Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Polarthief]

Oh, well good but we then run into another problem:

View attachment 268364

Sora needs those two for proper representation, and they're not gonna be cheap. ^^;

Yeah, there's no way you can just have Sora without them (Sora's not Sora without them), and to not only get Sora but Dallant and Goomby on top of that... it's like, would it even be worth the cost? I don't think they (Nintendo) would even make a profit and instead make a loss at that point, unless Disney *actually* was pretty generous on the deal (spoiler: they won't be). Like I just don't see that happening.

 

[Deleted member]

I think people are underestimating Sora’s chances because he’s owned by Disney. Thanos is in Fortnite and Wreck it Ralph is in Sonic Racing. This may show Disney isn’t really stingy with their IP. But at the same time, Sakurai doesn’t want non gaming characters to be included and if he wants to add Disney characters to accurately represents KH, he may as well do so. If he can’t add Goku because of licensing issues because how Smash is a different case compare to other games when adding 4th party characters, then that’s a major block. It’s possible that Disney maybe difficult to work with if they’re very particular and want a ton of doe. Geno on the other hand, requires waaaay less effort than Sora and less money too.

 

[Deleted member]

Well this is all interesting.

Dry good points for sure.

 

[Polarthief]

I think people are underestimating Sora’s chances because he’s owned by Disney. Thanos is in Fortnite and Wreck it Ralph is in Sonic Racing.

I actually had no idea; those are good points, but I wonder if Nintendo considers the total profit there and would go for it or not.
That said, Geno's got insane chances and I do think he's the frontrunner purely based on the evidence.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Geppetto

Wait a minute... Geppetto... Pinocchio... Ge... no...

OH MY GOD

 

[MattX20]

I forget, but did Geno have a sleeping animation in Super Mario RPG?

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Oh, well good but we then run into another problem:

View attachment 268364

Sora needs those two for proper representation, and they're not gonna be cheap. ^^;

Disney confirms they need 3 thing for let nintendo to use sora
-Disney needs to know that sora is requested by fans, that is done there are thousands of ballots in which sora is the first place and hashtag # Sora 4 Smash has been trending on Twitter like 3 times
- They have to know that the Kingdom Hearts executives agree, Hashimoto already said that Twitter who loves the idea of seeing Sora and Nomura said that he and Sakurai became very close in what they negotiated to Cloud in smash 4
- The hard part is going, they need sakurai to create the entire challenger pack (sora's moveset, miis, spirits, classic route, color palette, logo of the saga) without using anything from disney

 

[MisterMike]

I forget, but did Geno have a sleeping animation in Super Mario RPG?

Do you mean in terms of him having a unique animation, or one that uses existing sprites? In Geno's case, he does have a sleeping animation, but it uses his 'looking down' sprite with an added snot bubble to denote him sleeping.

 

[Polarthief]

Disney confirms they need 3 thing for let nintendo to use sora

You forgot number 4: The gigantic sack of money with a "$" on it (or I guess a "Yen" symbol instead).

 

[MattX20]

Do you mean in terms of him having a unique animation, or one that uses existing sprites? In Geno's case, he does have a sleeping animation, but it uses his 'looking down' sprite with an added snot bubble to denote him sleeping.

Oh, okay. I guess that's how Smash will interpret it

 

[waterhasataste]

You know, I just realized something. What if the reason the pass’s deadline is at the end of 2021 is BECAUSE we’re getting bonus fighters? I mean, since we got 6 DLC characters released in almost the span of a year, it seems absurd that they would put the deadline to the end of 2021 for 6 more, unless bonus fighters were ALSO announced with 7, 8, 9, and 10, which would also fill all of the dummy slots and not bring any with 6 or 11, which are the first and last characters of the pass respectively.

I thought this as well. I think this point is fun to think about

Look at it this way. I think between making 2 full on fighters passes or just making 1 with a couple of easy to make bonus fighters in there, I feel like the latter option makes more sense because you can save money and resources while still giving the game strong support for 2 years without wide gaps in content updates

Though the few holes in this, is that Nintendo can't be predicted, and maybe they will stretch these 6 for 2 years, or that the December 2021 is just a placeholder. I think it's a fun theory ether way though and could explain some things

 

[MattX20]

My personal feeling is that the 6 we're getting are the last ones. I'm not overly confident in bonus fighters right now, but I'm not opposed to additional ones as long as Sakurai gets a much needed break

 

[TriggerX]

Disney confirms they need 3 thing for let nintendo to use sora
-Disney needs to know that sora is requested by fans, that is done there are thousands of ballots in which sora is the first place and hashtag # Sora 4 Smash has been trending on Twitter like 3 times
- They have to know that the Kingdom Hearts executives agree, Hashimoto already said that Twitter who loves the idea of seeing Sora and Nomura said that he and Sakurai became very close in what they negotiated to Cloud in smash 4
- The hard part is going, they need sakurai to create the entire challenger pack (sora's moveset, miis, spirits, classic route, color palette, logo of the saga) without using anything from disney

This thread brings up Sora quite a bit.
Personally I’m a fan of both, what I would say is that it sounds like most people on this thread probably haven’t played through more than 1 Kh game, if any.

