Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Burb]

So I really don't think it's that many asterisks.

Ryu us Mr. Fighting Games and Terry is Mr. Fighting Games #2. Having them as a guest in a fighting game is more common as such. These are both exceptions to the rule, as you don't see characters like Ezio coming back to Soul Calibur 5 or Yoda/Darth Vader/The Apprentice coming back from Soul Calibur 4 into Soul Calibur 6. Spawn was in Soul Calibur 2, and not only has not not returned in a Soul Calibur game since, but it's been THIS long before he was a guest character in another game (MK11, next month).

Your response boils down to "Ryu is an exception because he's an exception".

Not very sound reasoning, I'm afraid, nor does it explain around all the other characters who managed to bypass this "exclusivity" clause, nor does it explain why Heihachi was ever put into consideration for SSB4 despite having just been in PSABR.

Burb Granted, this is more of a speculation regarding the whole topic of licensing, but we know certain characters have been lent out. Also, I am not assuming that all licensing deals are the same from both the said company that owns the character and the company that wants to use them. But let's focus on Smash itself to in a sense "constrain" the topic.

Which of the Smash DLC (and base third party) fighters have been used in Crossovers since Smash Ultimate has been out?

This is a legit question since I don't really pay attention to all the games coming out and those said characters.

I'm not sure about Ultimate (it's only been a year, there's not exactly enough time to judge on that), but the grand majority of Smash 4's third party characters did make crossover cameos following their appearance in Smash 4.

 

[Lyncario]

Burb Granted, this is more of a speculation regarding the whole topic of licensing, but we know certain characters have been lent out. Also, I am not assuming that all licensing deals are the same from both the said company that owns the character and the company that wants to use them. But let's focus on Smash itself to in a sense "constrain" the topic.

Which of the Smash DLC (and base third party) fighters have been used in Crossovers since Smash Ultimate has been out?

This is a legit question since I don't really pay attention to all the games coming out and those said characters.

There's that one crossover between SAO and P5R that hapened recently.

 

[Fatmanonice]

And Soul Calibur is made by Namco, who also developed Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate.

Not only are you shifting the goalpost, but you're destroying your own argument.

If a theory requires this many asterisks and has that many exceptions, chances are it's not a very sound one.

That's not shifting the goalposts especially in the light that Smash is not a Namco exclusive crossover. What they're referring to is a Konami game that had exclusively characters that Konami, Hudson (which Konami owned), and Takara owned.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamMix_TV_World_Fighters

In this sense it's akin to Sonic Team Racing because it's predominantly internal.

 

[MattX20]

One thing I can definitely say for absolute certain is that despite Geno's popularity, he's never been licensed out for any additional crossovers beyond Smash. The only thing you could argue about Super Mario RPG content in a different crossover material was the game Fortune Street as some elements like music were redone for it

 

[Burb]

That's not shifting the goalposts especially in the light that Smash is not a Namco exclusive crossover. What they're referring to is a Konami game that had exclusively characters that Konami, Hudson (which Konami owned), and Takara owned.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamMix_TV_World_Fighters

In this sense it's akin to Sonic Team Racing because it's predominantly internal.

Yet it is made by Namco, making it an internal project within Namco.

Your original argument was that characters cannot appear in Smash if they've been in other crossovers. After someone else brought up DreamMix, you changed your argument to "It doesn't count if the crossover is made by the people who own the character!". That is the very definition of goalpost-shifting.

 

[ForsakenM]

The length between the release of Street Fighter x Tekken (which included Pac-Man as a guest fighter) and Smash 4 is comparable to the amount of time between the release of Smash Ultimate and the end of the second Fighters Pass.

So, that kinda does away with any "timed exclusivity" argument.

Oh Jesus, why did you have to remind me of that abomination of both a game and representation of both Pac-Man and Megaman. I think I might vomit now.

Interestingly enough, he was a Playstation exclusive character. Also, it was actually well over two years between the release of SFxTK before Smash 4 came out, so it is possible that there were some exclusivity rights in regards to SFxTK, but at the same time...it's a crossover game featuring Namco, so it REALLY doesn't fall under this at all.

Remember, the thing to meet is: A character who is not Ryu or Terry (I would almost count Heihachi in this as well, but he hasn't been a guest character all that much), who is not part of a game who's base design is around a crossover of different companies, that has shown up in different games by different companies without an expansive amount of time in between appearances.

Yet it is made by Namco, making it an internal project within Namco.

Your original argument was that characters cannot appear in Smash if they've been in other crossovers. After someone else brought up DreamMix, you changed your argument to "It doesn't count if the crossover is made by the people who own the character!". That is the very definition of goalpost-shifting.

