Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Droodle]

The main reason ARMS flopped was never due to Spring-Man alone.
It's due to the lack of content , being overpriced for what it is , the game being extremely arcadey (like , fights can last less than a minute) , and the main gameplay while having depth , being pretty simple when you get to it.

And well , that we need some kind of story mode. We still have this visual novel/ARMS comic that is in development hell , but beside that , you have nothing.

They tried to make ARMS the new Splatoon but didn't fully understood why Splatoon worked so well imo.
The franchise deserve another shot , because it has a lot of potential , and while the first game layed the ground works , there is so much to built upon.

ARMS didn't flop, though.

It sold 2mil, which while being no splatoon is still pretty darn successful by all accounts for a new IP. What it did was lose relevance rather quickly due to the reasons that you mentioned (no one was talking about it like a month after release). If ARMS 2 releases and ONLY has more characters chances are that it'll fail because it most people don't want more characters,, they want more meaningful content like you stated. It needs more story, more (good) modes, and a better reason to keep playing it (Nintendo really needs to improve their online systems, so they can actually run a ranked mode properly).

 

[Firox]

The main reason ARMS flopped was never due to Spring-Man alone.
It's due to the lack of content , being overpriced for what it is , the game being extremely arcadey (like , fights can last less than a minute) , and the main gameplay while having depth , being pretty simple when you get to it.

And well , that we need some kind of story mode. We still have this visual novel/ARMS comic that is in development hell , but beside that , you have nothing.

They tried to make ARMS the new Splatoon but didn't fully understood why Splatoon worked so well imo.
The franchise deserve another shot , because it has a lot of potential , and while the first game layed the ground works , there is so much to built upon.

Agree on all counts. The game is just too bare-bones as it stands. For the record though, I was never suggesting that Springman was the sole reason it didn't take off. I'm just saying that he's a relatively poor "mascot" which didn't help the franchise at all.

ARMS didn't flop, though.

It sold 2mil, which while being no splatoon is still pretty darn successful by all accounts for a new IP. What it did was lose relevance rather quickly due to the reasons that you mentioned. If ARMS 2 releases and ONLY has more characters chances are that it'll fail because it most people don't want more characters,, they want more meaningful content like you stated. It needs more story, more (good) modes, and a better reason to keep playing it (Nintendo really needs to improve their online systems, so they can actually run a ranked mode properly).

One important thing I think is worth mentioning is that while the game technically didn't "flop", it's respectable 2 mil sales were largely in part due to the fact that:

A) The Switch had recently been released and was starving for games that WEREN'T ports from the Wii U, hence it gained a more funneled amount of attention. It's like releasing Legally Blonde 3 in a year with no other movies. Guess which one gets the biggest box office release? (NOTE: This is just a hypothetical example before people start running too hard with it)

B) It was one of the first games (if not the only next to 1-2 Switch and Mario Party) to utilize the new joy-con motion controls. Tons of people bought it for the "Ooooh Aaaah" factor but then quickly lost interest due to the lack of content. I'd be incredibly interested to know the statistics of how many ARMS games were sold back to Gamestop/Ebay used within the first year of release.

 

[Loliko YnT]

ARMS didn't flop, though.

It sold 2mil, which while being no splatoon is still pretty darn successful by all accounts for a new IP. What it did was lose relevance rather quickly due to the reasons that you mentioned (no one was talking about it like a month after release). If ARMS 2 releases and ONLY has more characters chances are that it'll fail because it most people don't want more characters,, they want more meaningful content like you stated. It needs more story, more (good) modes, and a better reason to keep playing it (Nintendo really needs to improve their online systems, so they can actually run a ranked mode properly).

Yeah , from a sales perspective , the game was far from flopping. A flop would be , like , code name S.T.E.A.M.

It's just that as you said , as a multiplayer focused game , it lost all interest within a month or two. To be honest , if Nintendo Selects came back and ARMS got that treatment , i'm sure more people would have been inclined to try the game.

It's just that well , to me , when a multiplayer game sold well but is barely talked about or played a month within release , it will be seen as a flop by many , but not on a sales standpoint.

 

[TriggerX]

Im not fan of Arms myself, but I cant say it flopped. Pushing those kind of numbers and still being considered a flop would mean SMRPG was a flop as well. Or games like Astral Chain were flops.

It may not have pushed impressive numbers like splatoon, but it did well for itself as a product overall.

 

[Vector Victor]

Sounds more like ARMs fizzled out instead of flopping. Good short term success, but not prominent enough long term. Perhaps Smash addition will change that.

Although, I hope ARMs reveal outcome doesn't end up like Ridley in Smash 4: where they hide/tease the character but say ambiguous, only to finally reveal them and you find that there was nothing TO hide, ie, it would have made no difference showing them then or now.

 

[Deleted member]

While I totally get what you're saying with Springman, I just gotta say that I personally think Springman is one of the most "meh" poster boys a franchise could have. Aesthetically, he's kind of a turn-off and personality-wise he has all the charisma of a mailbox. Even as an "everyman", Ryu has way more personality, charisma and lore behind him than Springman. If Springman was designed to carry the game on his back, that might be part of the reason the franchise kind of fell flat. Not to bash him or his supporters, I'm just giving my two cents feelings about him.

Something I love about Smash is how it can introduce you to a character or a video game world and you start to get into it because you know who the character is on a surface level. It's almost like Smash is this intermediary friend who knows this other guy that's pretty cool, and when you're introduced to him, you hit it off, but you never would have thought twice about the guy had your first friend not introduced you to him. Even when I feel like a character is a total degenerate to play against, or if I don't like their playstyle, their aesthetic or moves are sometimes enough to get me into the game series, at least on a surface level.

When they let us know we were getting an ARMS fighter, I wanted to research the topic to have at least some idea of who we might be getting, look for clues that might hint at it, you know, that sort of thing. It's just part of how I am when it comes to Smash speculation, or any kind of speculation, really... and I have to say, ARMS is a neat universe with a lot of lore, both explicit and implied, and I feel like it would have been so popular if the gameplay didn't fall flat. I don't exactly know what they should have done with it, but third person "competitive" fighter wasn't it. Maybe beat-em-up?

