Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

LOL I've never quite heard them described like THAT before, but since you invoked the word "jedi", I have to ask:

We talking Ahsoka Tano-style dual wielding or pansy Anakin Attack-of-the-Clones-style dual wielding? Both were "holy crap awesome jedi wow" until the latter ended with an abrupt loss of said Jedi's arms...

You know, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, so neither of those really stick out in my mind. I just love to poke fun at how over the top the swordplay is in Star Wars.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

For me? Let's see...
Brawl:
Marth
Ike

Now:
Marth
Lucina
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Corrin

and just so that I'm not just dunking on FE:

Shulk
Hero
Every Link ever

It's just over saturated and I can't see him bringing something unique anymore. I've said before that back in Brawl speculation I thought Lloyd would have been super cool, but I'm just not warm on him anymore.

Tbh I kind of agree. Sure, Lloyd does wield two swords, but the fantasy swordsman aesthetic is kind of oversaturated, and for twin swords you can use a sci-fi based swordswoman with twin swords to boot (Elma, Fiora) or even a straight up sci-fi JRPG robot female if we're going for Namco itself (KOS-MOS).

I feel like if we were to get a Tales character at this point it would probably be Velvet Crowe, who is neither male nor a sword wielder.

or Estelle, as in Estellise Sidos Heurassein from Tales of Vesperia, imagine the confusion if she got in over Yuri, AND we'd have a White Mage type character in Smash. that would be interesting.

 

[Rohanx17]

For me? Let's see...
Brawl:
Marth
Ike

Now:
Marth
Lucina
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Corrin

and just so that I'm not just dunking on FE:

Shulk
Hero
Every Link ever

It's just over saturated and I can't see him bringing something unique anymore. I've said before that back in Brawl speculation I thought Lloyd would have been super cool, but I'm just not warm on him anymore.

I'll happily back you on the Marth quartet they should have been condensed hero style a long time ago. But maybe it's just the Isaac supporter in me but I don't get why having a sword is a problem, especially when a significantly higher percentage fights with their fists and no one has ever complained about that. It's not like any of the non Marths fight even remotely the same. Just seems like a strange hill to die on is all.

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh I kind of agree. Sure, Lloyd does wield two swords, but the fantasy swordsman aesthetic is kind of oversaturated, and for twin swords you can use a sci-fi based swordswoman (Elma, Fiora) or even a straight up sci-fi JRPG robot female if we're going for Namco itself (KOS-MOS).

I feel like if we were to get a Tales character at this point it would probably be Velvet Crowe, who is neither male nor a sword wielder.

or Estelle, as in Estellise Sidos Heurassein from Tales of Vesperia, imagine the confusion if she got in over Yuri, AND we'd have a White Mage type character in Smash. that would be interesting.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm discounting Lloyd's chances when I complain about him, it's purely a "I don't want him anymore and here's why". I think that for better or for worse, he's the face of "Tales Of", especially in the west. He has a suspiciously absent costume, the company that owns him is strangely underrepresented in Smash both in fighters and spirits, and based on Sakurai's comments about his Mii costume, I have to assume he likes him.

Still really hoping that if Namco wants another rep we get Klonoa or Valkyrie or Agumon.

 

[Firox]

For me? Let's see...
Brawl:
Marth
Ike

Now:
Marth
Lucina
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Corrin

and just so that I'm not just dunking on FE:

Shulk
Hero
Every Link ever

It's just over saturated and I can't see him bringing something unique anymore. I've said before that back in Brawl speculation I thought Lloyd would have been super cool, but I'm just not warm on him anymore.

I gotta admit, we ARE pretty saturated with Swordsmen (you forgot to add Metaknight and Cloud to your list). Not to say that many of them don't offer their own unique charm, but Hero's normals are proof that the dev team's imagination is kinda running dry on sword moves. It's getting to the point where we can literally describe a swordman's moveset by simply referencing the other swordsmens' moves. I remember when they unveiled Chrom and my friends and I were trying to analyze his moveset from his trailer video:

"OK, looks like he's got Ike's Up B, Marth's side B and Roy's jab...."

Of course now we know that Chrom is SUPPOSED to be Roy's echo, but again, we just see mixing and matching:

"Looks like Hero's got adult Link's dash attack, Ike's forward Smash, Marth's up smash (albeit with a tiny hitbox), etc, etc."

Now, in Lloyd's defense, a fast, dual wield style could lend itself to some pretty sexy combos, especially if some kind of Arts mechanic is mixed in to allow for aerial combos a la Bayonetta, but he would have to be noticeably original for people not to moan like crazy.

You know, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, so neither of those really stick out in my mind. I just love to poke fun at how over the top the swordplay is in Star Wars.