Dream Drop Distance is an entire game without Donald and Goofy as allies.It actually doesn’t really mention them too often. Kh also has Original Content that spans multiple titles.
Other than the key chain on his signature weapon there isn’t really a need to bring up any Disney related elements.

The amount of original content KH has to reference from is a lot greater than what SMRPG has to offer as well so it’s weird thinking that Sakurai would have any issues at all putting a challenger pack together for him.

I will admit that Disney could pose a bit of an obstacle, but maybe not. They are pushing out a lot of their licenses recently to other developers.

 

[StrangeKitten]

This thread brings up Sora quite a bit.
Personally I’m a fan of both, what I would say is that it sounds like most people on this thread probably haven’t played through more than 1 Kh game, if any.

Dream Drop Distance is an entire game without Donald and Goofy as allies.It actually doesn’t really mention them too often. Kh also has Original Content that spans multiple titles.
Other than the key chain on his signature weapon there isn’t really a need to bring up any Disney related elements.

The amount of original content KH has to reference from is a lot greater than what SMRPG has to offer as well so it’s weird thinking that Sakurai would have any issues at all putting a challenger pack together for him.

I will admit that Disney could pose a bit of an obstacle, but maybe not. They are pushing out a lot of their licenses recently to other developers.

I agree, also a fan of Sora. But to the keychain, Sora wields multiple Keyblades in KH, so if a tiny Mickey is an issue, they could just give him a Smash-original Keyblade similar to his most famous one, with a Smash ball keychain.

 

[axel_]

I doubt Chrono but I wouldn't completely count him out.

The Chrono series has been abandoned for literal decades, so yeah I don't really expect Crono to get anything.

 

[MattX20]

Hmm...were there any other custom or unique animations that could be used for Geno besides taunts?

 

[MisterMike]

Hmm...were there any other custom or unique animations that could be used for Geno besides taunts?

Well there's this:

Spoiler

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I

I spent way more time on this post than I originally planned to.

• Main Characters
  • Mario: It's a "Mario game", you have him from the start, and he's who you control out of battle (also in battle too!). He also assists Geno once he realizes what's going on.
  • Geno: The major plotline revolves around him since he's trying to fix everything.
• Side Characters
  • Mallow, Bowser, and Peach: Assisting the main characters
  • "Toad": As in the primary Toad who is actually named Toad, as you see him enough and he assists enough that he's basically a side character.
  • Smithy: I mean the entire game is because of him.
• Less Minor But Still Minor Characters
  • Gaz: The owner of "Geno" the doll; some of the plot is re-explained when visiting him again.
  • Croco: Seen enough times and even has a character arc to be here.
  • Booster: More minor than the others, but affects the whole thing with Peach for awhile, enough to where I'd say he's in the "less minor" category.
• Actually Minor Characters: Everyone else because they aren't around long enough/don't affect much. Yeah there's a few like Valentina who actually does some stuff, like how she takes over Nimbus Land, but that doesn't change much of anything outside Nimbus Land and once she's gone... she's gone.

People saying that Geno isn't a/the main character clearly haven't played the game. If it wasn't for him, your story would end after the cake boss in Marrymore and Smithy would have taken over. Oh and Mallow would have buggered off. Or maybe the story would end post-Valentina. One thing's for sure, you'd have no idea what the star pieces do and would have no real need to progress further.

Your post is outstandingly made. Mario and Geno are literally the main characters of SMRPG, both have a focus on the primary storyline. This is why Geno would be the perfect candidate for representing the Mario RPGs because he’s indirectly the main character of SMRPG and represents the first Mario RPG.

However, I would have to disagree with Mallow, Bowser, and Peach being side-characters, but you do have a point when it comes to them being as a supporting character. Out of the three you noted, Mallow seems to be more of a main character than Peach and Bowser. Mallow was the first party member you meet, and his first goal was to get his grandpa’s frog coin back and then find his parents; once the two left to go to Rose Town, Mallow went from being a support character to a main character, followed Mario’s goal since they met each other. If Mallow never wanted to find his parents, well, they never would’ve found a way to get to Bowser’s Keep because they used some bus-cloud to get there.

Bowser and Peach aren’t really important to the story, but I do consider them as main characters. It’s ironic how Geno is indirectly the main character of the game because his goal represents the main plot of the storyline, like you said, and it’s a Mario game; Mario’s the direct main character of the game since he’s the party member you play as, even though his main goal didn’t follow the main plot of the storyline, but it’s still his game.

This is actually why I always roll with Mario, Mallow, and Geno as my team; the three main characters of the story, plus it makes it challenging since the MVP (Peach) isn’t on your team to help heal or one-shot enemies. But I do consider the five as main characters in SMRPG. Other than that, an amazing clarification post you made for pointing the whole “side-character” thing out, much appreciated! I wish I could like your post two times, bud!

 

[Polarthief]

Your post is outstandingly made. Mario and Geno are literally the main characters of SMRPG, both have a focus on the primary storyline. This is why Geno would be the perfect candidate for representing the Mario RPGs because he’s indirectly the main character of SMRPG and represents the first Mario RPG.

For sure. Even if Paper Mario never happens as a character, Geno would indirectly rep it pretty well.

