Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

I have to say about this guy; how pathetic! What a pathetic debater or arguing person! I am sure he would not last long if he were here as a member of this forum.

You think Wynns is bad about arguing with people that don't agree with him? Thunder Productions would get permanently banned from these forums in less than a day if he joined Smashboards.

 

[Polarthief]

Yep. The dude literally says stuff like "Get over it! Geno or whoever else is a Spirit or an Assist Trophy is DECONFIRMED!!!" "They will never promote a Spirit or an Assist Trophy as a character in the same game so get over it!" The dude won't stop until you say "M'key!" or you just stop replying to him in general. I just don't reply to him at all as talking to him is a waste of time.

Man wouldn't it be amazing if Geno got promoted just to shut people like that the hell up? These fan rules are pretty toxic.

Exactly. It's so much easier to invent a convenient fan rule to "deconfirm" anyone I don't like. Then when people find solid evidence again me, I can hide behind circular reasoning and blind hatred. Isn't the internet wonderful?

"The goal post is here? Let's just move that further just out of reach because I say so, or ignore totally plausible evidence."

Oh and I'm definitely not tying Geno to CacoMallow specifically. He can absolutely still get in if CM is fake (in fact, I'd be fine with it being fake since I never cared about DoomGuy anyway).

 

[AugustusB]

So I had an idea for a Spirit fight.

Gaz (ACE)- Tiny Mii fighter Toad with Geno.
Toad will avoid conflict and Geno will hit like a truck with the occasional FS.
Could take place on Geno's stage if it transforms (Rose Town) or the Nintendogs stage (Living Room)

 

[Lord Woomy]

"The goal post is here? Let's just move that further just out of reach because I say so, or ignore totally plausible evidence."

I could only imagine that if a character like Bandana Dee is FP6 or something that the argument will become "Well, third party spirits are still a deconfirmation soooo..."

 

[CannonStreak]

You think Wynns is bad about arguing with people that don't agree with him? Thunder Productions would get permanently banned from these forums in less than a day if he joined Smashboards.

Yeah, and he would be a sore loser about it. I bet he would just go around in circles when he argues with others, whether it be here if he joined here or on the comment section of his videos, you know what I mean?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I could only imagine that if a character like Bandana Dee is FP6 or something that the argument will become "Well, third party spirits are still a deconfirmation soooo..."

Yeah, they will use that against all 3rd party characters especially against the likes of Geno and Shantae. They won't go into the fact at all that probably only imples 3rd party characters that become Spirits after the game come out a la Resident Evil.

 

[Polarthief]

I could only imagine that if a character like Bandana Dee is FP6 or something that the argument will become "Well, third party spirits are still a deconfirmation soooo..."

Oh you better bet your ass they would. Until a fan rule is destroyed by a reveal (or Sakurai himself confirming a fan rule is bullcrap, if that ever happens), some people will accept them as law, and it's dumb.

Even though I personally think Spirits and Costumes from FP1 (especially later FP1 packs) deconfirm for FP2, that's just my educated guess (not a fan rule) because why would they add an FP2 fighter to FP1 as something else? Just seems like a weird waste of time, but I'm not saying you 100% beyond of a shadow of a doubt won't see Altair, Sans, or Cuphead for FP2, they're just really, really, really, really, REALLY unlikely.

Also, base stuff is totally up for grabs, it just wasn't for FP1. Now that FP1 is done, we can confirm that base did in fact deconfirm for FP1, but that doesn't mean it deconfirms for the entire game!

 

[CannonStreak]

About the evidence for Spirits possibly not disconfirming as Megadoomer posted, back before that was posted, both sides on whether Spirits disconfirming or not had little evidence, if any for their claims. For those who believe Spirits do not disconfirm, we just received an extra bit of evidence on our side, don't you guys think?

 

[Firox]

I could only imagine that if a character like Bandana Dee is FP6 or something that the argument will become "Well, third party spirits are still a deconfirmation soooo..."

I'm 100% convinced that no matter who #6 is, people will still rationalize why it's bad for Geno.....even if it IS Geno!

"Sure, Geno might have gotten in as a fighter, but that doesn't mean he won't come back as a costume!"

EDIT: If I knew how to insert memes, I sooo would have put in the angry pointing monkey from Family Guy.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I'm 100% convinced that no matter who #6 is, people will still rationalize why it's bad for Geno.....even if it IS Geno!

