Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Operation Starfall has reached over 1,000 followers on twitter!

 

[Giga Kaiju]

No, we don't need actually the same handful of people saying the same things everytime people are even slightly optimistic, or dare I even say it, hype about Geno's chances. Like I've said before we really don't need others to be condescending or patronizing anymore than any other character support thread with a slight amount of what seems like evidence to a characters possible inclusion. Do you see these types of posts in Reimu threads or Crash Bandicoot threads? Not really. Or Erdrick threads before Hero was revealed? Not at all. People were just cool with letting people discuss and be hyped by a character.

And in terms of what's "realistic"? He has as much a realistic chance in second wave of DLC as any other highly requested third party character with no mii costume in the game. The only reality is that there's a chance he can be playable and a chance he isn't. Just like any other character.

And like why warn us off from making death threats? Does anything in this thread point to that even being something that people here would do in the slightest? And in terms of "negativity" I feel like people often conflate "I am not very hype about X character" with "X character sucks and I hate them and their fans". People are going to like and dislike things and there's no reason people can't vocalize that as long as they aren't being toxic assholes about it.

Alright, first of all not necessarily every person that tells you to not get your hopes up means bad. Some might actually do so with good intentions. And with those other examples, those threads are not as active as this one (social media and other sites it's a different story)

You might be seeing responses of other people or legit trolls that are actually toxic, and for that, it might be understandable if you're that agitated about it but just see it from another angle.

Not every advice of hype is for the worse. You're just seeing that way yourself.

I think all things Geno considered it's in the best position he has EVER been in speculation history of Smash. I am in favor of him, just in case you're thinking I am not in pro-favor of the Star Warrior.

Most if not a great majority believes he is possible but not an absolute. That's what some are trying to get at, we're not saying that he is not possible, we're saying that he has a "chance".

Thanks but a fanbase that has continually been let down for even longer than you have doesn’t need any tips on how we should handle our speculating.

No matter what I’ll be bummed if Geno doesn’t get in so I’ll choose to spend this time being excited. Contrary to popular belief, being excited and talking about all the favorable things =\= Ignoring the fact that he might not get in

Technically we have been longer since the Melee era and if you wan to stretch it out even more with appearances or discussions then that would be since the original N64 title, so it's not quite the same, dude.

I would argue that Geno has never and will never get it as bad as the Ridley fanbase did when he was during the "Brawl-SM4SH" speculation eras.

I feel like you're not a good standing from where I am seeing it overall.

Saying that "keep your hopes in the middle" is negative or ignoring is another stretch.

Something that I have seen with this thread multiple times in the past is that as soon as someone brings a conflicting opinion, as harmless as it could possibly be, people swarm over that person and literally kick him/out of the thread.

Like that one person hundred of pages ago commenting on why people were supporting Geno in a civilized manner and folks took it personal. It's the little things like that.

On both ends, not just detractors, but also us as supporters.

Anyway, that's just my 0.02$ on the situation and why I think the people that said that "don't overhype yourself" are not entirely 100% wrong.

(Man, it's difficult to write all of this in your phone...)

.

 

[Franco Geno]

Operation Starfall has reached over 1,000 followers on twitter!

That´s awesome!

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yeah, because Sakurai saying that he absolutely not wanting a character to be included in a crossover fighter would totally go well. No, there's no way Sakurai is ever going to say that he doesn't want a particular video game character since that would piss off so many fans.

He could’ve dodged it by saying “There were a lot of requests for Geno, and I wanted to please those requests as best as I could. I wasn’t able to get him as a fighter, but I did what I thought was the next best thing” instead of exaggerating how much he liked Geno if he really didn’t like him. He also liked an Instagram post about a Geno toy or something someone made, showing he clearly likes the character. I know you’re pessimistic against Sakurai because of ATs and costumes and whatnot, but you’re not even being realistic here; cut the man at least a bit of slack. He can’t add every fan request as much as he would like to, his vision for his game likely had him prioritize the bigger characters like Cloud, the DQ Hero, and others from other companies as he could add within his team’s budget; all we can do is hope he adds Geno this time, which could very well happen especially with all the support.

 

[Grumbo]

Ive been busy all day, what’s the skinny lol

 

[wynn728]

He could’ve dodged it by saying “There were a lot of requests for Geno, and I wanted to please those requests as best as I could. I wasn’t able to get him as a fighter, but I did what I thought was the next best thing” instead of exaggerating how much he liked Geno if he really didn’t like him. He also liked an Instagram post about a Geno toy or something someone made, showing he clearly likes the character. I know you’re pessimistic against Sakurai because of ATs and costumes and whatnot, but you’re not even being realistic here; cut the man at least a bit of slack.

I believe that he likes Geno, but not enough to actually make him playable. And I'll keep believing that until he proves me wrong, which doesn't look like will happen.

 

[ChoccyStar]

I'd love 2B but none of the Nier or Drakengard games have been in a Nintendo system, and Joker has had SMT and Persona Q games while Cloud had at least Theatrhythm and WoFF.

That said, until Geno gets released as a costume, his strongest evidence that he is in is Nintendo's copyright takedown on the music. Either way, we're getting Geno something one way or another, we just have to find out what and when.

 

[ForsakenM]

So guys, I encourage you to use your heads. Think about all this for a moment.

Does it make more sense for Terry to come earlier in Nov, or later in Nov? Really think about it. Let me break things down.

