Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Icewolff92]

The problem with Byleth is that they barely cover the various weapon types and classes that FE is known for, and the moves involving the relics feel more like an afterthought. If it weren't for Robin who represented spellcasters, almost all of the FE characters would be sword users. There are no lancers, axe users, archers, and all the other classes flat out ignored.

"Byleth barley cover the various weapon types", -> uses Sword, Lance, Axe, and Bow. Also, relic more like an afterthought? It's was the best way to integrate a Fire Emblem character from Three Houses unless they wanted to use Byleth as a Pokemon trainer, with you being able to switch around with the lords. There Houses does not include an "Azura" (aka a second neutral main character that you can get on every route) that could have worked as the character as a 3H rep

I agree that it's disappointing that we don¨t have the likes of Hector, Azura (who should have gotten in before Corrin anyway if it was necessary to put a Fates character in) or hell even Black Knight concidering the lack of villains. But don¨t act like Byleth is another vanilla sword user like the majority of the Fire Emblem reps.

 

[Malo Mart]

Can I talk a little bit about how ****ING BONKERS this leak really is? I've been aware of it early on thanks to Marushin on discord, but even then it's hard for me wrap my head around it completely.

The bulk of the data found seems to stem from the Nintendo 64, GameCube and Wii, including but not limited to design documents of said consoles, old N64 tech demos and the entire goddamn source code for the Wii. And this is just a sample what we KNOW so far, the very tip of this iceberg-shaped cornucopia that hackers all over are feasting on.

We're talking about just over 2 terabytes of data here. HOT. DAMN. This ain't no joke. To put into perspective for those who don't get it, TB of data equivalent to 1024 GB, which itself is 32 times the storage size of a Switch. And here's a thought I had about it too, with 2 TB you could easily store every single 1st and 2nd party Nintendo game ever released up until the Wii/DS, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration. The largest game Nintendo published for any of those platforms AFAIK was Brawl with 8 GB thanks to the dual layered disc technology, and it only goes down from there. Hell, you could probably add the 3DS, Wii U and maybe even Switch libraries, as well as lots of 3rd party games, and still have plenty room left. I repeat, this ain't no joke.

Now think of everything that could be lurking in that there leak. Long lost betas for games like Ocarina of Time. Playable versions of cancelled or unreleased games like Earthbound 64. A myriad of concept documents for who knows how many games. Maybe even SMRPG content we've never before seen, as unlikely as it might be (hey look, now this post is on topic!). The possibilities are damn near endless, and so is the excitement for anyone who's even mildly interested in the history of Nintendo, myself included. This **** is hysterical! A legendary **** up for Nintendo, yet a delightful feast for us epic gamer crowd.

All that said, I'm by no means a buff on this subject, so if any of y'all have to correct something stupid I said, then feel free.




tl;dr this leak big, my brain small, cacomallow real

 

[Qeomash]

The data hoarder and collector in me is really glad this source code leak has happened. I'm sad that it came through illicit means. I honestly hope nothing newer than the Wii or WiiUis released--leaking the source code for a current console could irrevocably ruin the system and make it open to hackers.

For the older stuff, I am a huge proponent of open source software, and I really wish more companies would release the source code to their outdated systems and games to help archivists preserve and maintain them going forward. Many people see game emulation only as piracy, but it has the additional benefit of being really good for preserving old systems and software. There will come a time that every NES in the world no longer functions, but we will always have the emulators and ROMs. Getting access to the source code of the games, and the systems themselves, makes recreating the systems needed for perfect emulation much, much easier.

 

[QQS]

Nice art! Credits to the artist! Actually if you look for Geno stuff with the #: GenoForSmash or GenoSquad, there are a lot of amazing pictures on Instagram.

Geno fixes Star Road once again!

 

[pinshadow]

Can I talk a little bit about how ****ING BONKERS this leak really is? I've been aware of it early on thanks to Marushin on discord, but even then it's hard for me wrap my head around it completely.