"Yeah, that reveal trailer was really well made by whoever did it but I still think it's a fake trailer. It showing up near the end of a Nintendo direct is quite curious but I feel like it probably just means nothing and Geno fans are over thinking things again. They'd never include Geno anyway, he's a spirit and a dumb blue bad Pinocchio and I hate him."

 

[CannonStreak]

"Yeah, that reveal trailer was really well made by whoever did it but I still think it's a fake trailer. It showing up near the end of a Nintendo direct is quite curious but I feel like it probably just means nothing and Geno fans are over thinking things again. They'd never include Geno anyway, he's a spirit and a dumb blue bad Pinocchio and I hate him."

Not true at all, coming from them (not you, by the way). Even if it were, at least Geno's nose doesn't elongate when he lies.

Not that Geno would ever lie, of course.

 

[PatPrime]

I think one character will be a highly requested character like Geno or Crash and one will be a promotional Nintendo pick like a Sword & Shield Pokemon rep. The rest will probably be characters from franchises that Sakurai had great experiences with in the past. So yeah, I think the 2nd Pass will almost parallel the first one.

If that ends up happening, then **** buying the second pass ever. Terry is fine and Banjo was one of my most wanted but I wish we didn't get 3 JRPG characters and had some more variety in that regard. I currently don't trust Sakurai enough to buy the second pass. Even if it started strong, I still would be hesitant.

 

[Polarthief]

Not that Geno would ever lie, of course.

Idk man, I've never heard of anyone called "♪!?", so he totally made up some bullcrap name just to make him seem more important than he is. (/s)

 

[CannonStreak]

Idk man, I've never heard of anyone called "♪!?", so he totally made up some bullcrap name just to make him seem more important than he is. (/s)

Very funny, wise guy!

 

[Lord Woomy]

Idk man, I've never heard of anyone called "♪!?", so he totally made up some bullcrap name just to make him seem more important than he is. (/s)

His name is foreign, don't be racist. /s

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If that ends up happening, then **** buying the second pass ever. Terry is fine and Banjo was one of my most wanted but I wish we didn't get 3 JRPG characters and had some more variety in that regard. I currently don't trust Sakurai enough to buy the second pass. Even if it started strong, I still would be hesitant.

Honestly, another Ballot/popular request like Geno or Shantae and perhaps a Soul Calibur character like Yoshimitsu or Nightmare would be more than enough to satisfied my needs for this game. I already got Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie in this game which are all characters I waited to see get in since Melee's release/17 to 18 years. I just need at least one more character I decently want and I will call it quits for this game.

 

[MisterMike]

So I had an idea for a Spirit fight.

Gaz (ACE)- Tiny Mii fighter Toad with Geno.
Toad will avoid conflict and Geno will hit like a truck with the occasional FS.
Could take place on Geno's stage if it transforms (Rose Town) or the Nintendogs stage (Living Room)

No no no, GALAXY BRAIN TIME: The Geno is tiny and the Mii Brawler is normal size, because that's how it is during the cutscene where you play with him.

 

[Polarthief]

His name is foreign, don't be racist. /s

True, we do have people named "L-A" (pronounced LaDashAh), so I guess Star Spirits can be worse at naming their children than Humans are. (not using /s anymore because it's so obvious, but typing this tells you I used /s, CRAP I've gone full redundant now)

 

[AugustusB]

No no no, GALAXY BRAIN TIME: The Geno is tiny and the Mii Brawler is normal size, because that's how it is during the cutscene where you play with him.

I am the fool!! Lord and Geno still hits like a truck...that is terrifying.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So whether it's Geno or someone else, who is y'alls' most wanted character? Mine is Goemon a ninja with a chain pipe that throws ryo/coins that can summon a giant ninja Power Rangers type robot called Impact.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

So whether it's Geno or someone else, who is y'alls' most wanted character? Mine is Goemon a ninja with a chain pipe that throws ryo/coins that can summon a giant ninja Power Rangers type robot called Impact.

Are you ready for this? It's Geno.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Three cups of coffee and an Addreall and, oh boy, it's time for more theorycrafting! Today's topic, analyzing Sakurai's dumps... The Mii costume ones. So, per usual, we're using Power of Six theory as our foundation. Quick recap:

"The theory that, when the Fighter's Pass was originally one and done, each pack was meant to have 6 Mii costumes that thematically fit with the pack's character and bring back all 15 of the Smash 4 third party DLC costumes."