1. Marketing perspective: I makes little sense to have Terry emerge later in the month. Imagine you are Nintendo and you just released Luigi's Mansion 3 and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 back-to-back and your big release in your really crappy new mainline Pokemon games come out on the 15th. The 15th-17th will be crazy sales for these games and everyone everywhere will be focused on those games. No one will care about Terry releasing later on because there are disgustingly poor designed Pokemon to catch and battle with. Wouldn't it make more sense to release Terry before the onslaught that is Pokemon comes in? You'll be able to have him have the spotlight for a bit and then he can make way for Sw/Sh.
2. Marketing perspective Part 2- 7/11 Boogaloo: Now, what makes more sense to advertise during this time - your two biggest titles that JUST came out and a small reminder about the TRUE biggest title...or a single DLC character that wasn't nearly as well received by your primary audience? This just makes logical sense.
3. Patterns are meant to be broken: So, two characters out of three release within the time frame of their ad...so now a character can ONLY release within the time frame of their ad? How many times of fan rules and patterns be shattered? How many more times will it take for you to figure out that you cannot predict Sakurai's ebb and flow? DO I NEED TO SOURCE THE SPONGEBOB MEME AGAIN?!
4. I have MORE EVIDENCE!: So we had the SNK copyright found with that Spirit Event information even though there were no SNK Spirits, the fact that Terry went from 'November 2019' to 'Coming Soon!' and then back to 'November 2019', and the rumor of there being maintenance in the coming week are all things in favor of Terry coming next week and easily outweigh the ad choice. You may try to compare the 'Coming Soon' pattern with the ad pattern but the ad pattern has the flaw of being inconsistent while the 'Coming Soon' only has one instance of occurrence and was successful. Essentially, there is more in favor of Terry releasing earlier in the month than there is against it.
5. Who needs anniversaries?: Some people are suggesting that Terry could come later in the month to match up with the anniversary...but I feel like there as another anniversary for another DLC character that everyone thought would happen...but it didn't. In fact, I think we'e come up with multiple times we think there would be a fitting event for the reveal...and they never happen. So, how does the 25th for the anniversary of Fatal Fury: King of Fighters make any more sense than any other fitting event? It's more likely a detractor meant to make us wonder and speculate just like the previous releases.

I'm sure there is more to be said here, but honestly anyone who gives up on Terry coming sooner rather than later just based on ad choice really needs to think for themselves.

 

[waterhasataste]

That was probably just talk because he knows there's demand for him.

I can get being a bit skeptical, but I think this is such a huge stretch. Geno is one of thew few big fan requests to actually get mentioned a positive light by Sakurai. Ridley was dismissed as too big in the past, K Rool had straight up silence from Sakurai till his reveal, Banjo was only mentioned back in Melee to say that it's hard to get Rare characters and other fan favorites haven't even gotten endorsements. He even liked a picture of the character on Instagram, there isn't many characters that have gotten that level of recognition from the creator of Smash. Sakurai does like Geno

No offense, but it seems like every time someone brings up something positive for Geno's chances you find some way to turn it in the opposite direction and say "nah that actually doesn't mean anything" or "actually that hurts his chances". Like I get being skeptical, but there's a point where it becomes too much. To your credit, you have brought up a few reasonable points on some Geno evidence, however when you downplay even the evidence that seems extremely reasonable, it starts to feel really draining. There's a difference between trying to be reasonable and objective, and trying to be extremely nitpicky and unreasonably pessimistic

 

[NintendoKnight]

Just a year ago if someone asked if Joker or Terry had a chance in making it into Smash Bros people would say they never going to make it in, and yet there they are.

People also say Geno could never make it, and yet here we are. No one is going around denying 2B's chances, but everyone is going around denying Geno's chances. And last I checked, this IS the GENO thread. Thus, in this thread we support Geno MORE THAN ANY OTHER CHARACTER.

I have an idea, let's go further on the topic of Joker and Terry specifically, yes?

Facts known:

Sakurai has been a fan of the Persona series since its debut on Playstation 1. When Persona 5 proved to be the stand-out hit in the franchise's history, and also coincided with Ultimate's development, it was a perfect opportunity for Joker to be added into the game.

Sakurai initially developed Smash Bros. around the concept of it being a "Beginner-Friendly King of Fighters," since he was always a big King of Fighters fan but felt it was too hard for casual players. Guess what released during Smash Ultimate's development? King of Fighters XIV. Perfect opportunity to get Terry Bogard in there.

Two things Sakurai loved, released in the span of Ultimate's Development and both seen as impossible to happen by fans of Smash. You know what else was impossible in the eye of Smash players? Cloud. Freaking. Strife.

You know what was impossible before that? Sonic the Hedgehog. And before that? Non-Nintendo characters making it into the game in general. Very few things are impossible for Sakurai. He's even proved this in spite of himself, e.g. Villager, Ridley, etc.

Well Sakurai did say he doesn't like to talk about why certain characters don't make it into Smash Bros so he avoids those as much as possible. Though for Geno comment most likely had to do with see there was demand while they were negotiating for Cloud's inclusion and just decided to throw in a Geno Mii Costume just please those fans. If Sakurai really wanted to include Geno then wouldn't have passed him up 5 times. Also Sakurai was the one to go for Dragon Quest rep, he wasn't shackled by Nintendo and force to give up on Geno, that was a choice he made.

And while I'm responding to you, I might as well cover other comments of yours.

Gotta say, that last sentence really implies that Hero was chosen over Geno and that Geno has no chance now because of Hero. No evidence to support that implication.

Yeah, because Sakurai saying that he absolutely not wanting a character to be included in a crossover fighter would totally go well. No, there's no way Sakurai is ever going to say that he doesn't want a particular video game character since that would piss off so many fans.

That didn't stop him with Villager, Mii's, or Ridley. Those are characters with arguably more fans than Geno has, but he didn't spare their feelings, so why would he spare ours?

And apparently, you seem to be of the opinion that he's willing to include characters that would piss off fans.



Need I say more?