It's a lighthearted world where one day you can wake up and your arms are spaghetti, and you essentially are government mandated to be enrolled in some kind of super hero database where they give you a mask that lets you actually control your spaghetti arms instead of them flailing around wildly, and the characters that are perceived as "bad guys" are just average science people trying to figure out what all this stretch armstrong nonsense is about and the only crime committed is poor quality control. It's the kind of game world that kids should be in love with and grow out of when they hit 13 or 14 just to fall in love with it again once they stop being edgy. I get thinking that Spring Man is boring, but there was supposed to be a comic book to go along with the game and, like I've mentioned before, it all feels very F-Zero. Spring Man's not a bounty hunting badass like Captain Falcon, but he's a simple guy who took up the mantle of "Spring Man" so he can win the championship belt for Spring Gym like all the Spring Mans before him failed to do. He's basic because he's designed to be an underdog that we're expected to love, and the part that the ARMS designers dropped the ball on, in my opinion, is not his design, but failing to present him to us as an underdog worth loving.

Im not fan of Arms myself, but I cant say it flopped. Pushing those kind of numbers and still being considered a flop would mean SMRPG was a flop as well. Or games like Astral Chain were flops.

It may not have pushed impressive numbers like splatoon, but it did well for itself as a product overall.

There's a difference in pushing 2 million units worldwide for the Super Nintendo in 1996 and pushing 2 million units worldwide for the Nintendo Switch in 2017. I dove into this topic in this post. Astral Chain sold over one million copies by December 2019, approximately half of ARMS' lifetime sales at the same time, and that was only a few months on shelves, so the comparison there is poor, too. For a first party title that essentially was trying to steal the spotlight from Punch Out, and was advertised to us like it was going to become an esports sensation, ARMS was a flop. Period.

 

[QQS]

As many of us believe, Geno is coming playable alone. As many of you know me already, I believe he is coming 100% and for me there is no option for Geno to be a costume or a premium one.

Though I love Mallow also, I don’t think he is coming playable or in a Tag-Team format. But I do believe he is coming in some form like an Assist, Costume and/or more properly, summoned by a Geno’s move. That being said, how do you think this would work? Maybe Mallow will join Geno in a Special Move?; or maybe Mallow will aid Geno in his Final Smash?

Im going with the second option. Mallow will aid Geno doing Star Rain while Geno will be doing Geno Flash. Maybe both at the same time or maybe one after the other.

If Proto-Man, Bass, Mega Man X and the rest of the Mega Man aid Classic Mega Man in his Final Smash; or Chrom aids Robin also, I don’t see a reason why Mallow would be treated different. I mean, for me the most accurate Final Smash for Mega Man could have been Super Adaptor from Mega Man 7; but Sakurai decided to represent more the Mega Man saga and add all the Mega Man incarnations + Proto Man + Bass, which I think it’s good, cause this is Smash.

In this way, I don’t see a reason for Mallow not appearing. He could be a nice Costume or Assist. Of course having him playable would be perfect also (separate with Geno would be perfect, but of course Geno will take the spot to represent MarioRPG series). That being said, I would love if they decide to extend more the MarioRPG world and add Mallow in his Final Smash.

My guess?

-Geno coming as Challenger Pack 7. All the moves from Mario RPG + his famous taunts and sounds (the iconic jump sound we love).

-Stage rotation between Mario RPG areas (or maybe just Forest Maze, just Star Hill or just Vista Hill) with cameos like Banjo-Kazooie stage.

-2 songs (Forest & Armed). But I can see more songs coming also, due to Yoko Shimomura already worked on Smash before, doing arrangements in:
BRAWL (Tetris Type A, Gritzy Desert and King DDD).
3DS/WII U (Magicant/Eight Melodies, Try Try Again, Route 10 and Ryu Stage)
ULTIMATE (Kass theme, Vega Stage, Treasure Trove Cove and Pasta)

-His Classic Route

-His Boxing Ring name

-His Kirby’s hat (Geno Beam or Geno Whirl)

-Spirits

-Mario logo as his icon

Thanks for reading. GENO FLASHES IN!

(Photos taken from the original game; credits to the artist of the Smash Ball icon please). I just mixed them.

 

[Polarthief]

Pushing those kind of numbers and still being considered a flop would mean SMRPG was a flop as well.

Haha let's not get ahead of ourselves. You're talking about a game from 2017 that has marketing, the INTERNET BEING A THING (that's way bigger than you know) and gaming being mainstream, as well as being on a brand new, successful console vs it being 1996, little to no Internet, little to no marketing, and on a console that would literally be "last gen" in a month. It also didn't even release in PAL regions.

I would say overcoming all of that, it sold very well. ARMS did okay; wasn't a flop, but the lack of long-term support/content was what caused it to not stick around like other online games.

TL;DR: You cannot look at numbers for games pre-Internet to compare to games today. That's a horribly unfair comparison and you know it.

Sounds more like ARMs fizzled out instead of flopping. Good short term success, but not prominent enough long term. Perhaps Smash addition will change that.

Definitely a better description, and that's Nintendo's fault for sitting by twiddling their thumbs. Same reason (and more) for why SMP was an absolute crap game overall. "HEY GUYS, WE GOT RID OF THE CAR, BUT ALSO GOT RID OF 80% OF WHAT YOU LOVE ABOUT MARIO PARTY :D", what a joke.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but June 16th would basically be the perfect time to release the Arms character since it coincides with Arms’s 3rd anniversary. June 16th also falls on a Tuesday, which is also what day Piranha Plant and Byleth released on. The only question now is if we will get the character reveal weeks prior in a possible Direct, or a Sakurai presentation on the same day.

 

[Slender]

Hi all!