Here is our theoretical model:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Geno and Chocobo, Square theme)

-Banjo (4 Megaman, Goemon, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, Jacky, and Heihachi, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Ancient Armor, Rex, Lloyd, Gil, Monster Hunter, and Rathalos, Medieval Fantasy RPG theme)

Here's what we actually wound up with:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest theme)

-Banjo (2 Megaman, Goemon, Sans, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, and Jacky, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Altair, Rabbids, 2 Megaman, and Cuphead, the "Dump 2": the Second Dumping)

Smash 4 costumes that are MIA:

-Geno and Chocobo (Square)
-Lloyd, Gil, and Heihachi (Namco)
-Rathalos and Monster Hunter (Capcom)

Using this model, we've already theorized that 3 of the 6 Season 2 characters will be Square, Namco, and Capcom. What I realized today is that we can take this even further by looking at Sakurai's dumps under a microscope. First question to be asked, what is the purpose of a "dump?" The answer is to get rid of excess. The Fighter's Pass wound up having two dumps where the Mii costumes had little to do with the actual character; why? Let's go into that.

One strong point of analysis is that SEGA saw all of its Smash 4 costumes return in the Fighter's Pass. This presents the strong argument that we're not going to be seeing anymore SEGA characters because, if we were, one of the pairs would have been saved at the very least. What companies did we see in the pass but only as Mii costumes? Konami (Goemon), the Pokemon Company (Rocket Grunt), Ubisoft (Ezio and Rabbids), and the two indies (Sans and Cuphead). Using the same frame of analysis as we did SEGA, we can likely safely deduce that these companies won't be getting characters in the future because, again, if they were, why would they have content now? This makes the dumps a lot more interesting and perhaps gives them more meaning than we originally thought.

Banjo is RARE/Microsoft but came with no RARE/Microsoft costumes and Byleth is Nintendo but came with no Nintendo costumes. Very strange. As Power of Six shows us, Byleth very easily could have come with Rex and Ancient Armor but didn't. Two Nintendo costumes that very easily fit Byleth's theme but were made bonuses instead. Again, a very strange decision... Or is it?

Going off this model we set up, let's propose that the reason these two dumps happened was because Microsoft and Nintendo costumes were being saved for later. What does this imply? It's very simple: there's a pack coming later that's Nintendo and one that's Microsoft. As pointed out, Mii costume theming appears to be very deliberate, even with the dumps. The "dumps" are either excess or companies that won't have their own pack. Let's bring Geno in because I like to see people squirm.

"Geno and Chocobo weren't in Hero's pack because they wanted to keep the theme strictly Dragon Quest." Exactly. Think about it. Traditionally, Dragon Quest is the Enix side of Square Enix. Nowadays, it's technically owned by Armor Project and Bird Studio. It's not purely Square... But Geno and Chocobo are. See where I'm going with this? Using this observation, we can not only theorize that the purely Square content is being saved for another pack but this was done deliberately. So, ladies and gentlemen, what does this probably tell us? It tells us that the mystery Square Enix character is, just that, a purely Square character. Again, theming. If it was anything else, there would be no need to "save" Geno and Chocobo for later. 2B is part Platinum. Sora is Disney. Pretty groovy.

So, in conclusion, here's some things we can gather based on today's theorycraft:

-We already established that Square, Namco, and Capcom were highly probable based on missing Mii costumes but we can take this even further by looking at missing companies represented by Mii costumes.

-Based on the dumps and theming, we now have a strong hypothesis that two of the six packs will be Microsoft and Nintendo.

-We also have a new theory that our mystery Square Enix character will be a purely Square character.

Hope you all have fun with this.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is exactly why I think he'd be a better pick for FP6: he's safe, but also strong, yet not Geno or Crash strong.

Remember, this is based off the pattern of Smash starting strong, then hitting CRAZY hard in the middle, then petering off to setup for the next strong hit.

Ryu Hayabusa is solid and strong while Waluigi could easily cause enough chaos to bring back Mark Hamill's voice out of retirement for even just a moment.

This is less about who I want to see and who I think is the best and most likely pick based off this pattern, though I am rooting for Hayabusa for a bud of mine.

