Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Lagguino]

No wait, GALAXY BRAIN TIME: His Stand is the 7 stars from Paper Mario.

Me: Proceeds to put Guido Geno from my for fun list to my must draw (and also fun) list.

 

[Geno Boost]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

 

[Polarthief]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

That's not bad for a very, VERY early alpha build, but it'll probs get ****canned before it gets finished if word gets out.
PS: Oof, that Smithy final boss song doesn't sound as good when slowed down even slightly. It really bugged me.

 

[cmbsfm]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

Cease and Desist in 3,2...

 

[MarioTime]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

Ninteninjas are on their way......

 

[MisterMike]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

Huh, not bad for an early build. SFX could use some turning down, though.

That's not bad for a very, VERY early alpha build, but it'll probs get ****canned before it gets finished if word gets out.
PS: Oof, that Smithy final boss song doesn't sound as good when slowed down even slightly. It really bugged me.

Cease and Desist in 3,2...

Ninteninjas are on their way......

What are you talking about? Nintendo ain't gonna take this down. They only do that to fangames that could impact their future products, like AM2R or Super Mario 64 HD. Unless they're making another Mario RPG or remaking SMRPG, I doubt they'll care. Then again, I've been wrong about stuff like this before, so ehh.

 

[MarioTime]

What are you talking about? Nintendo ain't gonna take this down. They only do that to fangames that could impact their future products, like AM2R or Super Mario 64 HD. Unless they're making another Mario RPG or remaking SMRPG, I doubt they'll care. Then again, I've been wrong about stuff like this before, so ehh.

In 2017 some dude was making a sequel to Super Mario RPG with a kickstarter and everything but Nintendo told him to stop via phone call so he had to cancel it

(But others said it was a scam so Idk)

 

[Deleted member]

In 2017 some dude was making a sequel to Super Mario RPG with a kickstarter and everything but Nintendo told him to stop via phone call so he had to cancel it

(But others said it was a scam so Idk)

the issue there was that he was asking for money

 

[Lyncario]

In 2017 some dude was making a sequel to Super Mario RPG with a kickstarter and everything but Nintendo told him to stop via phone call so he had to cancel it

(But others said it was a scam so Idk)

I mean, fundraising over an already existing property is very illegal. Even ZUN shot down a fan project that used fundraising, despite him being extremly chill with copyright.

 

[Loliko YnT]

I don't think Nintendo could shut down that project actually. As long as it's completely free , I only see Square taking action.

But it's still in the weird "you're using characters that belong to Nintendo even if you remake a game made by Square" middle ground. So Nintendo could still say "lol no".

 

[SSGuy]

I mean, Nintendo could still pull the plug since it's regarding Mario. I am not entirely sure how it works considering there are a ton of fan projects that Nintendo leaves up while ignoring others. (Still no idea why SSF2 gets to live)

Does Nintendo pulling a C&D on anything really correlate to 'we are about to release something so let's make sure no one misinterprets which one is our product' kind of deal?

 

[Polarthief]

I don't think Nintendo could shut down that project actually. As long as it's completely free , I only see Square taking action.

It still uses their (Nintendo's) IPs of Mario, Bowser, Peach, Toad, and many other characters (tons of enemies) and even places (such as "Mushroom Kingdom"). Nintendo is absolutely within legal rights to take it down even if it's not "their" game.

 

[Loliko YnT]

It still uses their (Nintendo's) IPs of Mario, Bowser, Peach, Toad, and many other characters (tons of enemies) and even places (such as "Mushroom Kingdom"). Nintendo is absolutely within legal rights to take it down even if it's not "their" game.

I don't think Nintendo could shut down that project actually. As long as it's completely free , I only see Square taking action.

But it's still in the weird "you're using characters that belong to Nintendo even if you remake a game made by Square" middle ground. So Nintendo could still say "lol no".

 

[Polarthief]

Yeah sorry, I woke up, went on my phone, and just saw bits and pieces, haha.

