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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Loliko YnT

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Thank you, yes. Seriously, give us some Mystery Costume DLC. You don't need to put all costumes back, sure. I get it. Licensing is difficult. In fact, I bet licensing was why they were all removed. You can't just lose Pac-Man, Sonic, etc. either. They're huge selling points.

...The lack of any updates on it sucks, though. It's an improved game, don't get me wrong, but it feels shallow. It's not a huge updated game like FFVIIr, which really tried to make it feel unique but not alienate fans(classic battle is actually there for those who are used to the original and don't prefer action rpg's as much).
I understand what you feel. My big problem with Nintendo as of late , is that half their games that are focused on multiplayer/online stuff barely get updated. It's not a problem for single players experience like Odyssey or LA Remake , since beside patching bugs , anything you would add would be bonus , the core adventure is enough to satisfy the player.

But when it come to games like MM2 or ARMS , you have to keep updates rolling to keep the game alive , these games don't have ends , they are focused on their core gameplay and online stuff. And these games quickly feel stale.

Like , imagine if Ultimate never had updates , like for Brawl. Yes the game would still sell super well , and casuals players wouldn't exactly care , but the competitive side will last way less longer. The speculation would be pretty much dead , and people would see Smash as yet another release , like when 64 and Melee released.
It's hard to explain , but RelaxAlax explained it pretty well in his Brawl video :
"Back then , Melee had as much value as like Mario Kart Double Dash , or Pikmin" (I don't remember the exact quote)
It wouldn't feel as special , the community around the game will be less passionate in some aspects , since we wouldn't get new Smash content until the next Nintendo System.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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General Directs are usually announced at 9 AM EST a day or two before the direct actually airs.
Worth noting we've gotten quite a few a day before. So I'd say tomorrow, and if not then, not till April.

I'm sure many are aware, but Directs aren't on Fridays due to timezones. Friday in Japan would be their Thursday. Put it together, and they don't do regular directs on Saturdays. Office is often not open in many places on weekends for certain companies. Restaurants are one thing, but game companies are different. Konami seems to no longer do this, though? But that's only their Yugioh branch, as they release it sometimes on a Saturday or Sunday Morning(in their time). However, the TCG lists are always on Weekdays, probably cause, you know, TCG timezones.

Worth keeping in mind. Yes, I know I sound like a know-it all. >.>
 

MattX20

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General Directs are usually announced at 9 AM EST a day or two before the direct actually airs.
But as mentioned before, Nintendo's been a lot more unpredictable with their announcements as of late, so I'm not sure we can use the same logic for this year
 

QQS

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Does Nimbus Arena (Cloud Kingdom) from Odyssey has to do something with Nimbus Land from MarioRPG? Also, are the Scarecrow statues in Odyssey somehow inspired by the Scarecrow forms in MarioRPG?

I know the Scarecrow question its too much stretching; but what about the name Nimbus? Isn’t that a name property from MarioRPG?

A080A015-14AE-4BFE-B8BD-EFB3F1F571FF.jpeg


(credits to the photo creators please; I just did the collage)
 

Lyncario

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Does Nimbus Arena (Cloud Kingdom) from Odyssey has to do something with Nimbus Land from MarioRPG? Also, are the Scarecrow statues in Odyssey somehow inspired by the Scarecrow forms in MarioRPG?

I know the Scarecrow question its too much stretching; but what about the name Nimbus? Isn’t that a name property from MarioRPG?

View attachment 266886

(credits to the photo creators please; I just did the collage)
For the scarecrows, idk. But for the nimbus stuff, it's most likely just reusing the scientific name of the most common type of cloud (cumulonimbus).
 

MisterMike

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Does Nimbus Arena (Cloud Kingdom) from Odyssey has to do something with Nimbus Land from MarioRPG? Also, are the Scarecrow statues in Odyssey somehow inspired by the Scarecrow forms in MarioRPG?

I know the Scarecrow question its too much stretching; but what about the name Nimbus? Isn’t that a name property from MarioRPG?

View attachment 266886

(credits to the photo creators please; I just did the collage)
I highly doubt it, but since we're mentioning Odyssey stuff, can I just say how disappointing it is that two of the best concepts for levels were only used for simple, short boss arenas?
 

RetrogamerMax

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So as I said earlier I have started replaying SMRPG this week and right now I am at Booster's Tower. I forgot how bizarre and weird this part of the game was especially the part with the German chiefs and the monster cake you have to fight at the wedding later on.
 

Firox

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So as I said earlier I have started replaying SMRPG this week and right now I am at Booster's Tower. I forgot how bizarre and weird this part of the game was especially the part with the German chiefs and the monster cake you have to fight at the wedding later on.
I used to get so frustrated with the barrel hopping mini game on the way to Marrymore. If only I could get that golden beetle....