I really don't see him as that strong a start. He seems like such a meh character it'd be hard to not go "ok, next."

Smash fans with all the reveals including the popular ones:

 

[Firox]

If that ends up happening, then **** buying the second pass ever. Terry is fine and Banjo was one of my most wanted but I wish we didn't get 3 JRPG characters and had some more variety in that regard. I currently don't trust Sakurai enough to buy the second pass. Even if it started strong, I still would be hesitant.

I gotta admit, the last pass doesn't instill a lot of confidence that the next one will be very fan servicey. FP1 was basically:

1 Fan Pick
1 Nintendo Shill (at least one obvious one cuz Hero could technically make 2)
3 Sakurai picks

Granted, all the characters are still fun and unique, but if FP2 is anything similar, then we'd probably be looking at only 1-2 fan picks and the rest being random Sakurai picks or Nintendo Shills. I would be downright horrified if I were to buy the mystery box only to find 5/6 characters being utterly terrible from a hype perspective. No doubt they would each have interesting play, but still, Nintendo would interpret my purchase as "I lovingly eat your garbage with a smile on my face. Please, disregard my wants and desires. Not my will, but thine be done, oh Holy Nintendo." All the more reason why #6 needs to blow us out of the water. It needs to say, "Oh, yeah.....we're going there."

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I gotta admit, the last pass doesn't instill a lot of confidence that the next one will be very fan servicey. FP1 was basically:

1 Fan Pick
1 Nintendo Shill (at least one obvious one cuz Hero could technically make 2)
3 Sakurai picks

Granted, all the characters are still fun and unique, but if FP2 is anything similar, then we'd probably be looking at only 1-2 fan picks and the rest being random Sakurai picks or Nintendo Shills. I would be downright horrified if I were to buy the mystery box only to find 5/6 characters being utterly terrible from a hype perspective. No doubt they would each have interesting play, but still, Nintendo would interpret my purchase as "I lovingly eat your garbage with a smile on my face. Please, disregard my wants and desires. Not my will, but thine be done, oh Holy Nintendo." All the more reason why #6 needs to blow us out of the water. It needs to say, "Oh, yeah.....we're going there."

If Nintendo were smart, they would want Sakurai to at least put half of the Season Pass 2 characters as fan service ones. But I'm afraid things won't be going that route as Nintendo probably thinks they know what is best for us and them.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I like to imagine that Nintendo has geno ready to go, but they're waiting for his planned reveal. Then the Byleth backlash happens (you're delusional if you think it didn't) and they pick up the red telephone that has a direct line to Sakurai's office, and they're just like:

Wouldn't that be wild?

 

[egaddmario]

I gotta admit, the last pass doesn't instill a lot of confidence that the next one will be very fan servicey. FP1 was basically:

1 Fan Pick
1 Nintendo Shill (at least one obvious one cuz Hero could technically make 2)
3 Sakurai picks

Granted, all the characters are still fun and unique, but if FP2 is anything similar, then we'd probably be looking at only 1-2 fan picks and the rest being random Sakurai picks or Nintendo Shills. I would be downright horrified if I were to buy the mystery box only to find 5/6 characters being utterly terrible from a hype perspective. No doubt they would each have interesting play, but still, Nintendo would interpret my purchase as "I lovingly eat your garbage with a smile on my face. Please, disregard my wants and desires. Not my will, but thine be done, oh Holy Nintendo." All the more reason why #6 needs to blow us out of the water. It needs to say, "Oh, yeah.....we're going there."

But not everyone cares what the contents of FP2 are. Hell, i didn't care what the contents of FP1 were- i was buying it regardless because i want all the characters. Sure, it'd be nicer if the characters were ones i wanted, but i'm here for Mr. Sakurai's wild ride.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

But not everyone cares what the contents of FP2 are. Hell, i didn't care what the contents of FP1 were- i was buying it regardless because i want all the characters. Sure, it'd be nicer if the characters were ones i wanted, but i'm here for Mr. Sakurai's wild ride.

This is the reason Nintendo has little incentive to include more fan picks. They know people are just gonna buy it anyway.

 

[Megadoomer]

If Nintendo were smart, they would want Sakurai to at least put half of the Season Pass 2 characters as fan service ones. But I'm afraid things won't be going that route as Nintendo probably thinks they know what is best for us and them.