I believe that he likes Geno, but not enough to actually make him playable. And I'll keep believing that until he proves me wrong, which doesn't look like will happen.

Based on what evidence? Does your uncle work at Nintendo?

Technically we have been longer since the Melee era and if you wan to stretch it out even more with appearances or discussions then that would be since the original N64 title, so it's not quite the same, dude.

Debatable. K. Rool, Ridley, and Geno all predate Smash 64, and thus Melee. I've heard word that there were Geno supporters around Melee's time as well. So no, you may not make the claim that you have been longer. You may make the claim that yours was the more obvious and notable, which I will not deny, but not longer.

I would argue that Geno has never and will never get it as bad as the Ridley fanbase did when he was during the "Brawl-SM4SH" speculation eras.

So, are we going to have what I call the "Pissing Contest of Suffering"? Whoever had it worse wins? It's a pretty crappy and un-fun way to debate, if you ask me.

Also, Ridley's detractors mostly appeared during the Sm4sh speculation cycle. Why? Because that was when the "too big" concept happened. How do I know this? Because I was one of them. I was a Ridley detractor for that brief time, and I was given crap for it despite later being proven correct about his role in Sm4sh... And I wasn't even on the Ridley thread when I was given that crap. So basically, Ridley supporters only got trash for basically one cycle of speculation. A cycle that culminated in the next game revealing him as a playable fighter almost immediately upon it's official reveal.

But you're right, it's not the same; you have your character, we don't.

Now, I'm not going to say "Hey leave this thread and us Geno fans in peace."

What I will say is this, please respect the fact that our opinion of the character we support has been kicked around just as much as yours, and still is being kicked around (A brief glimpse into GameFAQs will provide you with quite a show, trust me). And please also respect that we are adults who may choose to hype whatever we wish to hype. If people are disappointed? Big deal. Stuff happens. Much bigger things are disappointing all the time and there are less negative reactions to such things. We all know that the world isn't Burger King: we can't always have it our way. If we don't get Geno, then we don't get Geno. The world continues to spin.

At the end of the day, Smash Ultimate is an incredible game, a breaker of records, and worthy of much attention and praise; with or without Geno.

 

[3DSNinja]

Also wynn728 can you shut up about Geno not happening? I'm tired of hearing you talk about how no fan favorites will happen and how Geno won't happen and I'M A PESSIMIST! I agree that we need to keep our expectations reasonable in that there is not a guarantee, but you are certain that everything WILL go wrong, when you have no evidence. I am like that when I am having a really bad day or on the date I lost a close family member when I was 8, but not about EVERYTHING and not EVERYDAY.
TLDR; you are being too negative and need to temper your bad expectations and at least agree that it is odd thatBe
Geno isn't a returning Mii Costume and Mallow/Smithy were leaked but not Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

Well Sakurai did say he doesn't like to talk about why certain characters don't make it into Smash Bros so he avoids those as much as possible. Though for Geno comment most likely had to do with see there was demand while they were negotiating for Cloud's inclusion and just decided to throw in a Geno Mii Costume just please those fans. If Sakurai really wanted to include Geno then wouldn't have passed him up 5 times. Also Sakurai was the one to go for Dragon Quest rep, he wasn't shackled by Nintendo and force to give up on Geno, that was a choice he made.

Yeah, because Sakurai saying that he absolutely not wanting a character to be included in a crossover fighter would totally go well. No, there's no way Sakurai is ever going to say that he doesn't want a particular video game character since that would piss off so many fans.

*sigh*

IF. HE. DIDN'T/DOESN'T. WANT. HIM. THEN. HE. DOESN'T. HAVE. TO. TALK. ABOUT. HIM.

How hard is it to understand that? Seriously your pessimism is starting to border on obsession so for one I am done talking about this.

 

[Musubi]

So it seems like just about everyday multiple people seem to be arguing with wynn728. I totally understand how their (I'm using a plural here because I don't know wynn728's pronouns) constant pessimism is frustrating and draining, especially when evidence comes out that boosts our hopes for Geno. However, constantly engaging in arguments with them is also no fun to read. Most of these arguments are either the same arguments people have been having with them or arguments that don't have definitive answers on either side. Instead of trying to argue with every post wynn728 makes, I suggest people just ignore their post if it annoys you that much.

And wynn728 I want you to know that I respect what you try to do in this thread. While I think your pessimism and cynicism is usually very much overdone and can be deflating when people are just trying to get excited for the hope that Geno may actually make a return, and that I've gotten very frustrated and annoyed with a lot of the ideas you've posted before, I appreciate that you try to make the thread look at all possible sides to speculation. There have been a few times when the excitement of a somewhat credible leak makes me jump to "Geno's in!" too quickly and then something you point out brings me back down to Earth.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to moderate the thread when I'm not a moderator. This has just been bugging me a lot the past couple of weeks. I like to come to this thread to talk about Geno and SMRPG while talking about Smash speculation with fans like me, not to read people having the same exhausting arguments over and over again.

 

[N3ON]

Yes, take a page from me and only come in here periodically to rain on everyone's parade.

 

[Grumbo]

Yikes we’re still fighting over 2B?

Lets just rally behind Geno for a day or so, the direct/presentation is probably very close. We dont need to be at eachothers throats right now

 

[3DSNinja]

Alright here is a song to calm y'all down
(BTW, it's Bowser's Road by Man on the Internet)

 

[M@R!3]

I greatly enjoyed Nier Automata, and would be okay seeing 2B in Smash. The problem, objectively, is she's just another anime swordsman. What may set her apart is she is an anime waifu swordswoman. Maybe that's enough of a difference.

Nah, 2B has a light weapon, a heavy weapon, and the pod/pod programs. That's more than enough to make her distinct from other sword fighters.