Also, I always wondered how Chain Chomp felt after I replaced her with the Spike Ball later in the game. After that bonding moment with Bowser, I felt kind of jacked up to just discard her for a better weapon, but it IS an RPG after all. Gotta level up the gear, you know.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Why do some people think Booster could be a Wario Echo? He resembles Wario a bit, but his personality and methods are nothing like Wario's so he really isn't Echo material.
 

Firox

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Why do some people think Booster could be a Wario Echo? He resembles Wario a bit, but his personality and methods are nothing like Wario's so he really isn't Echo material.
To be fair, Booster's cake-eating jaws look a lot like Wario's Neutral B.
 

TriggerX

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I'm pretty locked in on 6 being an upgrade (Waluigi or Geno) or Dante. I'm just looking at this as "Ok, who would be the first DLC characters chosen/negotiated for if they decided to do more DLC?" They tend to start the DLC with the easiest stuff, the veterans in Smash 4, Piranha Plant who was delayed from base game, and Third Parties who already have characters in Smash Brothers. (Ryu first third party DLC in 4, Joker and Hero first third party DLC in Ultimate). I mean, they had to have a couple characters in mind when they greenlit more DLC. They clearly took awhile to negotiate stuff, considering they seemed to leave it purposefully vague when they announced more DLC in September and didn't set in stone a 2nd Pass and the 6 characters until around when they recorded in November, but some characters had to have been chosen by that September direct.

That just leads us back to the fact that the Geno costume is still missing. I really don't understand how people are looking at this and saying "Oh that doesn't matter, he's not getting in." In fact, let me try and adress the points people keep making about it.

  • They just chose not to bring the costumes back!
Why? Sakurai made it clear he specifically chose to add the costume to appease the Geno fanbase and they've had no problem bringing back alot of the other costumes, the work is already done.
  • Square just chose not to let the costumes come back!
Geno is a Spirit in the base game though, and why would they change their mind after allowing it in Smash 4? It's literally free money for them.
  • It's being saved for a different Square character!
If it was moved to another Square character, then that means whatever Square character the costume was moved to would have needed to be chosen by Nintendo and requested to Sakurai by atleast sometime in July, meaning they were among the first bonus DLC characters chosen, which sounds way better for an upgrade like Geno than someone like 2B/Sora. And even if they did get chosen, and as one of the first post-pass DLC characters, WHY would they move the costume to release later anyway? It serves literally no purpose, just give those characters their own costumes.
  • Geno is getting an UPGRADED Mii Costume!
Again, this would have to have been decided by July, before the Sans costume was even revealed, so they would have had to have chosen to do this before any fan reaction to the Deluxe costumes. I don't think Sakurai is going to say "Oh, ok, let's take the Geno costume, spice it up, go to Square and fight for a music track, and then release it later".
  • They didn't bring back the Chocobo Hat either!
In case it isn't obvious, Square is way stingier about Final Fantasy in Smash that something like Geno, and again, he's a spirit in the game already, there is zero reason to not have the costume comeback. If the Chocobo costume did get moved, then that heavily supports the idea of another Square character being decided on early for bonus DLC, which again, fairs better for Geno than someone like 2B/Sora.
  • The costumes could show up with anyone!
Sqaure clearly has a habit of keeping their stuff seperate from everyone else in Smash. Cloud released all on his own in Smash 4 along with his Mii costume wave, which was just Chocobo and Geno, when every other mii costume wave had anywhere from 6-9. And then we got Hero in Smash Ultimate, again with nothing but his own costumes, and mysteriously the only DLC pack to not have two returning Mii Costumes even though Geno and Chocobo are right there? Again, really supports the idea of a Square Character being chosen for Pass 2 by that point, and I don't think I need to tell you who that looks good for. It's almost like they got moved to somewhere else but Square wouldn't let anything else go in it's place, hmmm.
  • Sqaure didn't bring the costumes back because they wanted the Hero Presentation to only focus on Dragon Quest!
Then where are the costumes? If Sqaure actually moved the Geno and Chocobo hats specifically just so they wouldn't take 15 second away from Dragon Quest (which makes no sense but whatever), then where did they get moved to? We finished the first pass, no costumes in sight, so that means either they were moved to someone post-pass, again supporting the idea that whoever the Square character is was chosen early as bonus DLC by July, or that they have just been removed entirely, which makes zero sense given it's literally free money for Square.