This past week has got me thinking about why a lot of us want to see Geno in Smash. Of course, people can support him simply because he looks cool and has a moveset that fits Smash like a glove, but a lot of us want Geno back simply to get the essence of SMRPG back into the limelight. The return of Geno would mean the potential return of SMRPG as a whole, which could ultimately lead to it's revival. Even if this were to happen, it most certainly wouldn't be immediate.

Or would it?

Obviously, a lot of us are expecting SMRPG to be added to Nintendo's SNES Online service if Geno is to be added in Smash, but what about the possibility of something more? Perhaps, a remake? Square and Nintendo working together once again to bring SMRPG back to popularity?

Imagine a triple-hitter for fans of SMRPG. Have you been one of the folks rallying for Geno in Smash for the last decade or two? Here he is! On top of that, here is the original game for free (with NSO)! Looking for something more? How about a complete remake? I believe this would come as a surprise to many, but would check off almost everyone's list of what people have been wanting for so long.

In terms of a remake, setting the style to be similar to that of Link's Awakening (2019) would be an absolutely perfect fit. I know that a lot of people have been using this style to call for a remake of the Mother series, but with SMRPG, the fit is even better in my opinion. The squat proportions of SMRPG characters would blend flawlessly with the diorama-looking landscapes.

But who knows? Nintendo has been pumping out Mario RPG remakes for a while now. Given, they have been on the 3DS and have been in collaboration with Alphadream, but now that both Alphadream and the 3DS are practically done, perhaps it's time Nintendo and Square shook hands and brought back the one that started it all. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my end, but.... sometimes wishes take time to be granted.

 

[Polarthief]

The only question now is if we will get the character reveal weeks prior in a possible Direct

We're not getting a direct "weeks prior"; we're already weeks prior right now. Maybe *a* week prior if we were actually getting a direct in June, but there's been a lot of heavy rumors that we're not.

I wouldn't be surrpised if we got a fairly lengthy Sakurai video that reveals the ARMS rep(s?), explains their moves and "history" and whatnot, and then also reveals #7 and any other potential characters (#8? Bonuses?) or other stuff they would have in an E3 direct.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

As many of us believe, Geno is coming playable alone. As many of you know me already, I believe he is coming 100% and for me there is no option for Geno to be a costume or a premium one.

Though I love Mallow also, I don’t think he is coming playable or in a Tag-Team format. But I do believe he is coming in some form like an Assist, Costume and/or more properly, summoned by a Geno’s move. That being said, how do you think this would work? Maybe Mallow will join Geno in a Special Move?; or maybe Mallow will aid Geno in his Final Smash?

Im going with the second option. Mallow will aid Geno doing Star Rain while Geno will be doing Geno Flash. Maybe both at the same time or maybe one after the other.

If Proto-Man, Bass, Mega Man X and the rest of the Mega Man aid Classic Mega Man in his Final Smash; or Chrom aids Robin also, I don’t see a reason why Mallow would be treated different. I mean, for me the most accurate Final Smash for Mega Man could have been Super Adaptor from Mega Man 7; but Sakurai decided to represent more the Mega Man saga and add all the Mega Man incarnations + Proto Man + Bass, which I think it’s good, cause this is Smash.

In this way, I don’t see a reason for Mallow not appearing. He could be a nice Costume or Assist. Of course having him playable would be perfect also (separate with Geno would be perfect, but of course Geno will take the spot to represent MarioRPG series). That being said, I would love if they decide to extend more the MarioRPG world and add Mallow in his Final Smash.

My guess?

-Geno coming as Challenger Pack 7. All the moves from Mario RPG + his famous taunts and sounds (the iconic jump sound we love).

-Stage rotation between Mario RPG areas (or maybe just Forest Maze, just Star Hill or just Vista Hill) with cameos like Banjo-Kazooie stage.

-2 songs (Forest & Armed). But I can see more songs coming also, due to Yoko Shimomura already worked on Smash before, doing arrangements in:
BRAWL (Tetris Type A, Gritzy Desert and King DDD).
3DS/WII U (Magicant/Eight Melodies, Try Try Again, Route 10 and Ryu Stage)
ULTIMATE (Kass theme, Vega Stage, Treasure Trove Cove and Pasta)

-His Classic Route

-His Boxing Ring name

-His Kirby’s hat (Geno Beam or Geno Whirl)

-Spirits

-Mario logo as his icon

Thanks for reading. GENO FLASHES IN!

View attachment 271463
(Photos taken from the original game; credits to the artist of the Smash Ball icon please). I just mixed them.

Or examples like Sothis, The Jinjos, The Phantom Thieves, Fiora, The 8 remaining heroes, etc but imagine this:
Obviously all the smash fighters has 3 victory animation, the geno ones are: His classic victory pose, geno grabbing a Star Piece and Geno returning to the star road as in the end of the Smithy Battle. I think mallow can be showed in that victory pose like louis or could be a mii in cacomallow or in the list

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

To us, the thread who wants Geno in the game, him being a costume for a second time would be kind of insulting. That's our general opinion, and believe me we've been over and around this same conversation dozens of times with users who come into the thread with the good idea of "Hey, just make him a costume with music! Everyone's happy!" Except, well, we aren't happy. For me, Geno appearing as a costume in Smash 4 was enough to get me to stop caring about the game entirely. I didn't buy the last round of DLC, partially because I was honestly very disappointed at Geno being just a costume.

Honestly, in my opinion, we have enough Mii costumes. Nobody plays the Isaac costume and is happy they have that instead of a playable character. Geno would be exactly the same. People want their characters playable, not for the chance to have a mii cosplay as their character.



The times the thread has been locked is because people come in with the intent to inflame, and too many of our own members rising to the bait. Sorry that some of our members are a little mistrusting of newcomers to the thread.


People in this thread want Geno as a full character. And, again, we have nearly 2700 posts. We've been around the conversation about a return of the Mii Costume--with a songor two included even!--many, many times. While it's never an excuse to get heated, you should've expected a generally negative reaction to the suggestion of a costume instead of playable.

