Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[axel_]

CP 10 = *thinks* uh... Adol Christin (ok, this one's wishful thinking but HOPEFULLY...? )

I do think people sleep on Adol's chances.

 

[pinshadow]

Someone I talk to has theories on bonus characters and where they think Season 2 is at right now. They gave me the okay to share them so I'll try to summarize their main talking points:

-Season 2 was greenlit in June/July 2019.

-Banjo's presentation was recorded in early August according to Sakurai. Says Season 2 had already began development at that time. He says this at about 23:52 in the presentation.

-Terry was basically in a presentable state in August and Byleth in November.

-Including Plant, 6 characters were completed to a presentable degree in about a year. This also included bonus game modes, something Sakurai said there wouldn't be more of in Banjo's presentation.

-The SMRPG costumes were first heard in July along with Banjo's. This potentially suggests that these costumes had already been worked on since Banjo's presentation was recorded in August. May imply that costumes can be finished well in advance and simply "saved" for later. This could suggest Cacomallow leaking in November wouldn't be unreasonable.

-In December 2018, we know Plant, Joker, and Hero were being worked on, heavily suggesting the same number was being worked in December 2019, especially with confirmation of Byleth's presentation being recorded in November.

-This all heavily suggests that 6 and 7 have likely been ready to present for awhile now and probably more if both had technically had at least some work on their packs done since last August.

-This follows a similar timeline to Season 1 since Banjo was decided E3 2018, suggesting 6, 7, and 8 will be in a presentable state by E3.

-Without modes and Season 2 beginning work last summer, this could potentially suggest that they are further ahead on things than originally thought.

-They made the suggestion that bonuses would be in the middle instead of at the end because any bonus characters probably wouldn't come with additional content and "would be kind of a weak way to end DLC."

-This suggestion kind of adds up when you consider new modes stopped with Banjo in Season 1. Going with their theory, bonus characters would most likely be added between 6 and 9.

What do you all think? Based on this, bonuses would probably be announced in the "Sakurai Presents" presentations instead of Directs, just like the modes and Mii costumes were. We already have 6 coming in June so I'm not banking too hard on a bonus announcement then given the proximity to the E3 Direct. Based on the typical gaps, 7's presentation would be August/September and potentially the first "realistic" opportunity for a bonus announcement, especially in the light that Joker, not Plant, was the first DLC character to add bonus modes.

I know people will disagree with me on this but I'm hard betting against the idea of any bonus characters, atleast while Pass 2 is ongoing. I don't even really understand where it's coming from? I feel like we've been over the idea that Sakurai has made it clear these are the last six characters and that the team is working on nothing else.

 

[axel_]

I know people will disagree with me on this but I'm hard betting against the idea of any bonus characters, atleast while Pass 2 is ongoing. I don't even really understand where it's coming from? I feel like we've been over the idea that Sakurai has made it clear these are the last six characters and that the team is working on nothing else.

You aren't alone. Especially the wording of this theory suggesting the idea of it being more than one bonus, which at that point should just be another pass.

 

[StarLight42]

I don’t think there are bonus characters

but if there are, Geno is absolutely one of them. Because that knocks out the necessity for the obligatory SMRPG stage

 

[axel_]

Alright I just remembered something about this whole "bonus character" thing that made me reconsider my stance: the website.

They wouldn't make this entire section just for a single character, would they?

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Alright I just remembered something about this whole "bonus character" thing that made me reconsider my stance: the website.

View attachment 268338

They wouldn't make this entire section just for a single character, would they?

I still think that if we get more bonuses they're probably going to be mostly 1st party. Granted, it doesn't help that -while 3rd part- Geno's situation is a complex one. I also think that this is where we'll see the Iwata tribute fighter is that oft speculated character happens, not that I have a shred of any evidence to suggest such a thing.

 

[axel_]

I still think that if we get more bonuses they're probably going to be mostly 1st party. Granted, it doesn't help that -while 3rd part- Geno's situation is a complex one. I also think that this is where we'll see the Iwata tribute fighter is that oft speculated character happens, not that I have a shred of any evidence to suggest such a thing.

There's really only one character I can see being a bonus. One that wouldn't really have any good potential for a full Challenger Pack with a stage, some music, or a Spirit Board. One that has some sort of backing to be worth selling after what ever bombshell of an ending we get to this pass.

Spoiler: The Mark of the Beast

 

[AEMehr]

Alright I just remembered something about this whole "bonus character" thing that made me reconsider my stance: the website.

View attachment 268338

They wouldn't make this entire section just for a single character, would they?

I mean they needed a section to put an individual character, so they really could have made an entire section for a single character.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Alright I just remembered something about this whole "bonus character" thing that made me reconsider my stance: the website.

View attachment 268338

They wouldn't make this entire section just for a single character, would they?

I'm one to believe that (probably the Arms Rep) was planned to be another individual fighter before FP2 was a thing. They got tacked on at the beginning of FP2 though so this section became a bit pointless.