Also to add, they could remove it not just for that, but because Geno is in it...

 

[Deleted member]

Go Geno! Hoping for the best!

 

[TriggerX]

I'm surprised that we're just now seeing someone attempt to remake SMRPG in 3D since its such a basic RPG. Maybe the models weren't as readily available, IDK.
I wouldn't worry too much about Nintendo taking down a project like that. CryZenx has been using unreal for awhile now and has been displaying a lot of well done projects that involve both Mario and Legend of Zelda.

Unless the creator attempts to make money or receive donations of some kind, it will likely just fly under Nintendo's radar.

 

[Polarthief]

I'm surprised that we're just now seeing someone attempt to remake SMRPG in 3D since its such a basic RPG

You know, I had a whole post to respond to this, but I'll just say that Platforming and Timed Hits made SMRPG anything but a "basic RPG", especially in the 90s. Hell to this day it's still pretty unique in many ways. I don't know of many platforming JRPGs and still too many come out without timed hits (or "Action Commands").

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean, Nintendo could still pull the plug since it's regarding Mario. I am not entirely sure how it works considering there are a ton of fan projects that Nintendo leaves up while ignoring others. (Still no idea why SSF2 gets to live)

Does Nintendo pulling a C&D on anything really correlate to 'we are about to release something so let's make sure no one misinterprets which one is our product' kind of deal?

Those that use actual Nintendo assets are typically targeted first. For example, that's why Project M was pretty much on Nintendo's **** list for ages until they were tired of tolerating it. C&D's predominantly have to do with IP protection so the more it could it could actually compete or even pass as an actual Nintendo game, the more likely Nintendo's going to kick in someone's door and threaten to spank their ass red over it.

 

[TriggerX]

You know, I had a whole post to respond to this, but I'll just say that Platforming and Timed Hits made SMRPG anything but a "basic RPG", especially in the 90s. Hell to this day it's still pretty unique in many ways. I don't know of many platforming JRPGs and still too many come out without timed hits (or "Action Commands").

Let me clarify, by today's standard as far as RPG games go, the "systems" that make up SMRPG are fairly basic. The basic mechanic for "Timed Hits" are still implemented in more clever ways for current action RPG games.
I will definitely agree at the time of its release it was unique, but at this point in time the features offered in SMRPG have been refined in many titles.

Edit:
What I will say about SMRPG in comparison to modern games is that many recent titles still struggle to break up repetitive game-play in a meaningful way. SMRPG had a lot of mini games/puzzles that used existing commands/and actions in a creative way that helped break up a lot of the repetitiveness you find in RPGs.

I do feel like current games, RPG games in particular struggle with this. And even when they do introduce mini games into the thick of it all, the mini games are so out of place in context to what the flow of the game had been up until that point.

 

[Deleted member]

Huh that’s something.

 

[Polarthief]

The basic mechanic for "Timed Hits" are still implemented in more clever ways for current action RPG games.

That's also comparing an apple to a pineapple. They both have "apple" in the name, but are completely different fruits. An ARPG is nothing remotely like a JRPG. Then you also have the ultra-lazy QTEs which randomly pick a button and randomly pick a time that generally makes no sense in context, and you feel like an idiot for missing it, but how can you be blamed when you didn't know the button you had to press in advance? Honestly, even most ARPGs fail massively when trying to implement "Timed Hits", and in other cases, like doing combos or special moves, I don't consider that the same mechanic at all.

While yes the thought is basic, it was still revolutionary back in the 90s and because very few games even implement them, it's still quite unique and special in its own right.

As for why people haven't tried to make it 3D before, well it was already technically kinda 3D because of how the game was laid out. It also looks like way more effort than it's worth TBH if that alpha is any indication, plus it'll likely just get shut down when/if it starts to pick up.

I do feel like current games, RPG games in particular struggle with this. And even when they do introduce mini games into the thick of it all, the mini games are so out of place in context to what the flow of the game had been up until that point.