The problem is that what's fanservice for one person might be a terrible choice for another. Obviously, most of us would be thrilled to see Geno in Smash, but others would have no idea who he is since they never played Super Mario RPG. (it might not be an issue, since Smash DLC seems to skew towards an older audience, but it might come up in Europe, where Mario RPG wasn't available until 2008)

Some people might be excited for Waluigi, while others find the character annoying or feel like other Nintendo franchises should be focused on. People would be thrilled if the Dragonborn from Skyrim made it in, but others would complain because they would have preferred Doomguy, Vault Boy, or Commander Keen. Even long-awaited fan favourites like Ridley and Banjo-Kazooie had their detractors. There's no guaranteed way to please everybody.

 

[Polarthief]

3 Sakurai picks

Obligatory reminder that NINTENDO picked all of FP1, not Sakurai. We don't know who picked FP2 though.

 

[Aerospherology]

I like to imagine that Nintendo has geno ready to go, but they're waiting for his planned reveal. Then the Byleth backlash happens (you're delusional if you think it didn't) and they pick up the red telephone that has a direct line to Sakurai's office, and they're just like:
View attachment 260290
Wouldn't that be wild?

Unbox THE DOLL

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The problem is that what's fanservice for one person might be a terrible choice for another. Obviously, most of us would be thrilled to see Geno in Smash, but others would have no idea who he is since they never played Super Mario RPG. (it might not be an issue, since Smash DLC seems to skew towards an older audience, but it might come up in Europe, where Mario RPG wasn't available until 2008)

Some people might be excited for Waluigi, while others find the character annoying or feel like other Nintendo franchises should be focused on. People would be thrilled if the Dragonborn from Skyrim made it in, but others would complain because they would have preferred Doomguy, Vault Boy, or Commander Keen. Even long-awaited fan favourites like Ridley and Banjo-Kazooie had their detractors. There's no guaranteed way to please everybody.

True, but fan service characters like Geno, Waluigi, Isaac, Shantae, ect would please a ton of people which would be a good chunk of the demographic.

 

[MisterMike]

So whether it's Geno or someone else, who is y'alls' most wanted character? Mine is Goemon a ninja with a chain pipe that throws ryo/coins that can summon a giant ninja Power Rangers type robot called Impact.

I was satisfied with the Smash roster since Roy came back for Smash 4, and since King K. Rool and Banjo came to the game, there aren't any characters left that I can say I really want to that degree.

• I'm fully in support of getting Geno in, of course. Wouldn't be here right now if I didn't think he had a shot of making it in.
• Doomguy is another one I think would be sick, regardless of how likely it is at the moment.
• While I didn't care about him at first, I've come around to Ryu Hayabus getting in.
• Crash Bandicoot would be pretty cool as well, due to his immense and varied moveset.
• If the remaining costumes are any indication, we're likely to get a Namco character some time in the future. It could either be Heihachi or Lloyd, but while I wouldn't mind the former, the latter seems more likely to me.
• Despite being unlikely, there are some Echo Fighters I would love to see happen some time, mainly Medusa from Kid Icarus and Black Shadow from F-Zero. Shadow the Hedgehog would be cool as well.

Yeah, not much here, really.

Three cups of coffee and an Addreall and, oh boy, it's time for more theorycrafting! Today's topic, analyzing Sakurai's dumps... The Mii costume ones. So, per usual, we're using Power of Six theory as our foundation. Quick recap:

"The theory that, when the Fighter's Pass was originally one and done, each pack was meant to have 6 Mii costumes that thematically fit with the pack's character and bring back all 15 of the Smash 4 third party DLC costumes."

Here is our theoretical model:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Geno and Chocobo, Square theme)

-Banjo (4 Megaman, Goemon, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, Jacky, and Heihachi, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Ancient Armor, Rex, Lloyd, Gil, Monster Hunter, and Rathalos, Medieval Fantasy RPG theme)

Here's what we actually wound up with:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest theme)

-Banjo (2 Megaman, Goemon, Sans, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, and Jacky, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Altair, Rabbids, 2 Megaman, and Cuphead, the "Dump 2": the Second Dumping)

Smash 4 costumes that are MIA:

-Geno and Chocobo (Square)
-Lloyd, Gil, and Heihachi (Namco)
-Rathalos and Monster Hunter (Capcom)

Using this model, we've already theorized that 3 of the 6 Season 2 characters will be Square, Namco, and Capcom. What I realized today is that we can take this even further by looking at Sakurai's dumps under a microscope. First question to be asked, what is the purpose of a "dump?" The answer is to get rid of excess. The Fighter's Pass wound up having two dumps where the Mii costumes had little to do with the actual character; why? Let's go into that.