In addition to this, often times people in this thread respond to things very sarcastically and new people to the thread misconstrue that sarcasm as agressiveness or as us being too emotionally attached when in reality it's literally just us goofing off. Then once things are misconstrued they get miscontrued both ways as a result of long time posters being unable to have the same viewpoint because we've exhausted that exact same talking point several times over. I agree that people here are a little too trigger happy when it comes to acknowledging and responding to trolls, but I don't really see people going into many other threads specifically with the intent to rile people up so I understand why people here can be on edge.

I will say that I personally do value Mii costumes, however, returning costumes coming back as DLC costumes does kind of suck. It feels like they should have been in base game especially for characters who are front runners in speculation. But yes something is better than nothing. I don't think Geno is any less deserving than any other character especially considering his huge ties to Nintendo's flagship franchise and it's first go at RPGs. It's not insulting that it be suggested that he could be a cool Mii costume or that he should have some kind of representation in the game. But it is insulting that people would say that a mii costume is what or all Geno SHOULD be in the game and/or that he is less deserving than other characters that other people want. A lot of us want other characters too and have a reasonable perspective on what makes for a good Smash character due to discussing that ad nauseum over these many pages. If I went to another thread and said their character would be better suited as a Mii costume or that other characters from that company were more deserving then I'm sure that fanbase would get frustrated too.

If you (not you specifically-general you) truly like a character (even if there are plenty of characters you want more even from the same company) then there's no need to suggest that character is in any way less than others. If you truly think a character is cool then show it by supporting that character and it's fans instead of being ignorant even if the if the ignorance is unintentional. If you don't like the character then there is no need to go into a thread dedicated to the character and comment on anything. Even if you don't believe that character has a chance in hell if you go to their support group and decide to provide input then make sure that input is thoughtful and contributing something to that group. Some people are just inherently very creative and ambitious and could find creative new ways for groups to support their character regardless of how likely the person thinks the character is or even how much they actually like the character.

So I have an interesting question, and I’m sorry if this has been discussed in this thread prior—I haven’t waded my way through all of the pages yet—but what do you guys think about Geno having a voice? He talks in Super Mario RPG right? Do you think he’ll have one, and if so, what will it sound like?

It has been discussed before but it's been awhile and it's a good talking point so don't feel bad for bringing up a good talking point. Personally, I just want SMRPG sounds effects and no voice lines, but Geno can have one of those annoying anime girl voices for all I care as long as I can actually finally play my dude in Smash. I do think he'd have some fun voice lines like "I serve...a higher authority" if he did end up getting voiced.

 

[ActualGarbage]

We're not getting a direct "weeks prior"; we're already weeks prior right now. Maybe *a* week prior if we were actually getting a direct in June, but there's been a lot of heavy rumors that we're not.

I wouldn't be surrpised if we got a fairly lengthy Sakurai video that reveals the ARMS rep(s?), explains their moves and "history" and whatnot, and then also reveals #7 and any other potential characters (#8? Bonuses?) or other stuff they would have in an E3 direct.

Yeah Sakurai, explain to me the deep and engrossing history of ARMS, tell me all about the vast lore from this franchise for that 10 minute segment in the video.

 

[Sigran101]

I feel like while discussion is good and disagreeing is fine, people should know that we've been over this. Coming into a character thread and making an original argument is one thing. But literally everyone in the smash speculation scene has heard these same tired old anti Geno arguments before. If you just had a new thought, go ahead and share. If you're repeating an argument you've heard before, it should be safe to assume it isn't news to us, and thus that there is no point to coming in here and telling us. I think it's reasonable to be annoyed having to counter the same argument over and over because everyone and their mother thinks we haven't already heard.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Part of me is pretty glad that ARMS is getting a second chance with Smash, it's a cool world with cool characters and you could make a valid case for anyone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Part of me is pretty glad that ARMS is getting a second chance with Smash, it's a cool world with cool characters and you could make a valid case for anyone.

Agreed. This gives a lot of neat plausible characters. Mainly "the timing was wrong" isn't going to always matter for DLC. Depending who it is, it can change up Smash speculation heavily. AT, Spirits, alone. But what happens if it's Dr. Coyle? That means that being the protagonist/mascot isn't the only factor. Being a main character is more important than a protagonist too. Which is probably more what Sakurai means, and why Pikachu is the only non-protagonist chosen for the first character(though PT being impossible also is a part of it, but then we wouldn't have Jigglypuff but still have Pikachu either way, so).

 

[Icewolff92]

Agreed. This gives a lot of neat plausible characters. Mainly "the timing was wrong" isn't going to always matter for DLC. Depending who it is, it can change up Smash speculation heavily. AT, Spirits, alone. But what happens if it's Dr. Coyle? That means that being the protagonist/mascot isn't the only factor. Being a main character is more important than a protagonist too. Which is probably more what Sakurai means, and why Pikachu is the only non-protagonist chosen for the first character(though PT being impossible also is a part of it, but then we wouldn't have Jigglypuff but still have Pikachu either way, so).

I would argue that the "non-protagonist" part goes to Jigglypuff and not Pikachu. Pikachu is Pokemon's mascot. Jigglypuff is just a random Pokemon, that arguably only got in because it got popular during its time in the anime as the running "fall asleep and paint on face" gag.

Btw, I seen someone claim that the Arms character has been leaked. Anyone knows if that¨s correct?
"Edit" - Never mind, it was just a random 4chan leak who claims the trailer will be a sequel to Kencineroar trailer
https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/507496508/arms-trailer

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would argue that the "non-protagonist" part goes to Jigglypuff and not Pikachu. Pikachu is Pokemon's mascot. Jigglypuff is just a random Pokemon, that arguably only got in because it got popular during its time in the anime as the running "fall asleep and paint on face" gag.

That's exactly what I mean. Pikachu is the mascot. Jigglypuff would've been replaced by PT if they could make him playable. PT and Pikachu would come first. Pikachu's still a main character either way, but it's not the protagonist or antagonist either.

