Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[catsforlife1]

So I guess that Spirit Event mentoning SNK was a mistake. Whoops.

It was probably just a placeholder

 

[Firox]

The thing to keep in mind is that it's not a question of should they but will they. Most of these people especially at the top like themselves as artists of sorts and sakurai is no different. The idea of just repasting ultimate over and over might not go over well with his vision for the future.

Consider though that even Sakurai acknowledges the fact that we'll likely never hit this kind of pinnacle again. It's frankly unprecedented. When you look at Sakurai's otherwise flawless career of home-runs, I doubt he'd want to finish with a dud. That and, as I've said before, I feel that Smash bros as a franchise has pretty much hit critical mass. That is to say that there isn't a lot they can do besides adding characters, stages, or MAYBE new modes to sell us on the next iteration. With that in mind, I find it hard to believe that a game with LESS characters and/or stages will be able to sway the competitive scene or the more invested fans from Ultimate. Again, look at what happened with Melee. Bottom line is, Nintendo could TRY to make a Smash 6, but if they can't go significantly bigger in some way, it's not going to leave the mark that Ultimate did.

 

[Ovaltine]

You know, I realized something about the costume leak.

Why would we be given a Smithy costume? Heck, why a Mallow one? Geno's costume in the last game was fine enough SMRPG compensation already. We also got Geno's and Mallow's spirits in the base, but we never got a Smithy spirit or... anything else SMRPG-related. It's literally just those two. Why would we suddenly also have a Smithy costume? I could see Geno's coming back as compensation, and I could also see a Mallow one accompanying him, but Smithy, as well? Would Nintendo really go that bit farther with SMRPG 'compensation' like that? If the DLC never continued, we never would have even seen hide or hair of Smithy anyway. To top it off, even though I see a Mallow costume with Geno's being probable anyway, what would make them think to add that? Wouldn't they just find Geno's costume alone to be compensation enough? Why give us three SMRPG costumes instead of just giving us Geno's, the guy we've been rooting for all along anyway?

I dunno, I feel like something's weird about it, but I can't entirely place why. Call it a gut feeling, but... I just don't see Nintendo going that far if they weren't going to make Geno a fighter. I'd feel like we'd just get Geno's costume, Chocobo's hat, and that's it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Okay, given that, I'm certain we'll all still want to see Geno in a game again regardless, so if Geno doesn't make it into Ultimate, then what? What's our plan B? Push to get him into Mario Kart? Future Mario games?

I don't have a Plan B. If Geno doesn't get into Smash Ultimate, I'm more or less just going to look at him as a fond memory of a game I once played and accept that's as far as he got, with a small hope that Nintendo and Square Enix decide to make a Super Mario RPG 2. Unless Mario Kart seriously changes in the future, I don't expect third parties in it, and I don't think he'll ever be a character that can "just show-up" in other Mario games. I'm pretty sure his only two options for any future appearances are Smash and Super Mario RPG 2, and the first one's window will close at some point.

At the risk of starting some kind of thread-wide flamewar I've I would be completely content with a massively reduced roster that utilized alternate costumes and kept the 3rd-party bloat way down

Like if Sakurai told me tomorrow "this is the roster for the Smash reboot" I'd 100% fine with it
View attachment 244386

Nah. Third parties should still be a big focus of Smash going forward, and arguably are going to be a way to keep people more interested in the future when just Nintendo Smash isn't going to cut it. I still think Smash Bros. vs. Capcom or Smash Bros. vs Shounen Jump is how you handle things. I don't think, "less than half of the Ultimate roster plus Geno and Isaac" is going to appeal to much of a demographic beyond what has already been established, and is more than likely not going to be as successful of a title. The genie is out of the bottle for third parties and bigger names, you can't put it back in at this point no matter how much you want to. Nintendo isn't exactly going to jump at that when they've seen how much more Smash can be.

Also, that's a rough roster to be honest too. I like Ice Climbers, ROB, and Sheik, but I can't justify any of them really staying with cuts happening, and I'd say drop things like Star Fox down to just Fox and definitely not keeping Pokemon Trainer are ways to free up more space for other things since priority is going to be a pain anyway. Also, only five newcomers? Hell no. If we're dropping a **** load of characters, there better be a bunch of newcomers and they better be more interesting than stuff like Black Knight...

 

[Firox]

You know, I realized something about the costume leak.

Why would we be given a Smithy costume? Heck, why a Mallow one? Geno's costume in the last game was fine enough SMRPG compensation already. We also got Geno's and Mallow's spirits in the base, but we never got a Smithy spirit or... anything else SMRPG-related. It's literally just those two. Why would we suddenly also have a Smithy costume? I could see Geno's coming back as compensation, and I could also see a Mallow one accompanying him, but Smithy, as well? Would Nintendo really go that bit farther with SMRPG 'compensation' like that? If the DLC never continued, we never would have even seen hide or hair of Smithy anyway. To top it off, even though I see a Mallow costume with Geno's being probable anyway, what would make them think to add that? Wouldn't they just find Geno's costume alone to be compensation enough? Why give us three SMRPG costumes instead of just giving us Geno's, the guy we've been rooting for all along anyway?

I dunno, I feel like something's weird about it, but I can't entirely place why. Call it a gut feeling, but... I just don't see Nintendo going that far if they weren't going to make Geno a fighter. I'd feel like we'd just get Geno's costume, Chocobo's hat, and that's it.