That's because it's usually forced as a gimmick (like 99% of Wii titles and most games Shigeru has worked on in the last decade). Developers need look no further than the Mario RPG games (SMRPG, PM, M&L) to see how to do it right and try to go even further. Toby Fox did that with Undertale, specifically only when defending against attacks, turning it into a bullet hell-esque minigame that even relates to the story (the heart icon you control being your "SOUL" and you even see other hearts like it along the way). Honestly, I do enjoy JRPGs, but they can quickly become boring and tedious when your best option is to "basic attack" or "spam best spell", and then just wait for your next turn. Bravely Default at least gives you a lot more strategy in that you can take up to 3 additional turns (but then you lose those next 3 turns) which is an awesome system and overall concept, but still had the same problem of "wait for your turn".

Then you also have the platforming aspect (again, just in relation to JRPGs, not ARPGs) that makes exploring way more enjoyable. Instead of "stand in spot to have a command pop up so you can do a thing", which is basically what FFX was, which made paths either super obvious (because you could only walk) or very cryptic (because it didn't make sense), you can just jump to where you want to go. It's crazy how the addition of a dedicated jump button can change your viewpoint so much. Basic concept? Sure, but still revolutionary compared to other games.

Idk it just makes me go nuts that we have this game, FROM THE 90s, and it's now 2020, and developers still over 20 years later don't understand that there's so many ways you can spice up a JRPG. Pokemon is like a god-tier example of a game that just gets more and more stale over the years because the entire concept of Pokemon is catching and building a team, but the battles themselves? My GOD are they boring. They were fine back on the Gameboy, but the game itself hasn't changed since. You wait an eternity for your turn, and when you do finally go, you pick the same, best, likely super-effective, move over and over til the battle is over. For the record, I've been a long-standing massive Pokemon fan, but playing the actual game again with Gen 7 semi-recently and even worse when quitting after 1 badge in Gen 8, I've just come to realize that the main "gameplay" of battling is very... not good. It's 2020 and we've come a long way since the 80s, and if your game is still incredibly similar from games of your genre of that era, you're doing something horribly wrong.

But yeah this got a bit off-tangent, but it really does blow my mind that in 20 freaking 20, most developers can't figure out how to keep a JRPG unique and also fun from beginning to end, either by keeping them engaged in the base gameplay (SMRPG, figuring out new timed hits of new attacks and spells or better exploration such as platforming), or just keep adding new things as the game goes on (which is what I felt like DQ11 kept doing and it honestly worked out pretty well there)... or coming up with something else new (like Bravely Default, though it too still suffers from the other problems).

 

[SSGuy]

Another week down. The wait to June is going to be insufferable. I need a sign that shows the ARMS character is one of the spirits. I lost almost all hope with Geno as a spirit but this is probably the first time I think he could have an opportunity.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Someone is remaking SMRPG in 3D!!!

Where is this beautiful person so that we might throw our stimulus money at them?

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Where is this beautiful person so that we might throw our stimulus money at them?

It was me. Totally me. Not saying this because I want people to throw money at me. Nope not at all. Would never do that. Why would you suggest such a thing?

 

[MisterMike]

It was me. Totally me. Not saying this because I want people to throw money at me. Nope not at all. Would never do that. Why would you suggest such a thing?

Completely unrelated, but I just did one of those ancestry things and I found out that I'm about 51% related to you by blood. Again, completely unrelated factoid I wanted to throw out there. Carry on.

 

[Polarthief]

I lost almost all hope with Geno as a spirit

But the copyright takedowns! The costume's still AWOL! All the other reasons!

Don't lose hope, he's in. He's gotta be.

 

[axel_]

If there's anything I learned about Geno in Smash over the span of 13 years, it's that the only real leaks for him are the ones that don't actually have him.

Like, seriously. Notice how every big leak that actually had Geno featured prominently (Grinch, 99% of Nintendo Direct 4chan garbage) were all fake, while the ones that are very likely real (Mii list, Cacomallow) hint at it, but only ever show separate content.

