Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Wow. This thread really jumped a lot of pages since I was last here.

What's been going on?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, I admit, I would be salty if Geno was a Mii costume with Hero but, as much as I hate it, I would have eventually understood. It was a big fan favorite vs adding a franchise that virtually no one had been allowed to use in its 30+ years of life and a juggernaut in your home country.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Honestly I’d be fine with anyone but Lloyd Irving.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Wow. This thread really jumped a lot of pages since I was last here.

What's been going on?

We've been playing Monopoly and talking about Geno since the whole time you've been gone that's what lol!

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I would prepare to be bored and non-hype then.



Thank you for saying all this so I didn't have to type it out. A couple more things I would add though.

• Canonically and consistently, Smash has ended on characters that are less than earth-shattering in terms of hype reveals
• Sakurai JUST said that being fun to play is more important than being recognizable. Lloyd is no longer relevant in terms of being the main character of the Tales Of series, but he is very much the fan pick, and thus falls into this category perfectly. Those looking at s Dark Souls rep immediately forgot what Sakurai said.
• Having two swords could offer Sakurai a unique moveset potential while not being too similar to other sword wielders.
• Heihachi was said that he can't be done due to the complexity of Tekken. Tekken has too many moves with similar commands and doesn't really have special moves like other traditional fighting games and moves are rather complex for inputs which tends to put an entry wall as the better moves have more difficult inputs. This makes it more likely that Heihachi's costume will return over Lloyd's in terms of picking one over the other.
• Lastly, Tales Of is starting to swirl a bit within certain circles of conversation that matters. It may not mean much now, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something new with the Tales Of series happened and then Lloyd got revealed for Smash at the VGAs.

Are you referring to when Sabis source mentioned Tales news? In the last part?

 

[Firox]

I'm surprise nobody is talking about Travis Touchdown potentially being in Smash Bros.

I've literally said at least three times that I think Travis Touchdown, KOS-MOS, Arle and Rayman should be our most likely frontrunners right now.

 

[Vector Victor]

Yeah, I admit, I would be salty if Geno was a Mii costume with Hero but, as much as I hate it, I would have eventually understood. It was a big fan favorite vs adding a franchise that virtually no one had been allowed to use in its 30+ years of life and a juggernaut in your home country.

But....Super Mario RPG is only 20 years old.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

But....Super Mario RPG is only 20 years old.

OBJECTION!!! Actually, it's 23 years old.

 

[Rohanx17]

While I'm not entirely happy with how his words compared to his perceived actions I wouldnt trade it for the world because that interview was a big part in mobilizing those who had given up or thought it was too impossible to try.

That said untill he talks we can't say for sure what the truth of the matter is. Maybe he is far less enthusiastic about geno then he let on, or maybe he really just couldn't get geno in untill now. Remember the all important phrase that the collaboration can't happen unless both companies want it. While square is probably not as stingy as believed it would make total sense that if offered the chance to send a character to smash they would far prefer somthing that does somthing for them as a bussiness like cloud or dragon quest then a useless character like geno. Sakurai might have fought for the guy but if square doesn't want it he said he isn't going to press on, and likely was given the costume as a compromise in the cloud negotiation.

Come smash ultimate, he has the impossible task of convincing them to let cloud be in base. There is no way he had any leverage for somthing one sided like geno. Then for dlc maybe he tried again but square wanted to again promote another of their biggest franchises. Tempted by dragon quest content he easily agreed and the rest is history. With yet another wave it's possible 3rd times the charm and square decided to throw him a bone for how much of a good sport he's been about it and let him have geno. I mean it's clear geno himself wasn't the problem or his icon and spirit wouldn't have made it in base as well as the likely return of the costume with hero.

All I'm saying is let's here sakurai out before we decide what his true feelings about the puppet are. Given how much info about every other dlc choice has come out so far it wouldn't be surprising when that comes around for geno that he uses that time to do just that.

 

[Spatulo]

Yeah, I admit, I would be salty if Geno was a Mii costume with Hero but, as much as I hate it, I would have eventually understood. It was a big fan favorite vs adding a franchise that virtually no one had been allowed to use in its 30+ years of life and a juggernaut in your home country.

Isn’t Smash the only game where two Dragon Quest protags can fight each other? In addition to being the only game with a DQ character and a Final Fantasy character?

My idea for Geno's Classic Mode route: Searching for Stars.

In each route, Mario, Peach and Bowser are his allies.

