I wasn't mentioning sales as a means of claiming that Sticker Star was great by any means. I was pointing out the fact that if you ignore all other factors BESIDES sales, then at face value, SS looked financially good. If anything, your long-winded critique only proved my point that Nintendo's mentality of only looking at sales out of context is an incorrect measure of a game/franchise's success. Just look at SMRPG. It wasn't exactly a juggernaut of sales itself, yet pretty much everyone here can attest to what a great game it was. Duh, sales out of context means little. That's what I was trying to say in the first place. My point is that Nintendo was likely going with a PM format more akin to SPM and SS because those were the games that not only seemed the most lucrative by sheer sales but were also more recent and so Origami King has likely retained many of the same developers/planners that worked on those titles. Geez, take a breath and try not to condescend too hard on people when you didn't even catch the gist of the comment.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

View attachment 271759
This bit from Super Paper Mario is just as relevant now as it was back then.

This line was way ahead of its time

 

[ActualGarbage]

I don't give a single ounce of anything about Paper Mario, but I mean hey, Paper Mario: The Origarmi Killer is looking pretty folded. I'll look at it. I don't know if I'll get it but I'll definitely look at it.
Also it comes out in two months like damn Nintendo, might as well just release the game already.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

My opinion may be invalid as ****, because I've only ever played Super Paper Mario, but the game looks pretty good as it's own thing to me.

 

[MattX20]

To get back on track with Geno, we've got only 4 weeks left if we assume the Smash Direct happens on the 11th to see if the rumors pan out

 

[StarLight42]

I’m mixed.

Sometimes I see stuff I like, other times I see Color Splash 2.

If the battling is good i’m sure i’ll like it like I did with Super Paper Mario, but it’s not going to be the next TTYD and at this point i’ve just accepted that.

 

[Enigma735]

Now that we officially know that a new Paper Mario game is coming, I can't help but think this could boost Geno's chances of happening, pun intended. It makes so much since for Sakurai to promote the new PM game while also including a character from the Mario RPG that started it all, and one that is highly requested. I just think it makes so much sense and the timing is perfect. I will be shocked if Geno isn't at least Challenger Pack 7 or 8 honestly.

 

[Polarthief]

Nah man CS is actually genuinely funny.

I saw *some* of the writing and it looked funny, but the overuse of paper jokes got obnoxious very fast.

As for the rest of your post, it really just comes down to "no badges, no fun" for me. Badges are what made me love exploring and strategizing in PM. Without them, the game isn't as fun. It's part of why I don't like M&L as much as it, and SMRPG has that nostalgia factor for me, even though I know PM is a better game.

I was pointing out the fact that if you ignore all other factors BESIDES sales, then at face value, SS looked financially good. If anything, your long-winded critique only proved my point that Nintendo's mentality of only looking at sales out of context is an incorrect measure of a game/franchise's success.

Yet Color Splash was a disaster by ALL accounts and according to raw sales numbers, SPM was a raving success, so why are we straying from SPM, the game that was "clearly" the "best game by raw sales numbers" and continuing with the SS/CS formula??? Sorry man, that makes absolutely no sense. CS is virtually SS2 (and is a BETTER* GAME than SS), yet it did about 3-4x worse than it when justified for install-base, and about 20x worse when not.

* better when you're comparing rotten garbage to fresh garbage with Febreeze on it. Both are still garbage but CS is still a generally better game.

Now that we officially know that a new Paper Mario game is coming, I can't help but think this could boost Geno's chances of happening, pun intended. It makes so much since for Sakurai to promote the new PM game while also including a character from the Mario RPG that started it all, and one that is highly requested. I just think it makes so much sense and the timing is perfect. I will be shocked if Geno isn't at least Challenger Pack 7 or 8 honestly.

True, though man it makes me so worried they'll (Nintendo) do something incredibly stupid and put in Paper Mario, but based on the new Sticker Star 1-3 system. Not only would my #3 pick be royally tainted, but I also wouldn't get my #1 pick. Nintendo does dumb Nintendo moves all the time like making Sticker Star, Sticker Star 2, and now Sticker Star 3. I could see them doing this as well.

Though this is just my pessimism coming in because of how dreadful tOK looks to me.