However, I would have to disagree with Mallow, Bowser, and Peach being side-characters, but you do have a point when it comes to them being as a supporting character. Out of the three you noted, Mallow seems to be more of a main character than Peach and Bowser. Mallow was the first party member you meet, and his first goal was to get his grandpa’s frog coin back and then find his parents; once the two left to go to Rose Town, Mallow went from being a support character to a main character, followed Mario’s goal since they met each other. If Mallow never wanted to find his parents, well, they never would’ve found a way to get to Bowser’s Keep because they used some bus-cloud to get there.

Mallow seems like a "main character", and finding his family seems like a major plot point, but it's by no means the major plot. Mario's plot to find Peach was major until it wasn't (when you meet Geno). Honestly though, it depends on what you define as a "main" character. The "side characters" I consider to be very high-up major characters, but aren't the main focal points (which, all three of them are focused for a brief period of time, but none of them are *the* main focus of the game). Mario I would consider a side character if you didn't control him for the entirety of the game and the title didn't literally have "Mario" in it. Everyone talks to him specifically (unless another character pops out of you[?]), so he's pretty high up there. Geno's plot is obviously the main focus.

Bowser and Peach aren’t really important to the story, but I do consider them as main characters.

But I do consider the five as main characters in SMRPG.

Yeah like I said, it's however you want to define them. I consider them (and Mallow) to be "as close to a main character as you can get, but still side in the grand scheme of things", which is why I put them in the side category.

t’s ironic how Geno is indirectly the main character of the game because his goal represents the main plot of the storyline, like you said, and it’s a Mario game; Mario’s the direct main character of the game since he’s the party member you play as, even though his main goal didn’t follow the main plot of the storyline, but it’s still his game.

Yup, exactly.

This is actually why I always roll with Mario, Mallow, and Geno as my team; the three main characters of the story, plus it makes it challenging since the MVP (Peach) isn’t on your team to help heal or one-shot enemies.

If only you could boot the red-hatted man, because I'd probably do it in a heartbeat. Mallow is more magical, and Bowser is more physical. Both are better in some way, but because you're forced to take him and practically forced into Peach, that pretty much leaves the last slot to someone more magical-focused. If I could, I'd prefer Mallow/Peach/Geno, or on some fights, Bowser/Peach/Geno.

Other than that, an amazing clarification post you made for pointing the whole “side-character” thing out, much appreciated! I wish I could like your post two times, bud!

*thumbs up*

 

[MattX20]

Geno's an RPG character in the confines of the Mario universe. Apart from RPGs, Mario is pretty much represented in every iota in the context of Smash.

 

[Droodle]

The Chrono series has been abandoned for literal decades, so yeah I don't really expect Crono to get anything.

I don't think Crono will get in, but this isn't really a valid point. Banjo proves that "dead" series can still get into Smash. The last big Chrono Trigger release was Chrono Trigger DS which came with new content, it released in 2008. The last big B-K release was Nuts and Bolts which also released in 2008. Obviously, one of them is essentially an expanded port, while the other is a brand new game; but no one really like Nuts and Bolts sooo...

What really kills the chance of Crono is the fact that we already have Hero fulfilling a lot of the same rolls, in a lot of ways. Now he could definitely be unique, but it does hurt his chances a ton imo. The best I could see him getting is maybe a mii costume or an upgraded costume. I would be surprised if he gets in before Geno because of this.

In my opinion, these are the most obvious potential picks for the Square Enix rep (in no particular order):

Geno: Duh. There's a good amount of evidence for him; but I wouldn't really call him anywhere near guaranteed. If I was giving a % answer, I would say around 40% of him getting in as the next Square rep.

Tifa: Comes from one of the most iconic games in history. Square's next "big" title, and I doubt Nintendo would be opposed to it unless Square still isn't open to music. The music situation for OG FF7 is due to copyright issues, but I don't know if FF7R would have the same problems. I would say she has around a 30% chance of being the next Square rep.

Sephiroth: Same as above, and on of that is one of the most iconic villains in gaming. His moveset would be tricky to adapt due to his rather large katana, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Regardless, both Geno and Tifa have "simplicity" backing them up. I would say he has a 15% chance of being the next Square rep.

Aside from unconfirmed leaks, all Geno and another FF rep share the same evidence. For Geno, the Geno mii costume did not show up when it made sense to. For FF, the Chocobo mii costume did not show up when it made sense too. There is more unconfirmed leaks pointing towards Geno, but again nothing about those leaks is nearly "definitive" yet. And even then, those unconfirmed leaks mostly just "hint" at Geno rather then explicity stating that he's in.
Another Square rep: In my opinion the "other" square reps I could see happening are Lara Croft, 2B, Neku Sakuraba, and maybe a Bravely character.

Lara Croft is pretty obvious, she is one of, if not the most iconic woman in gaming. Sure, she's more of a playstation icon; but so is Cloud so I don't see why it would stop her.

2B again is a fan-favorite and is also really popular, Square really loves putting her in collabs and Sakurai also likes Yoko Taro's works. The thing that hurts her chances is that she has even less of a "nintendo connection" then Lara Croft.