 

[YsDisciple]

So guys, I encourage you to use your heads. Think about all this for a moment.

Does it make more sense for Terry to come earlier in Nov, or later in Nov? Really think about it. Let me break things down.

1. Marketing perspective: I makes little sense to have Terry emerge later in the month. Imagine you are Nintendo and you just released Luigi's Mansion 3 and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 back-to-back and your big release in your really crappy new mainline Pokemon games come out on the 15th. The 15th-17th will be crazy sales for these games and everyone everywhere will be focused on those games. No one will care about Terry releasing later on because there are disgustingly poor designed Pokemon to catch and battle with. Wouldn't it make more sense to release Terry before the onslaught that is Pokemon comes in? You'll be able to have him have the spotlight for a bit and then he can make way for Sw/Sh.
2. Marketing perspective Part 2- 7/11 Boogaloo: Now, what makes more sense to advertise during this time - your two biggest titles that JUST came out and a small reminder about the TRUE biggest title...or a single DLC character that wasn't nearly as well received by your primary audience? This just makes logical sense.
3. Patterns are meant to be broken: So, two characters out of three release within the time frame of their ad...so now a character can ONLY release within the time frame of their ad? How many times of fan rules and patterns be shattered? How many more times will it take for you to figure out that you cannot predict Sakurai's ebb and flow? DO I NEED TO SOURCE THE SPONGEBOB MEME AGAIN?!
4. I have MORE EVIDENCE!: So we had the SNK copyright found with that Spirit Event information even though there were no SNK Spirits, the fact that Terry went from 'November 2019' to 'Coming Soon!' and then back to 'November 2019', and the rumor of there being maintenance in the coming week are all things in favor of Terry coming next week and easily outweigh the ad choice. You may try to compare the 'Coming Soon' pattern with the ad pattern but the ad pattern has the flaw of being inconsistent while the 'Coming Soon' only has one instance of occurrence and was successful. Essentially, there is more in favor of Terry releasing earlier in the month than there is against it.
5. Who needs anniversaries?: Some people are suggesting that Terry could come later in the month to match up with the anniversary...but I feel like there as another anniversary for another DLC character that everyone thought would happen...but it didn't. In fact, I think we'e come up with multiple times we think there would be a fitting event for the reveal...and they never happen. So, how does the 25th for the anniversary of Fatal Fury: King of Fighters make any more sense than any other fitting event? It's more likely a detractor meant to make us wonder and speculate just like the previous releases.

I'm sure there is more to be said here, but honestly anyone who gives up on Terry coming sooner rather than later just based on ad choice really needs to think for themselves.

Preach brother, preach! I'm convinced that Terry will be releasing either the 6th, or 7th of November (which are the dates in which maintenance for Online play of some software will be occurring of roughly 2 - 3 hours), also matching the release dates within the week of the previous DLC fighters (Wednesday/Thursday).

Now, in regards to our boy Geno.

Plays And My Name's Bukki theme. Takes a sip from a Kero Kero Cola jug.

Ahhhh! That's the stuff. Geno's in. We'll see him soon.

 

[Fatmanonice]

seems like terrys not coming this week

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1190803203073269760

I see this as a good thing. As we get closer to the end of the year, I feel like it gives credence to a bigger presentation and the fact that Nintendo's symbolically setting up the chairs a minimum of 3 weeks in advance is potentially a good sign of things to come.

 

[Ovaltine]

I see this as a good thing. As we get closer to the end of the year, I feel like it gives credence to a bigger presentation and the fact that Nintendo's symbolically setting up the chairs a minimum of 3 weeks in advance is potentially a good sign of things to come.

Fatman no

We don't talk about chairs

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I see this as a good thing. As we get closer to the end of the year, I feel like it gives credence to a bigger presentation and the fact that Nintendo's symbolically setting up the chairs a minimum of 3 weeks in advance is potentially a good sign of things to come.

Every day that passes I believe more and more that the end of Terrys video presentation will announce an incoming Smash direct to give us FP5 and kick off the additional fighters. Really seems like they’re preparing for phase 2 here

 

[Rohanx17]

I'm pretty torn, really not digging the idea of waiting a few more weeks after already building expectations for this one but I guess this does mean were going to get something more substantial.

If we got somthing small but smash focused I could see it being:

Opens with pass member 5, idk Lloyd.

Sak talks about Terry for a while and gives us the release date. ( now of course)

Next batch of costumes revealed. Various snk stuff and a few returning fighter costumes as expected.

Structure of dlc moving forward is discussed. How it will offered and what will be comming with the new fighters. Unless it's a second pass I expect him to not give any definitive numbers.

As it's about to end the trailer for the first new character get revealed, Geno. The setup played on the nature of the character and the lore of spirits themselves for a cheeky explanation. Ends with the understanding that all dlc at this point takes place after WoL and spirits are all fair game.

 

[AdamBel731]

So it seems like just about everyday multiple people seem to be arguing with wynn728. I totally understand how their (I'm using a plural here because I don't know wynn728's pronouns) constant pessimism is frustrating and draining, especially when evidence comes out that boosts our hopes for Geno. However, constantly engaging in arguments with them is also no fun to read. Most of these arguments are either the same arguments people have been having with them or arguments that don't have definitive answers on either side. Instead of trying to argue with every post wynn728 makes, I suggest people just ignore their post if it annoys you that much.

And wynn728 I want you to know that I respect what you try to do in this thread. While I think your pessimism and cynicism is usually very much overdone and can be deflating when people are just trying to get excited for the hope that Geno may actually make a return, and that I've gotten very frustrated and annoyed with a lot of the ideas you've posted before, I appreciate that you try to make the thread look at all possible sides to speculation. There have been a few times when the excitement of a somewhat credible leak makes me jump to "Geno's in!" too quickly and then something you point out brings me back down to Earth.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to moderate the thread when I'm not a moderator. This has just been bugging me a lot the past couple of weeks. I like to come to this thread to talk about Geno and SMRPG while talking about Smash speculation with fans like me, not to read people having the same exhausting arguments over and over again.