Well, YEAH. If the leak is real, then we've got pretty much 100% chance that Geno is in. If it's fake, then he's still up in the air, but I doubt we'd get either costume unless Geno's in, PERIOD. I HIGHLY doubt that they would release any more SMRPG costumes otherwise.

 

[MattX20]

Well I've been doing a lot better. Recently graduated from college so spent the past several months reajusting to real life. Also some drama with a new job happened that went on for several months but it's all good now. I also was finally able to see my fave musical on Broadway so that was pretty sick.





I'm getting vibes of that meme where multiple Spidermen are pointing at each other from these pics.

It's good to see you back. Welcome back, Ani.

 

[Ovaltine]

Well, YEAH. If the leak is real, then we've got pretty much 100% chance that Geno is in. If it's fake, then he's still up in the air, but I doubt we'd get either costume unless Geno's in, PERIOD. I HIGHLY doubt that they would release any more SMRPG costumes otherwise.

I wouldn't quite say that. After all, Mallow and Smithy might not be real, even if some of the other bits of the leak did come true. Some leakers do that, throwing in fake information to offset the real stuff. I'm not about to discount that, and even if I'd find it odd to get those two WITH Geno's costume, I won't discount that either.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know I've been thinking and with this tweet here: https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1190337975084826624?s=20 saying that NoA wants Geno I wonder if the "Water cooler talk" way back when was just people around NoA talking about wanting Geno rather than him being in as DLC.

Maybe not but that was an interesting situation that crossed my mind.

 

[Plank08]

It's funny how a question that Ovaltine asked - consistently the most positive person in this thread - has sparked almost two pages worth of posts that feel kind of dejected.

This entire week has seen huge positivity for Geno, no reason to end it on such a low note. We'll have our boy soon enough, all the signs point to it, and if I'm wrong... Well, no better hill to die on than Star Hill.

I did get to thinking last night, though, that if they intend to give us Fighter 5 with Terry's information trailer, they're not going to drop it on us out of the blue like with Joker. It's been pretty obvious for a while that if there's going to be a new character reveal, they don't want it to be spoiled for anyone, so they've made sure to only show characters off during presentations that have been announced.

I think its a tie between her and QQS honestly

 

[Rohanx17]

Consider though that even Sakurai acknowledges the fact that we'll likely never hit this kind of pinnacle again. It's frankly unprecedented. When you look at Sakurai's otherwise flawless career of home-runs, I doubt he'd want to finish with a dud. That and, as I've said before, I feel that Smash bros as a franchise has pretty much hit critical mass. That is to say that there isn't a lot they can do besides adding characters, stages, or MAYBE new modes to sell us on the next iteration. With that in mind, I find it hard to believe that a game with LESS characters and/or stages will be able to sway the competitive scene or the more invested fans from Ultimate. Again, look at what happened with Melee. Bottom line is, Nintendo could TRY to make a Smash 6, but if they can't go significantly bigger in some way, it's not going to leave the mark that Ultimate did.

Yeah but see that's where the idea of a reboot keeps getting thrown around. It would provide the opportunity to totally overhaul everything that had previously been clung to only for it's legacy. I doubt the roster would be smaller than 4 even after condensing all the redundancies. Not to mention there is still plenty of design space for modes in and out of battle. brawl might be hot garbage but damn if it didn't have the best package of content to play through out of the whole bunch. This might even free them to do a proper story mode with all the design issues of subspace worked out.

 

[T2by4]

So what was in the letter that Nintendo sent back? It's so cool to hear they have our back regarding Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

At the risk of starting some kind of thread-wide flamewar I've I would be completely content with a massively reduced roster that utilized alternate costumes and kept the 3rd-party bloat way down
Like if Sakurai told me tomorrow "this is the roster for the Smash reboot" I'd 100% fine with it
View attachment 244386

I'd be fine with it as well. Geno and Isaac are in finally plus three Three of my mains Mario, Link, and King K. Rool are there. Whilst I hate losing Greninja and a lot of fighters it's an okay roster and I like it! I don't think all these characters the ones we have in Smash Ultimate will return Sakurai has alluded to this himself. Hope Ridley, and King K. Rool stay hope we get a lot of fan favourites but yeah. Hard to say what the roster will be! Kind of scares me. Don't want to lose a lot of them. But at the same time. Some may get cut.

 

[CannonStreak]

Kinda off topic, but...

Gee, it sure is boring around here. *Rolls eyes*

The info on the next fighter can't come soon enough, even if this peace is what all true Smash fans strive for.

 

[wynn728]

You know, I realized something about the costume leak.

Why would we be given a Smithy costume? Heck, why a Mallow one? Geno's costume in the last game was fine enough SMRPG compensation already. We also got Geno's and Mallow's spirits in the base, but we never got a Smithy spirit or... anything else SMRPG-related. It's literally just those two. Why would we suddenly also have a Smithy costume? I could see Geno's coming back as compensation, and I could also see a Mallow one accompanying him, but Smithy, as well? Would Nintendo really go that bit farther with SMRPG 'compensation' like that? If the DLC never continued, we never would have even seen hide or hair of Smithy anyway. To top it off, even though I see a Mallow costume with Geno's being probable anyway, what would make them think to add that? Wouldn't they just find Geno's costume alone to be compensation enough? Why give us three SMRPG costumes instead of just giving us Geno's, the guy we've been rooting for all along anyway?