Neku Sakuraba has the biggest "nintendo connection" here outside of Geno; but he doesn't have Geno's Smash Notoriety or everyone else's general notoriety. That said, there was a leak by Tansut stating that more TWEWY content is coming for the Switch this year, and obviously that content was not shown in the March Direct; leaving the E3 direct and September direct as the last potential places for it to show up this year. Much like DQ 11S, Nintendo helped publish TWEWY Remix outside of Japan; and on top of that TWEWY Remix didn't really do well enough for Square to really greenlight another game by themselves. Perhaps Nintendo is helping publish this new TWEWY content again, which indirectly increases Neku's chances for Smash. He also didn't do THAT bad in pre-release fan polls, as little as they mean.

Also I guess a Bravely rep is possible, considering that that's Square's main franchise for Nintendo; and the development studio for those games seem really close to Nintendo. I think Nintendo also helps publish these games, but I'm not a 100% sure. BD 2 is also a big release for the Switch this year.

Regardless all these final characters make up the last 15% of Square characters that could potentially get into Smash.

So in short, I think Geno has the best shot of getting in as any INDIVIDUAL Square Enix character. However, I think collectively there is a solid shot of another Square Enix character making it in, depending on who Nintendo and Square end up feeling like putting in.

 

[MattX20]

In any case, Geno's chances have been at their absolute strongest in years, and that's a good thing. With just a little over two months left to go, our patience may yet be rewarded after nearly 2 decades of waiting for Geno to return to playable character status

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

You know, one of the things I was thinking about if Geno shows up at any point in this pass as a fighter is how amazing it'll be to see legit fans of Geno freaking out over his inclusion.

I mean it'll be great to see all the regular YouTube reactions we usually get but to see people who have played Super Mario RPG and know well enough about Geno it's gonna be great to see them out there making videos about it. Growing up playing the game for me seems like an almost solitary experience because I either wasn't playing it in front of anybody or didn't get to share it with anyone from beginning to end. It's good to know I'm not alone at experiencing how amazing of a game SMRPG is and it'll be great to see all of our Genobros. and Genogals out there making videos about it. I really hope that time isn't too far off now because it sounds like too great of a thing not to happen at this point for how long we've had to wait for Geno to come back.

It'll be amazing to see papagenos ' reaction if Geno gets a reveal trailer, especially TerminalMontage and BestGuyEver's reactions (not sure if BestGuyEver will do a reaction video, he'll probably just do a Geno worship video for him like he did for Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo).

Fatmanonice , I'd definitely love to see your reaction if Geno gets in. Somebody brought this up a while back, but would it be cool if you recorded your reaction to Geno's reveal trailer if it happens? You could just record the audio, that's it, and use the audio for the exact parts of the trailer you see; combine the audio of your reaction with the reveal trailer.

I forget, but did Geno have a sleeping animation in Super Mario RPG?

If you're talking in battle, he does have the sleep "paralysis" effect.

In the overworld, well... no, but yes. It looks like he does, but he doesn't. At the end of the game where the party watches Exor disintegrate from Bowser's Keep, Geno has a sprite where his puppet is sitting with his head down and not inherited by his star form, and it's basically soulless (looks like he's sleeping, but the puppet is just not possessed).

 

[Deleted member]

It'll be amazing to see papagenos ' reaction if Geno gets a reveal trailer, especially TerminalMontage and BestGuyEver's reactions (not sure if BestGuyEver will do a reaction video, he'll probably just do a Geno worship video for him like he did for Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo).

Fatmanonice , I'd definitely love to see your reaction if Geno gets in. Somebody brought this up a while back, but would it be cool if you recorded your reaction to Geno's reveal trailer if it happens? You could just record the audio, that's it, and use the audio for the exact parts of the trailer you see; combine the audio of your reaction with the reveal trailer.

If you're talking in battle, he does have the sleep "paralysis" effect.

In the overworld, well... no, but yes. It looks like he does, but he doesn't. At the end of the game where the party watches Exor disintegrate from Bowser's Keep, Geno has a sprite where his puppet is sitting with his head down and not inherited by his star form, and it's basically soulless (looks like he's sleeping, but the puppet is just not possessed).

I would love to see a Smash Kingdom episode where Geno redeems himself when he gets playable!

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

In my experience with the franchise, I think that so much of what makes Sora Sora is his connection to Disney. He'd easily have a moveset ready to go, but I feel like it'd feel kind of hollow if they wouldn't be able to include Donald and Goofy in any capacity. Not to say it's impossible, though.

Clearly we are getting more Square Enix content, however. Geno's costume being suspiciously missing means Square is probably going to have another character (or at least another pack of costumes) since I don't think they'd be the type of company to dump their costumes into randomly allocated packs. I could see a Sora costume that gets rid of the Disney logo on the keyblade or something like that. I feel like the timeline of Fighter Pass 2 (and how ARMS is apparently their first big reveal lol) makes me feel like something like this would be really really hard to pull off.

I'd love to be wrong since Sora would be cool, but I just think that Geno's history to the Smash fanbase, plus the Grinch leak resurging his popularity, and the fact that his Mii costume is missing for literally no reason makes him more likely in my eyes. But we are getting some Square Enix content in Fighter Pass 2 so I'm kinda ready for anyone... unless of course they just scrapped Geno's costume and the Chocobo costume for no reason which maybe that was their whole plan all along lmao

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

On the topic of the Fortnite thing, yes Thanos, Deadpool, and Star Wars all appeared in Fortnite but riddle me this: do you really think Fortnite paid the rights to use them? More like Disney used Fortnite for easy advertising. I mean, they literally did it in Endgame, so it was probably a partnership but that doesn't mean Fortnite can do whatever it wants with their IP.