 

[MrJudd]

I don't get why thrash the combat with the information we know so far, we need to know more to say anything:

1. We've only seen the combat menu for a very early fight in the game: Mario only had 2 actions (Hammer and Jump), with space for three more actions (and it could also scroll like items probably will). While we saw that image in the desert of the Shiny Boots, it didn't show what Mario could use at that time (and there's also the Toad Explorer there).
2. We don't see the enemies' HP anywhere in the footage, but we see damage numbers: so it's either an ability or another type of visual cue (Color Splash was paint).
3. Items are probably working like 64 did, but we don't know how powerful attack items are and how much items cost in this game (which could be just a case of inflation on the entire Mushroom Kingdom).
4. Jump and Hammer may be more distinct, with Jump being able to hit all enemies, but can't deal with spikes, while Hammer only hits the one in the front (maybe with a splash effect), but can't hit flying foes.
5. Equipment is one of the biggest mysteries right now because it could be a more RPG styled equipment system or they're bringing back the hammer / jump upgrade system: The shiny boots in the trailer makes me think it's the equivalent of Super Jump, but it could be a normal equipment or an ability. No way to find out yet. If it's more traditional, we don't know how much they cost.
6. Likewise, we don't know about something similar to traditional EXP. I don't think it's there, but it could appear only after the battle, then disappearing.
7. (Crucial Point) How progression works in full: based on the Trailer, we know that you can improve your HP and the boots, but we do not know how. Based on the pipe shot, it looks like there's 5 of the McGuffins, with the "6" pipe being for the final area. We also don't know how exploration fully works and what you can use in the overworld (aside from Hammer, Jump and ARMS) and how you go from location to location (map based + vehicles or 64 exploration with vehicles as fast travel). No idea on how this will pan out.
8. The Puzzle System could be a game changer to strategy, especially how they are giving a limited amount of moves to turn, although I don't like the "Buy Time" option.
9. Summons are an unknown at this point, since Things are gone in this game (AFAIK) and we don't know about our McGuffin yet.
10. How Partners work in this game: we know that they are in the overworld and in battle and that's it. I don't expect them to be too different from what they were in 64, but it's a mystery at this point.

TL:DR; Just because it isn't the combat of TTYD/64, it doesn't mean it's SS/CS, is it's own thing, just like SPM is it's own thing. It has the potential to be the best one, even if it isn't the same.

As for Geno, I don't think this Paper Mario game releasing now is the defining factor for him in Smash, just an extra small push given he's from Mario RPGs.

Spoiler: But, at the end of the day...

This is the Origami's version of the Super Paper Mario quote.

 

[QQS]

What would be your reaction if the Geno fighter splash-screen is: “GENO RETURNS AS THE STARSEND SAVIOR” honoring this page?
I mean, we love: Geno stars in/whirls in/squares in/etc (my favorite is Geno Awakens; though).

But it would be a nice gesture from Sakurai. Maybe they know these kind of stuff also. Like for example they knew the Duck-Hunt meme related to Banjo-Kazooie (correct me if I’m wrong).

Anyway, it would be funny. But I would love the: Geno Awakens//or Geno Stars in Smash//or Joins the Party (in allusion to the party members of Mario RPG).

 

[Sabrewulf238]

PAPER MARIO: The Origame King & The Return of the Star Warrior.
View attachment 271761

(Credits to the Geno figure-sprite to YoshiDino123 on Deviant Art).

Im pretty confident in GENO joining the battle in Smash very SOON. Plus, Super Mario RPG to the NSO + maybe Geno revival in this new Paper Mario.

I’m done and paid with just Geno as one of our next DLC, though. Pretty sure it’s happening!

I was just thinking, looking at this boxart....that the characters alongside Paper Mario are probably his "partners".....but the toad isn't wearing anything unique on the boxart but the Toad following Mario in the trailer has an explorer outfit on.

I wonder if it's possible the partners have generic looks to them because we'll be able to dress them up in different outfits/gear. It's not the same as having unique designs, but I think that could be an ok compromise....

 

[Enigma735]

True, though man it makes me so worried they'll (Nintendo) do something incredibly stupid and put in Paper Mario, but based on the new Sticker Star 1-3 system. Not only would my #3 pick be royally tainted, but I also wouldn't get my #1 pick. Nintendo does dumb Nintendo moves all the time like making Sticker Star, Sticker Star 2, and now Sticker Star 3. I could see them doing this as well.

Though this is just my pessimism coming in because of how dreadful tOK looks to me.

Yeah I get what you mean, even though I quite liked Oragami King. I don't think Paper Mario is that likely anyways since I don't personally think he is DLC material since he is essentially just another Mario, and Geno was the character Sakurai said he wanted, so out of the two, I think Geno is most likely so I wouldn't worry. However, if Paper Mario were to get included, I hope his moveset would be more akin to PM64 and TTYD over Color Splash And Sticker Star.

 

[Firox]

Yet Color Splash was a disaster by ALL accounts and according to raw sales numbers, SPM was a raving success, so why are we straying from SPM, the game that was "clearly" the "best game by raw sales numbers" and continuing with the SS/CS formula??? Sorry man, that makes absolutely no sense. CS is virtually SS2 (and is a BETTER* GAME than SS), yet it did about 3-4x worse than it when justified for install-base, and about 20x worse when not.