Round 1: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede and R.O.B..
Round 2: Olimar and three R.O.B.s.
Round 3: Rosalina & Luma and three R.O.B.s.
Round 4: Marx.
Round 5: Fox, Falco, Wolf and R.O.B.
Bonus Game.
Round 6: Giant Marth (his sword is a stand in for Exor).
Round 7: Giant grey King Dedede (stand in for Smithy).

Man three allies would make Marx much more bearable lol. Why all the ROBs?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Isn’t Smash the only game where two Dragon Quest protags can fight each other? In addition to being the only game with a DQ character and a Final Fantasy character?

I believe so. It's the only game where those 4 Dragon Quest protagonist are all together at once like that.

Edit: I have to go to work in several hours, so I'm going to hit the hay. See you guys tomorrow peace!

 

[Latyon]

Man three allies would make Marx much more bearable lol. Why all the ROBs?

Presumably to represent Smithy's Machine Mades

 

[RingJ5]

Ok but those remakes were of the games that were already on Nintendo systems. Really any FF 7-15 didn't start making their way to Nintendo consoles to well after Cloud was in Smash. It may have been multiplat but notice how those plats were not Nintendo. Now look at Persona. Yeah I suppose they have a history with Playstation as well and yet spin offs of the series still appear on Nintendo systems. In fact, Q2 was already announced before Joker came so it's not like the series has never left its home console. Unless you want to stick with the mainline series only in which case again FF moved off of Nintendo as well. Furthermore, FF wasn't picked due to any history with Nintendo or else they wouldn't have gone with the Final Fantasy famous for leaving Nintendo. Basically Joker was impossible because fans failed to learn their lesson from Cloud. That and he was so much smaller than any 3rd party added to that point. He did change the game for a lot of people I will admit and his inclusion was shocking but most of Joker's surprise came because of fan rules. Take those away and he wouldn't have been a very strong opening. I love P5 and his inclusion makes me happy but looking at objectively he has the exact same problems Llyod has and yet they still added him. They still put him in an important spot. I don't see how if Joker can do it as fighter 1 Llyod couldn't as fighter 5.
I'm sure you have seen support what I'm saying is you're probably overestimating how large it is. Llyod has never had a large presence in the Smash space. He's been around but to call him a major fan request is just so inaccurate. Take Doom Guy for example. His support is obviously genuine, but would you say he's been a large request in the Smash fanbase before leaks made people think about him more? No. Or a better example might be Sora. He's been around in Smash as a request for a while, however, he was never a large request in the Smash space until Sakurai started focusing on 3rd parties and KH3. His support was genuine but his presence small. It's like for Llyod. He's more around now especially with Namco looking so good as 5 but prior to this, he was not a character someone could point at and call a heavily demanded character.
It was nominated for the VGA because it was a good game. It doesn't mean it's not still niche. It did do great and better than RPGs usually do but it's still kind of niche and doesn't mean it wouldn't have made more sense in Japan where such games have a much stronger following.

See, now here’s the ugly part where things start really, really seeping into subjective opinion: You think that Joker made for a poor first character, I don’t think that in the slightest. You think that the Joker reveal would have made more sense somewhere in Japan, I don’t and think it worked quite well where it was.

And, like, I’ll keep saying this: I have seen a bunch of genuine support for Lloyd in this scene throughout the year, actually around the same level of Doomguy(before the costume leak, anyway). Calling his support small is really understating it, from my own experience.

I've literally said at least three times that I think Travis Touchdown, KOS-MOS, Arle and Rayman should be our most likely frontrunners right now.

Huh, thinking about it, with the earlier games being published by them in the US, Travis Touchdown would technically be the first playable Ubisoft rep if he’s #5, even before Rayman.

The more that I consider Travis, though, the more likely it seems, especially taking Fatman’s “honor” theory into account. Would be a pretty neat character.

 

[Vector Victor]

Character 5 is Travis Touchdown to tie in with further announcements on NMH3 to be presented at the VGAS.

 

[Spatulo]

Presumably to represent Smithy's Machine Mades

Oh, duh. I was stuck thinking “Which SMRPG bosses had robots with them?”

 

[Grumbo]

Queen Lattifah
ueen Lattifah
een Lattifah
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Lattifah
attifah
ttifah
tifah
tifa

Sorry boys looks like Tifa’s out of the running

Honestly I’d be fine with anyone but Lloyd Irving.