I dunno, I feel like something's weird about it, but I can't entirely place why. Call it a gut feeling, but... I just don't see Nintendo going that far if they weren't going to make Geno a fighter. I'd feel like we'd just get Geno's costume, Chocobo's hat, and that's it.

We seen many times Sakurai & Nintendo trying to answer fan demand with what they think people like, but end up hitting the wrong mark. So I can totally see them adding all three as a costume without Geno being playable since they believe that would make the fans super happy.

There was demand to see more Sonic content but instead of making a Shadow Echo Fighter they put Knuckles as an extra Assist Trophy.
There was demand for Ridley so they made him a Boss in Brawl. Heard more demand and decide to make him a stage boss thinking the fans would go nuts.
They think the Shantae & Rayman fans would be happy that their character were png files for Ultimate.
They also think that if they made certain characters a Legendary Spirit that would also make fans extremely happy and be a great consolations for not being playable.
They totally would think that all this extra stuff and SMRPG reference would make the fans just as happy if he were playable, so they go for the least amount of effort to get the most happiness and they can work on other things.

 

[Rohanx17]

Y'know I've been thinking and with this tweet here: https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1190337975084826624?s=20 saying that NoA wants Geno I wonder if the "Water cooler talk" way back when was just people around NoA talking about wanting Geno rather than him being in as DLC.

Maybe not but that was an interesting situation that crossed my mind.

Well its possible that they might have just been handed off to especially nice person, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's also possible that water cooler talk has some value. How crazy would it be if geno's inclusion was actually due to an internal effort all this time?

 

[Grumbo]

Y'know I've been thinking and with this tweet here: https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1190337975084826624?s=20 saying that NoA wants Geno I wonder if the "Water cooler talk" way back when was just people around NoA talking about wanting Geno rather than him being in as DLC.

Maybe not but that was an interesting situation that crossed my mind.

If anything this is good for us. Seems like even the lower levels at nintendo are aware of Geno and his demand. And if the were actual rumors going around, im sure that put him on their minds. Plus if they actually knew something theyd have to feign ignorance in the letter.

 

[catsforlife1]

We seen many times Sakurai & Nintendo trying to answer fan demand with what they think people like, but end up hitting the wrong mark. So I can totally see them adding all three as a costume without Geno being playable since they believe that would make the fans super happy.

There was demand to see more Sonic content but instead of making a Shadow Echo Fighter they put Knuckles as an extra Assist Trophy.
There was demand for Ridley so they made him a Boss in Brawl. Heard more demand and decide to make him a stage boss thinking the fans would go nuts.
They think the Shantae & Rayman fans would be happy that their character were png files for Ultimate.
They also think that if they made certain characters a Legendary Spirit that would also make fans extremely happy and be a great consolations for not being playable.
They totally would think that all this extra stuff and SMRPG reference would make the fans just as happy if he were playable, so they go for the least amount of effort to get the most happiness and they can work on other things.

Thats completely different then the mii thing. All of those things were really easy to add. Square has proven to be the most difficult company so fair to work with. I find it hard to belive square would be this generous with costumes if Genos not a fighter.

 

[wynn728]

Thats completely different then the mii thing. All of those things were really easy to add. Square has proven to be the most difficult company so fair to work with. I find it hard to belive square would be this generous with costumes if Genos not a fighter.

Well we got conflicting reports with how Square Enix was perfect to work with when it comes to Dragon Quest inclusion, including offering two extra characters for Hero's alt.

 

[catsforlife1]

Well we got conflicting reports with how Square Enix was perfect to work with when it comes to Dragon Quest inclusion, including offering two extra characters for Hero's alt.

That does not mean anything. Sure they are more willing to work but they are still pretty stingy. For example why did me only get 2 ff songs and no spirits?
Plus that was cus dq was going to be a fighter. It does not mean they would willing give us two new smrpg outfits without geno.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That does not mean anything. Sure they are more willing to work but they are still pretty stingy. For example why did me only get 2 ff songs and no spirits?
Plus that was cus dq was going to be a fighter. It does not mean they would willing give us two new smrpg outfits without geno.

I think the Final Fantasy stuff has to do with copyright stuffs or whoever owns it all, since it's not just Square Enix themselves who owns rights to the music and whatever.

 

[waterhasataste]

We seen many times Sakurai & Nintendo trying to answer fan demand with what they think people like, but end up hitting the wrong mark. So I can totally see them adding all three as a costume without Geno being playable since they believe that would make the fans super happy.

There was demand to see more Sonic content but instead of making a Shadow Echo Fighter they put Knuckles as an extra Assist Trophy.
There was demand for Ridley so they made him a Boss in Brawl. Heard more demand and decide to make him a stage boss thinking the fans would go nuts.
They think the Shantae & Rayman fans would be happy that their character were png files for Ultimate.
They also think that if they made certain characters a Legendary Spirit that would also make fans extremely happy and be a great consolations for not being playable.
They totally would think that all this extra stuff and SMRPG reference would make the fans just as happy if he were playable, so they go for the least amount of effort to get the most happiness and they can work on other things.