 

[Polarthief]

Bonus - December/January (Geno)

There's no way a third party character will be a bonus. That's way too expensive to not make any money on (assuming the bonus is for everyone, not only people who bought FP2 and they'll be free for awhile). If anything, Waluigi fits the bill much better.

I know people will disagree with me on this but I'm hard betting against the idea of any bonus characters, atleast while Pass 2 is ongoing. I don't even really understand where it's coming from? I feel like we've been over the idea that Sakurai has made it clear these are the last six characters and that the team is working on nothing else.

TBH I'm still skeptical of the bonuses. Not completely against it, but I'm really unsure on it.

I don’t think there are bonus characters

but if there are, Geno is absolutely one of them. Because that knocks out the necessity for the obligatory SMRPG stage

They won't make a 3rd party a bonus character (set the first reply in this post).

I also don't get this mentality. There's *PLENTY* of stages you could do. If anything, this is a much better mentality for Waluigi than Geno. He's first party and would be much harder to bring a stage with (to a lesser degree, songs too).

You aren't alone. Especially the wording of this theory suggesting the idea of it being more than one bonus, which at that point should just be another pass.

Not if it's only like 2. I could see Waluigi easily being a bonus. I could also see more echoes coming since it's really weird they unveiled echoes in this game and gave us 2.5 (Chrom is the half) echoes in base and then no more. I could see Birdo as one of them for an echo to Yoshi. Also, if they add more costumes to people, Boshi could be an alt of Yoshi.

There's really only one character I can see being a bonus. One that wouldn't really have any good potential for a full Challenger Pack with a stage, some music, or a Spirit Board. One that has some sort of backing to be worth selling after what ever bombshell of an ending we get to this pass.

Spoiler: The Mark of the Beast

View attachment 268339

By far the best that fits. People say Geno is hard to make a stage for? Nah man, do that with Waluigi, along with bringing songs for someone who has not had his own game. Yeah there's some Waluigi themed things like Waluigi Pinball in Mario Kart (is that track in the game already?) and Waluigi Island from Mario Party 3 (that song would likely need a remix too), but I don't see anything Waluigi-themed immediately becoming a stage and with a lack of first party tracks too... Yeah it's a lot more of a stretch to see him as a DLC pack and not a bonus.

I mean they needed a section to put an individual character, so they really could have made an entire section for a single character,

Yeah, this isn't quite the same as Super Mario Maker 2 having a section called "Extra Game StyleS" and only having 1.
(speaking of which, if we don't get another game style at E3, I'm giving up hope for that game ever getting another)

 

[Loliko YnT]

CP 11 = Dante (would be a nice nod to the end of Smash 4s DLC cycle, which then was Bayonetta)

However, I fear that somewhere around CP 10, or 11... the character might be 1st party.

... I really hope you're saying that in "they come from the same genre" , not that Sakurai will say "Hey guys , remember Sm4sh Bayonetta ?"

---

Also , i think the "bonus" character is kind of already in the pass. Nobody would have complained if we got 5 characters , but they revealed the 6th character pack like... Well it was a bonus , just that one thing more.

So yeah , here's hoping for Geno. I'm not going to try to predict everyone , considering stuff like... Well... ... Heck , even was still a big surprise , despise all the little things that kept adding up to him. So yeah , i just go with the "They'll add at least one favorite , and Geno fit that criteria , so here's hoping".
But If I could say one thing , it's that i feel that this pass will give a second chance to franchises already represented in Smash. Maybe we'll get Isaac , or Shantae , or Rayman , as examples , since ARMS was revisited.

 

[Polarthief]

Also , i think the "bonus" character is kind of already in the pass. Nobody would have complained if we got 5 characters , but they revealed the 6th character pack like... Well it was a bonus , just that one thing more.

That would be the case if we didn't pay an extra $5 for this pass. FP1 was $25 ($5 per character). FP2 is $30 (again, $5 per character). Hard to be a "bonus" when you're paying for it.

 

[Shadow Star DX]

Hey guys! I'm finally back to post a bunch of Geno-related art, since the pandemic has given me tons of free time to work on it and I desperately need some social activity.

First is a drawing of Geno and the "Genette" character I drew a while back, when someone brought up the subject of Sailor Moon. Not sure if anyone liked her design, but I liked her enough to draw her again with slightly more Mario-ish proportions. This is also my first time drawing Geno proper in years; there's definitely room for improvement, but I liked it enough to make it my new avatar:

Geno and Genette Link (In case image doesn't load)

The next set of drawings is actually related to a character that Griselda introduced a while back, Geppetto; The sword-wielding possessed puppet that's kinda like an Anti-Geno, whose motivation revolves around him rebelling against Star Road. I ended up liking the idea so much that I drew fanart of Geppetto back then. But now, I wanted to expand upon that idea even more, and came up with the idea of giving Geppetto a "team" of sorts, to fight for his cause, and also fill the roles an RPG party would have, with Geppetto being the Swordfighter. So I created 2 original characters of my own that are inspired by both Geno and Geppetto; Introducing: Nette and Xeno (names pending)