Bruh

 

[ForsakenM]

Not known in the community? Dark Souls is rarely talked about it the community
And every time we bring it up, Fatman gets silent
And it would be an earth shattering reveal because Dark Souls in Smash, but not necessarily a hype one
Yeah it’s dark Souls

First one doesn't make sense at all: Dark Souls is a mainstream AAA game, which counts towards being recognizable and people in this thread were saying it would be hype BECAUSE the massive casual audience would know about. Smash community definitely knows about Dark Souls but we just don't care and the only times the Smash community cared was during that stupid Google Theory phase.

Honestly I’d be fine with anyone but Lloyd Irving.

Welp I hope you like what has come already or are already looking to the future, because odds are in his favor at the mo.

 

[Grumbo]

Character 5 is Travis Touchdown to tie in with further announcements on NMH3 to be presented at the VGAS.

I like that theory but since Travis is stuck in .png purgatory I think we can rule him out for the pass. I bet he does have a very good chance post-pass though
Edit: Oh my god I have post #69,420 I think I’m eternally blessed now

 

[Vector Victor]

I like that theory but since Travis is stuck in .png purgatory I think we can rule him out for the pass. I bet he does have a very good chance post-pass though
Edit: Oh my god I have post #69,420 I think I’m eternally blessed now

Wait...he's a spirit?

I did not know this.

 

[RingJ5]

I like that theory but since Travis is stuck in .png purgatory I think we can rule him out for the pass. I bet he does have a very good chance post-pass though
Edit: Oh my god I have post #69,420 I think I’m eternally blessed now

Wait, Travis isn’t a Spirit, though? Or do you mean something else?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Isn’t Smash the only game where two Dragon Quest protags can fight each other? In addition to being the only game with a DQ character and a Final Fantasy character?

Not only fight but even APPEAR together. As this thread knows all too well from my rants of old, Dragon Quest's licensing is complicated as **** and Sakurai even full on admitted that Square Enix is an enormous stickler for detail and super cracks the whip when they allow anyone to use their stuff.

 

[Herocin]

I like that theory but since Travis is stuck in .png purgatory I think we can rule him out for the pass. I bet he does have a very good chance post-pass though
Edit: Oh my god I have post #69,420 I think I’m eternally blessed now

Travis isn't a spirit IIRC

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

How are Lloyd's chances any higher than any other Namco rep's? I think you guys may be setting yourself up for disappointment. They're all on the same grounds rn.

 

[Vector Victor]

Not only fight but even APPEAR together. As this thread knows all too well from my rants of old, Dragon Quest's licensing is complicated as **** and Sakurai even full on admitted that Square Enix is an enormous stickler for detail and super cracks the whip when they allow anyone to use their stuff.

Theory:

'I want to add Geno.'
'Fine....but only after you add DQ Hero.'

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hold on.

I think what he means is

Daemon X Machina is owned by Marvelous, not Nintendo. Marvelous also owns No More Heroes. And a third party getting a Spirit or Mii Costumes before a playable character doesn’t bode well for a character from said company.

and we do have Daemon X Machina Spirits...

that what you meant Grumbo?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

From the post Fatman made last night, it still sounds like all signs are pointing towards Dark Souls tbh. Lloyd has been speculated too long to be a hero/ terry type reaction.

 

[Plank08]

First one doesn't make sense at all: Dark Souls is a mainstream AAA game, which counts towards being recognizable and people in this thread were saying it would be hype BECAUSE the massive casual audience would know about. Smash community definitely knows about Dark Souls but we just don't care and the only times the Smash community cared was during that stupid Google Theory phase.



Welp I hope you like what has come already or are already looking to the future, because odds are in his favor at the mo.

Exactly, the smash community respects dark souls but we rarely ever talk about it in speculation.

 

[Rohanx17]

So lets say this back special idea terry brought is testing for a new addition they might add for smash 6. What would you all make geno's new moveset with 5 slots to fill? I'm a beam/boost/whirl/cannon guy at heart so I think I might move geno blast to back and make flash the new super, so

neutral b geno beam
foreward b geno whirl
down b geno boost
back b geno blast
up b the cannon move from lxp

 

[RingJ5]

From the post Fatman made last night, it still sounds like all signs are pointing towards Dark Souls tbh. Lloyd has been speculated too long to be a hero/ terry type reaction.