That's possible but there's still some other things to consider. Sakurai himself is fully aware of the support for Geno to be a playable character. I'm not saying Sakurai understands everything the fans want, however the add ins of a bunch of fan favorites at least shows he's in tune with the fans to some degree and based on his statements, he was actually aware of the character's demand pre Smash Ballot. I seriously don't think Nintendo is that blind. If we end up getting Mario RPG Costumes but no playable Geno, it won't be because Nintendo thinks the Mii Costumes would satisfy the fans, it'll be because ether:
A. The priorities are to focus on the 3rd parties for DLC
B. Square doesn't really want him playable for whatever reason

Also just to address some other stuff you've mentioned

-Lack of new Sonic content could be a Sega thing rather than Nintendo themselves

-Ridley was at a time where Sakurai had the "too big" mindset so he was likely trying to find ways at the time to work around it since he didn't believe then that Ridley could be playable without betraying his orgins

-Shantae is an indie character. I don't mean that as an insult, but historically, Indies have yet to become fighters. Undertale is one of the biggest indie games ever made and yet the most we got was a Mii Costume and a music track

-Rayman is popular, but we don't know how the perception is from Nintendo in terms of fan demand. He might have done just okay in the ballot. We don't know the results. We also don't know if he's being worked on right now, future DLC is up in the air, and if Geno can be upgraded from a Spirit so can Rayman. I should also stress, not every fan favorite can make it in. I think it's more of a case of Nintendo being like "well we can't make them a fighter, but what's the next best thing" rather than "this PNG will satisfy people's cravings for x character to be a fighter"

-I don't think Nintendo sees legendary spirits as a method to satisfy fans. Rayman and Shantae, the ones you say that have a large following, aren't even legendaries. But then we have a characters like James McCloud, Wind Fish, and even a frigging Shine Spite who are legendaries

I'm not saying Nintendo is perfect when it comes to hearing fans (stares at Nintendo Switch Online agressively) but come on, I think we ought to give them more credit than that. Especially since Ultimate in of itself consistently has done a lot of things to please the fans already

Edit: minor rewording and fixed typo

 

[StarLight42]

That's possible but there's still some other things to consider. Sakurai himself is fully aware of the support for Geno to be a playable character. I'm not saying Sakurai understands everything the fans want, however the add ins of a bunch of fan favorites at least shows he's in tune with the fans to some degree and based on his statements, he was actually aware of the character's demand pre Smash Ballot. I seriously don't think Nintendo is that blind. If we end up getting Mario RPG Costumes but no playable Geno, it won't be because Nintendo thinks the Mii Costumes would satisfy the fans, it'll be because ether:
A. The priorities are to focus on the 3rd parties for DLC
B. Square doesn't really want him playable for whatever reason

Also just to address some other stuff you've mentioned

-Lack of new Sonic content could be a Sega thing rather than Nintendo themselves

-Ridley was at a time where Sakurai had the "too big" mindset so he was likely trying to find ways at the time to work around it since he didn't believe then that Ridley could be playable without betraying his orgins

-Shantae is an indie character. I don't mean that as an insult, but historically, Indies have yet to become fighters. Undertale is one of the biggest indie games ever made and yet the most we got was a Mii Costume and a music track

-Rayman is popular, but we don't know how the perception is from Nintendo in terms of fan demand. He might have done just okay in the ballot. We don't know the results. We also don't know if he's being worked on right now, future DLC is up in the air, and if Geno can be upgraded from a Spirit so can Rayman. I should also stress, not every fan favorite can make it in. I think it's more of a case of Nintendo being like "well we can't make them a fighter, but what's the next best thing" rather than "this PNG will satisfy people's cravings for x character to be a fighter"

-I don't think Nintendo sees legendary spirits as a method to satisfy fans. Rayman and Shantae, the ones you say that have a large following, aren't even legendaries. But then we have a characters like James McCloud, Wind Fish, and even a frigging Shine Spite who are legendaries

I'm not saying Nintendo is perfect when it comes to hearing fans (stares at Nintendo Switch Online agressively) but come on, I think we ought to give them more credit than that. Especially since Ultimate in of itself consistently has done a lot of things to please the fans already

Edit: minor rewording and fixed typo

Shine Sprite for smash.

 

[Firox]

Yeah but see that's where the idea of a reboot keeps getting thrown around. It would provide the opportunity to totally overall everything that had previously been clung to only for it's legacy. I doubt the roster would be smaller than 4 even after condensing all the redundancies. Not to mention there is still plenty of design space for modes in and out of battle. brawl might be hot garbage but damn if it didn't have the best package of content to play through out of the whole bunch. This might even free them to do a proper story mode with all the design issues of subspace worked out.

I do have to admit, Brawl had the best "story" mode we've seen by far. If they did something similar but even bigger for Smash 6, that would at least give the fans a selling point.

 

[Rohanx17]

I do have to admit, Brawl had the best "story" mode we've seen by far. If they did something similar but even bigger for Smash 6, that would at least give the fans a selling point.

I swear if when 6 rolls around the only back dash we ever got in smash is a one off glitch and an incidental from ryu's gimmick I'm going to riot.