Btw, I seen someone claim that the Arms character has been leaked. Anyone knows if that¨s correct?
"Edit" - Never mind, it was just a random 4chan leak who claims the trailer will be a sequel to Kencineroar trailer
https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/507496508/arms-trailer

It's got some red flags. You can't have the Hero situation with 8 characters. Meanwhile you could using Mechanica and 7 others in the suit as is easily.

The trailer would've just showed off each alt, but that'd be it. The entire thing relies on knowing the full trailer. The release date is hyper easy to guess.

 

[Icewolff92]

That's exactly what I mean. Pikachu is the mascot. Jigglypuff would've been replaced by PT if they could make him playable. PT and Pikachu would come first. Pikachu's still a main character either way, but it's not the protagonist or antagonist either.

Oh my bad.

It's got some red flags. You can't have the Hero situation with 8 characters. Meanwhile you could using Mechanica and 7 others in the suit as is easily.

The trailer would've just showed off each alt, but that'd be it. The entire thing relies on knowing the full trailer. The release date is hyper easy to guess.

Agreed

Spawnwave media tweeted this, and we have apparently Elder Scrolls Blade shadow dropping https://twitter.com/SpawnWaveMedia/status/1260009896470147072

 

[Polarthief]

Part of me is pretty glad that ARMS is getting a second chance with Smash, it's a cool world with cool characters and you could make a valid case for anyone.

I am too but man if they're just adding an ARMS rep for the sake of adding an ARMS rep, I'll actually be more disappointed in that ARMS isn't getting a revival. I really enjoyed it but quickly grew bored since the base game isn't complex enough to enjoy it for all that long.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I am too but man if they're just adding an ARMS rep for the sake of adding an ARMS rep, I'll actually be more disappointed in that ARMS isn't getting a revival. I really enjoyed it but quickly grew bored since the base game isn't complex enough to enjoy it for all that long.

ARMS never stuck with me for long either and I stopped playing after the first few months. That said I wish the game got a lot more support only to see what other characters it would add because all of them are really cool.

 

[Enigma735]

I was just re-reading a few posts from two pages ago about the idea of Geno being a deluxe Mii Outfit, and I must ask. Am I the only one that thinks Geno is more likely to actually be playable then to be a deluxe Mii Outfit?

Like, I get their is a possibility it could happen, and we did get a Geno outfit in Smash 4, but I never hear any arguments as to why this makes sense. The reason why Sans was a deluxe Mii Outfit was, and let's be honest here, because people just wanted MEGALOVANIA in Smash. Most people didn't really care for actual playable Sans, people just wanted that song in Smash. And while their were a ton of genuine support for Cuphead, he was still a fairly new request that Studio MDHR wanted because they have publicly stated they wanted Cuphead in Smash in some form, so they got that with a Mii Outfit. And to top it all off, their is a trend that all these deluxe outfits are indie characters. Sure, this trend COULD break, but I don't see why it wouldn't be an indie character. I feel like these outfits are being made specifically because Sakurai isn't able to include indie characters, but wants to achieve something close to that for the fans with these deluxe outfits.

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't fit these criteria. Geno does more then just shoot. He can turn in to a cannon, fire discs of light, and is a character most people want to see included for the character himself, unlike Sans. Like I said, Geno WAS a Mii Outfit in Smash 4, but in Sakurai's interview, he was unable to get Geno at the time and wanted to fulfill something for the fans by making him a Mii Outfit. With how popular of a request Geno is, I don't see why the outfit would come back or the idea of Geno getting a Sans And Cuphead tier Mii Outfit would make any sense. Unless Square Enix is stingy about Geno for some reason, which I doubt, then I think its more likely Geno will get included as an actual playable character rather then having a Mii Outfit again

 

[QQS]

I was just re-reading a few posts from two pages ago about the idea of Geno being a deluxe Mii Outfit, and I must ask. Am I the only one that thinks Geno is more likely to actually be playable then to be a deluxe Mii Outfit?

Like, I get their is a possibility it could happen, and we did get a Geno outfit in Smash 4, but I never hear any arguments as to why this makes sense. The reason why Sans was a deluxe Mii Outfit was, and let's be honest here, because people just wanted MEGALOVANIA in Smash. Most people didn't really care for actual playable Sans, people just wanted that song in Smash. And while their were a ton of genuine support for Cuphead, he was still a fairly new request that Studio MDHR wanted because they have publicly stated they wanted Cuphead in Smash in some form, so they got that with a Mii Outfit. And to top it all off, their is a trend that all these deluxe outfits are indie characters. Sure, this trend COULD break, but I don't see why it wouldn't be an indie character. I feel like these outfits are being made specifically because Sakurai isn't able to include indie characters, but wants to achieve something close to that for the fans with these deluxe outfits.

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't fit these criteria. Geno does more then just shoot. He can turn in to a cannon, fire discs of light, and is a character most people want to see included for the character himself, unlike Sans. Like I said, Geno WAS a Mii Outfit in Smash 4, but in Sakurai's interview, he was unable to get Geno at the time and wanted to fulfill something for the fans by making him a Mii Outfit. With how popular of a request Geno is, I don't see why the outfit would come back or the idea of Geno getting a Sans And Cuphead tier Mii Outfit would make any sense. Unless Square Enix is stingy about Geno for some reason, which I doubt, then I think its more likely Geno will get included as an actual playable character rather then having a Mii Outfit again

Totally agree, there is no option for me for a premium costume of Geno; not even his old costume coming back. He is coming full playable this time.

 

[Enigma735]

Totally agree, there is no option for me for a premium costume of Geno; not even his old costume coming back. He is coming full playable this time.

Agreed! The only arguments people have for the idea of that is, "Well, they have done it before, so they can easily do it again", which that argument never made sense to me.

 

[TriggerX]

Something I love about Smash is how it can introduce you to a character or a video game world and you start to get into it because you know who the character is on a surface level. It's almost like Smash is this intermediary friend who knows this other guy that's pretty cool, and when you're introduced to him, you hit it off, but you never would have thought twice about the guy had your first friend not introduced you to him. Even when I feel like a character is a total degenerate to play against, or if I don't like their playstyle, their aesthetic or moves are sometimes enough to get me into the game series, at least on a surface level.