I can't speak for Fatman here, but my argument has always excluded crossover games like MvC, SFxTK, Blazblue Cross-Tag Battle and CvS.

 

[Burb]

Interestingly enough, he was a Playstation exclusive character. Also, it was actually well over two years between the release of SFxTK before Smash 4 came out, so it is possible that there were some exclusivity rights in regards to SFxTK, but at the game time...it's a crossover game featuring Namco, so it REALLY doesn't fall under this at all.

If "featuring Namco" despite not being developed by Namco is enough to make SFxTK not count, then Soul Calibur doesn't disconfirm 2B, because Square lending their characters to both Smash and Soul Calibur is no different than Namco lending their characters to Capcom.

Again: self-destroying argument.

I can't speak for Fatman here, but my argument has always excluded crossover games like MvC, SFxTK, Blazblue Cross-Tag Battle and CvS.

If it's not goalpost shifting, it's still cherry-picking.

And neither are a very attractive look, lol.

 

[cosmicB]

The argument is timeframe and significance of the cross-over. PlayStation All Stars was basically Sony's Smash. On the topic of Tekken and Heihachi, I can go pretty deep into it but on the topic of PlayStation All Stars, Heihachi was literally picked as the signature Namco character for the game. Konami chose Raiden. Capcom chose the inferior version of Dante. Namco basically went all chips in for Tekken being a signature PlayStation staple. Beyond that there's other things like the fact that Sony has literally published a good number of the Tekken games so the connection is far from superficial.

If timeframe is that significant, then we're going really strict here with 2B just barely missing the window. I mean, Terry's release in Ex Layer was also part of the Smash speculation cycle while Heihachi isn't in that window at all. And you're also ignoring the evergreen market of gacha cross-overs which are happening all the time and would probably deny characters like Dante coming. This is just another theory that's really selective and has a lot of "well that doesn't count" aspects.

I think the only valid speculation of this deconfirming Lara isn't that she's in another fighting game during Ult's dlc development, it's that she's in a SIMILAR fighting game. Brawlhala is a platform fighter technically in direct competition with Smash, so people are going to latch onto the idea that there's enough setting the two apart and thus see her being part of FP2 as redundant.

 

[NOSTARSICK]

There's that one crossover between SAO and P5R that hapened recently.

And that Persona Crossover with Identity V, and with Another Eden, and also Star Ocean Anamnesis (I mean, all are mobile games but I believe Joker appeared in all these after he did in smash)

 

[mynameisBlade]

Your response boils down to "Ryu is an exception because he's an exception".

Not very sound reasoning, I'm afraid, nor does it explain around all the other characters who managed to bypass this "exclusivity" clause, nor does it explain why Heihachi was ever put into consideration for SSB4 despite having just been in PSABR.



I'm not sure about Ultimate (it's only been a year, there's not exactly enough time to judge on that), but the grand majority of Smash 4's third party characters did make crossover cameos following their appearance in Smash 4.

Who knows. Maybe we didn't hear the full story. Sakurai may have wanted Heihachi til he played PSASBR and felt how ****ty all the characters felt and it disgusted him to the point of relegating Heihachi to a Mii. But hey that's just THEORY a GAME THEORY!~

 

[Fatmanonice]

On the topic of Ryu, the dude's been a crossover staple since the mid-90's. The guy has even officially crossed over in a Power Rangers game and even a ****in' FAMILY GUY game. MF was in both Wreck It Ralph movies too so Ryu is a video game icon, period. If Capcom cross-overs with another company, Ryu is almost guaranteed to show up, same with SNK and Terry. Characters like Rayman and 2B are not even on the same planet in that regard. Street Fighter and King of Fighters practically defined fighting video games and fighting video game cross-overs years before Smash existed and Sakurai has even credited both for their parts in ultimately inspiring Smash.

 

[Burb]

Also....I'm not even sure why you guys are trying to go out of your way to find ways to disconfirm Geno's competition.

Don't you usually get upset when other people try to say Geno is disconfirmed? You guys are essentially doing the exact same thing people like myself and GameFAQs as a whole are vilified for.

Like, don't most of you think he's this shoo-in lock, anyway? If it's already this foregone conclusion that he's getting in, why are you threatened by Lara Croft and 2B of all characters?

On the topic of Ryu, the dude's been a crossover staple since the mid-90's. The guy has even officially crossed over in a Power Rangers game and even a ****in' FAMILY GUY game. MF was in both Wreck It Ralph movies too so Ryu is a video game icon, period. If Capcom cross-overs with another company, Ryu is almost guaranteed to show up, same with SNK and Terry. Characters like Rayman and 2B are not even on the same planet in that regard. Street Fighter and King of Fighters practically defined fighting video games and fighting video game cross-overs years before Smash existed and Sakurai has even credited both for their parts in ultimately inspiring Smash.