Nette and Xeno Link (In case image doesn't load)

I also have a brief description of both characters:

Spoiler: Character Descriptions Here

Nette
(Name derived from Marionette. One of the names that was suggested for Geppetto when he was first introduced)

Nette, unlike Geppetto, is not possessed by a star spirit, but is instead a marionette brought to life by Geppetto to serve him. She acts as the "Black Mage" of the group, specializing in elemental and illusion/trick magic, but lacking in any kind of physical attack (aside from thwacking people with her wand). She also possesses the ability to control her opponents like puppets, forcing them to fight against their allies, but is limited to controlling only one person at a time.

Personality-wise, she is an energetic, chaotic individual that has a habit of not following orders and doing things as she pleases. This is due to her having been a child's toy before being brought to life by Geppetto, and despises the idea of ever being "controlled" again like she was. Despite her behavior, she still intends to help Geppetto with his plans, as she feels she owes him for her freedom. She does however take a liking to Geno and has an almost creepy desire to make him her own personal toy. (It almost echoes how we all want to play as Geno in Smash, doesn't it?)

Xeno
(Another name that was suggested for Geppetto. Is actually more fitting of this character, due to the lore I gave him)

Like Nette, Xeno isn't possessed by a star spirit. Acting as the "Thief/Ninja" of the group, he is a living weapon created by the Smithy Gang to act as their version of Geno, after being inspired by his combat abilities. Because of this, he is actually made of light metal, unlike Geppetto, Nette and Geno (who are all made of wood), and is closer to being a robot than a puppet or doll. Since he isn't possessed by a star spirit, he lacks the ability to use energy-based attacks like Geno can, and instead, he relies on a huge arsenal of physical weapons built into him that are based on various ninja weapons and tools, like Kunai, Shuriken, Explosives and the Kusarigama he is wielding in the drawing. He is armed to the teeth and is incredibly agile and stealthy.

Despite being created to be a living weapon, he lacks the desire to fight and often tries to avoid conflict; treating fighting as "too troublesome" or "annoying", and will only act if completely necessary or if he has something to gain from it, like a mercenary of sorts. He's often very gloomy and anti-social, contrasting Nette's high-energy and talkative nature.

These are, of course, just rough designs and ideas for the characters, so I may change them down the line, based on any feedback they may get. I apologize if it's a bit off-topic, expanding upon the idea that Griselda started, but I see potential in it, even if to only fantasize about the role these kinds of characters could have in a fan-made Super Mario RPG 2. If nothing else, I find it a fun way to help pass the time while we wait for Geno's fate to be revealed. If anyone's interested, feel free to share some input, ideas or design some characters of your own (For example, I was thinking there should be a "White Mage" on Geppetto's team as well, but I couldn't think of a design or concept; So that's open for someone to create). And for those who can't draw, I'd be willing to lend my art skills to help create concepts. Who knows? Maybe this could end up inspiring something much bigger. Whatever the case, I hope you guys enjoy the art, at least. ^ ^;;

 

[OffBi]

Hey guys! I'm finally back to post a bunch of Geno-related art, since the pandemic has given me tons of free time to work on it and I desperately need some social activity.

First is a drawing of Geno and the "Genette" character I drew a while back, when someone brought up the subject of Sailor Moon. Not sure if anyone liked her design, but I liked her enough to draw her again with slightly more Mario-ish proportions. This is also my first time drawing Geno proper in years; there's definitely room for improvement, but I liked it enough to make it my new avatar:

Geno and Genette Link (In case image doesn't load)

The next set of drawings is actually related to a character that Griselda introduced a while back, Geppetto; The sword-wielding possessed puppet that's kinda like an Anti-Geno, whose motivation revolves around him rebelling against Star Road. I ended up liking the idea so much that I drew fanart of Geppetto back then. But now, I wanted to expand upon that idea even more, and came up with the idea of giving Geppetto a "team" of sorts, to fight for his cause, and also fill the roles an RPG party would have, with Geppetto being the Swordfighter. So I created 2 original characters of my own that are inspired by both Geno and Geppetto; Introducing: Nette and Xeno (names pending)

Nette and Xeno Link (In case image doesn't load)

I also have a brief description of both characters:

Spoiler: Character Descriptions Here

Nette
(Name derived from Marionette. One of the names that was suggested for Geppetto when he was first introduced)

Nette, unlike Geppetto, is not possessed by a star spirit, but is instead a marionette brought to life by Geppetto to serve him. She acts as the "Black Mage" of the group, specializing in elemental and illusion/trick magic, but lacking in any kind of physical attack (aside from thwacking people with her wand). She also possesses the ability to control her opponents like puppets, forcing them to fight against their allies, but is limited to controlling only one person at a time.