When they let us know we were getting an ARMS fighter, I wanted to research the topic to have at least some idea of who we might be getting, look for clues that might hint at it, you know, that sort of thing. It's just part of how I am when it comes to Smash speculation, or any kind of speculation, really... and I have to say, ARMS is a neat universe with a lot of lore, both explicit and implied, and I feel like it would have been so popular if the gameplay didn't fall flat. I don't exactly know what they should have done with it, but third person "competitive" fighter wasn't it. Maybe beat-em-up?

It's a lighthearted world where one day you can wake up and your arms are spaghetti, and you essentially are government mandated to be enrolled in some kind of super hero database where they give you a mask that lets you actually control your spaghetti arms instead of them flailing around wildly, and the characters that are perceived as "bad guys" are just average science people trying to figure out what all this stretch armstrong nonsense is about and the only crime committed is poor quality control. It's the kind of game world that kids should be in love with and grow out of when they hit 13 or 14 just to fall in love with it again once they stop being edgy. I get thinking that Spring Man is boring, but there was supposed to be a comic book to go along with the game and, like I've mentioned before, it all feels very F-Zero. Spring Man's not a bounty hunting badass like Captain Falcon, but he's a simple guy who took up the mantle of "Spring Man" so he can win the championship belt for Spring Gym like all the Spring Mans before him failed to do. He's basic because he's designed to be an underdog that we're expected to love, and the part that the ARMS designers dropped the ball on, in my opinion, is not his design, but failing to present him to us as an underdog worth loving.


There's a difference in pushing 2 million units worldwide for the Super Nintendo in 1996 and pushing 2 million units worldwide for the Nintendo Switch in 2017. I dove into this topic in this post. Astral Chain sold over one million copies by December 2019, approximately half of ARMS' lifetime sales at the same time, and that was only a few months on shelves, so the comparison there is poor, too. For a first party title that essentially was trying to steal the spotlight from Punch Out, and was advertised to us like it was going to become an esports sensation, ARMS was a flop. Period.

Haha let's not get ahead of ourselves. You're talking about a game from 2017 that has marketing, the INTERNET BEING A THING (that's way bigger than you know) and gaming being mainstream, as well as being on a brand new, successful console vs it being 1996, little to no Internet, little to no marketing, and on a console that would literally be "last gen" in a month. It also didn't even release in PAL regions.

I would say overcoming all of that, it sold very well. ARMS did okay; wasn't a flop, but the lack of long-term support/content was what caused it to not stick around like other online games.

TL;DR: You cannot look at numbers for games pre-Internet to compare to games today. That's a horribly unfair comparison and you know it.



Definitely a better description, and that's Nintendo's fault for sitting by twiddling their thumbs. Same reason (and more) for why SMP was an absolute crap game overall. "HEY GUYS, WE GOT RID OF THE CAR, BUT ALSO GOT RID OF 80% OF WHAT YOU LOVE ABOUT MARIO PARTY :D", what a joke.

lol I’m lazy so hopefully this covers as a response to both of you.

While the internet is a factor, honestly it was just a different time period. I wouldn’t say the state of the internet back then is an excuse as to why Smrpg sold the way it did. The internet has very little to do with it. My copy was purchased brand new, and there were plenty of commercials, store ads and the such that caught your attention.

I think it just boils down to the general feeling most people had towards certain genres and Ips. Smrpg was good, but it was no super Mario world. People loved those platformers and multiplayer games. Here in the states Rpgs were really just gaining traction.

Haha In contrast Smrpg has Mario’s branding on it, and a commercial during a time where people couldn’t skip them. So regardless of the internet being around, Smrpg had its own advantages and still only did 2 million in sales.
No one is saying that Arms is as successful as splatoon, it’s one of those mainstream hits.
However Arms is as easily as successful as Smrpg.
It will end up being one of those cult favorite games for sure

Now if Smrpg were to come out today could it push 2 million units?
Yes ,I believe so, BUT I would expect to see it
struggle around 4 million.UNLESS, there are drastic changes made to the game.

Btw don’t get it twisted though, Smrpg is no flop, however neither is arms, but both series will never be a smash bros or splatoon level series.

 

[Icewolff92]

I was just re-reading a few posts from two pages ago about the idea of Geno being a deluxe Mii Outfit, and I must ask. Am I the only one that thinks Geno is more likely to actually be playable then to be a deluxe Mii Outfit?

I say 50/50. I say that as someone that thinks people here are looking into details as "evidence" even though it just feels like reaching or coincidence. Especially the whole idea on that he has to be next in line because "Legend of The Seven Stars". Undertale is a phenomenon and Sans were extremely requested, yet he ended up as a Mii Costume... so the "people want comparison" work here. Geno is demanded yes, but don¨t act like Sans wasn¨t.

Agreed! The only arguments people have for the idea of that is, "Well, they have done it before, so they can easily do it again", which that argument never made sense to me.

It makes sense because we are not flies in the Nintendos office and have trojans to know the communication between Nintendo and Sakurai. People had the same mentality about Majoras Mask, Isaac from Golden Sun, Geno (pre-release), etc because this is ultimate, then clearly they have to add the big fan favorites ... and long and behold... then came the massacre that was the November Smash direct the year they released the game. We said that with Banjo, Geno has to be next in the former fighters pass. Did we get him? No. Hell, do I need to remember people on how the board was dead set that Geno would be a character in the past because of the Starling picture?

Geno could get in, Geno could just be a premium costume. We simply don't know. The best approach is not to act like he is in, nor is it good to act like he is a premium. Just have your head low and wait and see.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

New question to the room (since I continually read that an upgraded costume has no point or is a waste of resources... which doesn't make sense to me but that's really not my point).