Is that everything?
Personally the mii costume "evidence" is still up in the air. Based on this logic, it would also apply to a Monster Hunter Rep, Lloyd, Heiachi, and a Babylonian Castle Saga series all getting a rep.
I doubt Nintendo held off on all these mii costumes just to make them all playable for Season 2.

Honestly, I think Geno's missing mii costume may just boil down to Nintendo poorly handling the mii costume dlc in general. The fact that the dlc packs consisted of preexisting material is ridiculous.

Besides IDK if most of you notice, but every other mii costume pack came with 2 returning costumes from the same parent company. So as I looked at it I just came up with a theory that just follows the pattern we've seen. Costume pair theory I guess I'll call it, if no one has mentioned this before.
For example:

Round 1 :
Tails Hat
Knuckles Hat

Round 2:
(Strictly DQ)(None)

Round 3 :
Protoman
Zero

Round 4:
None(May have to double check me on this one)

Round 5:
X
Megaman. Exe

Its a basic trend, but if it were to continue I would say Geno is likely to end up as a mii costume with the chocobo hat.

Based off this, Namco is likely to upgrade one of their character's(Probably Lloyd) while the other 2 remain as costumes.
This actually leaves both Monster Hunter Gears to show up with whatever character. Capcom doesn't seem as picky and those costumes are already paired up neatly, so they could honestly show up with just about any character reveal.

So Im expecting we get a pair of preexisting dlc costumes everyother character reveal. The last character may not even have a mii bundle associated with it. I mean, it is a "bonus" character, so that should be kind of expected.

Im not saying Geno is impossible at all, but it does seem like Nintendo is just recycling from smash 4, trying to pad their mii bundles with "extra" dlc this time around. Might be some holes to this theory, but its a weird short pattern if anything.
 
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MattX20

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Personally the mii costume "evidence" is still up in the air. Based on this logic, it would also apply to a Monster Hunter Rep, Lloyd, Heiachi, and a Babylonian Castle Saga series all getting a rep.
I doubt Nintendo held off on all these mii costumes just to make them all playable for Season 2.

Honestly, I think Geno's missing mii costume may just boil down to Nintendo poorly handling the mii costume dlc in general. The fact that the dlc packs consisted of preexisting material is ridiculous.

Besides IDK if most of you notice, but every other mii costume pack came with 2 returning costumes from the same parent company. So as I looked at it I just came up with a theory that just follows the pattern we've seen. Costume pair theory I guess I'll call it, if no one has mentioned this before.
For example:

Round 1 :
Tails Hat
Knuckles Hat

Round 2:
(Strictly DQ)(None)

Round 3 :
Protoman
Zero

Round 4:
None(May have to double check me on this one)

Round 5:
X
Megaman. Exe

Its a basic trend, but if it were to continue I would say Geno is likely to end up as a mii costume with the chocobo hat.

Based off this, Namco is likely to upgrade one of their character's(Probably Lloyd) while the other 2 remain as costumes.
This actually leaves both Monster Hunter Gears to show up with whatever character. Capcom doesn't seem as picky and those costumes are already paired up neatly, so they could honestly show up with just about any character reveal.

So Im expecting we get a pair of preexisting dlc costumes everyother character reveal. The last character may not even have a mii bundle associated with it.

Im not saying Geno is impossible at all, but it does seem like Nintendo is just recycling from smash 4, trying to pad their mii bundles with "extra" dlc this time around.
Terry's wave had the return of the Jackie and Akira costumes from Virtua Fighter.
 

TriggerX

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Terry's wave had the return of the Jackie and Akira costumes from Virtua Fighter.
Thanks, I kind of figured. They seemed kind of familiar. Overall Square is still the odd man out with the entire DQ pack, which leads me to believe they are a bit of an outlier in terms of how Nintendo wanted the DLC to be organized.

I don't think this theory really pushes a specific character for playable, all this theory really tries to show is that most mii costumes will return as pairs every bundle. Unfortunately Geno draws the short end of the stick seeing as there were only 2 square properties left from Smash 4.
 
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UberMadman

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For the scarecrows, idk. But for the nimbus stuff, it's most likely just reusing the scientific name of the most common type of cloud (cumulonimbus).
Also, Mario properties aren’t the only media that have taken Nimbus specifically as a term to reference clouds.

DE0F6A45-1043-4A36-AA4F-97ABAA245AAF.png


So I’m gonna say that I doubt it’s a Mario RPG reference at all, sadly.
 