 

[wynn728]

That's possible but there's still some other things to consider. Sakurai himself is fully aware of the support for Geno to be a playable character. I'm not saying Sakurai understands everything the fans want, however the add ins of a bunch of fan favorites at least shows he's in tune with the fans to some degree and based on his statements, he was actually aware of the character's demand pre Smash Ballot. I seriously don't think Nintendo is that blind. If we end up getting Mario RPG Costumes but no playable Geno, it won't be because Nintendo thinks the Mii Costumes would satisfy the fans, it'll be because ether:
A. The priorities are to focus on the 3rd parties for DLC
B. Square doesn't really want him playable for whatever reason

Also just to address some other stuff you've mentioned

-Lack of new Sonic content could be a Sega thing rather than Nintendo themselves

-Ridley was at a time where Sakurai had the "too big" mindset so he was likely trying to find ways at the time to work around it since he didn't believe then that Ridley could be playable without betraying his orgins

-Shantae is an indie character. I don't mean that as an insult, but historically, Indies have yet to become fighters. Undertale is one of the biggest indie games ever made and yet the most we got was a Mii Costume and a music track

-Rayman is popular, but we don't know how the perception is from Nintendo in terms of fan demand. He might have done just okay in the ballot. We don't know the results. We also don't know if he's being worked on right now, future DLC is up in the air, and if Geno can be upgraded from a Spirit so can Rayman. I should also stress, not every fan favorite can make it in. I think it's more of a case of Nintendo being like "well we can't make them a fighter, but what's the next best thing" rather than "this PNG will satisfy people's cravings for x character to be a fighter"

-I don't think Nintendo sees legendary spirits as a method to satisfy fans. Rayman and Shantae, the ones you say that have a large following, aren't even legendaries. But then we have a characters like James McCloud, Wind Fish, and even a frigging Shine Spite who are legendaries

I'm not saying Nintendo is perfect when it comes to hearing fans (stares at Nintendo Switch Online agressively) but come on, I think we ought to give them more credit than that. Especially since Ultimate in of itself consistently has done a lot of things to please the fans already

Edit: minor rewording and fixed typo

Yes, Ultimate has done a lot of things to please fans, I won't deny that. But with recent trends we're seeing them shift from listening to fan demand to being more of their specific interest. Like ever since last year November we got an obligation as the last fighter for the base roster when they were making a big deal about when characters were added in, then Piranha Plant (sure not everyone can get in, but they legit sat down and said this character had to get in over the many fan requested characters), then we got Joker because Sakurai loves Persona 5, then Hero happen for promote DQ XI S and Sakurai also loves that series, then we got one fan requested answers with Banjo, and now we got Terry Bogard because Sakurai loves King of Fighters. Within a year timeframe of them announcing Smash Bros character we only got one that was due to fan demand. I know I'm gonna get nagged about this, but honestly believe that they think they did enough for fans already so they don't have to listen anymore. (I know Sakurai said he's doing more DLC to make fans happy, but he also said that the Fighter Ballot will have a great effect of the current Fighters Pass and there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that Joker & Terry Bogard scored extremely high back in 2015 on that ballot).

I know I'm usually doom & gloom to a point that's annoying, but not much in the past year has inspired confidence that we're going to get that same feeling that we did back in E3 & the August Direct, especially with the fifth fighter is most likely going to be a character that we never thought was going to happen and weren't really asking for. It feels more likely that they will just include Mii Costume of SMRPG characters instead of fully comminting to making Geno playable since that's the amount of effort they're will to give.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, Ultimate has done a lot of things to please fans, I won't deny that. But with recent trends we're seeing them shift from listening to fan demand to being more of their specific interest. Like ever since last year November we got an obligation as the last fighter for the base roster when they were making a big deal about when characters were added in, then Piranha Plant (sure not everyone can get in, but they legit sat down and said this character had to get in over the many fan requested characters), then we got Joker because Sakurai loves Persona 5, then Hero happen for promote DQ XI S and Sakurai also loves that series, then we got one fan requested answers with Banjo, and now we got Terry Bogard because Sakurai loves King of Fighters. Within a year timeframe of them announcing Smash Bros character we only got one that was due to fan demand. I know I'm gonna get nagged about this, but honestly believe that they think they did enough for fans already so they don't have to listen anymore. (I know Sakurai said he's doing more DLC to make fans happy, but he also said that the Fighter Ballot will have a great effect of the current Fighters Pass and there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that Joker & Terry Bogard scored extremely high back in 2015 on that ballot).

I know I'm usually doom & gloom to a point that's annoying, but not much in the past year has inspired confidence that we're going to get that same feeling that we did back in E3 & the August Direct, especially with the fifth fighter is most likely going to be a character that we never thought was going to happen and weren't really asking for. It feels more likely that they will just include Mii Costume of SMRPG characters instead of fully comminting to making Geno playable since that's the amount of effort they're will to give.

When did they say the that the ballot has an affect on the Fighter’s Pass? And enough with Piranha Plant... please. This trend has been going on before Ultimate. He adds an unexpected character to add diversity. That doesn’t mean they won’t stop adding more requests. This is not a single piece of evidence Sakurai said he chose Joker and Terry due to the ballot as you claimed.

 

[catsforlife1]

Yes, Ultimate has done a lot of things to please fans, I won't deny that. But with recent trends we're seeing them shift from listening to fan demand to being more of their specific interest. Like ever since last year November we got an obligation as the last fighter for the base roster when they were making a big deal about when characters were added in, then Piranha Plant (sure not everyone can get in, but they legit sat down and said this character had to get in over the many fan requested characters), then we got Joker because Sakurai loves Persona 5, then Hero happen for promote DQ XI S and Sakurai also loves that series, then we got one fan requested answers with Banjo, and now we got Terry Bogard because Sakurai loves King of Fighters. Within a year timeframe of them announcing Smash Bros character we only got one that was due to fan demand. I know I'm gonna get nagged about this, but honestly believe that they think they did enough for fans already so they don't have to listen anymore. (I know Sakurai said he's doing more DLC to make fans happy, but he also said that the Fighter Ballot will have a great effect of the current Fighters Pass and there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that Joker & Terry Bogard scored extremely high back in 2015 on that ballot).