Personality-wise, she is an energetic, chaotic individual that has a habit of not following orders and doing things as she pleases. This is due to her having been a child's toy before being brought to life by Geppetto, and despises the idea of ever being "controlled" again like she was. Despite her behavior, she still intends to help Geppetto with his plans, as she feels she owes him for her freedom. She does however take a liking to Geno and has an almost creepy desire to make him her own personal toy. (It almost echoes how we all want to play as Geno in Smash, doesn't it?)

Xeno
(Another name that was suggested for Geppetto. Is actually more fitting of this character, due to the lore I gave him)

Like Nette, Xeno isn't possessed by a star spirit. Acting as the "Thief/Ninja" of the group, he is a living weapon created by the Smithy Gang to act as their version of Geno, after being inspired by his combat abilities. Because of this, he is actually made of light metal, unlike Geppetto, Nette and Geno (who are all made of wood), and is closer to being a robot than a puppet or doll. Since he isn't possessed by a star spirit, he lacks the ability to use energy-based attacks like Geno can, and instead, he relies on a huge arsenal of physical weapons built into him that are based on various ninja weapons and tools, like Kunai, Shuriken, Explosives and the Kusarigama he is wielding in the drawing. He is armed to the teeth and is incredibly agile and stealthy.

Despite being created to be a living weapon, he lacks the desire to fight and often tries to avoid conflict; treating fighting as "too troublesome" or "annoying", and will only act if completely necessary or if he has something to gain from it, like a mercenary of sorts. He's often very gloomy and anti-social, contrasting Nette's high-energy and talkative nature.

These are, of course, just rough designs and ideas for the characters, so I may change them down the line, based on any feedback they may get. I apologize if it's a bit off-topic, expanding upon the idea that Griselda started, but I see potential in it, even if to only fantasize about the role these kinds of characters could have in a fan-made Super Mario RPG 2. If nothing else, I find it a fun way to help pass the time while we wait for Geno's fate to be revealed. If anyone's interested, feel free to share some input, ideas or design some characters of your own (For example, I was thinking there should be a "White Mage" on Geppetto's team as well, but I couldn't think of a design or concept; So that's open for someone to create). And for those who can't draw, I'd be willing to lend my art skills to help create concepts. Who knows? Maybe this could end up inspiring something much bigger. Whatever the case, I hope you guys enjoy the art, at least. ^ ^;;

Sick dude!

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I suppose there could be bonus fighters, but Sakurai has stressed several times that these are the last characters and hasn't he specifically mentioned the number 6? I don't think Sakurai is trying to misdirect us with that I think he's just trying to help us avoid disappoint. I could see him maybe springing one surprise bonus like Waluigi or the Iwata tribute towards the end maybe but it seems unlikely. I agree the character would probably have to be first party if they did add bonus characters and if there are bonus character(s) it only increases Geno's chances to get in and gives me more characters to play so I'm all for it but I don't think it is happening. Honestly, if they were going to do more bonus characters, Byleth should have been one and I have a hard time getting past the fact they wanted to unnecessarily add a stage for Three Houses when it's a beautiful but not a very good stage. I know they REALLY wanted to shill Three Houses, but Byleth really makes me 99% sure no bonuses are coming. That being said, I think ARMS deserves a pass spot because we have no stage and don't have much content for it so I don't think it would have been a bonus character. I hope your guy is right Fatman but I don't see it happening.

 

[Polarthief]

I suppose there could be bonus fighters, but Sakurai has stressed several times that these are the last characters

That's irrelevant though. Why would he ruin the surprise by mentioning them? I don't know if I believe there will or won't be bonus characters, but if there will be, it would be really dumb to deconfirm them just to be like "SURPRISE HERE'S ONE!". That'd be the same as springing Goku or any other anime character after he explicitly said "it is impossible for manga characters to join" (though if he's not on board for future Smash games, they could break that rule?).

Also, he didn't explicitly say no bonus characters or even that these are the last characters, just that these characters are "truly extra" and there's "no future plans for more fighters", but there also wasn't future plans back when FP1 was talked about, so you could say FP1 was also the "last characters", until it wasn't. Hell if they get talking next month, we could have an FP3 on our hands eventually. It kinda depends on how much DLC Nintendo wants to do for Smash and if Sakurai wants to keep working on it or not, and given his workaholic nature, I wouldn't be surprised if there would be an FP3, or more premium (i.e., costs money) DLC characters in the future past FP2.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I know people will disagree with me on this but I'm hard betting against the idea of any bonus characters, atleast while Pass 2 is ongoing. I don't even really understand where it's coming from? I feel like we've been over the idea that Sakurai has made it clear these are the last six characters and that the team is working on nothing else.

The idea comes from a number of places:

-The 16 dummy slots in the game's data in January 2019.

-Rumors of at least one happening.

-Conjecture on Plant being the only individual DLC so far.

All in all, it's something to talk about during the upcoming two month gap between announcements.

 

[MattX20]

The idea comes from a number of places:

-The 16 dummy slots in the game's data in January 2019.

-Rumors of at least one happening.

