Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

When did Sakurai suggest that? I believe you and all, just wanna see for myself.

I think it wasn’t a direct quote. It was more along the lines in one of the presentations (I think Banjo’s) that “there will be more opportunities to delight the fans.”

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

anyway, wonder what sakurai is going to do after he finishes up this game. Hopefully take a break

 

[Fatmanonice]

This theory falls apart because it ignores gender swaps, when many of them are considered separate characters, even within the game itself. Byleth had two splash screens specifically because they are separate characters and have different names in Japan

They're still gender swaps though and I've brought this up a few times here. Wendy O' Koopa is not female Bowser Jr, she is literally an entirely separate character. Alph and Olimar are canonically two separate people. Same for all the Heroes. Most of the gender swaps don't exist in the same timeline outside of spin-offs or are just basic avatars so it doesn't really even matter much.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think it wasn’t a direct quote. It was more along the lines in one of the presentations (I think Banjo’s) that “there will be more opportunities to delight the fans.”

Didn't he say something more like: "That there will be more opportunities to bring in more new worlds into Smash."?

anyway, wonder what sakurai is going to do after he finishes up this game. Hopefully take a break

Maybe he will direct the Kirby series again and will start with Kirby Air Ride 2.

 

[Sigran101]

I feel like it's actually possible to get the two directs this month. Just because it hasn't happened in the later half of the month doesn't mean it can't, especially if there was a delay because of the Corona virus or something else. I think it's possible to get a general direct next week.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I feel like it's actually possible to get the two directs this month. Just because it hasn't happened in the later half of the month doesn't mean it can't, especially if there was a delay because of the Corona virus or something else. I think it's possible to get a general direct next week.

I really hope you're right.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't he say something more like: "That there will be more opportunities to bring in more new worlds into Smash."?

Yup, he did say that. Quoted directly from the video “Adding more characters into the game means that more game worlds will be added to the series. And, ultimately this means that there will be an even greater opportunity to delight the fans.”

 

[Polarthief]

I feel like it's actually possible to get the two directs this month. Just because it hasn't happened in the later half of the month doesn't mean it can't, especially if there was a delay because of the Corona virus or something else. I think it's possible to get a general direct next week.

I will be so happy if it's next week because it means Zippo was 100% spot on, which likely means what he heard about PM3 is true (and hopefully Marko is wrong, or PM64 remake is just a bonus on top of that).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yup, he did say that. Quoted directly from the video “Adding more characters into the game means that more game worlds will be added to the series. And, ultimately this means that there will be an even greater opportunity to delight the fans.”

So it was in the same context I see. I totally forgot about that: "to delight the fans." Part.

 

[Deleted member]

So it was in the same context I see. I totally forgot about that: "to delight the fans." Part.

Yeah. It gives us more hope with that last statement, and for other characters as well.

 

[Polarthief]

I totally forgot about that: "to delight the fans." Part.

Same for sure. This is awesome. Geno's a lock unless SE gives us the middle finger.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Most of the gender swaps don't exist in the same timeline outside of spin-offs or are just basic avatars so it doesn't really even matter much.

Saying “most” already implies that you’re choosing to ignore certain characters to support the theory lol. Not to mention that the theory is also counting Mario and Dr. Mario separately, which kind of goes against your “canonically spectate characters” thing

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yeah. It gives us more hope with that last statement, and for other characters as well.

I know Fatman is saying Indies chances of getting a slot is zero due to what he has heard from insiders. But I hope that isn't the case and Shantae actually makes it in along with Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

I know Fatman is saying Indies chances of getting a slot is zero due to what he has heard from insiders. But I hope that isn't the case and Shantae actually makes it in along with Geno.

I would be cool with Shantae, but I would rather have someone else be the first playable indie character (not counting mii costumes). I don’t know who though, it has to be someone with a huge indie legacy. I guess you could say Shovel Knight but with his current situation, I have no clue.

 

[Polarthief]

Saying “most” already implies that you’re choosing to ignore certain characters to support the theory lol. Not to mention that the theory is also counting Mario and Dr. Mario separately, which kind of goes against your “canonically spectate characters” thing

Well Byleth, Robin, and Villagers are all literally the same characters, while Mario and Dr. Mario... are weirdly different. Besides Smash, I don't think the same game has ever had both Dr. Mario and the usual non-PhD Mario.

Just to be 100% clear, what are all the gender swaps and are any of them actually significant? The three above are clearly not and I can't immediately remember any other gender swaps off the top of my head.