Yeah, I honestly don't like arguing either. And yeah, people COULD ignore wynn. But honestly, I'm glad people are calling him out, because it is the same song and dance almost every other day with him.

He says he is happy with Ultimate, but he constantly beats the dead horse of "PIRANHA PLANT SUCKS," and how Sakurai doesn't care anymore, and now he is claiming Sakurai is lying to save face. You can criticize something, but wynn constantly ignores facts and logic to suit his mindset (thinks Sakurai doesn't care anymore), and does so to revel in his own contempt.

He views Assist Trophies and Spirits as a sign of contempt for the developers and takes choices personally despite it being clear Sakurai has no contempt for us. If he were just trying to calm people down from too much hype and expectations, I'd respect that. But there is a difference between that, and doing what Wynn does on top of that. He constantly wants to revel in his own echo chamber to help suit his mindset. I mean heck, I've called him out on the constant crapping of Piranha Plant, and he just ignores my points and says something to the effect of "sorry I don't like the character you're okay with." I UNDERSTAND being disappointed and disliking a character, but you don't need to say it ALMOST EVERY DAY.

You change things by calling people out and making them realize change needs to occur. It is clear little to no one supports or likes Wynn constant beating of these ideas horse ideas. This isn't just about someone criticizing something and telling people to not over hype. I keep calling him out because, frankly, I've seen how people come into this thread after long days and to relax, and I don't think we all need this behavior in here. I'd rather have someone say a cuss word (saying that because it isn't allowed here) than Wynn's pissy behavior. To me Wynn's incessant behavior is more of an issue than someone saying a little cuss word.

If someone thinks the Earth is flat and just says it once, okay, fine. You can think that, even though there is clear evidence that it isn't flat. But if you start constantly, over and over bringing that up and ignore/oversimplify evidence (like Wynn does) just so you can hold onto your belief, nope, sorry, I'm calling you out. If it was a one and done thing, I and many others would be fine. But it is the fact that it it's an almost everyday thing with Wynn and basically everyone is sick and tired of it.

 

[Vector Victor]

A trailer of a fight between Mario and Bowser. Bowser gets knocked out and the scene transitions to a Bowser doll going by. It pans out and its a playroom like the N64 opening. A doorbell rings, the hands head to the door, open it and receive a package. Then the hands move the area items around to form a large mound in the middle with a tuve sticking out on top. They set Mario, Peach, Yoshi and Bowser near it.

The hands go to the new package and open it. There is a close up of the hands holding something and putting down. They move away and its a Geno doll. The hands count down from 3, snap and the area turns back into a Smash fight but its Bowser's castle with Exor sticking out. Mario and the others look up and,

Geno Beams Down! -Forest Mushroom remix-

Then gameplay, go back to cutscene where puppet fighters are then hit with lightning. Pan up and a silhouette stands on a tiny foot high cliff. Then the rock breaks and he falls on his face. He gets up quickly and victory poses.

Mallow Shocks Everyone!

 

[ctt4lfecw]

A trailer of a fight between Mario and Bowser. Bowser gets knocked out and the scene transitions to a Bowser doll going by. It pans out and its a playroom like the N64 opening. A doorbell rings, the hands head to the door, open it and receive a package. Then the hands move the area items around to form a large mound in the middle with a tuve sticking out on top. They set Mario, Peach, Yoshi and Bowser near it.

The hands go to the new package and open it. There is a close up of the hands holding something and putting down. They move away and its a Geno doll. The hands count down from 3, snap and the area turns back into a Smash fight but its Bowser's castle with Exor sticking out. Mario and the others look up and,

Geno Beams Down! -Forest Mushroom remix-

Then gameplay, go back to cutscene where puppet fighters are then hit with lightning. Pan up and a silhouette stands on a tiny foot high cliff. Then the rock breaks and he falls on his face. He gets up quickly and victory poses.

Mallow Shocks Everyone!

Wouldn’t that be something if we got
both Geno and Mallow!?

 

[Herocin]

IMO Geno is likely

 

[valkiriforce]

IMO Geno is likely

"ALL RIGHT! That's my kinda talk, mister."

 

[CannonStreak]

So guys, I encourage you to use your heads. Think about all this for a moment.

Does it make more sense for Terry to come earlier in Nov, or later in Nov? Really think about it. Let me break things down.