 

[UberMadman]

This thread brings up Sora quite a bit.
Personally I’m a fan of both, what I would say is that it sounds like most people on this thread probably haven’t played through more than 1 Kh game, if any.

Dream Drop Distance is an entire game without Donald and Goofy as allies.It actually doesn’t really mention them too often. Kh also has Original Content that spans multiple titles.
Other than the key chain on his signature weapon there isn’t really a need to bring up any Disney related elements.

The amount of original content KH has to reference from is a lot greater than what SMRPG has to offer as well so it’s weird thinking that Sakurai would have any issues at all putting a challenger pack together for him.

I will admit that Disney could pose a bit of an obstacle, but maybe not. They are pushing out a lot of their licenses recently to other developers.

I don’t think the question we should be asking is “COULD Sora work in Smash without Donald and Goofy”, but rather, “WOULD Sakurai want to add Sora if he couldn’t include Donald and Goofy?” And I think there is a decent amount of evidence for either side to make a point there. On the one hand, Sakurai has absolutely made concessions in the past to make certain characters playable, namely Ridley and a lot of characters that showed up as alts of another character, (Alph and the Koopalings), or the various echoes/clones throughout the series. On the other hand, Sakurai is the guy who told Banda Namco straight-up that if they forced him to use Pac-Man’s Ghostly Adventures design, he wouldn’t put him in the game at all. He also abstained from putting Ridley until Ultimate BECAUSE he wanted to find a compromise that worked for him. The man is a perfectionist in a lot of regards, so I think a lot of Sora getting into Smash hinges on whether or not Sakurai feels he could do the franchise justice without being able to represent the Disney half of it in any way.

Just some food for thought. Geno may be my main DLC pick, but I’d love to see Sora too, so I hope he can make it in, even if Donald and Goofy aren’t in tow.

 

[Loliko YnT]

The apparent lack of any further new modes is still rather disappointing, since that just means that Boss Battles missed the bus. (Beyond there being little chance of story expansions, etc.) Geno Whirling every boss into oblivion in succession without having to go into WoL would've been fun.

The lack of Boss Rush is super weird to me : All they have to do is a Rest Arena , and that's it. And if we're lucky , doing an online leaderboards for time.
It's not like Stage Builder and Home Run Contest wich were pretty much made from scratch.

---

Also , I think adding Tifa or Sephiroth to promote FF7 Remake would leave me the same bad taste that gave me. The game isn't on Switch , and not everyone has the budget to buy another console and triple A game with it just for one Smash announcement. Yes , there is FF7 on the eshop but... If we go by that logic , just give me Dark Mage or Noctis to represent old school or modern FF.
It worked with Hero because the DQ 11 port released at the same time. It wouldn't work for Tifa or Sephiroth because the game has no Switch port planned yet , even if they are very popular character by default. Like yeah , it's still Sephiroth , he's Ganondorf level of big bad guy.

It's just that , at this point , people who still follow Smash news are Nintendo and Smash fans , so adding characters that are requested by them/know by them seem like to be their strategy. And... I dunno , at most , I only see the japanese crowd asking for Sephiroth , while Geno and Sora are still the frontunners world-wide. Not saying Sephiroth doesn't deserve a place on the roster , rather than general popularity doesn't equal to Smash popularity.

In the end , 90% of the roster us first party Nintendo characters , and the vast majority of third party characters have strong ties to Nintendo. () , ( had the remake of the first MGS on GC , litteraly only had a 3DS spin-off , P5 has yet to be on Switch.)

Not saying you SHOULD have 99% of your games on Nintendo consoles to be a possibility for Smash , it's just that Smash is a Nintendo cross-over with big VIP guests in the end , not a Nintendo X SEGA X Capcom X Konami X Bandai Namco X Square Enix X Atlus X Microsoft fighting game with all equal representation.
I'm saying this because during the days of the first Fighter pass , I saw so many people thinking Smash was a representation of gaming as a whole , and using that to justify that every DLC should be third party , when it's not.

 

[Polarthief]

had the remake of the first MGS on GC

A reminder that there was even the NES Metal Gear. Not a great game, but you still played as Snake even in that one. While his first huge hit in the West didn't start on a Nintendo console, he's still had ties to Nintendo for awhile.

That said, FF had very strong original ties to the NES/SNES too, so while FF7 hasn't (the first one to NOT be on Nintendo), the series' roots were on it. I just wish Square would remember that and not just go for FF7 all the time. If our fate is to get another FF character (regardless if Geno comes or not), I just wish they'd pick *any other* FF game to pick a character from: Terra or Kefka, Zidane (would probs play like Lloyd a bit) or Vivi, Squall, Cecil or Kain, Tidus or Yuna, some FF14 character, just pick ANYONE other than another FF7 rep. I know the game's popular and has popular (and edgy) characters, but I don't think it's worth passing up all your other games for.

TL;DR: FF7 to me would be as bad as (if not worse than) another FE rep.