But here is the question:

Would the room honestly prefer no Mii costume to any mii costume? No Mii costume to an upgrade?
Obviously everyone here wants the character. But let's in this theoretical concept, take off that option.
What's the next best option?

This is just me but at this point, it shouldn't come back, regardless of upgraded or not. The longer that thing stays in the void, the more its going to hurt if it gets added because it's just a hot knife to the back that's been building up anxiety. I'd rather it not show up at all because it just comes off as a middle finger to the people who wanted him who's been led along for a base game and two passes.

 

[Icewolff92]

Would the room honestly prefer no Mii costume to any mii costume? No Mii costume to an upgrade?
Obviously everyone here wants the character. But let's in this theoretical concept, take off that option.
What's the next best option?

If he isn¨t a fighter, and we only get the costume, then please let it be a premium. If its the Smash4 costume then let it be.

 

[Polarthief]

ARMS never stuck with me for long either and I stopped playing after the first few months. That said I wish the game got a lot more support only to see what other characters it would add because all of them are really cool.

Characters are neat and all, but I wanted more stuff to do, more base modes, more content, etc. Every fight just felt very repetitive to me. I don't think it lasted more than a few weeks at best for me, maybe not even past 2 weeks.

 

[Enigma735]

I say 50/50. I say that as someone that thinks people here are looking into details as "evidence" even though it just feels like reaching or coincidence. Especially the whole idea on that he has to be next in line because "Legend of The Seven Stars". Undertale is a phenomenon and Sans were extremely requested, yet he ended up as a Mii Costume... so the "people want comparison" work here. Geno is demanded yes, but don¨t act like Sans wasn¨t.



It makes sense because we are not flies in the Nintendos office and have trojans to know the communication between Nintendo and Sakurai. People had the same mentality about Majoras Mask, Isaac from Golden Sun, Geno (pre-release), etc because this is ultimate, then clearly they have to add the big fan favorites ... and long and behold... then came the massacre that was the November Smash direct the year they released the game. We said that with Banjo, Geno has to be next in the former fighters pass. Did we get him? No. Hell, do I need to remember people on how the board was dead set that Geno would be a character in the past because of the Starling picture?

I completely understand Sans was requested genuinely, but even still, and he shares this with Cuphead, they were fairly new requests at the time. I have learned that it takes a long time for requested characters to get included. That is why I believe characters like the Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa are most likely not getting included since they are fairly new and only started popping up in Smash speculation during Ultimate. And, it has taken long requested characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo this long to finally get included, and Geno fits in that same category. Sakurai acknowledges the support for Geno, hence why he added the Mii Outfit in 4, but I don't see the sense in bringing it back if he knows Geno is a requested character. I just feel like that would be a huge slap in the face for people like us who have been wanting Geno for all these years.

 

[Icewolff92]

I completely understand Sans was requested genuinely, but even still, and he shares this with Cuphead, they were fairly new requests at the time. I have learned that it takes a long time for requested characters to get included. That is why I believe characters like the Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa are most likely not getting included since they are fairly new and only started popping up in Smash speculation during Ultimate. And, it has taken long requested characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo this long to finally get included, and Geno fits in that same category. Sakurai acknowledges the support for Geno, hence why he added the Mii Outfit in 4, but I don't see the sense in bringing it back if he knows Geno is a requested character. I just feel like that would be a huge slap in the face for people like us who have been wanting Geno for all these years.

There has been a longer period of time when it comes to supporting Doom Guy and Ryu... but anyway... from the top of my head. Isaac is a heavily requested character, Waluigi is a highly requested character, Lyn is a highly requested character, Crystal is a highly requested character. Majora's Mask is a highly requested character, and each and every one of them has a long history of support. Are any of these playable? No, they aren¨t. The closest thing when it comes to playable is their Mii Costume. No matter how many characters Sakurai and Nintendo put in, they will never be able to please everyone.

We can argue about how our character deserves to be in, but so can "insert fan of character x" too.

People said that it made no sense to add Incineroar instead of Decidueye prior to his reveal, people said that Sakurai will never give us a generic enemy... People said that there is no way in hell that we are getting a first-party rep in the former pass (and especially not a Fire Emblem one).

I can easily see Geno being another Banjo situation, but that does not mean its impossible for the chances of Geno returning as a costume. We all know that Nintendo and Sakurai see it as a "sorry, but here is something at least" with the Mii Costumes... We don¨t know what Nintendo wants Sakurai to add. For what we know, the entire pack could be first-party only and he sticks to be a JPG. We should all just wait and see, and not wave the victory flag before the bomb has not even dropped.

 

[Enigma735]

There has been a longer period of time when it comes to supporting Doom Guy and Ryu... but anyway... from the top of my head. Isaac is a heavily requested character, Waluigi is a highly requested character, Lyn is a highly requested character, Crystal is a highly requested character. Majora's Mask is a highly requested character, and each and every one of them has a long history of support. Are any of these playable? No, they aren¨t. The closest thing when it comes to playable is their Mii Costume. No matter how many characters Sakurai and Nintendo put in, they will never be able to please everyone.

We can argue about how our character deserves to be in, but so can "insert fan of character x" too.

People said that it made no sense to add Incineroar instead of Decidueye prior to his reveal, people said that Sakurai will never give us a generic enemy... People said that there is no way in hell that we are getting a first-party rep in the former pass (and especially not a Fire Emblem one).

I can easily see Geno being another Banjo situation, but that does not mean its impossible for the chances of Geno returning as a costume. We all know that Nintendo and Sakurai see it as a "sorry, but here is something at least" with the Mii Costumes... We don¨t know what Nintendo wants Sakurai to add. For what we know, the entire pack could be first-party only and he sticks to be a JPG. We should all just wait and see, and not wave the victory flag before the bomb has not even dropped.