1. Marketing perspective: I makes little sense to have Terry emerge later in the month. Imagine you are Nintendo and you just released Luigi's Mansion 3 and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 back-to-back and your big release in your really crappy new mainline Pokemon games come out on the 15th. The 15th-17th will be crazy sales for these games and everyone everywhere will be focused on those games. No one will care about Terry releasing later on because there are disgustingly poor designed Pokemon to catch and battle with. Wouldn't it make more sense to release Terry before the onslaught that is Pokemon comes in? You'll be able to have him have the spotlight for a bit and then he can make way for Sw/Sh.
2. Marketing perspective Part 2- 7/11 Boogaloo: Now, what makes more sense to advertise during this time - your two biggest titles that JUST came out and a small reminder about the TRUE biggest title...or a single DLC character that wasn't nearly as well received by your primary audience? This just makes logical sense.
3. Patterns are meant to be broken: So, two characters out of three release within the time frame of their ad...so now a character can ONLY release within the time frame of their ad? How many times of fan rules and patterns be shattered? How many more times will it take for you to figure out that you cannot predict Sakurai's ebb and flow? DO I NEED TO SOURCE THE SPONGEBOB MEME AGAIN?!
4. I have MORE EVIDENCE!: So we had the SNK copyright found with that Spirit Event information even though there were no SNK Spirits, the fact that Terry went from 'November 2019' to 'Coming Soon!' and then back to 'November 2019', and the rumor of there being maintenance in the coming week are all things in favor of Terry coming next week and easily outweigh the ad choice. You may try to compare the 'Coming Soon' pattern with the ad pattern but the ad pattern has the flaw of being inconsistent while the 'Coming Soon' only has one instance of occurrence and was successful. Essentially, there is more in favor of Terry releasing earlier in the month than there is against it.
5. Who needs anniversaries?: Some people are suggesting that Terry could come later in the month to match up with the anniversary...but I feel like there as another anniversary for another DLC character that everyone thought would happen...but it didn't. In fact, I think we'e come up with multiple times we think there would be a fitting event for the reveal...and they never happen. So, how does the 25th for the anniversary of Fatal Fury: King of Fighters make any more sense than any other fitting event? It's more likely a detractor meant to make us wonder and speculate just like the previous releases.

I'm sure there is more to be said here, but honestly anyone who gives up on Terry coming sooner rather than later just based on ad choice really needs to think for themselves.

Just to add, I don't know if you clearly mentioned this, but the 7/11 ad, someone on another topic said that Joker did not get a 7/11 ad before his release, too. Just saying.

 

[Musubi]

Yeah, I honestly don't like arguing either. And yeah, people COULD ignore wynn. But honestly, I'm glad people are calling him out, because it is the same song and dance almost every other day with him.

He says he is happy with Ultimate, but he constantly beats the dead horse of "PIRANHA PLANT SUCKS," and how Sakurai doesn't care anymore, and now he is claiming Sakurai is lying to save face. You can criticize something, but wynn constantly ignores facts and logic to suit his mindset (thinks Sakurai doesn't care anymore), and does so to revel in his own contempt.

He views Assist Trophies and Spirits as a sign of contempt for the developers and takes choices personally despite it being clear Sakurai has no contempt for us. If he were just trying to calm people down from too much hype and expectations, I'd respect that. But there is a difference between that, and doing what Wynn does on top of that. He constantly wants to revel in his own echo chamber to help suit his mindset. I mean heck, I've called him out on the constant crapping of Piranha Plant, and he just ignores my points and says something to the effect of "sorry I don't like the character you're okay with." I UNDERSTAND being disappointed and disliking a character, but you don't need to say it ALMOST EVERY DAY.

You change things by calling people out and making them realize change needs to occur. It is clear little to no one supports or likes Wynn constant beating of these ideas horse ideas. This isn't just about someone criticizing something and telling people to not over hype. I keep calling him out because, frankly, I've seen how people come into this thread after long days and to relax, and I don't think we all need this behavior in here. I'd rather have someone say a cuss word (saying that because it isn't allowed here) than Wynn's pissy behavior. To me Wynn's incessant behavior is more of an issue than someone saying a little cuss word.

If someone thinks the Earth is flat and just says it once, okay, fine. You can think that, even though there is clear evidence that it isn't flat. But if you start constantly, over and over bringing that up and ignore/oversimplify evidence (like Wynn does) just so you can hold onto your belief, nope, sorry, I'm calling you out. If it was a one and done thing, I and many others would be fine. But it is the fact that it it's an almost everyday thing with Wynn and basically everyone is sick and tired of it.

Everything you say here is valid and I completely agree with you. I guess what I meant to say is that it's clear that Wynn won't change. They're going to always have some pessimistic comeback despite what logic you throw at them. That's why I'm saying it would be better to not engage with wynn and ignore them when their posts are frustrating you. You spend your energy arguing with someone that won't change when you could be using it to get hyped that this is the best Geno's chances have ever looked.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

A better point to make about the 7/11 ad is that we've not had a situation where two of Nintendo's bigger titles have been set to release at the same time like this when a potential Smash character may be coming. Joker had nothing to compete with really when he debuted. Hero came out in the same window as Three Houses, but after Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3. Banjo & Kazooie came out after Astral Chain, but a couple of weeks before Link's Awakening was set to debut (and Daemon X Machina was published by Marvelous in Japan, so it wouldn't have been on the banner either and wasn't exactly the same level).

But now? We have Luigi's Mansion 3 as one of Nintendo's big releases of the holiday (if not THE holiday release with how heavily it has been marketed) and we have Mario & Sonic, which is specifically supposed to be a return to form for the Mario & Sonic titles as well as commemorating the fact that the 2020 Olympics will specifically be held in Tokyo, so it makes sense for it to have a much bigger push and it just released in Japan right after Luigi's Mansion 3 on November 1st.

I don't think the 7/11 ad really tells us much of anything given when Terry will show up considering that context.

 

[TriggerX]

While I do believe Geno will get in eventually, as fighter #5 I doubt it.

If there is an established pattern, every character so far has been from a completely new series that has never been introduced into smash.
Joker, Banjo, Hero, and Terry also seem to share the trait of being the main heroes or representatives of their respective stories.

Unless Geno breaks this pattern, which is possible, I doubt he is being considered for the fifth character.
However, as a point for Geno if he is the last character it is good timing since both the ff7 remake and Smrpg original release date was in early March.


Ryu Hayabusa, Kos-mos, Lara, Tracer, Shantae, Sora, 2B, female from darkstalkers, Jill valentine all seem like good candidates to me.