Regarding indies: I feel like Shantae deserves the spot just given her not-quite-as-big-but-similar legacy to Geno, but I personally would prefer someone else. I think Shovel Knight (arguably most well-known indie) or Quote/Curly Brace (one of the first well-known, plus you could easily add Curly as an alt costume for Quote) would be a cool first pick, and both I'd love to back. That said, I don't really care who it is, I would just love to get an indie in for Ultimate's final 6.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Saying “most” already implies that you’re choosing to ignore certain characters to support the theory lol. Not to mention that the theory is also counting Mario and Dr. Mario separately, which kind of goes against your “canonically spectate characters” thing

Honestly I think the road to 100 thing doesn’t even need to care about the number 100 to be real. The general idea is that we’d get one final character after the second fighter pass, which I think is somewhat likely no matter what, regardless of what the final character count is

 

[Deleted member]

I'll just be the devil here for a moment and bring up what I feel is a conflict:

"delight the fans"

vs

"Sakurai works to make other people other than himself happy"

I'm not gonna go into Terry and Joker on this, it's kind of a moot point - people often bring up how if Sakurai were shooting to live his dream, we'd have characters considered as far back as Melee, like Mach Rider, and we can definitely include Geno in that if he wasn't full of **** in that Mii costume interview. Does Geno make Sakurai happier than he thinks it would make the fans happy?

My least favorite part of hearing from the developer(s) is ambiguous statements. I get the need for it, but to be honest, silence would be better.

I would be cool with Shantae, but I would rather have someone else be the first playable indie character (not counting mii costumes). I don’t know who though, it has to be someone with a huge indie legacy. I guess you could say Shovel Knight but with his current situation, I have no clue.

You're describing Quote, who is beyond the only indie left (and in the first place, honestly) worthy of joining Smash imo.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I would be cool with Shantae, but I would rather have someone else be the first playable indie character (not counting mii costumes). I don’t know who though, it has to be someone with a huge indie legacy. I guess you could say Shovel Knight but with his current situation, I have no clue.

Shantae has had 4 very soon to be 5 games while Shovel Knight has only had one game. While Shovel Knight's game has eclipse all of Shantae's games combine in terms of sells and popularity, Shantae has the deeper roots and history with Nintendo. The first 3 Shantae games were originally Nintendo exclusives before WayForward went multi platform. Risky's Revenge got on the cover for a issue of Nintendo Power. Shantae has a great legacy within Nintendo among Indie franchises.

 

[Sigran101]

Saying “most” already implies that you’re choosing to ignore certain characters to support the theory lol. Not to mention that the theory is also counting Mario and Dr. Mario separately, which kind of goes against your “canonically spectate characters” thing

It also includes Samus and Zero suit who are the same character. I guess Zelda is technically not the same Zelda who becomes Shiek though to be fair.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Saying “most” already implies that you’re choosing to ignore certain characters to support the theory lol. Not to mention that the theory is also counting Mario and Dr. Mario separately, which kind of goes against your “canonically spectate characters” thing

Except not really when Samus and ZSS, Mario and Dr. Mario, and Zelda and Sheik are all two separate character slots despite being the same person in each instance. That's the core difference. For example, female and male Wii Fit share the same slot and are just outright "Wii Fit Trainer" no matter which you select. Same with victory screens. "This game's winner is... Villager" not female Villager or male Villager.

 

[link2702]

I still don’t buy the notion that Nintendo “chose the dlc”, least not all of it.

Doesn’t it seem strange that almost all the characters in the first pass were characters/from games sakurai himself greatly loves? And Nintendo “chose” them?

Unless Nintendo is trying to also make this smash a thank you tribute to both sakurai and iwata by surprising sakurai with plenty of characters he loves, I don’t buy the idea that Nintendo strictly chose the dlc.

 

[Polarthief]

Except not really when Samus and ZSS, Mario and Dr. Mario, and Zelda and Sheik are all two separate character slots despite being the same person in each instance. That's the core difference. For example, female and male Wii Fit share the same slot and are just outright "Wii Fit Trainer" no matter which you select. Same with victory screens. "This game's winner is... Villager" not female Villager or male Villager.

This is probably one of the best ways to go about seeing if a character is "different" or not. All the Koopalings, Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, etc all have their own unique voice line when picked and at the victory screen. The only exception to this would be Hero, but if they actually used names, you bet your ass all 4 of them would have their own unique name and voice line when picked/at the victory screen.

I still don’t buy the notion that Nintendo “chose the dlc”, least not all of it.

Doesn’t it seem strange that almost all the characters in the first pass were characters/from games sakurai himself greatly loves? And Nintendo “chose” them?