I know I'm usually doom & gloom to a point that's annoying, but not much in the past year has inspired confidence that we're going to get that same feeling that we did back in E3 & the August Direct, especially with the fifth fighter is most likely going to be a character that we never thought was going to happen and weren't really asking for. It feels more likely that they will just include Mii Costume of SMRPG characters instead of fully comminting to making Geno playable since that's the amount of effort they're will to give.

Dude for the love of god just stop. Just because most of the dlc are not big fan request does not mean they wont give us more fan request. You forget sakuri like games to so its natural he wanted to add some characters from said games in smash. Your whole stick about how there is not many dlc request is weak and annoying. Stop acting like nintendo and sakurai hates the ballot because it is pretty clear that they dont.

 

[wynn728]

When did they say the that the ballot has an affect on the Fighter’s Pass? And enough with Piranha Plant... please. This trend has been going on before Ultimate. He adds an unexpected character to add diversity. That doesn’t mean they won’t stop adding more requests.

Sakurai confirmed there are no plans to hold a Smash Ballot for Super Smash Bros Ultimate as they will be using the previous ballot’s results for Super Smash Bros For Wii U/3DS.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninten...-characters-in-super-smash-bros-ultimate/amp/

Sure there's always a random character added in previous titles, but just like Sakurai said "we can't add in that many characters this time around." So probably would be for the best to include as much fan favorite instead of random unexpecting characters like Plant, especially when you have characters like Joker & Terry filling that role as well.

 

[catsforlife1]

Sakurai confirmed there are no plans to hold a Smash Ballot for Super Smash Bros Ultimate as they will be using the previous ballot’s results for Super Smash Bros For Wii U/3DS.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninten...-characters-in-super-smash-bros-ultimate/amp/

Sure there's always a random character added in previous titles, but just like Sakurai said "we can't add in that many characters this time around." So probably would be for the best to include as much fan favorite instead of random unexpecting characters like Plant, especially when you have characters like Joker & Terry filling that role as well.

Dude most of the roster so fair are fan request.

A-lot of the returning vedran characters were requested. Ridley, Krool, Simon, and banjo were big request. The inklings and dasiy were requested during the ballot days. Chrom and dark samus were requested. That is quite a bit of request for one game.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai confirmed there are no plans to hold a Smash Ballot for Super Smash Bros Ultimate as they will be using the previous ballot’s results for Super Smash Bros For Wii U/3DS.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninten...-characters-in-super-smash-bros-ultimate/amp/

Sure there's always a random character added in previous titles, but just like Sakurai said "we can't add in that many characters this time around." So probably would be for the best to include as much fan favorite instead of random unexpecting characters like Plant, especially when you have characters like Joker & Terry filling that role as well.

That does not mean they stopped caring. That does not apply Sakurai chose Joker and Terry due to the ballot as you claimed. Just because there is not many requested fighters as DLC doesn’t mean they stopped caring. There’s still a chance to add Rex, Geno, Rayman, Sora, Bandana Dee, Steve, and etc. I’m can’t help but to feel a sense of entitlement since you’re thinking that they don’t care about us anymore because of Plant and a couple of Sakurai picks. Snake, ice climbers, inkling, dark samus, k Rool, Castlevania, Wolf, chrom, Ridley, we’re in due to fan demand that’s most of the Ultimate’s base roster.

 

[waterhasataste]

Yes, Ultimate has done a lot of things to please fans, I won't deny that. But with recent trends we're seeing them shift from listening to fan demand to being more of their specific interest. Like ever since last year November we got an obligation as the last fighter for the base roster when they were making a big deal about when characters were added in, then Piranha Plant (sure not everyone can get in, but they legit sat down and said this character had to get in over the many fan requested characters), then we got Joker because Sakurai loves Persona 5, then Hero happen for promote DQ XI S and Sakurai also loves that series, then we got one fan requested answers with Banjo, and now we got Terry Bogard because Sakurai loves King of Fighters. Within a year timeframe of them announcing Smash Bros character we only got one that was due to fan demand. I know I'm gonna get nagged about this, but honestly believe that they think they did enough for fans already so they don't have to listen anymore. (I know Sakurai said he's doing more DLC to make fans happy, but he also said that the Fighter Ballot will have a great effect of the current Fighters Pass and there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me that Joker & Terry Bogard scored extremely high back in 2015 on that ballot).

I know I'm usually doom & gloom to a point that's annoying, but not much in the past year has inspired confidence that we're going to get that same feeling that we did back in E3 & the August Direct, especially with the fifth fighter is most likely going to be a character that we never thought was going to happen and weren't really asking for. It feels more likely that they will just include Mii Costume of SMRPG characters instead of fully comminting to making Geno playable since that's the amount of effort they're will to give.