I saw so many people thinking Smash was a representation of gaming as a whole , and using that to justify that every DLC should be third party , when it's not.

I personally thought it'd be all third party but not for that reason. The first 4 were third party and I couldn't really think of first party characters that couldn't have been in base instead. Circumstances have changed though.
As long as we don't get more Byleth picks and we get Geno, I'll be more than happy regardless how many are first or third party.

 

[Deleted member]

Not saying you SHOULD have 99% of your games on Nintendo consoles to be a possibility for Smash , it's just that Smash is a Nintendo cross-over with big VIP guests in the end , not a Nintendo X SEGA X Capcom X Konami X Bandai Namco X Square Enix X Atlus X Microsoft fighting game with all equal representation.
I'm saying this because during the days of the first Fighter pass , I saw so many people thinking Smash was a representation of gaming as a whole , and using that to justify that every DLC should be third party , when it's not.

People started to adopt that stance because even Nintendo/Sakurai make it seem like Smash is moving towards "gaming hall of fame" or trying to attract "new audiences" rather than, as Melee billed it, "Nintendo's All Stars". It doesn't much help that literally the very first third party inclusion to Smash was Snake, a character who had just about as little to do with Nintendo as possible. Snake, Pac-Man and Terry really stand out, honestly, because for every other third party inclusion, it's easy to say that their franchise is either important to Nintendo's history or their franchise started out on a Nintendo console - oftentimes both.

Sonic - the mascot of Nintendo's fiercest rival.
Mega Man - an absolute legend of the NES and to a lesser extent, the SNES
Ryu - Street Fighter on the SNES was a huge hit
Cloud - Final Fantasy started on the NES and Nintendo was home to the first six titles as well as several spinoffs
Bayonetta - dude shill lmao Nintendo saved the franchise
Simon - another NES legend
Joker - Shin Megami Tensei started on the SNES (Persona is a SMT spinoff)
Hero - Dragon Quest started out on the NES, one of, if not the biggest RPG franchises of all time
Banjo - N64 platforming legend

I guess Pac-Man gets a pass because come on. Snake, Terry, and to a smaller extent Joker, feel like picks that are 100% Sakurai (Snake because it was a request from Kojima).

As far as equal representation goes, I was of the firm belief that we would be seeing equal representation for all the companies that got characters before Ultimate. For instance:

Brawl: Snake -> Ultimate: Simon/Richter [Konami 3]
Brawl: Sonic -> 4: Bayonetta -> Ultimate: Joker [Sega 3]
4: Mega Man, Ryu -> Ultimate: Ken [Capcom 3]
4: Cloud -> Ultimate: Hero, ??? [Square 3]
4: Pac-Man -> Ultimate: Guys??????????????????

So before Banjo came along and all we knew was Joker, I thought we were gonna be looking at Square Square Namco Namco. There's definitely still the spots for something similar. After Geno gets in, I'll be able to hope that one of those Namco characters is Lloyd.

 

[Polarthief]

4: Pac-Man -> Ultimate: Guys??????????????????

I will be quite surprised if BandaiNamco doesn't get at least 1 more rep before SSBU is "over". I mean, a "head developer" company (shared with Sora Ltd., of course) for two games and they only got 1 rep so far? Doesn't that strike as fairly odd?

 

[TriggerX]

I don’t think the question we should be asking is “COULD Sora work in Smash without Donald and Goofy”, but rather, “WOULD Sakurai want to add Sora if he couldn’t include Donald and Goofy?” And I think there is a decent amount of evidence for either side to make a point there. On the one hand, Sakurai has absolutely made concessions in the past to make certain characters playable, namely Ridley and a lot of characters that showed up as alts of another character, (Alph and the Koopalings), or the various echoes/clones throughout the series. On the other hand, Sakurai is the guy who told Banda Namco straight-up that if they forced him to use Pac-Man’s Ghostly Adventures design, he wouldn’t put him in the game at all. He also abstained from putting Ridley until Ultimate BECAUSE he wanted to find a compromise that worked for him. The man is a perfectionist in a lot of regards, so I think a lot of Sora getting into Smash hinges on whether or not Sakurai feels he could do the franchise justice without being able to represent the Disney half of it in any way.

Just some food for thought. Geno may be my main DLC pick, but I’d love to see Sora too, so I hope he can make it in, even if Donald and Goofy aren’t in tow.

They’re just party members like any other RPG. It would be weird to include them considering most rpg characters in this game just represent themselves. And you don’t really need anyone else, but yourself to jump on the smash wagon. Look at Cloud for example. And as someone mentioned, Sora makes cameo appearances without Donald and Goofy.(Brave Exvius, World of FF.

The addition of Disney characters would help represent Kh as a whole better, but really has nothing to do with Sora as a character himself.

Don’t get me wrong, Geno has a really good shot due to fan support. I’m not saying Sora is a shoe in over Geno, but there’s more benefit to adding Sora for sure for both parties. So while I believe in Geno’s chances, I really think that he’d break a lot of patterns.

 

[Polarthief]

And as someone mentioned, Sora makes cameo appearances without Donald and Goofy.

But the important thing to consider: has he had a single appearance outside of a "Final Fantasy universe" game, or any other universe owned by SE?