The most hilarious example of over-the-top Star Wars swordplay was in Revenge of the Sith when Anakin fights Obi Wan on the lava planet. They're both standing on top of a table and there's this moment when they're both flailing their swords around in the air for a few seconds before finally continuing their fight. I mean, it looks kinda cool the way they swirl the light sabers around themselves but realistically it's just laughably stupid to do in an actual fight to the death. One of them could have simply stabbed the other in the belly while they were showing off. LOL

 

[M@R!3]

LOL I've never quite heard them described like THAT before, but since you invoked the word "jedi", I have to ask:

We talking Ahsoka Tano-style dual wielding or pansy Anakin Attack-of-the-Clones-style dual wielding? Both were "holy crap awesome jedi wow" until the latter ended with an abrupt loss of said Jedi's arms...

Llyod isn't going to be using Form IV. lol

 

[Deleted member]

I'll happily back you on the Marth quartet they should have been condensed hero style a long time ago. But maybe it's just the Isaac supporter in me but I don't get why having a sword is a problem, especially when a significantly higher percentage fights with their fists and no one has ever complained about that. It's not like any of the non Marths fight even remotely the same. Just seems like a strange hill to die on is all.

I still want Isaac and given the arguments I have for why I don't want Lloyd that makes me sound like a huge hypocrite. Part of me says "Hero stole Isaac's unique charm" and the other part of me says "if he swapped djinn like Shulk swaps arts and that completely changed his specials he'd be the most unique swordsman since Link", and the latter always wins. There's no way of knowing that if Isaac (or Felix) got in that they'd get such a wild mechanic, but it's a way that I can think to differentiate him from every other "guy with a sword" and I just can't with Lloyd anymore.

 

[ZelDan]

I still want Isaac and given the arguments I have for why I don't want Lloyd that makes me sound like a huge hypocrite. Part of me says "Hero stole Isaac's unique charm" and the other part of me says "if he swapped djinn like Shulk swaps arts and that completely changed his specials he'd be the most unique swordsman since Link", and the latter always wins. There's no way of knowing that if Isaac (or Felix) got in that they'd get such a wild mechanic, but it's a way that I can think to differentiate him from every other "guy with a sword" and I just can't with Lloyd anymore.

Even if Isaac didn't have a djinn mechanic, neither hero nor Robin use earth/geomancy magic. Also Isaac still has the psynergy hands that could be a part of his moveset.

 

[Firox]

Even if Isaac didn't have a djinn mechanic, neither hero nor Robin use earth/geomancy magic. Also Isaac still has the psynergy hands that could be a part of his moveset.

Yeah, the whole pseudo-telekinesis thing definitely sets Isaac apart from the rest.

 

[Deleted member]

Even if Isaac didn't have a djinn mechanic, neither hero nor Robin use earth/geomancy magic. Also Isaac still has the psynergy hands that could be a part of his moveset.

virtually everyone in Golden Sun can use the energy hands. They're a cheap cop-out, even for an assist trophy. I guess the type of magic would make him unique to some people, but without really embodying how much you can "customize" how your characters work in Golden Sun, I feel like Isaac would see very little love because of that sword.

 

[ZelDan]

virtually everyone in Golden Sun can use the energy hands. They're a cheap cop-out, even for an assist trophy. I guess the type of magic would make him unique to some people, but without really embodying how much you can "customize" how your characters work in Golden Sun, I feel like Isaac would see very little love because of that sword.

I...don't see why everyone being able to use psynergy hands in Golden Sun matters? I thought we were comparing Isaac to other Smash characters, or comparing how a Golden Sun moveset could compare to other Smash movesets.

 

[Deleted member]

I...don't see why everyone being able to use psynergy hands in Golden Sun matters? I thought we were comparing Isaac to other Smash characters, or comparing how a Golden Sun moveset could compare to other Smash movesets.

Sorry, you're right about that, I just think about how it's not a very good representation of what he can do, but it's what a lot of people know, thanks to that damn snowglobe.

 

[JarBear]

Meh, I wouldn't mind Lloyd. I understand the whole "too many sword" argument or resentment or whatever, and I do concur that I would like to see a bit more versatility. But if there was a "Tales Of" series protagonist candidate for Smash, Lloyd makes sense to me. Not only did Tales of Symphonia appear on the GameCube and sold/reviewed very well, but it is an entry that is still highly regarded by the fans.

 

[Firox]

virtually everyone in Golden Sun can use the energy hands. They're a cheap cop-out, even for an assist trophy. I guess the type of magic would make him unique to some people, but without really embodying how much you can "customize" how your characters work in Golden Sun, I feel like Isaac would see very little love because of that sword.