Like I told the other guy who tried saying "Ryu is an exception because he's an exception!", that's not a very good argument, and the idea that they'd just pick and choose who to thrust these "exclusivity" rules on effectively renders the entire theory moot and worthless, because who are you or anybody else to decide who they'd force exclusivity on and who they wouldn't?

 

[Dukefire]

Smash is one of the place in the Video Game world for one to become VERY popular as part of a celebration of gaming

 

[cosmicB]

The argument is timeframe and significance of the crossover, not fighting game appearances. Obviously Ryu, Ken, and Terry were in a ton of cross-overs before Smash so if that's all I was arguing the argument would be dead on arrival. For Rayman, Lara, and 2B the issue is timeframe and their debuts as fighting crossover characters. All of them happened since Smash Ultimate DLC was formally announced in November 2018. Smash Ultimate began development in late 2015 and DLC was supposedly decided early 2018. Do you see where I'm going with that? Heihachi and Tekken is just a whole other thing with Tekken practically being the signature Sony fighting game series for over two decades and honestly a ton of examples where it had been singled out as such.

So what you're saying is 2B needs time to cement herself as a cross-over queen? Well have I got news for you:

https://www.siliconera.com/nier-automata-valkyrie-anatomia-2b-collab-finally-appears-worldwide/

Add that to Final Fantasy XIV and Soul Calibur and she's building quite the cross-over credentials for someone that only existed since 2017.

 

[JarBear]

Fair points to all with this whole topic. At the end of the day, everything is pretty much the same: Everything is on the table/up in the air. We can still get just about anybody.

I think we are going stir crazy here. Lol.

Nintendo end the drought!

 

[MattX20]

Also....I'm not even sure why you guys are trying to go out of your way to find ways to disconfirm Geno's competition.

Don't you usually get upset when other people try to say Geno is disconfirmed? You guys are essentially doing the exact same thing people like myself and GameFAQs as a whole are vilified for.

Like, don't most of you think he's this shoo-in lock, anyway? If it's already this foregone conclusion that he's getting in, why are you threatened by Lara Croft and 2B of all characters?

I'm not opposed to Lara Croft or 2B at all, I'm just thinking of how Square would prioritize their business model, and unfortunately Lara's fallen on hard times given how her last game performed, though her crossover in Brawlhalla certainly gives her a bit of a comeback. That, and the timing of 2B's inclusion in Soul Calibur 6 makes me question if she still has a shot. She's not impossible by any means, but I think knowing that Sakurai's been wanting to put Geno in the game for over 10 years since Brawl gives me the impression Geno's going to be higher priority.

 

[Shadow__Myth]

Fair points to all with this whole topic. At the end of the day, everything is pretty much the same: Everything is on the table/up in the air. We can still get just about anybody.

I think we are going stir crazy here. Lol.

Nintendo end the drought!

Yep, agreed. A lot of speculation is done here, but that's only because there isn't much more to talk about at this point. Geno could be added, but he also might not. We can speculate all we want, but we're never going to see the truth until it's revealed.

That being said, speculation is harmless. I don't think people should be vilified for just making conversation.

 

[Burb]

I'm not opposed to Lara Croft or 2B at all, I'm just thinking of how Square would prioritize their business model, and unfortunately Lara's fallen on hard times given how her last game performed, though her crossover in Brawlhalla certainly gives her a bit of a comeback. That, and the timing of 2B's inclusion in Soul Calibur 6 makes me question if she still has a shot. She's not impossible by any means, but I think knowing that Sakurai's been wanting to put Geno in the game for over 10 years since Brawl gives me the impression Geno's going to be higher priority.

Yet here we are, trying to find ways to shove them into a freshly dug grave.

Kinda redundant when they're going up against a character who's supposedly all-but-confirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

Don’t you find it odd and annoying that random people who are not even fans of Geno nor even here to talk about him randomly show up here while get things off topic. These people literally have 0 reason to be here. If you’re not here to talk about Geno, you’re in the wrong thread and you’re wasting your time.

 

[Shadow__Myth]

Yet here we are, trying to find ways to shove them into a freshly dug grave.

Kinda redundant when they're going up against a character who's supposedly all-but-confirmed.

People here are clearly just speculating. Why do you feel like you have to butt into this topic and tell everyone what they can and can't think?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yet it is made by Namco, making it an internal project within Namco.

Your original argument was that characters cannot appear in Smash if they've been in other crossovers. After someone else brought up DreamMix, you changed your argument to "It doesn't count if the crossover is made by the people who own the character!". That is the very definition of goalpost-shifting.