The bulk of the data found seems to stem from the Nintendo 64, GameCube and Wii, including but not limited to design documents of said consoles, old N64 tech demos and the entire goddamn source code for the Wii. And this is just a sample what we KNOW so far, the very tip of this iceberg-shaped cornucopia that hackers all over are feasting on.

We're talking about just over 2 terabytes of data here. HOT. DAMN. This ain't no joke. To put into perspective for those who don't get it, TB of data equivalent to 1024 GB, which itself is 32 times the storage size of a Switch. And here's a thought I had about it too, with 2 TB you could easily store every single 1st and 2nd party Nintendo game ever released up until the Wii/DS, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration. The largest game Nintendo published for any of those platforms AFAIK was Brawl with 8 GB thanks to the dual layered disc technology, and it only goes down from there. Hell, you could probably add the 3DS, Wii U and maybe even Switch libraries, as well as lots of 3rd party games, and still have plenty room left. I repeat, this ain't no joke.

Now think of everything that could be lurking in that there leak. Long lost betas for games like Ocarina of Time. Playable versions of cancelled or unreleased games like Earthbound 64. A myriad of concept documents for who knows how many games. Maybe even SMRPG content we've never before seen, as unlikely as it might be (hey look, now this post is on topic!). The possibilities are damn near endless, and so is the excitement for anyone who's even mildly interested in the history of Nintendo, myself included. This **** is hysterical! A legendary **** up for Nintendo, yet a delightful feast for us epic gamer crowd.

All that said, I'm by no means a buff on this subject, so if any of y'all have to correct something stupid I said, then feel free.




tl;dr this leak big, my brain small, cacomallow real

Keep in mind, this is all from NoA, so whatever builds they would have there would have been for translational purposes most likely. I don't know how likely it is they would have something like Zelda 64 betas or Earthbound 64. Yes, we got the Spaceworld stuff for GS but from what I can tell there were a bunch of beta builds of that game on the server for some reason. I'm not entirely sure what the deal is. We could get crazy stuff, and we probably will, but what it actually is is completely up in the air.

Where exactly is the 2TB number coming from anyway? People keep saying it but what is the actual source?

 

[Malo Mart]

Keep in mind, this is all from NoA, so whatever builds they would have there would have been for translational purposes most likely. I don't know how likely it is they would have something like Zelda 64 betas or Earthbound 64. Yes, we got the Spaceworld stuff for GS but from what I can tell there were a bunch of beta builds of that game on the server for some reason. I'm not entirely sure what the deal is. We could get crazy stuff, and we probably will, but what it actually is is completely up in the air.

Good catch. Maybe if game prototypes were granted to NoA early, there's a chance they'd be found among the leaked material, but that remains to be seen.

Where exactly is the 2TB number coming from anyway? People keep saying it but what is the actual source?

Good thing you called the 2TB claim into question. After a little digging, the closest to a source I could find is a claim by YouTuber Sebastian, who's been doing some of the mining:

Didn't have time to watch the video, but he clarifies in the comments that it's "the word on the vine", so nothing definitive as of yet. Still, if those claims are true, my last post helps illustrate just how absurd this all is. We'll have to see I suppose.

 

[MattX20]

Well, if there's any information from this leak that pertains to Smash Ultimate, we'll likely find out by the end of the week at the latest.

 

[Firox]

Can I talk a little bit about how ****ING BONKERS this leak really is? I've been aware of it early on thanks to Marushin on discord, but even then it's hard for me wrap my head around it completely.

The bulk of the data found seems to stem from the Nintendo 64, GameCube and Wii, including but not limited to design documents of said consoles, old N64 tech demos and the entire goddamn source code for the Wii. And this is just a sample what we KNOW so far, the very tip of this iceberg-shaped cornucopia that hackers all over are feasting on.