Unless Nintendo is trying to also make this smash a thank you tribute to both sakurai and iwata by surprising sakurai with plenty of characters he loves, I don’t buy the idea that Nintendo strictly chose the dlc.

Which is why I'll keep repeating that I don't think they "chose" but rather had final say. "Chose the DLC" was a very poor choice of words and should have instead been something like "Nintendo had final say on the DLC, but I was there during the decision-making process of making a list of characters", but with less words, because I'm really bad at picking the right words (and condensing them).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Smash Announcer: THIS GAME'S WINNER IS...

Fan 1: Erdrick?

Fan 2: Luminary?

Fan 3: Eight?

Fan 4: Solo?

Smash Announcer: HERO!!!

Fans: What?!

 

[Polarthief]

Smash Announcer: THIS GAME'S WINNER IS...

Fan 1: Erdrick?

Fan 2: Luminary?

Fan 3: Eight?

Fan 4: Solo?

Smash Announcer: HERO!!!

Fans: What?!

Yeah, honestly they should go back and redo the 4 heroes names. Use their titles, use the number of their games, use whatever I don't care, just use something other than "Hero" for all 4.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Honestly I think the road to 100 thing doesn’t even need to care about the number 100 to be real. The general idea is that we’d get one final character after the second fighter pass, which I think is somewhat likely no matter what, regardless of what the final character count is

Yeah... It's not that important either way; it's just sort of a neat coincidence if true.

 

[Deleted member]

Shantae has had 4 very soon to be 5 games while Shovel Knight has only had one game. While Shovel Knight's game has eclipse all of Shantae's games combine in terms of sells and popularity, Shantae has the deeper roots and history with Nintendo. The first 3 Shantae games were originally Nintendo exclusives before WayForward went multi platform. Risky's Revenge got on the cover for a issue of Nintendo Power. Shantae has a great legacy within Nintendo among Indie franchises.

Yeah I’m not denying Shantae’s legacy. Just in my opinion I would rather see someone else.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yeah I’m not denying Shantae’s legacy. Just in my opinion I would rather see someone else.

I respect that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If this year's E3 is basically a repeat of last year with a Square RPG character with a long legacy followed by a Western platforming mammal of the late 90's, that would be pretty funny.

 

[Polarthief]

Yeah I’m not denying Shantae’s legacy. Just in my opinion I would rather see someone else.

SK is the first indie character to at least be involved on the battlefield, yeah? I'd say he should get the promotion IMO. Granted, Sans is the first "playable" indie, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to promote him too since the premium costume is *basically* the character with a few less moving parts. Though I've always questioned what Sans's kit would be. SK would be much easier to make for sure.

I also had a whole thing typed up regarding Sans and Deltarune but TL;DR to not go too off-topic: I think Sans, despite being one of my favorite characters from my tied-for-my-favorite-game-of-all-time (the other being SMRPG), is left better as a costume due to a hard-to-stay-true-to-the-original kit. I could see a Deltarune character working though such as Kris, Susie, or Ralsei, potentially even Lancer, though I don't think he deserves a spot, especially not for the first indie.

If this year's E3 is basically a repeat of last year with a Square RPG character with a long legacy followed by a Western platforming mammal of the late 90's, that would be pretty funny.

Oh my god I didn't even think of that. What if DLC 6 is Waluigi or someone else out of nowhere (like Joker) and 7 is Geno (Hero) and 8 is Crash (BK), specifically in that order?

Despite having to wait for E3 to see Geno, I would actually love to see this happen now.

 

[Vector Victor]

If this year's E3 is basically a repeat of last year with a Square RPG character with a long legacy followed by a Western platforming mammal of the late 90's, that would be pretty funny.

Finally, Spoony Bard and Mr. Nutz's time to shine!

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

That's the core difference. For example, female and male Wii Fit share the same slot and are just outright "Wii Fit Trainer" no matter which you select. Same with victory screens. "This game's winner is... Villager" not female Villager or male Villager.

Except for Byleth, who, in Japanese, has two different names and announcer calls, and has both names written on the website. Going by your logic, that makes them separate. You can’t choose to not count Byleth while simultaneously counting Hero. They are all separate characters, I’m not sure why their name supposedly makes a difference.

And for what it’s worth, most gender swap characters have two separate announcer calls in the files, even if they are the same name.

 

[Fatmanonice]

People really shouldn't be disappointed with the fact that Season 2 is "The End™" especially when you consider:

-Smash 4 got about 10 months of DLC support. Ultimate is likely to get a minimum of two years.

-Smash 4 had three returning veterans and four original characters in DLC. Ultimate will have 12-13 original characters, literally the size of the original game's entire roster.