 

[MattX20]

Again, Sora's owned by a different company and not Square Enix, so he's not competition for Geno or any other Square owned character.

 

[Firox]

TL;DR: FF7 to me would be as bad as (if not worse than) another FE rep.

Um, don't you think you're being a little melodramatic here? If you've ever played FF7 (or at least been a fan of the franchise) you would know that the FF7 characters are far more interesting and unique than the FE characters. The primary complaints people have with FE reps are that they often feature an uninspired, single-sword fighting style and a bland, colorless avatar personality. FF7, on the otherhand, has:

-Tifa, the brawler. A gorgeous martial artist that combines punches, kick boxing and agility with a unique UFC flare.
-Vincent, the rogue gunman. A shadowy combatant that uses pistols and rifles, along with a bladed claw. Think Metaknight, but with guns.
-Red XIII, the crimson beast. An intelligent, lion-like creature that fights with a combination of magic and teeth/claws.
-Sephiroth, the one-winged angel. Sure, if you really want to oversimplify and demean, he could fall into the single-sword styled "anime swordsman" archetype, but his inhuman speed and crazy long odachi blade set him apart from your stereotypical swordie. This, combined with his magic, Meteor and sheer Linkin Park levels of emo give him a charisma you'd never find among the FE characters. Plus he would be an epic addition to Smash's lineup of villains and a legendary foil to Cloud.

In short, if you're biased against Final Fantasy because you're worried about how one of its characters would affect Geno's chances, that's fully understandable. However, bashing or dismissing FF7 characters in the same vein as the grossly over-represented FE characters just feels exaggerated and disingenuous.

EDIT: To your point though, I agree that SE could use characters from other FF games rather than playing favorites with FF7 all the time.

 

[Deleted member]

But the important thing to consider: has he had a single appearance outside of a "Final Fantasy universe" game, or any other universe owned by SE?

Billboards in various cities across the United States :^)

I don't want the guy but I really can't wrap my brain around why people act like Sora is impossible to have without Donald and Goofy. I guess they have to melt into energy or somesuch to grant him Master Form, but that doesn't really need to be his final smash. He can cast spells without Donald and he can... uh... be goofy without Goofy. Or whatever Goofy brings to the "team". Maybe I'm just not keen on the lore, but I don't see why Riku and Kairi couldn't fill whatever role Donald and Goofy would be needed for, if they would be needed at all.

Sora could be added to Smash very faithfully with zero need for Disney content. Not moves, not spirits, not music. I don't think he's likely because of the rumor that Disney already said no, and also because he doesn't have to come with Disney content to really raise a lot of questions - he blurs the line between content that originated in a video game and cartoons because he unquestionably lives in a universe... multiverse... in which you can just pop into a beloved Disney world. When another video game character shows up in a non-video game world, it's a unique event, but for Sora, his entire existence is based around it.

Um, don't you think you're being a little melodramatic here? If you've ever played FF7 (or at least been a fan of the franchise) you would know that the FF7 characters are far more interesting and unique than the FE characters. The primary complaints people have with FE reps are that they often feature an uninspired, single-sword fighting style and a bland, colorless avatar personality. FF7, on the otherhand, has:

-Tifa, the brawler. A gorgeous martial artist that combines punches, kick boxing and agility with a unique UFC flare.
-Vincent, the rogue gunman. A shadowy combatant that uses pistols and rifles, along with a bladed claw. Think Metaknight, but with guns.
-Red XIII, the crimson beast. An intelligent, lion-like creature that fights with a combination of magic and teeth/claws.
-Sephiroth, the one-winged angel. Sure, if you really want to oversimplify and demean, he could fall into the single-sword styled "anime swordsman" archetype, but his inhuman speed and crazy long odachi blade set him apart from your stereotypical swordie. This, combined with his magic, Meteor and sheer Linkin Park levels of emo give him a charisma you'd never find among the FE characters. Plus he would be an epic addition to Smash's lineup of villains and a legendary foil to Cloud.

In short, if you're biased against Final Fantasy because you're worried about how one of its characters would affect Geno's chances, that's fully understandable. However, bashing or dismissing FF7 characters in the same vein as the grossly over-represented FE characters just feels exaggerated and disingenuous.

I kind of get the sentiment. There's 9 other main characters and 14 other games worth of iconic party members to choose from. Throwing more and more Final Fantasy 7 characters is somewhat equivalent to throwing in more and more Fire Emblem Awakening characters just because the games happen to be the most commercially successful in their franchise.

 

[Polarthief]

Again, Sora's owned by a different company and not Square Enix, so he's not competition for Geno or any other Square owned character.

Except KH is still developed by SE and you don't know that for a fact.

Um, don't you think you're being a little melodramatic here? If you've ever played FF7 (or at least been a fan of the franchise) you would know that the FF7 characters are far more interesting and unique than the FE characters.

I wasn't denying that, I was just saying it's annoying how much SE circlejerks over FF7 and ignores everything else. I get it, it was your Magnum Opus that everyone and their mother loves (except me), but I'd like to see other representation, even if it's another FF game.

In short, if you're biased against Final Fantasy because you're worried about how one of its characters would affect Geno's chances, that's fully understandable. However, bashing or dismissing FF7 characters in the same vein as the grossly over-represented FE characters just feels exaggerated and disingenuous.