We're talking about just over 2 terabytes of data here. HOT. DAMN. This ain't no joke. To put into perspective for those who don't get it, TB of data equivalent to 1024 GB, which itself is 32 times the storage size of a Switch. And here's a thought I had about it too, with 2 TB you could easily store every single 1st and 2nd party Nintendo game ever released up until the Wii/DS, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration. The largest game Nintendo published for any of those platforms AFAIK was Brawl with 8 GB thanks to the dual layered disc technology, and it only goes down from there. Hell, you could probably add the 3DS, Wii U and maybe even Switch libraries, as well as lots of 3rd party games, and still have plenty room left. I repeat, this ain't no joke.

Now think of everything that could be lurking in that there leak. Long lost betas for games like Ocarina of Time. Playable versions of cancelled or unreleased games like Earthbound 64. A myriad of concept documents for who knows how many games. Maybe even SMRPG content we've never before seen, as unlikely as it might be (hey look, now this post is on topic!). The possibilities are damn near endless, and so is the excitement for anyone who's even mildly interested in the history of Nintendo, myself included. This **** is hysterical! A legendary **** up for Nintendo, yet a delightful feast for us epic gamer crowd.

All that said, I'm by no means a buff on this subject, so if any of y'all have to correct something stupid I said, then feel free.




tl;dr this leak big, my brain small, cacomallow real

Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys! I'm late to the party here. What leak are we talking about?!

 

[MattX20]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys! I'm late to the party here. What leak are we talking about?!

Source code leak that occurred over the weekend

 

[Firox]

Source code leak that occurred over the weekend

Source code? So it had something to do with Jake Gyllenhaal on a train? I always knew he was running corporate espionage on Nintendo.

 

[DMurr]

On the topic of longtime fan requests, there's almost nobody left that checks the boxes for everyone. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo were kind of the last big fan requests that were overwhelmingly wanted by most people. Geno's big but he's controversial. Crash kind of is too. Characters like Lloyd, Waluigi, and Master Chief definitely are. I think that's also why a lot of people disagree on the potential nature of Season 2.

Isaac would be a big one. Geno and Isaac are the last two heavy hitters. Especially considering how long both of them have been around and if Spring Man is the ARMS character and breaks the AT rule then I think more could be down the road like Waluigi and Isaac who are arguably as big in terms of requests as Geno himself.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I've been around in speculation since pre-Brawl, so I've seen the kind of ebbs and flows of the popularity of characters. The problem with talking about what long-time requests are "big" is how much that criteria changes.

Different circumstances affect the amount characters are speculated on or requested. Alongside the obvious in-game roles (ATs, Mii costumes, etc.) or quotes from Sakurai (interviews/columns), there's also what characters are already revealed (people look for trends and form rules), and especially what games are out at the time (new game characters always get lots of requests). The current perspective always changes the fanbase more than most people tend to realize, but honestly, we do usually get what we want, a lot of the time.

That said, from my perspective, if we were to get a long-time fan request it would be among Waluigi, Geno and Isaac.

 

[Nicnac]

Sorry if I sound like a clown here, but how does this leak of stuff from the Wii era relate to the modern day at all? I'm not trying to sound condescending in any manner, I'm just clueless. It's a huge leak in terms of content but what does this mean in terms of impacts?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sorry if I sound like a clown here, but how does this leak of stuff from the Wii era relate to the modern day at all? I'm not trying to sound condescending in any manner, I'm just clueless. It's a huge leak in terms of content but what does this mean in terms of impacts?

All it means is more could leak if the hacker had more stuff that people are holding onto until a certain time so they can have some feeling of importance (considering this stuff was obtained in 2018 afaik and it’s just now coming out). It doesn’t really mean anything for modern-day stuff, it’s just cool stuff and it could help ROM hackers and people working on emulation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

How in the name of hell is Crash controversial?

Also no offense but Master Chief beign long requested is kind of revisonism. People didn't think of him as a possibility until Smash 4's DLC after Cloud's reveal and only enforced later when Banjo got in.