Fair enough, and I do think its possible he could be a Mii Outfit again, but if I had to guess based on how things are looking right now, I think he has a higher chance of being playable, but we must wait and see. I will admit, you make good points and I completely get what you're saying.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I completely understand Sans was requested genuinely, but even still, and he shares this with Cuphead, they were fairly new requests at the time. I have learned that it takes a long time for requested characters to get included. That is why I believe characters like the Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa are most likely not getting included since they are fairly new and only started popping up in Smash speculation during Ultimate. And, it has taken long requested characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo this long to finally get included, and Geno fits in that same category. Sakurai acknowledges the support for Geno, hence why he added the Mii Outfit in 4, but I don't see the sense in bringing it back if he knows Geno is a requested character. I just feel like that would be a huge slap in the face for people like us who have been wanting Geno for all these years.

Whether they're new or old does not make much of a difference for Nintendo.

Business is a lot more useful than stuff like that. They only need to think including them would be a good idea. In most cases, business pretty much won out since they were going for characters from an active product for 3rd parties. Like, Terry is... the only exception at best? Even Pac-Man had a show at the time.

It doesn't mean Geno won't get in, but being "too new" only refers to actually new characters, not older ones who are clearly major icons to begin with. They're plausible to include quite easily, honestly. That said, we don't know the ballot results, and the idea they weren't requested at all before they "picked up steam" seems a little silly. A lot of people don't care about Nintendo origins/connections, and just want cool characters. As long as they existed by the time of the ballot, they very likely had some votes. Some more than others. Doomslayer is a very popular character. Another way to put is it to avoid the Smash Bubble effect. Just cause you don't see it often requested online doesn't mean they lack requests.

 

[Megadoomer]

I completely understand Sans was requested genuinely, but even still, and he shares this with Cuphead, they were fairly new requests at the time. I have learned that it takes a long time for requested characters to get included. That is why I believe characters like the Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa are most likely not getting included since they are fairly new and only started popping up in Smash speculation during Ultimate. And, it has taken long requested characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo this long to finally get included, and Geno fits in that same category. Sakurai acknowledges the support for Geno, hence why he added the Mii Outfit in 4, but I don't see the sense in bringing it back if he knows Geno is a requested character. I just feel like that would be a huge slap in the face for people like us who have been wanting Geno for all these years.

I know what you mean with the bolded part (that their demand is fairly recent), but it's best to be careful with the wording; those two aren't new characters by any means, and they have a lot of history behind them.

As for the Mii costume thing, I see it as a poor consolation prize in a vast majority of cases. (Never forget) Even with someone like Sans or Cuphead, where it closely resembles the character and comes with a music track, there's still missed potential there, particularly if the character has been requested for years or even decades. Mii costumes aren't going to accurately replicate what it's like to play as a specific character in Smash, or give fans of those characters stages, an extensive soundtrack, and all of the details, love, and care that we've come to expect with Smash Bros. characters. (though making someone else dress up as him to get out of fighting and not even bothering to come up with his own moveset is entirely in character for Sans)

If we had gotten a Banjo-Kazooie Mii Gunner costume, even if it had a big goofy mascot head like the Banjo-Tooie commercials, it would be a rather poor substitute for the real deal. Same thing goes for Sora, Master Chief, Bomberman, etc. I get that it's not possible to add every demanded character in, especially when the character in question is owned by a third party (I'm not sure what's involved in the negotiation process), but I'm hoping that the Mii costumes in this game won't be huge gut-punches this time around, and hopefully, we won't get characters who have been in high demand for a while relegated to that status. (Smash Ultimate's DLC has been pretty good so far in that regard)

EDIT: To be clear, there are times where it works. I got the Inkling costume in Smash 4 because it was the closest that we were going to get for that game. (the trophy that came with it helped) Like I said, Sans works well, Cuphead's solid, and stuff like the Slime or Morgana hats are great. It just doesn't always mesh well, and if it's a popular character, it can feel like a punch to the gut for people who wanted that character to be playable.

 

[Enigma735]

Whether they're new or old does not make much of a difference for Nintendo.

Business is a lot more useful than stuff like that. They only need to think including them would be a good idea. In most cases, business pretty much won out since they were going for characters from an active product for 3rd parties. Like, Terry is... the only exception at best? Even Pac-Man had a show at the time.

It doesn't mean Geno won't get in, but being "too new" only refers to actually new characters, not older ones who are clearly major icons to begin with. They're plausible to include quite easily, honestly. That said, we don't know the ballot results, and the idea they weren't requested at all before they "picked up steam" seems a little silly. A lot of people don't care about Nintendo origins/connections, and just want cool characters. As long as they existed by the time of the ballot, they very likely had some votes. Some more than others. Doomslayer is a very popular character. Another way to put is it to avoid the Smash Bubble effect. Just cause you don't see it often requested online doesn't mean they lack requests.

Fair enough and I completely understand what you're saying. I hope Geno is playable and I can be a bit bias sometimes, but I do realize their is that possibility, even if I personally think its a small possibility. We'll just have to wait and see though.

 

[PatPrime]

I really don't see a deluxe mii costume of Geno getting unless Squenix REALLY wanted someone else to put in pass 2 and Sakurai really wants to do as much as he can to appease you guys. Either the costume from before is getting in or Geno joins the roster, and it's still weird that the costume hasn't returned.

 

[Lord Woomy]

it's still weird that the costume hasn't returned.

Be careful with saying that. If you do, you may get an essay response as to why Geno's missing Mii costume actually means nothing through over analyzing literally every detail!

 

[Polarthief]

Be careful with saying that. If you do, you may get an essay response as to why Geno's missing Mii costume actually means nothing through over analyzing literally every detail!

"It's just coming with the Square rep in FP2. Also CacoMallow and Mii Costume Leaker are clearly fakes. It doesn't matter that literally no other modder can make as clean a costume as CacoMallow and MCL just got lucky with random guesses." -The Detractors

 

[PatPrime]

Be careful with saying that. If you do, you may get an essay response as to why Geno's missing Mii costume actually means nothing through over analyzing literally every detail!

Good thing I'm expressing my opinions and observations on Smashboards and not any other website or the Newcomer Speculation thread on this site.

Especially Twitter, GameFAQs, or "insert number or thing"-chan.