In my opinion, if #5(specifically #5, post-pass would be Lloyd/Heihachi) is a Bandai-Namco rep at all, it’s either Dark Souls or the sleeper pick of Agumon. “Digimon and Pokemon fighting each other, officially!” would be a pretty exciting thing.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

A strong point to the theory that DLC plans changed, check out this article:

https://mobile.twitter.com/japaneseswitch/status/1193711986405707776?s=21

The mii costumes they’ve held back have been extremely intentional

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

To be clear, I think post pass is a different story for lloyd, probably the other promotion alongside Geno, but VGA just doesn't seem right.

 

[3DSNinja]

Calling it, Shadow is FP5. It wouldn't be really hype, most of the hype would come from his confirmation of Assists not deconfirming.

 

[waterhasataste]

Calling it, Shadow is FP5. It wouldn't be really hype, most of the hype would come from his confirmation of Assists not deconfirming.

I'm not so sure about this. Fatmanonice has shared some things that make assist pramotions less likely

 

[Rohanx17]

Right now I'm really feeling geno and Lloyd as fighters 6 and 7. Smash 4 content feels far more likely to be drawn from than brawl and unless they want to use scrapped assist trophies like saki or ray the cut costumes seem to be the exact place sakurai was looking to draw from. Bamco could still happen for 5 and it fits with the thank you thing but with Lloyd heihachi and KOS-MOS out I don't really see it. Plus having 2 Bamco characters in the dlc doesn't make much sense if they were holding back the costumes for something later. So I'm at curveball being most likely and Bamco at second most likely.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Then you got Akira from Virtua Fighter as an Assist Trophy. All that's missing is an ArcSystem character, Sol Badguy, and you got all the great fighting game characters in Smash Bros.

Where's Nightmare?

Also, did I miss a development regarding the MallowDemon leak? Has that been further deconfirmed beyond Sabi saying "likely fake"?

 

[Spatulo]

Right now I'm really feeling geno and Lloyd as fighters 6 and 7. Smash 4 content feels far more likely to be drawn from than brawl and unless they want to use scrapped assist trophies like saki or ray the cut costumes seem to be the exact place sakurai was looking to draw from. Bamco could still happen for 5 and it fits with the thank you thing but with Lloyd heihachi and KOS-MOS out I don't really see it plus having 2 Bamco characters in the dlc doesn't make much sense if they were holding back the costumes for something later. So I'm at curveball being most likely and Bamco at second most likely.

I can definitely see Lloyd being 6 or 7 based on Fatman’s theory about those characters being made from reused assets. We haven’t seen Lloyd’s Mii costume after all, and if they lean towards his in-game look as opposed to how he looks in artwork it wouldn’t be too far off

 

[waterhasataste]

Right now I'm really feeling geno and Lloyd as fighters 6 and 7. Smash 4 content feels far more likely to be drawn from than brawl and unless they want to use scrapped assist trophies like saki or ray the cut costumes seem to be the exact place sakurai was looking to draw from. Bamco could still happen for 5 and it fits with the thank you thing but with Lloyd heihachi and KOS-MOS out I don't really see it. Plus having 2 Bamco characters in the dlc doesn't make much sense if they were holding back the costumes for something later. So I'm at curveball being most likely and Bamco at second most likely.

If we can get Geno and Hero in the DLC, I think it's not too crazy to guess we can get a sleeper Namco rep and Lloyd

 

[Firox]

A strong point to the theory that DLC plans changed, check out this article:

https://mobile.twitter.com/japaneseswitch/status/1193711986405707776?s=21

The mii costumes they’ve held back have been extremely intentional

To those that doubted me when I said that Nintendo would be stupid to not keep churning out Smash DLC, I say only this:

$661 MILLION

 

[Droodle]

To be clear, I think post pass is a different story for lloyd, probably the other promotion alongside Geno, but VGA just doesn't seem right.

Again, it's possible to have a character revealed before VGA's. It's possible that we get announcement on the 7th of December rather than VGA's, and we get nothing at the VGA's. Or maybe character 6 is revealed at the VGA's. It's also possible we don't see character 5 announced until the obligatory January direct.

This whole thought process that we HAVE to get character 5 at VGA's needs to go. Also Persona 5 has sold approximately around the same as Tales of Symphonia (2.7 vs around 2.2-2.5). If Joker can get announced at The Game Awards, so can Lloyd.

I'm certain the next character will most likely be a Bamco rep, but the question is when they'll reveal them.

 

[Spatulo]

Where's Nightmare?

Also, did I miss a development regarding the MallowDemon leak? Has that been further deconfirmed beyond Sabi saying "likely fake"?

Sabi clarified that character 5 isn’t Geno or Doomguy according to their source which was why they said it was likely fake, nothing more definitive has come since that