-Conjecture on Plant being the only individual DLC so far.

All in all, it's something to talk about during the upcoming two month gap between announcements.

That, and any hints towards who our ARMS rep turns out to be.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

In terms of bonus fighters, I'm betting we're getting ONE echo fighter, but that's it. I'd love to be wrong and get more!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Plus, I'm also of the mind that we're going to get surprises of some kind. Like I said yesterday, Fighter's Pass came with modes and upgrades to existing modes. I'm pretty adamant about how how we're not likely to get a Season 3 but I also look at how long Season 2 has "been in the oven" and how we don't have anything to show for it yet. Greenlit last June/July, development starting soon after according to Sakurai and now, roughly 7 months after Season 2 was formally announced, we merely have a hint of what's next with another 2 months to go before the first character is even announced. We're basically looking at 11 months of Season 2 having work done on it before we see ONE character. Like I talked about yesterday, Sakurai had 6 presentable in about the same timespan. If we go with those same parameters, it's been at least 9 months since Season 2 started development and we've seen 2 new characters... from Season 1. That's part of why I entertain bonuses or them straight up doing dumps where they basically announce all of Season 2 in two major outtings, one being E3.

 

[Griselda]

The apparent lack of any further new modes is still rather disappointing, since that just means that Boss Battles missed the bus. (Beyond there being little chance of story expansions, etc.) Geno Whirling every boss into oblivion in succession without having to go into WoL would've been fun.

 

[MattX20]

The only additional mode that I wanted to come back at this point was Break the Targets, but other than that, I would be just content with a playable Geno.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

That's irrelevant though. Why would he ruin the surprise by mentioning them? I don't know if I believe there will or won't be bonus characters, but if there will be, it would be really dumb to deconfirm them just to be like "SURPRISE HERE'S ONE!". That'd be the same as springing Goku or any other anime character after he explicitly said "it is impossible for manga characters to join" (though if he's not on board for future Smash games, they could break that rule?).

Also, he didn't explicitly say no bonus characters or even that these are the last characters, just that these characters are "truly extra" and there's "no future plans for more fighters", but there also wasn't future plans back when FP1 was talked about, so you could say FP1 was also the "last characters", until it wasn't. Hell if they get talking next month, we could have an FP3 on our hands eventually. It kinda depends on how much DLC Nintendo wants to do for Smash and if Sakurai wants to keep working on it or not, and given his workaholic nature, I wouldn't be surprised if there would be an FP3, or more premium (i.e., costs money) DLC characters in the future past FP2.

I think you misunderstood me. Although your second paragraph does address some of my points. I still doubt that we would get bonus character(s). I never said he should outright say there would be bonuses obviously that would be stupid.

 

[TriggerX]

16 dummy slots could really just be that “ dummy slots”.
If characters are using some kind of ID to reference them in the code it’s probably just done as a precautionary measure so they don’t have to add them later. Adding a single ID every time would be too much of a give away that a character is coming, and it also allows them to work on multiple characters during the same time frame a lot easier. You would risk too many conflicts in code if 2 very different characters kept referencing the same “ID”.

I suppose you never really know though.

As far as a bonus character being a Nintendo character I don’t think that has to be the case.
It doesn’t sound like anyone is 100% on how the contracts were written. It’s possible they have the ability to use a lot of these spirits/ assist trophies like Geno freely. So a promotion is possible.
Take Alucard for example, it sounds like they were on the fence about making him playable. It’s an assumption on my part, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they at least drafted move sets for him.

 

[StarLight42]

Polarthief I had sort of a meltdown after Byleth’s release because I was annoyed with the way FP2 was set up. I thought we were gonna get two or so bonuses for sure but making them regular fighter pass slots was a hit to some of my most wanted characters because they aren’t greatly “fit” for such a style. In hindsight, I guess Waluigi could’ve come with the Rainbow Road stage from Mario Kart 7 and Geno could get his own Forest Maze stage.

But to be honest, I still think the FM stage as an idea is super, super ambitious. I think it would easily be the most difficult stage to plan out so far with Sakurai having to take an isometric “3D” game and convert it into a Smash stage somehow. It would be cool for sure, i’m not denying that, but Mario has always seemed like the type of franchise that needs more Fighters and music, not necessarily stages. I think Geno fits the bonus category waaaaay better than an avg. fighter pass slot. Just look at how many people were predicting him as “bonus after the pass”. I don’t care what form he comes in, but I think one style suits him a little better in terms of realizability.

 

[Sigran101]

Why does this thread talk more about Waluigi than Geno? Like actually?

 

[waterhasataste]

Someone I talk to has theories on bonus characters and where they think Season 2 is at right now. They gave me the okay to share them so I'll try to summarize their main talking points:

-Season 2 was greenlit in June/July 2019.

-Banjo's presentation was recorded in early August according to Sakurai. Says Season 2 had already began development at that time. He says this at about 23:52 in the presentation.