Some of the stuff you've mentioned here is kinda the point I was making. My main point was that I don't think Nintendo is that oblivious to the fan demand to Geno and that his Mii Costume returning wouldn't be viewed as "oh hey this Geno Mii Costume would totally be good enough to please the fans!" by them. Especially since the creator himself has acknowledged his demand. But you are right that the shift has focused to start including whatever 3rd party characters they want, which is why the more likely scenario is that Geno coming as a Mii Costume would be more meant as:

"Our focus right now is bringing in new 3rd parties to expand this crossover since this might be the only chance we can make certain match ups possible. Unfortunately because of this shift in focus, characters like Geno won't make the cut. However rather than leave you with nothing, we'll at least bring his costume back and throw in some others as a bonus so at least you guys can get something. Maybe some other day if the support is still strong"

Rather than:

"WASSUP GENO FANS!? We got something we KNOW you'll be excited about! THAT'S RIGHT! Geno is a Mii Costume!!! AGAIN!!! We've heard the demand and we're bringing it back! And we ALSO included Mallow and Smithy ones as well! Ain't that the coolest thing ever!?!? I bet you all are super pleased with this decision! We at Nintendo ALWAYS strive to satisfy the fans!!!!!"

 

[wynn728]

Dude most of the roster so fair are fan request.

A-lot of the returning vedran characters were requested. Ridley, Krool, Simon, and banjo were big request. The inklings and dasiy were requested during the ballot days. Chrom and dark samus were requested. That is quite a bit of request for one game.

I admit that the roster is made up of fan requested (except for Dark Samus, I never in my life seen any demand for that character to be included until Echo Fighters were a thing and extremely doubt Sakurai's claim that the Japanese audience wanted her when they kept calling Ridley Captain America), but that time is over. I doubt for future characters they going to take any fan demand into consideration, especially with Geno most likely coming back as a Mii Costume due to how the Mallow & Smithy Costumes were heard about a couple months ago giving the impression they're releasing within the current Fighters Pass and there's no way Geno is Fifth Fighter.

 

[catsforlife1]

I admit that the roster is made up of fan requested (except for Dark Samus, I never in my life seen any demand for that character to be included until Echo Fighters were a thing and extremely doubt Sakurai's claim that the Japanese audience wanted her when they kept calling Ridley Captain America), but that time is over. I doubt for future characters they going to take any fan demand into consideration, especially with Geno most likely coming back as a Mii Costume due to how the Mallow & Smithy Costumes were heard about a couple months ago giving the impression they're releasing within the current Fighters Pass and there's no way Geno is Fifth Fighter.

Or you know hes a part of the extra dlc. Plus we got banjo as dlc so that is not true at all. Sakuri even said he sees a future were more fan request like ridley k rool and banjo will happen in the future. So stop with all this bs about them not caring. Lets just hope for the best.

 

[wynn728]

Some of the stuff you've mentioned here is kinda the point I was making. My main point was that I don't think Nintendo is that oblivious to the fan demand to Geno and that his Mii Costume returning wouldn't be viewed as "oh hey this Geno Mii Costume would totally be good enough to please the fans!" by them. Especially since the creator himself has acknowledged his demand. But you are right that the shift has focused to start including whatever 3rd party characters they want, which is why the more likely scenario is that Geno coming as a Mii Costume would be more meant as:

"Our focus right now is bringing in new 3rd parties to expand this crossover since this might be the only chance we can make certain match ups possible. Unfortunately because of this shift in focus, characters like Geno won't make the cut. However rather than leave you with nothing, we'll at least bring his costume back and throw in some others as a bonus so at least you guys can get something. Maybe some other day if the support is still strong"

Rather than:

"WASSUP GENO FANS!? We got something we KNOW you'll be excited about! THAT'S RIGHT! Geno is a Mii Costume!!! AGAIN!!! We've heard the demand and we're bringing it back! And we ALSO included Mallow and Smithy ones as well! Ain't that the coolest thing ever!?!? I bet you all are super pleased with this decision! We at Nintendo ALWAYS strive to satisfy the fans!!!!!"

Why wouldn't they think like that? People keep buying Mii Costumes and they most likely ignore all the hate they actually get (because this fanbase is all about being super happy and calling people out for not liking certain stuff), so they probably still think that Mii Costume are the way to go. It's like Sakurai said for Rex "we didn't have time to include him, but I think this Mii Costume is a great way to feel like you're playing as him."
Sakurai acknowledged that these aren't just consolation prizes, but legit the second best way to include these characters without really working on them.

Or you know hes a part of the extra dlc. Plus we got banjo as dlc so that is not true at all. Sakuri even said he sees a future were more fan request like ridley k rool and banjo will happen in the future. So stop with all this bs about them not caring. Lets just hope for the best.

If that Geno Mii Costume comes out within this Fighters Pass, either with Terry or Fifth Fighter, then Geno isn't going to be an extra DLC fighter. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[catsforlife1]

If that Geno Mii Costume comes out within this Fighters Pass, either with Terry or Fifth Fighter, then Geno isn't going to be an extra DLC fighter. I will believe it when I see it.

Well ya obviously. but dude your stick with sakrui hateing fans/the ballot has gotten old already.

 

[Deleted member]

I admit that the roster is made up of fan requested (except for Dark Samus, I never in my life seen any demand for that character to be included until Echo Fighters were a thing and extremely doubt Sakurai's claim that the Japanese audience wanted her when they kept calling Ridley Captain America), but that time is over. I doubt for future characters they going to take any fan demand into consideration, especially with Geno most likely coming back as a Mii Costume due to how the Mallow & Smithy Costumes were heard about a couple months ago giving the impression they're releasing within the current Fighters Pass and there's no way Geno is Fifth Fighter.