I do however agree on the controversy aspect. Characters that are largely agreed upon to be major contenders in Smash are a rarity nowadays (the last time i saw a character of that magnitude that was unanimously agreed to be seen as expected and wanted was Inkling)

The history of Crash and Smash is interesting, same with Chief. Both are kind of like Banjo in that they've been wanted forever but it's been with caution. Crash has been reasonably wanted since after Melee and Chief around Brawl but up until literally this past year most people didn't think they had a chance in Hell. Now a lot of stuff has actually lined up for them to the point where "oh ****, these guys could actually happen." It's like how Cloud and Ryu were predominantly disregarded until they actually happened.

On the topic of Crash, I speak as someone that's more or less followed Smash speculation since 2002 and people taking Crash seriously as a potential Smash character is VERY recent. Even when Crash was getting GBA exclusives and stopped being a Sony exclusive, it was an idea that barely anyone seemed to seriously entertain until the N-Sane Trilogy hit the Switch. Chief is similar in that he was considered a pipe dream until Nintendo and Microsoft started getting super buddy buddy last year. Honestly, of my predictions, Dante falls into this too because he's yet another character that people have half jokingly suggested forever but only very recently have become realistic.

 

[MattX20]

If we do get another Western 3rd party character in Smash, it looks more and more like we'll get Crash, Chief, or possibly Rayman given Ubisoft's involvement

 

[Polarthief]

If we do get another Western 3rd party character in Smash, it looks more and more like we'll get Crash, Chief, or possibly Rayman given Ubisoft's involvement

Rayman looks way less likely given Byleth's addition of 2 Ubisoft costumes. Idk, just seems odd if they knew ahead of time (they would *ABSOLUTELY* know who DLC 11 was before Byleth came out FYI) that Rayman/any Ubisoft rep was gonna be in FP2 at some point, why would you put out those costumes for DLC 5?

MC also seems less likely to me because that's Microsoft's big rep, and they're a console competitor. BK is one thing, but we didn't even get Rare Replay on Switch, many of those games being Nintendo exclusives back in the day. I don't see Halo/MC coming anytime soon.

Crash has no real evidence, but does have the N-Sane Trilogy on Switch. He also has no counter-evidence like Chief and Rayman has some small bits of. If we were only getting one of the three, Crash seems the most likely.

I'm not saying we *can't* get Rayman/MC, but they do have some thing going against them right now.


... but at least we're getting Geno, cuz he's definitely in.

 

[MattX20]

I've a hard time believing we would have to wait til July or August for FP7's reveal trailer given the E3 Direct being cancelled. One thing I know about Nintendo is that even though this is the last wave of DLC, they still need to sell the pass, and ARMS alone won't be enough.

 

[HudU]

Ive looked into a lot of what the source code is, and its really interesting. Documentation on various consoles and more. Also there are 3ds debug builds of Pokemon and the distribution events. I also got a lot of them to run on a retail 3ds.

 

[Polarthief]

I've a hard time believing we would have to wait til July or August for FP7's reveal trailer given the E3 Direct being cancelled. One thing I know about Nintendo is that even though this is the last wave of DLC, they still need to sell the pass, and ARMS alone won't be enough.

Yeah I don't either. Even if there's not a trailer, there's no way we're gonna go half a year with one reveal.

Also there are 3ds debug builds of Pokemon and the distribution events. I also got a lot of them to run on a retail 3ds.

Of SwSh? Who would have guessed it would be a 3DS game originally? *totally and most definitely shocked face (/s)*

Unless you meant Gen 6/7, but I'm still convinced of the above, haha.

 

[Firox]

Of SwSh? Who would have guessed it would be a 3DS game originally? *totally and most definitely shocked face (/s)*

Unless you meant Gen 6/7, but I'm still convinced of the above, haha.

LOL Seriously though, to this day I have no idea how people can play apologist for Gamefreak's BS when it comes to the graphics and animation of SwSh. Absolutely laughable.

 

[CannonStreak]

I saw the code leak thing yesterday. I can’t wait to see what is shown. What are the odds it will show Fighters Pass 2?

 

[T2by4]

I saw the code leak thing yesterday. I can’t wait to see what is shown. What are the odds it will show Fighters Pass 2?