To be honest, I think it would be incredibly close-minded for people to hate on Isaac JUST because he has a sword. As long as the moveset is fun and original THAT should be what really counts.

 

[ZelDan]

Sorry, you're right about that, I just think about how it's not a very good representation of what he can do, but it's what a lot of people know, thanks to that damn snowglobe.

I wouldn't want his moveset to be only the hands either. Venus psynergy should obviously be the biggest part of his moveset. That's what Isaac is known for, or should be known for.

 

[Rohanx17]

Sorry, you're right about that, I just think about how it's not a very good representation of what he can do, but it's what a lot of people know, thanks to that damn snowglobe.

I always supported the Djinn idea If it worked in practice but I think it's a young link mask swap situation where it isn't even on sakurai's radar and is probably just wishful thinking. To be fair though isaac probably has access to more moves with the hands than anything else so it makes sense for an assist. As a character it'll probably just be for grabs or a cheeky recovery idea. I don't think the sword will show up outside his normals though.

 

[Firox]

I wouldn't want his moveset to be only the hands either. Venus psynergy should obviously be the biggest part of his moveset. That's what Isaac is known for, or should be known for.

I think Ragnorok would be a cool attack for him to somehow incorporate too.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The fact that Terry's not even out and 5, 6, and 7 are already "preloaded" on the Smash sites structure is a good sign in my opinion and I think gives evidence to my speculation of 4-5 post pass. If it was just 2, I don't think they would have done both already and if was 3 I think they would have just done all 3. 6 and 7 by E3 2020 and 8 and 9 and possibly beyond afterwards makes sense to me.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

TWO more placeholder slots suddenly added? That is nuts! I wonder if we really will be seeing them at the end of the year... even if their releases will be more far out and into 2020...

Ahh, this time last year, we were destroyed by Geno not coming in the final Direct, but things may just come full circle. Expect the worst, hope for the best is what I'm sticking to.

I still can’t believe it’s been a year. To think that all of our hope and confidence was crushed in one blow when Geno wasn’t shown to be playable, and to have it even more crushed when Hero was shown.
And now? One year later, Geno’s in the best position he’s been before, arguably even better than during the Grinch Leak. No one knows what’s going to happen next, but it’s still surreal to me that Geno is actually possible again.

 

[ArchRanger]

Tbh I kind of agree. Sure, Lloyd does wield two swords, but the fantasy swordsman aesthetic is kind of oversaturated, and for twin swords you can use a sci-fi based swordswoman with twin swords to boot (Elma, Fiora) or even a straight up sci-fi JRPG robot female if we're going for Namco itself (KOS-MOS).

I feel like if we were to get a Tales character at this point it would probably be Velvet Crowe, who is neither male nor a sword wielder.

or Estelle, as in Estellise Sidos Heurassein from Tales of Vesperia, imagine the confusion if she got in over Yuri, AND we'd have a White Mage type character in Smash. that would be interesting.

This is why I would prefer Velvet, as unlikely as she would be compared to Lloyd’s and Yuri’s popularity. She’s still technically a sword weirder but she has three of them (one in each boot and the main one on her arm) along with the demon arm. Her kit would be drastically different to all the other sword weilders:

The fact that Terry's not even out and 5, 6, and 7 are already "preloaded" on the Smash sites structure is a good sign in my opinion and I think gives evidence to my speculation of 4-5 post pass. If it was just 2, I don't think they would have done both already and if was 3 I think they would have just done all 3. 6 and 7 by E3 2020 and 8 and 9 and possibly beyond afterwards makes sense to me.

Here’s hoping it’s another full fighter pass!

 

[Franco Geno]

Would it be likely that the 5th fighter would be shown next to Terry's gameplay presentation or not?

 

[Rohanx17]

Ive seen nothing so far to doubt the slots so I'm still expecting a full 10 unless sales taper off. Hopefully things will start to get more interesting once we're off the pass. That next game is probably light years away at this point.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here’s hoping it’s another full fighter pass!

Or a Direct. I've got a good feeling about it because Nintendo knows we look at this stuff so them barely trying to conceal this makes me think that there's more to the situation than what we currently see.

 

[JarBear]

Would it be likely that the 5th fighter would be shown next to Terry's gameplay presentation or not?

That is a good question. With the added slots on the website ... it does make you wonder the timing of things.

 

[Firox]

This is why I would prefer Velvet, as unlikely as she would be compared to Lloyd’s and Yuri’s popularity. She’s still technically a sword weirder but she has three of them (one in each boot and the main one on her arm) along with the demon arm. Her kit would be drastically different to all the other sword weilders:

Here’s hoping it’s another full fighter pass!

So....vastly original and hot AF? Never heard of her before but she's got my vote!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Would it be likely that the 5th fighter would be shown next to Terry's gameplay presentation or not?