-Terry was basically in a presentable state in August and Byleth in November.

-Including Plant, 6 characters were completed to a presentable degree in about a year. This also included bonus game modes, something Sakurai said there wouldn't be more of in Banjo's presentation.

-The SMRPG costumes were first heard in July along with Banjo's. This potentially suggests that these costumes had already been worked on since Banjo's presentation was recorded in August. May imply that costumes can be finished well in advance and simply "saved" for later. This could suggest Cacomallow leaking in November wouldn't be unreasonable.

-In December 2018, we know Plant, Joker, and Hero were being worked on, heavily suggesting the same number was being worked in December 2019, especially with confirmation of Byleth's presentation being recorded in November.

-This all heavily suggests that 6 and 7 have likely been ready to present for awhile now and probably more if both had technically had at least some work on their packs done since last August.

-This follows a similar timeline to Season 1 since Banjo was decided E3 2018, suggesting 6, 7, and 8 will be in a presentable state by E3.

-Without modes and Season 2 beginning work last summer, this could potentially suggest that they are further ahead on things than originally thought.

-They made the suggestion that bonuses would be in the middle instead of at the end because any bonus characters probably wouldn't come with additional content and "would be kind of a weak way to end DLC."

-This suggestion kind of adds up when you consider new modes stopped with Banjo in Season 1. Going with their theory, bonus characters would most likely be added between 6 and 9.

What do you all think? Based on this, bonuses would probably be announced in the "Sakurai Presents" presentations instead of Directs, just like the modes and Mii costumes were. We already have 6 coming in June so I'm not banking too hard on a bonus announcement then given the proximity to the E3 Direct. Based on the typical gaps, 7's presentation would be August/September and potentially the first "realistic" opportunity for a bonus announcement, especially in the light that Joker, not Plant, was the first DLC character to add bonus modes.

I will say, if there are indeed more than one, I do think they would have to be in between. Once DLC 11 is out, I think Sakurai wants to be done and not have to drag this out longer than he needs to. Though if it is just one bonus character, then it being at the end would work I think, regardless if there's more content or not (last characters tend to be underwhelming anyways)

More bonus characters do make sense, especially since echo fighters exist and aren't extremely complicated to develop. Even characters like Waluigi I'd argue, probably wouldn't be extremely difficult to make compared to other fighters. He already has a model and animations they could tweak to make a full on character

Also, if we are getting bonuses, it could explain why the end date for this pass is longer than the first one was. 2 full years for 6 characters seems a bit odd, especially when they managed to release 5 last year. But if there's a handful of bonuses snuck in there, then yeah, stretching that deadline to 2 years makes sense. You can essentially draw out the Smash DLC for 2 years without putting in a hard amount of effort into making a 3rd pass. It would be a lot easier for Sakurai to do some easy to develop bonuses on the side than another full on pass in other words

Though at the same time. I also think we could just be getting 6 and that's all. Of course the December 2021 deadline could just be a placeholder, and maybe echos + other bonuses would take more time than I think. So maybe they'll just stick to these 6. I don't know, I think it can swing ether way

 

[StarLight42]

Why does this thread talk more about Waluigi than Geno? Like actually?

overlap between fanbases

i get annoyed when Doomguy or crash become the center of attention on this thread too, but I understand why that is.

fanbase overlap isn’t even bad to begin with because it flat out proves that geno fans aren’t in this “bubble” that people claim we are where we only want geno and nothing else

 

[valkiriforce]

If I could have only one character, it'd be Geno...as much as I'd like to have Doomguy, Crash Bandicoot, Waluigi or any other characters, I can wait if I have to. The priority for me is Geno after it's been well over 10 years of wanting him for Smash.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why does this thread talk more about Waluigi than Geno? Like actually?

Based on the popularity of this thread, we've largely expended the most common topics concerning Geno so people move onto other characters on their lists to keep conversation going. "Why not go to other threads?" Not as busy and we're one of the few character fanbases on this site that's arguably an actual community and have long-standing relationships with each other. My reason for going off topic here are that people unironically hate me most other places so I tread carefully and usually pack my bags once it becomes pretty obvious I'm no longer welcome. You all handle things well, even if I present things that you don't agree with or see as likely.

Also, because everything's dead, I decided to go back and read old articles and I came across this gem:

https://www.siliconera.com/masahiro...imates-hero-dlc-director-philosophy-and-more/

"Originally, there were only two Heroes set to join Smash Ultimate, being Erdrick and Eleven. But Horii later said it would be fine to have four Heroes join."

Not sure if this has been covered but it's evidence supporting that "the Seven Squares" back in the summer of 2018 was an exhaustive list of the characters that Square was interested in potentially seeing playable in Ultimate. As a recap, "the Seven Squares" were: Erdrick, Luminary, Slime, Crono, Sora, Sephiroth, and Geno.