-Again, this game is going to have 23/24 newcomers when everything is said and done. That's a ****in' lot especially when you consider Melee's whole roster was technically 25/26.

-This game has already had a surreal amount of fanservice and Sakurai's probably going to turn this **** up to 11 and go into **** we thought would only ever be possible in MUGEN a decade ago.

-After 20 years of virgin sacrifices, we finally got characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo and this definitely won't be the end of Never Evers turning into "Coming Soon."

Again, as someone who has literally gotten gray hair in my timespan doing Smash speculation, this is probably the most satisfying a Smash game could ever wrap up and I do think that's entirely by design.

 

[Spatulo]

I still don’t buy the notion that Nintendo “chose the dlc”, least not all of it.

Doesn’t it seem strange that almost all the characters in the first pass were characters/from games sakurai himself greatly loves? And Nintendo “chose” them?

Unless Nintendo is trying to also make this smash a thank you tribute to both sakurai and iwata by surprising sakurai with plenty of characters he loves, I don’t buy the idea that Nintendo strictly chose the dlc.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the only standout “Sakurai” character is Terry. Sakurai likes JRPGs, so of course he likes Dragon Quest and Persona. That’s not a Sakurai-exclusive trait in the slightest. Even Terry has stuff going for him outside of his series being the inspiration for Smash, all those SNK arcade games on the eShop apparently sold really well

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Maybe it wasn’t his decision. Could’ve been on Nintendo’s part.

WHY WOULD NINTENDO NOT ALLOW GENO TO BE A FIGHTER?!!

ARE THEY TOO ****ING CHEAP TO PAY SQUARE ENIX WHATEVER THEY WANT TO ADD HIM IN?!!!

IS SQUARE ENIX TOO ****ING STINGY WITH GENO TO ALLOW NINTENDO TO ADD HIM IN?!!?!?!?!

WHAT THE **** IS THE REASON FOR GENO'S EXCLUSION?!!

 

[HudU]

Tune in on February 20 at 6 a.m. PT / 9 a.m ET for a roughly 25-minute livestreamed #AnimalCrossing: New Horizons Direct, featuring an in-depth look at Nook Inc.’s Deserted Island Getaway Package! pic.twitter.com/3j4EaUw8Pl

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) February 18, 2020

The classic 5 pm direct announcement

Ouch, at least that means another direct this month, right?

 

[Polarthief]

WHY WOULD NINTENDO NOT ALLOW GENO TO BE A FIGHTER?!!

ARE THEY TOO ****ING CHEAP TO PAY SQUARE ENIX WHATEVER THEY WANT TO ADD HIM IN?!!!

IS SQUARE ENIX TOO ****ING STINGY WITH GENO TO ALLOW NINTENDO TO ADD HIM IN?!!?!?!?!

WHAT THE **** IS THE REASON FOR GENO'S EXCLUSION?!!

Or a more likely scenario is Sakurai wanted Geno to end FP1, but Nintendo wanted Byleth instead, so they pushed Geno to FP2. Or SE could just be *****, but I'm really hoping that's not the case and the former to be the more likely outcome.

Ouch, at least that means another direct this month, right?

*Potentially*. Zippo is currently spot on and I'm sacrificing a goat tonight* to pray to whatever deity I can that he's legit and I get PM3 and will be happy for quite a long time.

* No I'm not actually doing this, geez guys. I might be a weirdo furry but I'm not *that* weird.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Or a more likely scenario is Sakurai wanted Geno to end FP1, but Nintendo wanted Byleth instead, so they pushed Geno to FP2. Or SE could just be *****, but I'm really hoping that's not the case and the former to be the more likely outcome.

If Geno's not either Number 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, or EVEN 11; I'll be REALLY P***ed Off at the Big N!!

 

[Polarthief]

If Geno's not either Number 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, or EVEN 11; I'll be REALLY P***ed Off at the Big N!!

Yeah I would be too, or really pissed off at SE, whoever is responsible.

 

[HudU]

So, here's a question.

You must upgrade only one Mii costume, one spirit and one AT to fully playable status. Geno must be one of them. Who are the other two?

Geno, Shantae/BDee (either one) and Isaac

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Yeah I would be too, or really pissed off at SE, whoever is responsible.

Yeah; there's only 2 Corporate entities that could be actively preventing Sakurai from Putting Geno in Smash;

Either Nintendo, Square Enix, or worst Case Scenario; THE BOTH OF THEM. . .

Geno, Shantae/BDee (either one) and Isaac

Geno, Bandana Waddle Dee & Isaac