 

[Powerman293]

But the copyright takedowns! The costume's still AWOL! All the other reasons!

Don't lose hope, he's in. He's gotta be.

Or it could be that Nintendo is really anal about Geno for no reason at all. I mean, maybe it's just that some new employee at the Nintendo C&D office or whatever went beyond thier powers and didn't know about SMRPG's weird legal status?

Assuming Geno would come out, why would they copystrike music for a character not scheduled to come out for more then a year after then? It's one thing to take down a Metroid 2 remake when there's a Nintendo one already in the works. Or Undertale music within 6 months of a Mii costume already made. It's another for DLC that might have just started development and is kept secret from the rest of Nintendo due to fear of leaks to have music struck THAT EARLY.

 

[MattX20]

So, any new developments?

 

[Malo Mart]

If there's anything I learned about Geno in Smash over the span of 13 years, it's that the only real leaks for him are the ones that don't actually have him.

Like, seriously. Notice how every big leak that actually had Geno featured prominently (Grinch, 99% of Nintendo Direct 4chan garbage) were all fake, while the ones that are very likely real (Mii list, Cacomallow) hint at it, but only ever show separate content.

It's funny how that works really. Thinking about it, in the same way that Geno's character is enveloped by mystery and elusiveness in SMRPG, so too is the speculation surrounding him in Smash. The only believable leaks that point towards him, including the indisputably real™ Cacomallow, only really imply him indirectly through Mallow and Smithy costumes, and all the boatloads of others made throughout the years have been debunked sooner or later. Even if that's just coincidental, it's honestly very fitting for Geno and for that i feel like his reveal will be a lot more impactful than it would had he just been leaked outright imo.

... alright, back to Discord i go.

 

[Polarthief]

Or it could be that Nintendo is really anal about Geno for no reason at all. I mean, maybe it's just that some new employee at the Nintendo C&D office or whatever went beyond thier powers and didn't know about SMRPG's weird legal status?

As well as BK and Undertale too, despite both those games getting content, hmmm...

Assuming Geno would come out, why would they copystrike music for a character not scheduled to come out for more then a year after then?

Makes more people forget by the time the character comes out. Also both BK and Undertale takedowns were about 9(?) months prior to reveals.

It's another for DLC that might have just started development and is kept secret from the rest of Nintendo due to fear of leaks to have music struck THAT EARLY.

I get that, but it still doesn't explain much. If the takedowns were just a mistake and has nothing to do with Geno, it's just, the timing is so suspect. Why now? Why not other songs? Why not other *games*, especially ones actually owned by Nintendo?

PS: I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate

 

[SSGuy]

If there's anything I learned about Geno in Smash over the span of 13 years, it's that the only real leaks for him are the ones that don't actually have him.

Like, seriously. Notice how every big leak that actually had Geno featured prominently (Grinch, 99% of Nintendo Direct 4chan garbage) were all fake, while the ones that are very likely real (Mii list, Cacomallow) hint at it, but only ever show separate content.

Do you guys remember how the Geno Mii and Chocobo hat were leaked a day before reveal?

If only we could get this kind of leak for a character and for it to be real.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you guys remember how the Geno Mii and Chocobo hat were leaked a day before reveal?

If only we could get this kind of leak for a character and for it to be real.

I mean, we kind of did get that for Castlevania music and had the SNK logo leak, so it has happened before.

Now we hopefully will have it happen again~

 

[Lagguino]

May i present to you all.

Guido Geno.

 

[Polarthief]

If only we could get this kind of leak for a character and for it to be real.

Unless you don't count SNK (I don't really since that was just a big oopsie by Nintendo), Banjo-Kazooie was leaked like a week prior to E3 last year, though I recall it being like a day or two.

Regardless, I've been burned by enough leaks, so even a "no he's definitely happening" leak of Geno would still keep me from believing it. I do fully believe he's coming; I've said daily that he is, but I just can't blindly believe leaks anymore. Even that Paper Mario 3 rumor that keeps circling, as much as I want it, as much as I think it can happen, I'm still like "eh, it's just a rumor".