D

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Hypothetically, if the Mii costume list is real, then I find it odd that Geno isn’t on the list but yet, Smithy and Mallow are on there as he should be if he is not playable. The Geno costume could show up with playable Geno but seems unlikely to me that both Geno has a character and a costume purchasable seems out of place. Not all costumes aren’t guaranteed to return to begin with especially 1 or 2 being potentially upgraded. And I really doubt 3 SMRPG costumes will go to a random character.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Hypothetically, if the Mii costume list is real, then I find it odd that Geno isn’t on the list but yet, Smithy and Mallow are on there as he should be if he is not playable. The Geno costume could show up with playable Geno but seems unlikely to me that both Geno has a character and a costume purchasable seems out of place. Not all costumes aren’t guaranteed to return to begin with especially 1 or 2 being potentially upgraded. And I really doubt 3 SMRPG costumes will go to a random character.
If we get Smithy and Mallow Mii costumes than I am convince they are saving them for Geno's pack.

Also it's possible for Geno's costume to return with a playable Geno since K. Rool, Chrom, Inklings and Isabelle's Smash 4 Mii costumes all came back with them in base game.
 
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SSGuy

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If I am going to play devil's advocate. None of the Mii Hats from Smash 4 have really returned to Ultimate as DLC. They have sold hats so I don't believe a lack of returning Mii Hats as DLC is preventing Chocobo but it might be something to consider. Is there any possible route that Nintendo decided to just replace the Chocobo hat with something else?

I know this sounds like me moving goal posts but all of the returning Mii costumes that have returned have been exclusively Mii Costumes. None of the Smash 4 hats have returned. (This includes the likes of the Koopa Shell helmet, the Frog hat etc)


Hopefully we know everything sooner or later. I regretfully agree with the idea that Nintendo probably is mismanaging the Mii Costumes and we ended up getting our hopes up for nothing in the end. This kind of disappointment would be par for the course for Geno fans....
 

pinshadow

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I know this sounds like me moving goal posts but all of the returning Mii costumes that have returned have been exclusively Mii Costumes. None of the Smash 4 hats have returned. (This includes the likes of the Koopa Shell helmet, the Frog hat etc)
Chocobo WAS the only third party hat as DLC though? And the Inkling Squid Hat and Majoras's Mask were both DLC headgears in Smash 4 that returned in the basegame?
 
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MattX20

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This may or may not be a coincidence, but I just got an email advertising the second fighter pass from Nintendo
1585091061927.png

1585091111965.png
 

SSGuy

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Chocobo WAS the only third party hat as DLC though? And the Inkling Squid Hat and Majoras's Mask were both DLC headgears in Smash 4 that returned in the basegame?
You're right. I wasn't thinking of the ones that made it into base game. I guess if they find it worth putting a Slime Hat in for .75, they will probably find that selling a 3rd party hat for .75 would be worth it. That pattern now has me concerned so I am just thinking of any way out lol
 

Polarthief

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Cool tweet Nintendo, it's not like you have anything else to show us this year.
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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Apparently I was born on the same day as Jontron. It's my birthday today
 

CannonStreak

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Apparently I was born on the same day as Jontron. It's my birthday today
Oh, then happy birthday to you!
 

RetrogamerMax

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Won't it be freaking hilarious if the general Nintendo Direct is delayed due to the Corona virus and it get's pushed back all the way to September lapping a full year without another Nintendo Direct lol!


Apparently I was born on the same day as Jontron. It's my birthday today
Happy birthday dude. :seuss:
 
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MattX20

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Apparently I was born on the same day as Jontron. It's my birthday today
Happy Birthday
 

MisterMike

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Apparently I was born on the same day as Jontron. It's my birthday today
Holy **** dude, what a coincidence! Happy Birthday!
 

SpiritOfRuin

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First of all, happy birthday PsychoIncarnate PsychoIncarnate

Now that the important stuff is out of the way I'd like to bring up some talking points that may impact the current discussion regarding Geno's Mii costume potentially still returning. So I may be misremembering here but I recall hearing that Hero was actually intended for base game but that securing the rights and everything took too long to make it in base game. This means that Nintendo was negotiating with SE for quite a long time and it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have had time to also negotiate to have Geno's costume and chocobo hat return with Hero. Perhaps they truly did settle on a different character for FP2 and wanted to keep stuff in FP1 strictly DQ related and werent considering how terrible that choice would be for Geno fans. Or perhaps they did negotiate for playable Geno around this time and therefore didn't release his costume with Hero as a result. Obviously we can't possibly know why but it's interesting to think about this considering how long negotiations likely were going on between Nintendo and SE.