My argument wasn't a character can't appear if they're in another crossover though. My argument is that Nintendo is not going to play second banana to other companies, especially Indies, if they intend characters to be playable in Smash. Kind of like what was pointed out earlier, K. Rool's revival was reserved for Smash Ultimate. Nintendo wouldn't let another company steal their thunder on that. Same thing here. If 2B or Lara were meant to be Smash reveals, I don't think Nintendo would be cool with their fighting game crossover debut to be in something else during the literal development period of Smash Ultimate and when they're still actively releasing DLC for the game.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Also....I'm not even sure why you guys are trying to go out of your way to find ways to disconfirm Geno's competition.

Don't you usually get upset when other people try to say Geno is disconfirmed? You guys are essentially doing the exact same thing people like myself and GameFAQs as a whole are vilified for.

Like, don't most of you think he's this shoo-in lock, anyway? If it's already this foregone conclusion that he's getting in, why are you threatened by Lara Croft and 2B of all characters?



Like I told the other guy who tried saying "Ryu is an exception because he's an exception!", that's not a very good argument, and the idea that they'd just pick and choose who to thrust these "exclusivity" rules on effectively renders the entire theory moot and worthless, because who are you or anybody else to decide who they'd force exclusivity on and who they wouldn't?

Many of us are not threatened by Lara Croft at all. Personally, I want her more than ever, but seeing characters join other "extremely similar" fighting games FIRST does something to that original mentality. I wouldn't really know how to explain it besides saying that seeing her join another Smash clone this close to the upcoming Smash DLC seemingly hurts her chances, which sucks. I def want to see her get into Smash. I actually think she is the "deserves it most" female character that isn't in the game already.

I don't see her hindering Geno at all.

 

[JarBear]

Burb , to be fair, isn't this the Geno support thread and basically we are SPECULATING on his chances? Which can stray into the "competition" (Which I am using VERY loosely) with other owned IP by Square.

Granted, there are those who have some harsh views on certain characters, but so far in this thread when it comes to these other Square characters, there isn't "Yeah, she isn't coming in cuz she sucks" or "You like that character? You are stupid." or "He/She is terrible like you!"

That ain't happening here. And I can't speak on everyone's behalf of Geno supporters (Let alone I don't venture much outside of this thread) Are there Geno supporters crapping on other people's characters in their thread? I don't think so. That's the difference between here and GameFAQS and other sites like that since in those sites if you even say the name Geno you get death threats.

This has all been speculating and I haven't seen any harsh things being said about 2B or Lara at this time. It has just been questioning chances with them being used for other games. Does it mean there is no way for them to be used while being licensed to other games. Nah. Can it be a reason they may not be used for Smash? Maybe, Maybe Not. So when you are asking "What's the difference here than you treatment in GameFAQS, etc. with Geno" That's the difference. HUGE difference.

(Also, not saying you are here to crap on the character, just providing counter arguments on the current speculation and that's fine by me.)

 

[Burb]

My argument wasn't a character can't appear if they're in another crossover though. My argument is that Nintendo is not going to play second banana to other companies, especially Indies, if they intend characters to be playable in Smash. Kind of like what was pointed out earlier, K. Rool's revival was reserved for Smash Ultimate. Nintendo wouldn't let another company steal their thunder on that. Same thing here. If 2B or Lara were meant to be Smash reveals, I don't think Nintendo would be cool with their fighting game crossover debut to be in something else during the literal development period of Smash Ultimate and when they're still actively releasing DLC for the game.

Ummm.....K. Rool's revival wasn't "saved for Smash". Nobody has developed any DK games except Retro since they picked up the mantle, and Retro themselves chose to create different villains. There wasn't another chance FOR K. Rool to "return" since then.

Burb , to be fair, isn't this the Geno support thread and basically we are SPECULATING on his chances?

Granted, there are those who have some harsh views on certain characters, but so far in this thread when it comes to these other characters, there isn't "Yeah, she is coming in cuz she sucks" or "You like that character? You are stupid."

That ain't happening here. And I can't speak on everyone's behalf of Geno supporters (Let alone I don't venture much outside of this thread) Are there Geno supporters crapping on other people's characters in their thread? I don't think so. That's the difference between here and GameFAQS and other sites like that.

This has all been speculating and I haven't seen any harsh things being said about 2B or Lara. So when you are asking "What's the difference here than you treatment in GameFAQS, etc." That's the difference.

(Also, not saying you are here to crap on the character, just providing counter arguments on the current speculation and that's fine by me.)

"It's just speculation" doesn't really fly, because in our case, it's also "just speculation".

Even if we're more abrasive about it, it's the same general concept. We're both writing the demise of certain characters.

People here are clearly just speculating. Why do you feel like you have to butt into this topic and tell everyone what they can and can't think?