I'm biased against FF7, and also to a lesser extent biased against FF because competition with Geno. I'm just saying if we were to get another FF character, I would want one from another game. Again, I wasn't bashing the characters (outside of Cloud and Sephiroth because EDGE and COOL), I'm bashing SE for favoring their special child (which also hurts Geno's chances and destroys the chance of any other FF game getting in. PS: I do love FF, I just don't like FF7).

Also again, I said "TO ME" it would be worse. I would gladly accept Lyn over Sephiroth in a heartbeat since she also doesn't compete with Geno (and I like her better anyway).

EDIT: To your point though, I agree that SE could use characters from other FF games rather than playing favorites with FF7 all the time.

So I'm being melodramatic, but you still agree with me.

Billboards in various cities across the United States :^)

Lol really? Legit curious now, what are those ads for? Also did they even get permission for it if it's not Disney-related?

I don't want the guy but I really can't wrap my brain around why people act like Sora is impossible to have without Donald and Goofy.

Sora could be added to Smash very faithfully with zero need for Disney content.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just you'd have "Sora", not "Kingdom Hearts". Either way, I wouldn't really care as Sora's on my ****list of characters I don't want. In the same way I personally don't think people want "Steve", they want "Minecraft". Yeah you can have the character but it wouldn't mean you'll pull the game (series) the character is from.

I kind of get the sentiment. There's 9 other main characters and 14 other games worth of iconic party members to choose from. Throwing more and more Final Fantasy 7 characters is somewhat equivalent to throwing in more and more Fire Emblem Awakening characters just because the games happen to be the most commercially successful in their franchise.

Exactly, that's my point. It also helps that we didn't have to pay for Chrom, but would have to pay for Sephiroth (or another FF7 character). I've said it before in arguments about Byleth (usually with Icewolff) regarding that the sting of a character is greatly dampened if they come free with the game. Having to pay extra for a character you don't want (and they're also in direct competition for another character you may want) sucks and there's no denying that.
Unless we're getting 2 SE characters, Sephiroth would take a baseball bat to Geno's chances while also deconfirming any other FF character, and that would suck.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol really? Legit curious now, what are those ads for? Also did they even get permission for it if it's not Disney-related?

I linked an article about it a loooong time ago. Ad Campaign is the folks who pay for it and it's just a generic "kindness" message. The article says that Square is the people who helped make it happen, but I think it was as a middle man for the Disney properties - they just happened to be the most receptive gaming company to Ad Campaign's idea for gaming related ads.

Exactly, that's my point. It also helps that we didn't have to pay for Chrom, but would have to pay for Sephiroth (or another FF7 character). I've said it before in arguments about Byleth (usually with Icewolff) regarding that the sting of a character is greatly dampened if they come free with the game. Having to pay extra for a character you don't want (and they're also in direct competition for another character you may want) sucks and there's no denying that.
Unless we're getting 2 SE characters, Sephiroth would take a baseball bat to Geno's chances while also deconfirming any other FF character, and that would suck.

What helps more is that people actually wanted Chrom, and him showing up was a great conclusion to his "arc" of being denied in Smash 4, "some other time", etc. Not to mention that since he's an echo we assume it took them an hour's worth of work to have a fully functioning character.

 

[Firox]

So I'm being melodramatic, but you still agree with me.

I thought you were being melodramatic to say that another FE character (which we already have a metric butt-load of and people constantly complain about) would be better than another FF7 character (which could be way more unique and we only have 1 of). That said, I do still agree with the point you and Serenade made that SE sucks off FF7 a little too much and they pretty much neglect the rest of the FF franchise. As far as your bias against FF in favor of Geno, I totally get that. I'm kinda on the fence myself because I'd rather have Geno too. The puppet boi is long overdue and would fit beautifully in Smash, but if SE were to give him the shaft, I'd have slightly less harder feelings if we at least got something cool from FF instead. Like, if we ended up with Sephiroth instead of Geno, I'd acknowledge SE as a bunch of self-absorbed, tone-deaf arseholes but would at least be content with an admittedly iconic character and recognize that SE is just shilling as hard as Nintendo did with Byleth.

 

[protoblues]

This Seven Squares conversation is interesting, but I really struggle to see how any other character besides Sora and 2B (oddly not part of the conversation) could edge out Geno.

• Slime - No reason for this, "Hero" went really well and I think the call on DQ representation has already been made.
• Sephiroth - Now that we've seen the FF7 remake, it doesn't seem remotely possible for it to run on Switch, so I don't see any upside to Nintendo in bringing Sephiroth on board after Cloud.
• Crono - Is SE doing anything with Chrono Trigger? This honestly seems less likely than a SMRPG remake.
• Sora - KH content could absolutely come to Switch with Sora and sell 1m+. Not clear if they could get the green light from Disney. If they can it's a lock.
• 2B - Nier Automata could absolutely come to Switch with 2B and it would sell 1m+. I guess Platinum sees more of that money than Square Enix does, and I'm less sure Nier Replicant on Switch would be worth the effort.

There's been more whispers online about a SMRPG remake. What do you guys think of this? It's probably all conjecture, but I think it's plausible.