Zero

 

[CannonStreak]

Zero

Why do you say that?

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

Why do you say that?

It's mainly from the N64-Wii era. I highly doubt anything would leak from recent years.

 

[CannonStreak]

It's mainly from the N64-Wii era. I highly doubt anything would leak from recent years.

Then why do I remember the guy who posted that say something about knowing the Fighters Pass soon, if I am not mistaken? Was he mistaken about that?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then why do I remember the guy who posted that say something about knowing the Fighters Pass soon, if I am not mistaken? Was he mistaken about that?

That was basically his theory.

Do note the person who hacked the database was caught and jailed. People hacking the database to get later information is not impossible, but it's highly unlikely. There's a good reason not do it right now.

The current information available won't have any Fighter's Pass stuff, yes.

It's not as simple as "nope", cause the situation is a bit more complicate than that.

 

[CannonStreak]

That was basically his theory.

Do note the person who hacked the database was caught and jailed. People hacking the database to get later information is not impossible, but it's highly unlikely. There's a good reason not do it right now.

The current information available won't have any Fighter's Pass stuff, yes.

It's not as simple as "nope", cause the situation is a bit more complicate than that.

Theory, huh? I thought that as well. I wasn’t really denying that no FP2 would be included.

So the guy got caught? Guess he got what was coming to him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Theory, huh? I thought that as well. I wasn’t really denying this.

So the guy got caught? Guess he got what was coming to him.

Yep. Whether people emulate the roms found or emulate the idea he had to hack the base, well...

Who knows. I mean, it's safe to say people want to know old beta information. Ironically the information alone isn't that big of a deal, but making roms as well as hacking is the problem. It's not exactly an NDA situation here either. So people knowing more of beta content isn't something to "protect" law-wise.

What'd have been nice is if Nintendo just eventually started giving us beta information videos or allowed that information to be given to us. Not the roms themselves, obviously. That's different. It's also complicated cause roms are legally dubious in how they work. Sometimes even having a rom of a game you own can be treated as "illegal". Not much they could do either way to show off the information themselves.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, just a month away from.....probably a series of shadowdropped announcements instead of a Direct. Either way, just hang in there a bit longer, guys!

 

[Icewolff92]

Of SwSh? Who would have guessed it would be a 3DS game originally? *totally and most definitely shocked face (/s)*

It would have been an impressive 3DS game, but as a Switch game, its mediocre at best xD

 

[Polarthief]

So, just a month away from.....probably a series of shadowdropped announcements instead of a Direct. Either way, just hang in there a bit longer, guys!

I'm really hoping for less if possible. Just drop some stuff, Nintendo. Please don't make us wait another month and, lord help us, even past that. I've been waiting basically 11 months for some good info. I'm starving at this point. Sept 2019 and March 2020 did nothing to satisfy.

It would have been an impressive 3DS game, but as a Switch game, its mediocre at best xD

I don't want to derail the discussion to continue on the controversial nature of Gen 8, but I will simply disagree with you since Gen 7 was quite mediocre and also on the 3DS. That's all I'll say here.

 

[Deleted member]

The news about The Nintendo Wii source codes, 3DS files and Pokémon files being hacked is nuts. Hopefully it gets resolved. But yikes nuts. I don’t think anything about the Fighters Pass 2 characters will get revealed and I hope it doesn’t. All the best to Nintendo I’m sure they’ll get this fixed.

 

[Dukefire]

With how the internet is constantly trying to find the answer to the remaining Challengers (including the unknown ARMS rep coming in June), Nintendo and Sakurai are keeping it sealed tight until they are ready.

 

[Qeomash]

It's not exactly an NDA situation here either. So people knowing more of beta content isn't something to "protect" law-wise.

it still is an NDA situation because the old, "unused" beta builds and source code are still Nintendo's property. They were obtained through a hosting company, and you can be sure that that company signed an NDA with Nintendo prior to hosting the archive files for them. If it was a company employee who broke in and stole the information, the company is directly culpable in that and could be sued. If that company was hacked and the files obtained that way, the company is still culpable to a degree because they failed to secure the files properly.