Someone presented a theory. I came to rebuke said theory.

Given how argumentative you were over on GameFAQs, and your own admission there that your whole reason for posting was to force people to change their minds about Geno, it's more than a little bit ridiculous that you're actually saying these things.

 

[SSGuy]

Yet here we are, trying to find ways to shove them into a freshly dug grave.

Kinda redundant when they're going up against a character who's supposedly all-but-confirmed.

I understand and agree with almost every point you have been making but maybe pump the brakes a bit and be a little less hostile. Your posts are just starting to look like sour grapes/whining at this point. Disagree and move on.

I'm kind of out of the loop when it comes to this franchise. Does Nintendo have any interest in bringing Nier to the Switch? That could always be a point in 2B's favor if Nintendo is interested. I'd even argue whichever franchise Nintendo is most interested in putting onto thr Switch next is Square's most likely next character. I just am not entirely sure what that is. Is Nier even considered?

 

[TooManyToastahs]

FATMAN VS. BURB, FATMAN VS. BURB, EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE THIS HAPPEN.
Mods are in the call! And y’know don’t say, sw-swears.

Okay Jerma joke aside, it is a little disheartening that, like Burb said, we’re actively looking for ways to discredit Geno’s chances. Yeah, I know it’s to prepare for the worst and to spark conversation, I’m all fine with that, but allowing these conversations to take place opens the door for the same people who regularly come in the thread just to discredit Geno. It just creates a bad atmosphere and I don’t enjoy it very much.

or maybe i’m outta my mind and i’m reading all this wrong. par for the course for mr. toaster man himself!

 

[Deleted member]

Yeesh some things never change.


A couple of weeks of non-Geno hate then all of a sudden like a bunch of sharks smelling blood, the no so big fans jump back on to verbally beat his chances down again.

Look everyone's got their option to the people who don't think he'll be in you might be right. If he isn't so be it.

But let us enjoy our support of star boy in peace yeah?

Anyway welcome to anyone here. Always nice to see people's options.

 

[Ouma]

Guess which big indie character that wasn't in any indie fighting games like Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla, Brawlout, ect? Shantae.

Could that be a sign WayForward signed a contract with Nintendo to have her only exclusively be in Smash and not any other fighting game? I know she is a Spirit, but she can be promoted.

>Imagine thinking that Shantal still has a shot because of this.

Lol

There are more reasons to count out Heihachi besides him appearing in Playstation Allstars. Being a part of one of Pac-Man's taunts is another one.

If that deconfirms Heihachi, then I’d argue that Geno is 100% hard deconfirmed because of his Spirit.

But I guess that he is the exception to everything, huh.

Oh boy, here I go again in this ENDLESS CYCLE OF A CIRCLE OF SAYING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER!

1. Just because you can get CLOSE to making that angle doesn't mean you can GET that angle. It's already been proven that this EXACT angle with this EXACT spot at this EXACT time is unable to be copied by someone without dev tools because back in November everyone and their mother tried and could not 1-to-1 copy it. When you add in other stuff like the timer that is clearly from a dev kit and how better persons with more knowledge and talent in the modding community couldn't even come close to truly copying either the Caco Helmet or Mallow Hat, you have yourself a recipe for a probable leak.

2. Need I stress that this has been around since November and all of this has been done before and yet, no one could prove anything and no one came out to prove they faked it?

3. For the billionth time, Marty Stratton saying that there have been no serious talks about Doom Guy being playable in Smash is not the same thing as saying "Nintendo has never talked to us about any content in Smash at all, ever never!" and considering it's already been stated that they HAVE talked to the Smash team in some regard AND Cacodemon could come with another Bethesda character OR just come on it's own considering how we have no playable Ubisoft character yet we have Altair and the Rabbids as costumes...hate to say it bud, but that interview isn't even a blip on the radar against this leak.

He specifically said that they haven’t been approached, period. The way he phrased it was in a way that Doom could potentially get completely shafted at all fronts.

Not sure why you are trying to revive this already debunked leak. But I guess its because your MW is on it, so it must be real.

Don’t you find it odd and annoying that random people who are not even fans of Geno nor even here to talk about him randomly show up here while get things off topic. These people literally have 0 reason to be here. If you’re not here to talk about Geno, you’re in the wrong thread and you’re wasting your time.

Or maybe its because the enormous leaps of logic being taken to deconfirm Lara Croft and 2B?

Sorry that not everyone thinks Geno is a lock.

 

[MarioTime]

Guys I recently talked to my friends about Geno and now they want him in Smash

Mission Passed!

 

[Deleted member]

>Imagine thinking that Shantal still has a shot.

Lol.



If that deconfirms Heihachi, then I’d argue that Geno is 100% hard deconfirmed because of his Spirit.