Most likely outcomes are 5 is teased with Terry or Terry brings a Direct announcement. I think 6 and 7 being preloaded gives some hope for an actual Direct in December unless they decide to do this big ol' thing in November with Terry and #5-7 make it like a half hour showcase.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Anyone got a screenshot of the slots for Characters 6 and 7 in the website's coding/structure/whatever?

When I check it with Inspect Element, I only see the currently available fighters.

 

[OffBi]

Did you see Sabi's comments on Terry releasing this Friday?

 

[domriver]

Did you see Sabi's comments on Terry releasing this Friday?

You have my undivided attention. Please elaborate.

 

[OffBi]

You have my undivided attention. Please elaborate.

https://twitter.com/New_WabiSabi/status/1189951611721805825

 

[Rohanx17]

You have my undivided attention. Please elaborate.

All she said is she doesn't know when Terry is releasing beyond soon, which we already knew

 

[domriver]

https://twitter.com/New_WabiSabi/status/1189951611721805825

meh....... so its still quite possible though. Guess we shall wait and see.

 

[Grumbo]

I happen to be that guy who has 3 anime swordfighters in his top 5 so the whole “too many swordfighters” argument does nothing for me. And as someone pointed out earlier there are far more fist fighters than swordsmen.

 

[JarBear]

I think there is a general consensus the Terry release is sooner than later. I hope tomorrow, but I am assuming next week.

 

[Rohanx17]

I happen to be that guy who has 3 anime swordfighters in his top 5 so the whole “too many swordfighters” argument does nothing for me. And as someone pointed out earlier there are far more fist fighters than swordsmen.

I really think it was the influx of Marths and then the corrin reveal that went over about as well as a wet fart is what really rubbed people the wrong way and started the movement against them. If the main feature of the character isn't the sword in their hands like most of the fe reps I don't think people would complain that much. Granted joker and hero had complains but they were for entirely different reasons than their weapon.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

As long as they can make the character stand out enough then there really shouldn't be a problem with characters that use a sword. The Smash fandom blows the issue way out of proportion

 

[Rohanx17]

If I was in charge of smash I would really like to take my hero idea for Marth and crank it up all the way, that way Roy Lucina and Chrom are all still playable characters fir their fans without demanding additional resouces while letting all the other mc' s have a shot as well. Personally I would round out the other four with Alm, Seliph, Leif, and Erika.

 

[RingJ5]

When it comes to Lloyd, I don’t mind him as a character and think that his dual-sword thing could be neat, but I’d consider him a relatively underwhelming way to end off the pass, making it so the majority of characters in it are JRPG blade-wielders. Post-pass, though, he makes a lot of sense.

...However, when it comes to this initial reveal of #6 and #7? I’m flat-out predicting a double-reveal of Waluigi and Geno. Knocking two of the largest Mario-series requests out of the park at the same time, maybe even retroactively making a triple-pack bundle with Piranha Plant.

It would satisfy the largest request during Ultimate’s speculation cycle and one of the longest-standing requests in Smash history, and would also shatter AT and Spirit fanrules.

 

[JarBear]

As for sword stuff, I don't have a problem with it. I understand that it stems from FE reps that all use swords, which most of them are "basic" sword user. The more unique ones are Robin and Corrin since they play very different from Marth, Ike, Roy, Chrom and Lucina. (I would also like to state even with the "hate/dislike/iritation" regarding this topic for some ... I like FE and their fighters in Smash. I like playing Roy ...)

Does the anti-sword riderect directed for all sword fighters in Smash or just the FE series? Granted, I would personally like if any new FE fighters come in use something different, like an Ax or something for variety's sake.

For sure though, I don't care if any other sword wielder from different series come in. The current non-fire emblem sword users are all different (The exception is Young Link and Toon Link in which they use a similar kit to Link's, but obviously still have their own style). From Link's projectiles to Hero's RNG, they feel and play different. The same can happen with any future sword users. Isaac has his Djinns and "helping hand" and Lloyd could have a gimmick that can have a "style change" (This stemming from the T and S system in the game) where is specials change ... kinda like a "simpler" pokemon trainer.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

On the stance of swordfighters, I won't complain M̶a̶i̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶m̶a̶s̶h̶ ̶B̶r̶o̶s̶,̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶n̶n̶a̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶d̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶w̶o̶r̶d̶s̶ because I feel like a lot of them are unique to one another. The only ones I can really see the complaining being reasonable is Young Link & Toon Link, followed by Lucina, Chrom, and arguably Ike. Honestly, these ones are practically duplicates of other characters, which is the only reason I'm not too particular of them but I do think they serve their purposes to the roster, so it really doesn't matter to me. Bring Lloyd and Isaac this way!