 

[MattX20]

Based on the popularity of this thread, we've largely expended the most common topics concerning Geno so people move onto other characters on their lists to keep conversation going. "Why not go to other threads?" Not as busy and we're one of the few character fanbases on this site that's arguably an actual community and have long-standing relationships with each other. My reason for going off topic here are that people unironically hate me most other places so I tread carefully and usually pack my bags once it becomes pretty obvious I'm no longer welcome. You all handle things well, even if I present things that you don't agree with or see as likely.

Yep, that and we had to wait almost 7 months for new information for the second fighter pass, and it didn't help matters that we've exhausted almost every possible discussion or point on Geno.

 

[Antho]

You know, I just realized something. What if the reason the pass’s deadline is at the end of 2021 is BECAUSE we’re getting bonus fighters? I mean, since we got 6 DLC characters released in almost the span of a year, it seems absurd that they would put the deadline to the end of 2021 for 6 more, unless bonus fighters were ALSO announced with 7, 8, 9, and 10, which would also fill all of the dummy slots and not bring any with 6 or 11, which are the first and last characters of the pass respectively.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Also, because everything's dead, I decided to go back and read old articles and I came across this gem:

https://www.siliconera.com/masahiro...imates-hero-dlc-director-philosophy-and-more/

"Originally, there were only two Heroes set to join Smash Ultimate, being Erdrick and Eleven. But Horii later said it would be fine to have four Heroes join."

Not sure if this has been covered but it's evidence supporting that "the Seven Squares" back in the summer of 2018 was an exhaustive list of the characters that Square was interested in potentially seeing playable in Ultimate. As a recap, "the Seven Squares" were: Erdrick, Luminary, Slime, Crono, Sora, Sephiroth, and Geno.

Since I hear that interview my opinions over Vergeben were better

Yep, that and we had to wait almost 7 months for new information for the second fighter pass, and it didn't help matters that we've exhausted almost every possible discussion or point on Geno.

June is in 2 months, we aren't going to wait that much, perfectly we can see Arms and CP7 (Fatman think we are getting MimMin, Geno and Crash All at E3)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I brought up that old Hero article because it brings up a number of things that are particularly helpful to Geno:

-Notes that Square wasn't super on board with Dragon Quest in Smash until they saw how serious and dedicated Sakurai was about it. Shows that if Sakurai wants something bad enough, people aren't likely to turn him down.

-Gives credence to the rumors that Nintendo has at the very least approached Disney about Sora. Once again, Nintendo going out of its way to try to snag certain fan requests.

-With the Seven Squares presumably being an exhaustive list, boils down the purely Square characters Square itself was interested in being in Smash as Geno and Sephiroth. As a side note, Hero's Mii costumes lacked purely Square characters and were on the "Enix" side of things.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

You know, I just realized something. What if the reason the pass’s deadline is at the end of 2021 is BECAUSE we’re getting bonus fighters? I mean, since we got 6 DLC characters released in almost the span of a year, it seems absurd that they would put the deadline to the end of 2021 for 6 more, unless bonus fighters were ALSO announced with 7, 8, 9, and 10, which would also fill all of the dummy slots and not bring any with 6 or 11, which are the first and last characters of the pass respectively.

The deadline of the 1st Fighter Pass was February 2020 and byleth came out in January, therefore it can be advanced and also on the Japanese site it is approximate and more details of dates will be given in the future

 

[RuffyYoshi]

Not sure if this has been covered but it's evidence supporting that "the Seven Squares" back in the summer of 2018 was an exhaustive list of the characters that Square was interested in potentially seeing playable in Ultimate. As a recap, "the Seven Squares" were: Erdrick, Luminary, Slime, Crono, Sora, Sephiroth, and Geno.

Well then I'd say our chance is pretty high cuz:
Erdrick and Luminary + Slime - check + part of a taunt
Crono - nope (swordie)
Sepiroth - nope (longer swordie)
Sora - nope (disney tax)
Geno - HELL YEA (highly requested, signs show he's coming, missing costume, cut fighter from brawl like ARMS was cut from ultimate and ARMS got a second chance so it's time)

 

[Let Geno Smash]

I brought up that old Hero article because it brings up a number of things that are particularly helpful to Geno:

-Notes that Square wasn't super on board with Dragon Quest in Smash until they saw how serious and dedicated Sakurai was about it. Shows that if Sakurai wants something bad enough, people aren't likely to turn him down.

-Gives credence to the rumors that Nintendo has at the very least approached Disney about Sora. Once again, Nintendo going out of its way to try to snag certain fan requests.

-With the Seven Squares presumably being an exhaustive list, boils down the purely Square characters Square itself was interested in being in Smash as Geno and Sephiroth. As a side note, Hero's Mii costumes lacked purely Square characters and were on the "Enix" side of things.