But I guess that he is the exception to everything, huh.



He specifically said that they haven’t been approached, period. The way he phrased it was in a way that Doom could potentially get completely shafted at all fronts.

Not sure why you are trying to revive this already debunked leak. But I guess its because your MW is on it, so it must be real.



Or maybe its because the enormous leaps of logic being taken to deconfirm Lara Croft and 2B?

Sorry that not everyone thinks Geno is a lock.

Ah yep thank you for proving my point. Random people showing up. Idc if people think Geno is a lock or not. And I personally disagree with some arguments but why does it bother you being in here.

 

[ForsakenM]

If "featuring Namco" despite not being developed by Namco is enough to make SFxTK not count, then Soul Calibur doesn't disconfirm 2B, because Square lending their characters to both Smash and Soul Calibur is no different than Namco lending their characters to Capcom.

Again: self-destroying argument.



If it's not goalpost shifting, it's still cherry-picking.

And neither are a very attractive look, lol.

Ah, I think I get Burb's argument now.

Ryu, Terry and Heihachi cannot count as exceptions to the rule just because they are popular fighting game characters that are the faces of popular fighting games and tend to be in crossover games or as guest characters to non-crossover games...despite Ryu and Terry (with Heihachi falling under this had he been in Smash 4) being the only examples of characters who break this trend due to being the faces of the company and their games and sheer popularity when many examples of this NOT happening to other characters have already been listed.

Crossover games that are built from the ground up as crossover games between select companies's characters cannot be treated differently from non-crossover games getting guest characters who will never return because his argument needs them to be seen as the same thing to make more sense for his narrative despite clearly being different scenarios.

Characters showing up in a competitor's platform fighting game after all characters for Vol 2 have been confirmed to have been selected can't possibly work against that character being in Smash because I need to be argumentative and prove my intelligence in a thread that I've already slander myself in months ago.

Sorry bud. I get what you are trying to do. You are taking fancy debate terms that you learned off the internet and are now trying to defeat people's arguments in a concise manner to make yourself look good when all you are really doing is offering weak counterpoints and tossing our buzzwords. Try again with some REAL evidence of a guest character like Ezio or 2B or Yoda/The Apprentice/Darth Vader being used in another fighting game within the same life cycle.

Some advice: argue stronger points, like the fact that Brawlhalla (despite being owned by Ubisoft now) is really an indie platform fighter and thus a character showing up there doesn't count them out for a AAA title like Ultimate. My counterpoint to that would be that since it was bought by Ubisoft, Brawlhalla is now more in Minecraft territory in which is WAS indie but is no longer considered as such and that could be an issue, but at least that stance is stronger than this hill you are dying on right next to your popular debate terms search history.

In regards to what you have said about us not worrying about 2B or Lara Croft regardless of their appearances in these other fighting games...

You are correct! We aren't worried about them. Geno has more solid evidence than any other fighter out there right now, forget just Square reps. This has nothing to do with trying to debunk 2B or Lara Croft to make Geno look better: his chances are already phenomenal! It was simply this: We found out Lara Croft is in Brawlhalla; we figured that overall that was a negative sign for her chances for Ultimate due to timing, how guest characters have a habit of working the majority of the time, and how Brawlhalla is a competitor (even if small) to Smash Bros; ready to move on, lurkers such as yourself pop in out of nowhere and unprovoked trying to slam us and spin this as trying to justify that Geno has a better chance now when in reality it means nothing...but the real reality is Geno has always had a better chance.

So, when YOU are ready to move on back to GameFAQs where the boards are allowed to be a cesspool of toxic tomfoolery, we can finally go back to talking about general Smash news and Geno on a site that is anti-Fatman and likes to crackdown on stuff like this.

 

[Burb]

I understand and agree with almost every point you have been making but maybe pump the brakes a bit and be a little less hostile. Your posts are just starting to look like sour grapes/whining at this point. Disagree and move on.

"Sour grapes" would require me to be sour about something. I'm not a fan of Nier or Tomb Raider, and have no interest in seeing 2B or Lara Croft in Smash.

All I'm saying is that it's not really a good look for this thread to go in the direction of "How can we disconfirm non-Geno characters that Square owns!?", especially given the sheer level of sensitivity this fandom tends to have in response to people doing the same thing to Geno.

Ah, I think I get Burb's argument now.

Ryu, Terry and Heihachi cannot count as exceptions to the rule just because they are popular fighting game characters that are the faces of popular fighting games and tend to be in crossover games or as guest characters to non-crossover games...despite Ryu and Terry (with Heihachi falling under this had he been in Smash 4) being the only examples of characters who break this trend due to being the faces of the company and their games and sheer popularity when many examples of this NOT happening to other characters have already been listed.