One strong point of analysis is that SEGA saw all of its Smash 4 costumes return in the Fighter's Pass. This presents the strong argument that we're not going to be seeing anymore SEGA characters because, if we were, one of the pairs would have been saved at the very least. What companies did we see in the pass but only as Mii costumes? Konami (Goemon), the Pokemon Company (Rocket Grunt), Ubisoft (Ezio and Rabbids), and the two indies (Sans and Cuphead). Using the same frame of analysis as we did SEGA, we can likely safely deduce that these companies won't be getting characters in the future because, again, if they were, why would they have content now? This makes the dumps a lot more interesting and perhaps gives them more meaning than we originally thought.

Banjo is RARE/Microsoft but came with no RARE/Microsoft costumes and Byleth is Nintendo but came with no Nintendo costumes. Very strange. As Power of Six shows us, Byleth very easily could have come with Rex and Ancient Armor but didn't. Two Nintendo costumes that very easily fit Byleth's theme but were made bonuses instead. Again, a very strange decision... Or is it?

Going off this model we set up, let's propose that the reason these two dumps happened was because Microsoft and Nintendo costumes were being saved for later. What does this imply? It's very simple: there's a pack coming later that's Nintendo and one that's Microsoft. As pointed out, Mii costume theming appears to be very deliberate, even with the dumps. The "dumps" are either excess or companies that won't have their own pack. Let's bring Geno in because I like to see people squirm.

"Geno and Chocobo weren't in Hero's pack because they wanted to keep the theme strictly Dragon Quest." Exactly. Think about it. Traditionally, Dragon Quest is the Enix side of Square Enix. Nowadays, it's technically owned by Armor Project and Bird Studio. It's not purely Square... But Geno and Chocobo are. See where I'm going with this? Using this observation, we can not only theorize that the purely Square content is being saved for another pack. So, ladies and gentlemen, what does this probably tell us? It tells us that the mystery Square Enix character is, just that, a purely Square character. Again, theming. If it was anything else, there would be no need to "save" Geno and Chocobo for later. 2B is part Platinum. Sora is Disney. Pretty groovy.

So, in conclusion, here's some things we can gather based on today's theorycraft:

-We already established that Square, Namco, and Capcom were highly probable based on missing Mii costumes but we can take this even further by looking at missing companies represented by Mii costumes.

-Based on the dumps and theming, we now have a strong hypothesis that two of the six packs will be Microsoft and Nintendo.

-We also have a new theory that our mystery Square Enix character will be a purely Square character.

Hope you all have fun with this.

An interesting theory. I don't really agree that there's any real indication of more Microsoft content. Check the trademarks, Cuphead isn't owned by Microsoft Studios, they're entirely owned by Studio MDHR. Not ruling it out, of course, but I don't think there's enough to go off of to make a claim like that. The SquareEnix stuff is a good point, though.

Also, pour one out for my boy Indies. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

 

[Firox]

Three cups of coffee and an Addreall and, oh boy, it's time for more theorycrafting! Today's topic, analyzing Sakurai's dumps... The Mii costume ones. So, per usual, we're using Power of Six theory as our foundation. Quick recap:

"The theory that, when the Fighter's Pass was originally one and done, each pack was meant to have 6 Mii costumes that thematically fit with the pack's character and bring back all 15 of the Smash 4 third party DLC costumes."