 

[Atmoz]

A better point to make about the 7/11 ad is that we've not had a situation where two of Nintendo's bigger titles have been set to release at the same time like this when a potential Smash character may be coming. Joker had nothing to compete with really when he debuted. Hero came out in the same window as Three Houses, but after Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3. Banjo & Kazooie came out after Astral Chain, but a couple of weeks before Link's Awakening was set to debut (and Daemon X Machina was published by Marvelous in Japan, so it wouldn't have been on the banner either and wasn't exactly the same level).

But now? We have Luigi's Mansion 3 as one of Nintendo's big releases of the holiday (if not THE holiday release with how heavily it has been marketed) and we have Mario & Sonic, which is specifically supposed to be a return to form for the Mario & Sonic titles as well as commemorating the fact that the 2020 Olympics will specifically be held in Tokyo, so it makes sense for it to have a much bigger push and it just released in Japan right after Luigi's Mansion 3 on November 1st.

I don't think the 7/11 ad really tells us much of anything given when Terry will show up considering that context.

This is a good point. Another one worth bringing up is that the next wave of Smash amiibos (Simon, Incineroar and Chrom) are releasing in Japan on November 8th, which would be November 7th for a good chunk of the world. November 7th is a Thursday and as such, lines up with the usual Smash DLC release times.

Note that Nintendo hasn't been patching the game only for amiibo support as of recent. The last time they did that was with Hero and that was arguably because Sakurai said Hero was pushed a bit back for some balance changes so they released the amiibo patch anyway. Amiibo support has for the most part been released alongside the DLC and the major update (X.0.0). It's very likely that like how Banjo's presentation had Sakurai chime in with the amiibos and their release date, we may see the same thing this week.

 

[MisterMike]

Here's a question for you, wynn728 . Why do you continue write these long diatribes about how Geno's never coming to Smash, but can never point to anything solid to back up your assertions? For example, you claim that Sakurai hasn't put Geno in Smash yet because he hates him. Where exactly are you getting this from? You do know that there are plenty of characters who aren't in Smash yet, right? So does Sakurai hate them as well? What about King K. Rool? I've heard plenty of people say that he'd never come to Smash because Sakurai/Nintendo/Retro Studios/etc. hate him, especially after his Mii Fighter costume, and yet he got into Ultimate regardless.

You point out that Joker and Terry coming to Smash means that fan-favorite characters aren't going to be a high priority, and as such Geno has little chance to make it in, but you forget that most of the characters chosen were very much geared towards what people wanted based on the Smash Ballot. ,, and being the obvious ones, but , , ,,,, and as well, were all included based on the Ballot. If anything, characters like ,, are the exception rather than the rule. But I guess because these few characters exist and you don't care about Terry, that means that Geno will NEVER come to Smash, right? There's NO WAY they would include Geno as a fighter in Smash when someone like 2B exists, right? Despite many people wanting Geno for a long time and not many people really clamouring for 2B to get into Smash...

B-but that's just "Smash Bubble" thinking! You're seeing things from a biased perspective, man! Smash isn't just about catering to YOU, it's about branching out and catering to a larger demographic! THAT'S why Geno will never get in! Y'know, despite all the characters listed above that they put in that catered to what Smash fans really wanted, and despite the lack of characters that most casuals gamers would know better like Fortnite Guy, Freddy Fazbear, or Steve. And really ruminate on that last one for a second: Steve Minecraft, the face of one of one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, games of all time didn't make it into Smash, but did, all because more people in general wanted him.

Really, the whole "Smash Bubble" point is basically a fancy version of the relevancy argument. "[X] won't get in Smash because they/their game aren't/isn't relevant!" becomes "Only Smash fans/fans of [X] want [X], nobody else outside of your group wants them!". Instead of attacking an aspect of the character, namely their relevancy to gaming as a whole which has been proven time and time again to not be a factor in whether or not they can join Smash, the focus is on the fans themselves. It asserts that they're a loud vocal minority, and as such are disconnected from the REAL debates people are having and the REAL characters that people want, regardless if that's even true or not. In other words, "You're delusional!".

And before you jump to conclusion about me or anyone else in this thread giving you the business, I want to state the following: My problem with your points has NOTHING to do with you being skeptical and/or pessimistic. Rather, I just really hate bad or lazy arguments, and I hate it when people let their emotions cloud their judgements; It's clear to me that you very much feel that Geno has no shot, you've expressed that sentiment a lot in your posts, but those feelings don't necessarily translate to objective evidence. Just because you feel Geno has no shot at coming to Smash, it doesn't mean he's never coming to Smash whatsoever. On the flipside, just because somebody feels that Geno is a lock for Smash doesn't mean he's confirmed.

Objectively speaking, the most that his absence says is that we have no idea if he'll make it to Smash or not. The absence of his Mii Costume in and of itself isn't confirmation or disconfirmation of him getting in Smash, but arguments can be made that it's certainly suspicious, since you'd expect it to return alongside fellow SquareEnix character , and yet it's still missing. The Mii Costume list could very well be nothing, it could be an elaborate troll set up by some bored insider like you've asserted numerous times, but arguments can be made in favor of it's legitimacy, especially since 4 of the 7 costumes listed have already been confirmed for the game.

But either way this goes, all I ask is that you make better arguments, raise better points, and try to stay objective about all this, because simply reasserting that it's still possible that this all means nothing, that Sakurai can do whatever he wants and nothing means anything, and failing that just throwing your arms up and going "Well I guess I'll just shut up, then!" only to come back a few days later regurgitating the same points as if nothing ever happened, is getting really tiring to listen to.

TL;DR Make better arguments or shut the **** up already.

 

[3DSNinja]

Also, Sakurai tried to get Geno in Brawl and presumably Sm4sh, but got rejected in favor of no character and Cloud. Here, though? We got Hero, an obvious corporate pick, and he doesn't come with a geno mii costume like cloud.