Wait a second.....

Ryu, Terry, and Heihachi were the only characters to appear in other fighting games after Smash? Jeez, that's a weird coincidence. It must be because of some special "Mr. Fighting Game" clause and not because they're fighting game characters who would naturally be in-demand for appearances in other fighting games.

Here I was thinking they'd all want to use Bayonetta or Richter Belmont. Silly me.

Ah, I think I get Burb's argument now.
Crossover games that are built from the ground up as crossover games between select companies's characters cannot be treated differently from non-crossover games getting guest characters who will never return because his argument needs them to be seen as the same thing to make more sense for his narrative despite clearly being different scenarios.

Characters showing up in a competitor's platform fighting game after all characters for Vol 2 have been confirmed to have been selected can't possibly work against that character being in Smash because I need to be argumentative and prove my intelligence in a thread that I've already slander myself in months ago.

Except it's not a different scenario. At all.

"They're fighting game characters, so they're exempt!" isn't a valid argument. Again, like the others, you're saying Ryu is an exception because he's an exception.

Sorry bud. I get what you are trying to do. You are taking fancy debate terms that you learned off the internet and are now trying to defeat people's arguments in a concise manner to make yourself look good when all you are really doing is offering weak counterpoints and tossing our buzzwords. Try again with some REAL evidence of a guest character like Ezio or 2B or Yoda/The Apprentice/Darth Vader being used in another fighting game within the same life cycle.

"i'm just gonna try insulting you now because that's a good look, too"

k, then.

Some advice: argue stronger points, like the fact that Brawlhalla (despite being owned by Ubisoft now) is really an indie platform fighter and thus a character showing up there doesn't count them out for a AAA title like Ultimate. My counterpoint to that would be that since it was bought by Ubisoft, Brawlhalla is now more in Minecraft territory in which is WAS indie but is no longer considered as such and that could be an issue, but at least that stance is stronger than this hill you are dying on right next to your popular debate terms search history.

"Argue some stronger points!" says the guy who's previous post was basically just Fatman's regurgitated.

I'm not sure what being indie has to do with anything, either, so I don't see how that's a "stronger point" than anything I've presented. I'm pretty sure Nintendo's not going to say "THIS CHARACTER IS BANNED FROM SMASH BECAUSE THEY WERE IN A GROSS INDIE GAME!". They literally just crossed The Legend of Zelda over with Crypt of the Necrodancer.

You are correct! We aren't worried about them. Geno has more solid evidence than any other fighter out there right now, forget just Square reps. This has nothing to do with trying to debunk 2B or Lara Croft to make Geno look better: his chances are already phenomenal! It was simply this: We found out Lara Croft is in Brawlhalla; we figured that overall that was a negative sign for her chances for Ultimate due to timing, how guest characters have a habit of working the majority of the time, and how Brawlhalla is a competitor (even if small) to Smash Bros; ready to move on, lurkers such as yourself pop in out of nowhere and unprovoked trying to slam us and spin this as trying to justify that Geno has a better chance now when in reality it means nothing...but the real reality is Geno has always had a better chance.

So, when YOU are ready to move on back to GameFAQs where the boards are allowed to be a cesspool of toxic tomfoolery, we can finally go back to talking about general Smash news and Geno on a site that is anti-Fatman and likes to crackdown on stuff like this.

I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to interpret the Geno thread talking about how other Square characters are disconfirmed, lol.

If that's the case, you guys are going way off-topic, which I'm recall hearing has led to some trouble in recent months.

 

[MattX20]

I don't believe any character, Geno included, is a lock. As Delzethin once said in his video on Geno, likelyhood is often subjective based on personal opinions, more often than not.

 

[Ouma]

Funny how no one has responded to Burbs point about Heihachi being considered for Smash 4 despite his PSABR appearance yet.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Ummm.....K. Rool's revival wasn't "saved for Smash". Nobody has developed any DK games except Retro since they picked up the mantle, and Retro themselves chose to create different villains. There wasn't another chance FOR K. Rool to "return" since then.

K. Rool's revival being "saved for Smash" cannot be proven true or false. It's all opinion/speculation based along with everything else talked about in this thread.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also....I'm not even sure why you guys are trying to go out of your way to find ways to disconfirm Geno's competition.

Don't you usually get upset when other people try to say Geno is disconfirmed? You guys are essentially doing the exact same thing people like myself and GameFAQs as a whole are vilified for.

Like, don't most of you think he's this shoo-in lock, anyway? If it's already this foregone conclusion that he's getting in, why are you threatened by Lara Croft and 2B of all characters?