 

[MisterMike]

May i present to you all.

Guido Geno.

OH MY GOD IT'S PERFECT.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

As well as BK and Undertale too, despite both those games getting content, hmmm...



Makes more people forget by the time the character comes out. Also both BK and Undertale takedowns were about 9(?) months prior to reveals.




I get that, but it still doesn't explain much. If the takedowns were just a mistake and has nothing to do with Geno, it's just, the timing is so suspect. Why now? Why not other songs? Why not other *games*, especially ones actually owned by Nintendo?

PS: I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate

Yeah I mean those takedowns could just be a mistake (somehow?) or could mean something that we hope it doesn't mean (first premium costume with 2 songs), but you're right that other takedowns around that time did mean something. There is more of an inclination that they point to a character since it was 2 songs and SE's tendency is to include exactly that many songs per character and that premium costumes thus far have not had more than one. More to the point of why I'm willing to entertain it tho is because we have no idea how the timing of any of these things in development work. We've suggested that Mii costumes (and by extension other bonus content) could be worked on far in advance and so I don't see an issue with a group of music takedowns with some resulting in something sooner and the rest later. Same with the Mii costume list. I don't think we can argue that since something hasn't resulted from those yet they mean nothing because we have no concept of what is an appropriate timeframe for these things to come to fruition. I know I've argued in the past that I don't buy into the music takedowns or Mii costume list and really I still don't, but it's more because they're just too uncertain for me to entertain seriously as is. In my eyes Banjo, the fact that the ARMS rep is very likely to be a promotion, and the timing of when work on FP2 started are the big factors that make me feel like Geno has a huge chance, but I still consider other factors even if I put them in my "uncertain category" and I just wanted to point out that your points were right and that I doubt the timing of things is as much of an issue as people make it out to be.

 

[Loliko YnT]

What I find interesting about the song takedown is :

-They took 2 songs , the same ammount Square seem to give for DLC (But maybe the 8 tracks selection for Hero could nullify that point ?)
-They took down Forest Maze , the most well remembered SMRPG track , and Fight against an armed boss... The second already fit well for fighting , and the first one is almost guaranteed to get remixed if we get Geno.
-They didn't took down stuff like "Fight against Monsters" or other fights music tracks.

Granted , all of this might just be youtube or Nintendo being drunk.

 

[YsDisciple]

Guys, imagine around May, another image and short video clip get leaked, and curiously enough we have Ken yet again doing the same taunt from the two former notorious leaks (the first Ken leak prior to his official reveal, and the CacoMallow leak); however he's on what seems to be a new stage (forest-themed), and we see the Mallow hat, AND what seems to be a never before seen model of Geno IN ACTION (in the short video clip, and posing alongside Ken on the image). Oh, and the leak ends up going live on May 13th.

Just imagine. Not saying it'll happen (most likely it won't but, the release from this eternal struggle would feel ever closer).

 

[Polarthief]

What I find interesting about the song takedown is :

-They took 2 songs , the same ammount Square seem to give for DLC (But maybe the 8 tracks selection for Hero could nullify that point ?)
-They took down Forest Maze , the most well remembered SMRPG track , and Fight against an armed boss... The second already fit well for fighting , and the first one is almost guaranteed to get remixed if we get Geno.
-They didn't took down stuff like "Fight against Monsters" or other fights music tracks.

Granted , all of this might just be youtube or Nintendo being drunk.

To add to this:
- The timing is suspect: During E3 last year, which is when they were doing FP2 stuff.
- Nintendo took down the songs, not Square.
- This is all after Nintendo calmed down taking fair use stuff down.
- They ONLY took down these songs, and no others.
- Other content in Smash have gotten takedowns such as BK and Sans.

There's just way, WAY too many "coincidences" behind the takedowns. It can't just be a coincidence. That would be even more weird than Nintendo not picking a spirit fighter for the ARMS rep.