* better when you're comparing rotten garbage to fresh garbage with Febreeze on it. Both are still garbage but CS is still a generally better game.

Again, I'm not defending SS (or CS), but apparently Nintendo seems to disagree with you. I'm simply offering my best guess as to why that is. The only logic I can see (though I agree with you it's flawed) is that they think it was reasonably successful based on the fact that it actually sold units. You don't have to like it. It's just a theory.

 

[Polarthief]

Again, I'm not defending SS (or CS), but apparently Nintendo seems to disagree with you. I'm simply offering my best guess as to why that is. The only logic I can see (though I agree with you it's flawed) is that they think it was reasonably successful based on the fact that it actually sold units. You don't have to like it. It's just a theory.

But you brought up sales. CS didn't move sales; it couldn't even break 200k, so thinking with both raw sales numbers and adjusted sales numbers is flawed thinking. SS also pushes less sales than SPM, so SS "flopped" too since it sold about half as much as SPM (even though it flopped for many other reasons).

Basically, Nintendo does a Nintendo thing because they're stupid idiots.

 

[Firox]

But you brought up sales. CS didn't move sales; it couldn't even break 200k, so thinking with both raw sales numbers and adjusted sales numbers is flawed thinking. SS also pushes less sales than SPM, so SS "flopped" too since it sold about half as much as SPM (even though it flopped for many other reasons).

Dude, I brought up sales for SS, NOT CS. I only mentioned that I wasn't defending CS because you brought it up. I totally admit that game was trash by every metric. As for SS, it sold the second highest (albeit a distant second). This is a fact. True there are other factors involved, but the fact remains from a sheer numerical standpoint.

Basically, Nintendo does a Nintendo thing because they're stupid idiots.

LOL That is also a fact. Can't argue with that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Except for the double digit amount of old characters who got added to Smash with no warning right?

Try and read Trolling for Dummies

Pupnapoleon with the kindergarten level trolls

These guys acting like they wouldn't have **** their pants in hype if Geno was in the trailer.

Pup isn't trolling you two... He's being genuine.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

id have to agree, this new PM game looks pretty good to me

 

[MattX20]

I would be happy to see Geno return in the main Mario series along with the Paper Mario companions

 

[Polarthief]

I would be happy to see Geno return in the main Mario series along with the Paper Mario companions

TBH I wouldn't unless there was a specific reason (e.g., the Star Road or the general universe is being threatened). Smash is one thing, hell even Mario Kart and Party as well, but for games with story, I wouldn't want him in for the sake of "oh just put Geno in there cuz people like him". He's a very story-driven character, and unless they suddenly want to change him 24 years later, I'd prefer if he sticks to spin-offs or Mario games that actually involve the Star Road again (like if there's a SMW remaster, him being somewhere in the Star Road, even just a cameo would be cool).

Also unrelated but Firox sorry for the hostility earlier; I know it's not an excuse but I've been depressed all day over the PM bullcrap; I'm just not in a good place atm.

 

[StarLight42]

These guys acting like they wouldn't have **** their pants in hype if Geno was in the trailer.

Pup isn't trolling you two... He's being genuine.

No he's not. And I've never wanted Geno in a Paper Mario game and i'm pretty sure I have even said on this board that I prefer the Mario RPG universe and Paper Mario universe being seperate.

Please don't act like you know what goes on inside my head, lmao.

Also, the fact that you randomly came in here to defend him says a lot. Going for another drive-by?

 

[Firox]

Also unrelated but Firox Firox sorry for the hostility earlier; I know it's not an excuse but I've been depressed all day over the PM bullcrap; I'm just not in a good place atm.

No worries, Dude, I'm sorry to hear you haven't been doing very well. I hope some good news comes our way soon to help cheer you up. I sure as heck know I could use some. Here's hoping Sakurai unveils the right fighter #7 in a few weeks.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No he's not.

Please don't act like you know what goes on inside my head, lmao.

So you're telling me I shouldn't assume whats in your head...

But then you assume what's in his?

Also, the fact that you randomly came in here to defend him says a lot. Going for another drive-by?

I lurk. Sue me.

That said. Another? When did I do a drive by?

And I've never wanted Geno in a Paper Mario game and i'm pretty sure I have even said on this board that I prefer the Mario RPG universe and Paper Mario universe being seperate.

Okay. That's a fine opinion to have. I'll concede I was wrong to assume what was in your head.

But c'mon, don't tell me you wouldn't be a little excited.