Like I told the other guy who tried saying "Ryu is an exception because he's an exception!", that's not a very good argument, and the idea that they'd just pick and choose who to thrust these "exclusivity" rules on effectively renders the entire theory moot and worthless, because who are you or anybody else to decide who they'd force exclusivity on and who they wouldn't?

Sir, you are literally in the Geno thread. This thread supports Geno and actively makes arguments for Geno. "Why are you making arguments against Geno's competition?" I mean... Why wouldn't we? It's not like anyone here is going into the 2B or Lara Croft and doing this. Being quarantined to this thread is one thing but being told you can't make arguments against Geno's competition in the Geno thread is just... Weird. I guess the bigger question is what exactly do you want out of this interaction? Also, if we're raw dogging the opinion that Ryu and 2B are on the same footing in literally any sense then there's no where to go from here. This is the equivalent of poking roadkill with a stick at an attempt at CPR and literally nobody here wants that.

 

[MattX20]

Funny how no one has responded to Burbs point about Heihachi being considered for Smash 4 despite his PSABR appearance yet.

Heihachi was scrapped because Sakurai confirmed in an interview that his moveset was too complicated to work. Tekken is well known for very advanced button combinations, so I can see how trying to simplify complex control schemes would be headache inducing.

 

[T2by4]

Ummm.....K. Rool's revival wasn't "saved for Smash". Nobody has developed any DK games except Retro since they picked up the mantle, and Retro themselves chose to create different villains. There wasn't another chance FOR K. Rool to "return" since then.

Didn't Sakurai say in an interview that he had top priority for bringing K Rool back then? I remember in an interview for tropic freeze they specifically said Sakurai had priority and that they had to come up with a new villain entirely because of that reason.

 

[Ouma]

Ah, I think I get Burb's argument now.

Ryu, Terry and Heihachi cannot count as exceptions to the rule just because they are popular fighting game characters that are the faces of popular fighting games and tend to be in crossover games or as guest characters to non-crossover games...despite Ryu and Terry (with Heihachi falling under this had he been in Smash 4) being the only examples of characters who break this trend due to being the faces of the company and their games and sheer popularity when many examples of this NOT happening to other characters have already been listed.

Crossover games that are built from the ground up as crossover games between select companies's characters cannot be treated differently from non-crossover games getting guest characters who will never return because his argument needs them to be seen as the same thing to make more sense for his narrative despite clearly being different scenarios.

Characters showing up in a competitor's platform fighting game after all characters for Vol 2 have been confirmed to have been selected can't possibly work against that character being in Smash because I need to be argumentative and prove my intelligence in a thread that I've already slander myself in months ago.

Sorry bud. I get what you are trying to do. You are taking fancy debate terms that you learned off the internet and are now trying to defeat people's arguments in a concise manner to make yourself look good when all you are really doing is offering weak counterpoints and tossing our buzzwords. Try again with some REAL evidence of a guest character like Ezio or 2B or Yoda/The Apprentice/Darth Vader being used in another fighting game within the same life cycle.

Some advice: argue stronger points, like the fact that Brawlhalla (despite being owned by Ubisoft now) is really an indie platform fighter and thus a character showing up there doesn't count them out for a AAA title like Ultimate. My counterpoint to that would be that since it was bought by Ubisoft, Brawlhalla is now more in Minecraft territory in which is WAS indie but is no longer considered as such and that could be an issue, but at least that stance is stronger than this hill you are dying on right next to your popular debate terms search history.

In regards to what you have said about us not worrying about 2B or Lara Croft regardless of their appearances in these other fighting games...

You are correct! We aren't worried about them. Geno has more solid evidence than any other fighter out there right now, forget just Square reps. This has nothing to do with trying to debunk 2B or Lara Croft to make Geno look better: his chances are already phenomenal! It was simply this: We found out Lara Croft is in Brawlhalla; we figured that overall that was a negative sign for her chances for Ultimate due to timing, how guest characters have a habit of working the majority of the time, and how Brawlhalla is a competitor (even if small) to Smash Bros; ready to move on, lurkers such as yourself pop in out of nowhere and unprovoked trying to slam us and spin this as trying to justify that Geno has a better chance now when in reality it means nothing...but the real reality is Geno has always had a better chance.

So, when YOU are ready to move on back to GameFAQs where the boards are allowed to be a cesspool of toxic tomfoolery, we can finally go back to talking about general Smash news and Geno on a site that is anti-Fatman and likes to crackdown on stuff like this.

Give me one piece of evidence why Geno is the most likely.

Also, lol at the “GAMEFAQS BAD!!!!” card just because he told you something that you didn’t want to hear.

 

[Deleted member]

Funny how no one has responded to Burbs point about Heihachi being considered for Smash 4 despite his PSABR appearance yet.

Thank you for proving my point once again. Random people showing up and not even on topic.