Sakurai literally said that more requests will be granted in the Banjo interview. What if the Mallow or Smithy costume leak wasn’t real all along? Pretty unlikely that Square Enix characters would come with Terry. Or the 5th fighter unless there’s an Akita costume. I get that you want to have low expectations, but your pessimism makes no sense as usual.

 

[catsforlife1]

Sakurai literally said that more requests will be granted in the Banjo interview. What if the Mallow or Smithy costume leak wasn’t real all along? Pretty unlikely that Square Enix characters would come with Terry. Or the 5th fighter unless there’s an Akita costume. I get that you want to have low expectations, but your pessimism makes no sense as usual.

I mean it could still be real even if its not for the fp. Remember banjo and hero got leaked before dlc was announced. I agree with everything else you said tho.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh I know, I say that as a possibility.

 

[SSGuy]

You know, I realized something about the costume leak.

Why would we be given a Smithy costume? Heck, why a Mallow one? Geno's costume in the last game was fine enough SMRPG compensation already. We also got Geno's and Mallow's spirits in the base, but we never got a Smithy spirit or... anything else SMRPG-related. It's literally just those two. Why would we suddenly also have a Smithy costume? I could see Geno's coming back as compensation, and I could also see a Mallow one accompanying him, but Smithy, as well? Would Nintendo really go that bit farther with SMRPG 'compensation' like that? If the DLC never continued, we never would have even seen hide or hair of Smithy anyway. To top it off, even though I see a Mallow costume with Geno's being probable anyway, what would make them think to add that? Wouldn't they just find Geno's costume alone to be compensation enough? Why give us three SMRPG costumes instead of just giving us Geno's, the guy we've been rooting for all along anyway?

I dunno, I feel like something's weird about it, but I can't entirely place why. Call it a gut feeling, but... I just don't see Nintendo going that far if they weren't going to make Geno a fighter. I'd feel like we'd just get Geno's costume, Chocobo's hat, and that's it.

I can believe in a reality where we get these costumes.

Geno - Mii Gunner
Mallow - Mii Brawler
Smithy - Mii Sword Fighter (With Exor as the Sword)

 

[waterhasataste]

I admit that the roster is made up of fan requested (except for Dark Samus, I never in my life seen any demand for that character to be included until Echo Fighters were a thing and extremely doubt Sakurai's claim that the Japanese audience wanted her when they kept calling Ridley Captain America), but that time is over. I doubt for future characters they going to take any fan demand into consideration, especially with Geno most likely coming back as a Mii Costume due to how the Mallow & Smithy Costumes were heard about a couple months ago giving the impression they're releasing within the current Fighters Pass and there's no way Geno is Fifth Fighter.

I don't think fan demand is completely dead though. Nintendo negotiated with Microsoft. Microsoft holds Steve and Master Chief. Some of the most recognizable characters in the west. They could've gone for those characters. Those characters would likely break the internet, garner a ton of press and would've likely gotten a bunch of Microsoft fans to buy a Switch. Yet they went and asked for Banjo. A series that was completely dead at the time. Why???

Because the fans asked for it

It's not crazy to assume they'll do it again. And in terms of Geno, if he's not the 5th, he could be the 6th or 7th. There's no way they haven't already started working on the next DLC. You would be mistaken to think that it was only recently new DLC has gone underway. It was likely planned months before the official announcement

Why wouldn't they think like that? People keep buying Mii Costumes and they most likely ignore all the hate they actually get (because this fanbase is all about being super happy and calling people out for not liking certain stuff), so they probably still think that Mii Costume are the way to go. It's like Sakurai said for Rex "we didn't have time to include him, but I think this Mii Costume is a great way to feel like you're playing as him."
Sakurai acknowledged that these aren't just consolation prizes, but legit the second best way to include these characters without really working on them.

Alright then. Why not just keep the K Rool Costume and say "there ya go, that's good enough!". Why waste time making K Rool fully playable when keeping the costume was the option? Same with Simon, why not make him a costume instead? Ridley? Banjo costume while we at Nintendo get Steve instead because he'll make more money than some old irrelevant bear? Like come on, this is why I had to reiterate the fact that Nintendo is aware of the fans. Because even though you say you know, it sometimes comes off as "Nintendo doesn't care".

Also Rex was a character that existed after the ballot. Which is where the fan requests are coming from. Rex also does not line up with the DLC plans, which you've stated seem focused on 3rd parties. I don't mean to insult Rex, but I don't think he carried the same weight as some of the other fan favorites that made it in like Banjo

Nintendo is paying attention this time. Just because a couple of fan requests (and by the way, we still have no way of actually proving 100% that they did good enough on the ballot to warrant consideration as full on fighters) ended up as costumes does not mean they automatically think that this is the way fans will be pleased. I highly doubt that after Sakurai himself has acknowledged that he knows Geno is demanded to be playable means that Nintendo sees it as "make them a Mii Costume". Because if that was the case, then by that logic every fan favorite should've been Mii Fighters instead of wasting time bringing back irrelevant characters that don't matter as much in today's time. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong. But I highly doubt this is Nintendo's mind set

Edit: Minor tweaks