In this instance, the NIntendo Ninjas will go at the company with chainsaws, even if this is a fairly benign leak in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Polarthief]

I don’t think anything about the Fighters Pass 2 characters will get revealed and I hope it doesn’t.

With how the internet is constantly trying to find the answer to the remaining Challengers (including the unknown ARMS rep coming in June), Nintendo and Sakurai are keeping it sealed tight until they are ready.

At absolute worst, code names could be leaked, but I doubt anyone at Nintendo/Sakurai's team would be stupid enough to have the characters in their build literally named what they are.

Plus it's not like we're gonna know who is what, especially after the code names from FP1 were leaked. I'm sure they might call Geno "Pretty Pink Princess" or something totally not-at-all pointing to him as a result.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I mean I get if people want to find out characters early. But hopefully we can find that out when they are revealed to be shown but that’s how I see it.

 

[Qeomash]

At absolute worst, code names could be leaked, but I doubt anyone at Nintendo/Sakurai's team would be stupid enough to have the characters in their build literally named what they are.

Plus it's not like we're gonna know who is what, especially after the code names from FP1 were leaked. I'm sure they might call Geno "Pretty Pink Princess" or something totally not-at-all pointing to him as a result.

I hope the ARMs rep's codename is "legs".

 

[CannonStreak]

The news about The Nintendo Wii source codes, 3DS files and Pokémon files being hacked is nuts. Hopefully it gets resolved. But yikes nuts. I don’t think anything about the Fighters Pass 2 characters will get revealed and I hope it doesn’t. All the best to Nintendo I’m sure they’ll get this fixed.

About Fighters Pass 2, if you’re lucky, whoever does leak it, if it gets leaked, might get arrested like the N64 to Wii source code guy.

 

[Polarthief]

I hope the ARMs rep's codename is "legs".

Mettaton, is that you?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

it still is an NDA situation because the old, "unused" beta builds and source code are still Nintendo's property. They were obtained through a hosting company, and you can be sure that that company signed an NDA with Nintendo prior to hosting the archive files for them. If it was a company employee who broke in and stole the information, the company is directly culpable in that and could be sued. If that company was hacked and the files obtained that way, the company is still culpable to a degree because they failed to secure the files properly.

In this instance, the NIntendo Ninjas will go at the company with chainsaws, even if this is a fairly benign leak in the grand scheme of things.

This is only the company's fault if specifically an employee leaked it from the database. They are under NDA.

Hackers don't count for an NDA factor. They didn't sign anything.

What is happening is a copyright issue. Nintendo has to protect their IP at any time it is used in an unauthorized manner or risk losing it. This is how copyright works and what makes it a terribly designed law. Basically all the leak is, since an employee didn't actually leak it, is a hacker breaking the copyright law.

What the company website agreed to is to keep the data secret. Nintendo could easily remove that for the IP's they own and let beta content be known without issues. Any other company(say Rareware, or now Microsoft basically) would have to agree to that before the hosting company is allowed to post it online publicly. The sites who host their data are under NDA, but not some random yahoo on the internet. Kind of have to sign an NDA to be under it. Reviewers are under NDA too, which is the reason they get the actual product early. They're outright signing an agreement. Though to be fair, an NDA can sometimes be more "my word", but I doubt they let that slide in legal court anyway. You need to physically sign it for obvious reasons. Evidence goes both ways, heh.

A big confusion people have is that talking about products you know of before they're released is some NDA issue. No. You are not under NDA whatsoever. If you see leaked content, you can say whatever you want. Nintendo didn't make you sign anything. However, they need to shut this down as is to protect their IP too. For other websites, they're aware of the copyright issues as is, so act based upon that factor since they could be in trouble. The legal issues is literally the leaked data and roms, which are all copyright infringements. There's no content for an NDA issue when the company itself is not at fault. If it was an employee, you'd be right. But since it was an unrelated hacker, they aren't breaking an NDA. They're stealing Nintendo's property.