 

[wynn728]

Here's a question for you, wynn728 . Why do you continue write these long diatribes about how Geno's never coming to Smash, but can never point to anything solid to back up your assertions? For example, you claim that Sakurai hasn't put Geno in Smash yet because he hates him. Where exactly are you getting this from? You do know that there are plenty of characters who aren't in Smash yet, right? So does Sakurai hate them as well? What about King K. Rool? I've heard plenty of people say that he'd never come to Smash because Sakurai/Nintendo/Retro Studios/etc. hate him, especially after his Mii Fighter costume, and yet he got into Ultimate regardless.

You point out that Joker and Terry coming to Smash means that fan-favorite characters aren't going to be a high priority, and as such Geno has little chance to make it in, but you forget that most of the characters chosen were very much geared towards what people wanted based on the Smash Ballot. ,, and being the obvious ones, but , , ,,,, and as well, were all included based on the Ballot. If anything, characters like ,, are the exception rather than the rule. But I guess because these few characters exist and you don't care about Terry, that means that Geno will NEVER come to Smash, right? There's NO WAY they would include Geno as a fighter in Smash when someone like 2B exists, right? Despite many people wanting Geno for a long time and not many people really clamouring for 2B to get into Smash...

B-but that's just "Smash Bubble" thinking! You're seeing things from a biased perspective, man! Smash isn't just about catering to YOU, it's about branching out and catering to a larger demographic! THAT'S why Geno will never get in! Y'know, despite all the characters listed above that they put in that catered to what Smash fans really wanted, and despite the lack of characters that most casuals gamers would know better like Fortnite Guy, Freddy Fazbear, or Steve. And really ruminate on that last one for a second: Steve Minecraft, the face of one of one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, games of all time didn't make it into Smash, but did, all because more people in general wanted him.

Really, the whole "Smash Bubble" point is basically a fancy version of the relevancy argument. "[X] won't get in Smash because they/their game aren't/isn't relevant!" becomes "Only Smash fans/fans of [X] want [X], nobody else outside of your group wants them!". Instead of attacking an aspect of the character, namely their relevancy to gaming as a whole which has been proven time and time again to not be a factor in whether or not they can join Smash, the focus is on the fans themselves. It asserts that they're a loud vocal minority, and as such are disconnected from the REAL debates people are having and the REAL characters that people want, regardless if that's even true or not. In other words, "You're delusional!".

And before you jump to conclusion about me or anyone else in this thread giving you the business, I want to state the following: My problem with your points has NOTHING to do with you being skeptical and/or pessimistic. Rather, I just really hate bad or lazy arguments, and I hate it when people let their emotions cloud their judgements; It's clear to me that you very much feel that Geno has no shot, you've expressed that sentiment a lot in your posts, but those feelings don't necessarily translate to objective evidence. Just because you feel Geno has no shot at coming to Smash, it doesn't mean he's never coming to Smash whatsoever. On the flipside, just because somebody feels that Geno is a lock for Smash doesn't mean he's confirmed.

Objectively speaking, the most that his absence says is that we have no idea if he'll make it to Smash or not. The absence of his Mii Costume in and of itself isn't confirmation or disconfirmation of him getting in Smash, but arguments can be made that it's certainly suspicious, since you'd expect it to return alongside fellow SquareEnix character , and yet it's still missing. The Mii Costume list could very well be nothing, it could be an elaborate troll set up by some bored insider like you've asserted numerous times, but arguments can be made in favor of it's legitimacy, especially since 4 of the 7 costumes listed have already been confirmed for the game.

But either way this goes, all I ask is that you make better arguments, raise better points, and try to stay objective about all this, because simply reasserting that it's still possible that this all means nothing, that Sakurai can do whatever he wants and nothing means anything, and failing that just throwing your arms up and going "Well I guess I'll just shut up, then!" only to come back a few days later regurgitating the same points as if nothing ever happened, is getting really tiring to listen to.

TL;DR Make better arguments or shut the **** up already.

I'm not reading all that, but I never said Sakurai hates Geno. He just not a priority for Sakurai and he probably rather work on many other characters despite the fan demand. But whatever, if you guys think all this is literally point to Geno being confirmed then go ahead and believe, just don't be upset when Geno doesn't make it for the sixth time.

 

[Latyon]

Well Sakurai did say he doesn't like to talk about why certain characters don't make it into Smash Bros so he avoids those as much as possible. Though for Geno comment most likely had to do with see there was demand while they were negotiating for Cloud's inclusion and just decided to throw in a Geno Mii Costume just please those fans. If Sakurai really wanted to include Geno then wouldn't have passed him up 5 times. Also Sakurai was the one to go for Dragon Quest rep, he wasn't shackled by Nintendo and force to give up on Geno, that was a choice he made.

Yeah, because Sakurai saying that he absolutely not wanting a character to be included in a crossover fighter would totally go well. No, there's no way Sakurai is ever going to say that he doesn't want a particular video game character since that would piss off so many fans.

It gives me such joy when he does this to non-videogame characters, though. The salt from Goku fans when Sakurai compared Goku to Spongebob in terms of likelihood was muy caliente

 

[Rohanx17]

At this point it's either coming this week with the Japanese amiibo wave or they're going to hold it to the very end and do somthing big. I'm still betting on the former.

 

[Deleted member]

While Nintendo chose the fighter lineup, would Nintendo let Sakurai choose out any Mii costumes he desires?

 

[Herocin]

At this point it's either coming this week with the Japanese amiibo wave or they're going to hold it to the very end and do somthing big. I'm still betting on the former.

Next week?

 

[link2702]

I know pushdustin said not this coming week based on the japan ad, but surely that isn’t a set in stone rule right? What if they’re also wanting to surprise people? This is Nintendo after all.