Others have mentioned that the costume could certainly still come back with playable Geno which while we dont have a precedent for this, is certainly possible. All 3 Namco costumes could return with a playable promotion of one of those costumes too for all we know. I think the numbers are interesting but almost certainly don't matter that much. Most people already have set the expectation that FP2 will be different anyway and while I'm not totally convinced of that I still think they could do Mii costume releases however they want. They could even do some standalone costumes not tied to characters in the pass at all. Then there's the celebration theory which I would imagine would have room for many Mii costumes old and new and wouldn't hold itself in the same confines of numbers.

I know I'm not usually one to engage in such ideas and I can be quick to be pessimistic at times about Geno's chances, but I just don't see the numbers here really mattering all that much in deterring his chances. The fact still remains he has far more evidence in his favor circumstantial as it may be it is no more circumstantial than looking at Mii costume release patterns. None of this means Geno will be in, it just means he's still very possible. If Geno doesn't make it in it won't be because they looked at numbers of Mii costumes and how they could release them and chose promotions based on that it will just be because Nintendo and/or SE didn't choose or allow him to be in plain and simple. I don't see how Geno's missing Mii costume is anything but good news for us.
 

QQS

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I also already bought it. Same with FP1. We haven’t seen Geno yet but I’m pretty sure he is 76 or 77. There is so much evidence that make you infer he is here, playable.

Just hope for a double reveal at this point, it’s been No General Direct since September 4th 2019 (Terry) and No Smash Reveal since January 16th 2020 (Byleth).

So, No General Direct since more than 6 months; and No Smash Reveal since more than 2 months.

Just hope to see the first two characters soon. My bet:

#76: Crash, Waluigi, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Chun-Li or a Pokemon.

#77: Geno.

It would be pretty epic to see a double Mario Saga reveal beginning with Waluigi and ending up with Geno. I don’t root for Waluigi but I would be happy for the fans, and it would be an epic double reveal, also mixed with Mario, Bowser, Peach, Kirby and Rosalina elements.

Also I think the best female candidates are Chun-Li and Shantae. First an epic woman world famous addition; and second the Indie Queen (coming with costumes of Shovel, Hollow, Ori and more).

After Geno makes in, I don’t ask for more. I just hope the other fan wishes come true, same as Banjo did. For example with Isaac or Lloyd. Would love to see Crash also cause he is a mascot-icon and probably the last one who can stand face to face with Mario and Sonic.

I love Skull Kid, Zero and Knuckles, but I can live with that. Another two Must Missings are another Sonic rep. (Tails or Eggman) + another Zelda rep. I think the only Third Party Saga that deserves another non-echo character playable is Sonic. And to finish, Zelda it’s a must, we need another independent character.

To sum up, those are my “little complains”. But anyway Ultimate is 99.9% perfect already and I’m totally paid and done with Geno being playable there.

GENO LANDS IN SMASH ROAD!
 

Powerman293

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Glad to see that Nintendo Twitter still judges the validity of a 4chan text post "leak" by if Geno is included or not.

"You know it's fake if it includes Geno."
 

Polarthief

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or a Pokemon.
Imagine 2 shill picks in a row, both of which get horribly disastrous reactions, after you (general you, referring to Nintendo at this point) already gave a relatively lukewarm reveal (Terry) back in September last year and also took the longest break between Directs for lord knows what (better be the virus or I'm gonna laugh).

No, they need to come out swinging. Except for Chun-Li (who I don't really think would cause waves; she'd likely be another Terry-esque pick), any of your other #76 picks would be welcomed. Crash is highly-requested (not by me, but hey), Waluigi means AT (and likely Costume/Spirits too) don't deconfirm and the Internet would also explode over him, Shantae or SK mean Indies are allowed (SK also the same as Waluigi in things not deconfirming). Legit, if they started FP2 with another shill pick after Byleth and this drought, that would cause people to not buy it, regardless who comes later. They know Byleth was not well-received, surely they wouldn't do that again...

Glad to see that Nintendo Twitter still judges the validity of a 4chan text post "leak" by if Geno is included or not.

"You know it's fake if it includes Geno."
I actually told people it was fake because an SE character was "leaked" alongside non-SE Mii costumes. That was a dead giveaway it was fake. All they had to do was say "Smithy and Mallow costumes, Chocobo upgraded to premium (armless Brawler, comes with the Chocobo Song [lord knows from which FF game]), 1-2 other SE costumes I can't think of atm". If they gave it an actual try instead of just spouting ****, I could have seen it as possible.
 
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MattX20

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By tomorrow afternoon, we will know whether the rumor about the general direct we've been following for the past few weeks is true or not
 

Powerman293

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By tomorrow afternoon, we will know whether the rumor about the general direct we've been following for the past few weeks is true or not
If it is true, then people have found another "leaker" to shower with attention now that Sabi and Vergeben got BTFO'd for leading people on for nothing.
 
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