Here is our theoretical model:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Geno and Chocobo, Square theme)

-Banjo (4 Megaman, Goemon, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, Jacky, and Heihachi, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Ancient Armor, Rex, Lloyd, Gil, Monster Hunter, and Rathalos, Medieval Fantasy RPG theme)

Here's what we actually wound up with:

-Joker (4 Persona, Tails and Knuckles, SEGA theme)

-Hero (4 Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest theme)

-Banjo (2 Megaman, Goemon, Sans, and Rocket Grunt, the "Dump")

-Terry (3 SNK, Akira, and Jacky, Fighting Game theme)

-Byleth (Altair, Rabbids, 2 Megaman, and Cuphead, the "Dump 2": the Second Dumping)

Smash 4 costumes that are MIA:

-Geno and Chocobo (Square)
-Lloyd, Gil, and Heihachi (Namco)
-Rathalos and Monster Hunter (Capcom)

Using this model, we've already theorized that 3 of the 6 Season 2 characters will be Square, Namco, and Capcom. What I realized today is that we can take this even further by looking at Sakurai's dumps under a microscope. First question to be asked, what is the purpose of a "dump?" The answer is to get rid of excess. The Fighter's Pass wound up having two dumps where the Mii costumes had little to do with the actual character; why? Let's go into that.

One strong point of analysis is that SEGA saw all of its Smash 4 costumes return in the Fighter's Pass. This presents the strong argument that we're not going to be seeing anymore SEGA characters because, if we were, one of the pairs would have been saved at the very least. What companies did we see in the pass but only as Mii costumes? Konami (Goemon), the Pokemon Company (Rocket Grunt), Ubisoft (Ezio and Rabbids), and the two indies (Sans and Cuphead). Using the same frame of analysis as we did SEGA, we can likely safely deduce that these companies won't be getting characters in the future because, again, if they were, why would they have content now? This makes the dumps a lot more interesting and perhaps gives them more meaning than we originally thought.

Banjo is RARE/Microsoft but came with no RARE/Microsoft costumes and Byleth is Nintendo but came with no Nintendo costumes. Very strange. As Power of Six shows us, Byleth very easily could have come with Rex and Ancient Armor but didn't. Two Nintendo costumes that very easily fit Byleth's theme but were made bonuses instead. Again, a very strange decision... Or is it?

Going off this model we set up, let's propose that the reason these two dumps happened was because Microsoft and Nintendo costumes were being saved for later. What does this imply? It's very simple: there's a pack coming later that's Nintendo and one that's Microsoft. As pointed out, Mii costume theming appears to be very deliberate, even with the dumps. The "dumps" are either excess or companies that won't have their own pack. Let's bring Geno in because I like to see people squirm.

"Geno and Chocobo weren't in Hero's pack because they wanted to keep the theme strictly Dragon Quest." Exactly. Think about it. Traditionally, Dragon Quest is the Enix side of Square Enix. Nowadays, it's technically owned by Armor Project and Bird Studio. It's not purely Square... But Geno and Chocobo are. See where I'm going with this? Using this observation, we can not only theorize that the purely Square content is being saved for another pack. So, ladies and gentlemen, what does this probably tell us? It tells us that the mystery Square Enix character is, just that, a purely Square character. Again, theming. If it was anything else, there would be no need to "save" Geno and Chocobo for later. 2B is part Platinum. Sora is Disney. Pretty groovy.

So, in conclusion, here's some things we can gather based on today's theorycraft:

-We already established that Square, Namco, and Capcom were highly probable based on missing Mii costumes but we can take this even further by looking at missing companies represented by Mii costumes.

-Based on the dumps and theming, we now have a strong hypothesis that two of the six packs will be Microsoft and Nintendo.

-We also have a new theory that our mystery Square Enix character will be a purely Square character.

Hope you all have fun with this.

*Slow clap* Well done. This is objectively the best theory crafting I've seen from you yet (not to bash your other stuff, but this is incredibly logical and concrete). Seems incredibly probable that you're right, and if so, that means that FP would be looking at a Capcom rep, Namco rep, Square rep, Nintendo rep, and Microsoft rep. Without even knowing the exact characters, this is making my mouth water. The only question I have for you is this:

What evidence do you have for a Microsoft rep? I don't recall you giving any evidence as to why Banjo would have (or should have) had any microsoft costumes.

Obligatory reminder that NINTENDO picked all of FP1, not Sakurai. We don't know who picked FP2 though.

Obligatory reminder that:

A) Sakurai can and has lied in the past *cough* Rex *cough* (glares at Byleth)

B) Atlus specifically spoke of how Sakurai emphatically approached them for Joker and that he's a massive fan of the Persona series. We really don't know how much of the pass is Nintendo or actually Sakurai. If Nintendo had given him a theoretical list of 50 characters to choose from, I would argue that Sakurai still retained the lion's share of control. He could have simply used the "Nintendo chose these" to get trolls off his back for his choice of characters.