So you think that Square Enix is interested in having Geno in smash and since we know that Sakurai has loved Geno from Brawl, they could let him use it because they let him use Hero when he recognized that he had wanted to see Dragon Quest represented for years and that his friends They will be only squaresoft characters, which leaves me thinking that their miis will be: Smithy, Mallow, Chocobo, Sephiroth and Crono (I can't see Nintendo struggling to have kingdom hearts content and only use a sora mii) and how are the SquareEnix characters in which Square is interested others like Lara Croft, Neku Sakuraba, 2B and characters from Bravely or Octopath have low chances, for me it makes sense, I always thought that chrono would be mii

Well then I'd say our chance is pretty high cuz:
Erdrick and Luminary + Slime - check + part of a taunt
Crono - nope (swordie)
Sepiroth - nope (longer swordie)
Sora - nope (disney tax)
Geno - HELL YEA (highly requested, signs show he's coming, missing costume, cut fighter from brawl like ARMS was cut from ultimate and ARMS got a second chance so it's time)

Disney confirm they want sora in smash

 

[Springwood Slasher]

I appreciate fatman giving a recap on the Seven Squares theory as that was before my time deep diving into smash speculation.

I agree with RuffyYoshi that I think our chances for Geno are pretty high. Do I worry about Crono or Sephiroth usurping Geno and getting in? Absolutely. But it’s very promising that Geno is even on Square’s radar.

also as much as I love Sora - if Disney did indeed block Sora from getting into smash then this is one of those rare instances where corporate greed actually works in our favour!

 

[Polarthief]

I think you misunderstood me.

You said you doubted bonus characters because he said "these are the last characters" (which he never even said).

I still doubt that we would get bonus character(s).

I still do because reasons I don't know yet.

But to be honest, I still think the FM stage as an idea is super, super ambitious. I think it would easily be the most difficult stage to plan out so far with Sakurai having to take an isometric “3D” game and convert it into a Smash stage somehow. It would be cool for sure, i’m not denying that, but Mario has always seemed like the type of franchise that needs more Fighters and music, not necessarily stages. I think Geno fits the bonus category waaaaay better than an avg. fighter pass slot. Just look at how many people were predicting him as “bonus after the pass”. I don’t care what form he comes in, but I think one style suits him a little better in terms of realizability.

You could just do a tour/medley of stages, like how Magicant had bits and pieces of Earthbound in the background, mixed with the DQ stage that has you flying around (but the actual platform is stationary), so you could visit places like Mushroom Kingdom, Forest Maze (obs), Nimbus Land, etc.

Not sure if this has been covered but it's evidence supporting that "the Seven Squares" back in the summer of 2018 was an exhaustive list of the characters that Square was interested in potentially seeing playable in Ultimate. As a recap, "the Seven Squares" were: Erdrick, Luminary, Slime, Crono, Sora, Sephiroth, and Geno.

Well 2 of them are already playable, 1 I do not see happening because... it's a ****ing slime, 1 I could see, 1 I definitely see if Disney gets on board (please don't), 1 I definitely see and would be fuming with anger if it happened (really? a second FF7 character, Square?), and 1 that should be happening.

You know, I just realized something. What if the reason the pass’s deadline is at the end of 2021 is BECAUSE we’re getting bonus fighters? I mean, since we got 6 DLC characters released in almost the span of a year, it seems absurd that they would put the deadline to the end of 2021 for 6 more, unless bonus fighters were ALSO announced with 7, 8, 9, and 10, which would also fill all of the dummy slots and not bring any with 6 or 11, which are the first and last characters of the pass respectively.

That's actually not a bad point to consider...

-With the Seven Squares presumably being an exhaustive list, boils down the purely Square characters Square itself was interested in being in Smash as Geno and Sephiroth. As a side note, Hero's Mii costumes lacked purely Square characters and were on the "Enix" side of things.

I doubt Chrono but I wouldn't completely count him out. As for Sephiroth, I had a massive rant post ready to post, but I decided not to, so I'll sum it up with a TL;DR of bullet points:
- Disappointing if they continue their FF7 circlejerk, more disappointing than Byleth just taking up an FP1 slot.
- Deconfirms Geno.
- Please don't do it Square.
TBH I'm really not that worried because LOOK AT ALL THE EVIDENCE (in my sig) that points to Geno. Like seriously, if that's all just super coincidental, even the copyright takedowns, I will refuse to believe any evidence for anything unless it ever becomes official, and I don't just mean with leaks to video games.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

So you think that Square Enix is interested in having Geno in smash and since we know that Sakurai has loved Geno from Brawl, they could let him use it because they let him use Hero when he recognized that he had wanted to see Dragon Quest represented for years and that his friends They will be only squaresoft characters, which leaves me thinking that their miis will be: Smithy, Mallow, Chocobo, Sephiroth and Crono (I can't see Nintendo struggling to have kingdom hearts content and only use a sora mii) and how are the SquareEnix characters in which Square is interested others like Lara Croft, Neku Sakuraba, 2B and characters from Bravely or Octopath have low chances, for me it makes sense, I always thought that chrono would be mii


Disney confirm they want sora in smash

Oh, well good but we then run into another problem:

Sora needs those two for proper representation, and they're not gonna be cheap. ^^;