But not everyone cares what the contents of FP2 are. Hell, i didn't care what the contents of FP1 were- i was buying it regardless because i want all the characters. Sure, it'd be nicer if the characters were ones i wanted, but i'm here for Mr. Sakurai's wild ride.

Fair enough, however, others might want to be more frugal with their financial vote.

 

[Rangez]

The problem is that what's fanservice for one person might be a terrible choice for another. Obviously, most of us would be thrilled to see Geno in Smash, but others would have no idea who he is since they never played Super Mario RPG. (it might not be an issue, since Smash DLC seems to skew towards an older audience, but it might come up in Europe, where Mario RPG wasn't available until 2008)

Some people might be excited for Waluigi, while others find the character annoying or feel like other Nintendo franchises should be focused on. People would be thrilled if the Dragonborn from Skyrim made it in, but others would complain because they would have preferred Doomguy, Vault Boy, or Commander Keen. Even long-awaited fan favourites like Ridley and Banjo-Kazooie had their detractors. There's no guaranteed way to please everybody.

Yeah, we've defintitely all seen that with quite a number of characters.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

R Rangez dude, that avatar is amazing! All the Season Pass fighters doing the Ginyu Force pose lmao!

 

[Polarthief]

The problem is that what's fanservice for one person might be a terrible choice for another.

Some people might be excited for Waluigi, while others find the character annoying or feel like other Nintendo franchises should be focused on. People would be thrilled if the Dragonborn from Skyrim made it in, but others would complain because they would have preferred Doomguy, Vault Boy, or Commander Keen. Even long-awaited fan favourites like Ridley and Banjo-Kazooie had their detractors. There's no guaranteed way to please everybody.

I mean, duh? I don't think 100% of humanity has ever agreed on any one thing, ever. I'd be willing to bet you anything there's at least one person in existence who thought breathing or (clean and drinkable) water is bad for you.

There's never pleasing 100% of your fans, but you can please as many as possible with highly-requested characters and big-name characters from games that people really like. It might be annoying but sometimes being the biggest and loudest leads to someone noticing, especially if it's feasible to get the character in the game; this is probably the only reason someone like Sora isn't in yet because not only do you have to talk to Square, who are already notorious dickbags, but getting DISNEY on board would be an even bigger hurdle, despite Sora clearly being among the biggest names across all 3 majorly tracked areas: West, East, and Europe.

 

[valkiriforce]

To be honest I'm still waiting for a character that will make me rush out to buy them the day they get released. I only have the Piranha Plant because I got it for free, and while I liked the selection of Joker to start off the first pass, he's not someone that would make me rush out to buy the character (plus I haven't even played any Persona games). Banjo comes closest for being the most appealing character for me, and I still have yet to actually buy them. I think Terry's a neat addition, but I'm not really as attached to Fatal Fury or King of Fighters as some others would be. I don't have any attachment to the remaining characters so it seems unlikely if I'll ever get around to buying them at some point. It just seems like I've been dragging my feet on this whole fighter's pass thing and I would most likely go for Banjo at this point, and maybe Joker at a later time.

Not planning on buying the second pass - I'm pretty much going to wait for characters that interest me. Hopefully one of them is Geno so I can finally budge and blow my dough on our worthy blue boi.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I mean, duh? I don't think 100% of humanity has ever agreed on any one thing, ever. I'd be willing to bet you anything there's at least one person in existence who thought breathing or (clean and drinkable) water is bad for you.

There's never pleasing 100% of your fans, but you can please as many as possible with highly-requested characters and big-name characters from games that people really like. It might be annoying but sometimes being the biggest and loudest leads to someone noticing, especially if it's feasible to get the character in the game; this is probably the only reason someone like Sora isn't in yet because not only do you have to talk to Square, who are already notorious dickbags, but getting DISNEY on board would be an even bigger hurdle, despite Sora clearly being among the biggest names across all 3 majorly tracked areas: West, East, and Europe.

I actually think there are even some people on this Earth that don't like a single character that has ever been in the roster period.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I actually think there are even some people on this Earth that don't like a single character that has ever been in the roster period.

****ing Mario? Yeah, of course Nintendo just had to advertise Mario Teaches Typing like that. Why couldn't we have gotten something more deserving like Ninten from Mother?