Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[StarLight42]

PapaGeno's discord users hate Geno. To the point where if you say he's got a chance in their character discussion channel a horde of angry people frothing at the mouth will tell you spirits deconfirm and you need to give up.

I remember this when I was there a few months ago. Made little to no sense to me considering the server owner is the biggest Geno fanboy ever.

Really makes me wonder what kind of revisionism we’ll see if the blue puppet actually gets in.

I expect a lot of the “Geno will never be in Smash!11 he’s irrelevant!! Spirits deconfirm!!!1” to change to “OMG Geno was my most wanted!!! He’s deserving and iconic!” as this crowd of people searches for the next most fan requested character to form a hate base around.

Just like what happened with Banjo.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I remember this when I was there a few months ago. Made little to no sense to me considering the server owner is the biggest Geno fanboy ever.

Really makes me wonder what kind of revisionism we’ll see if the blue puppet actually gets in.

I expect a lot of the “Geno will never be in Smash!11 he’s irrelevant!! Spirits deconfirm!!!1” to change to “OMG Geno was my most wanted!!! He’s deserving and iconic!” as this crowd of people searches for the next most fan requested character to form a hate base around.

Just like what happened with Banjo.

It's like I always say: A character is never going to happen right up until they were always going to happen.

 

[Ovaltine]

I remember this when I was there a few months ago. Made little to no sense to me considering the server owner is the biggest Geno fanboy ever.

Really makes me wonder what kind of revisionism we’ll see if the blue puppet actually gets in.

I expect a lot of the “Geno will never be in Smash!11 he’s irrelevant!! Spirits deconfirm!!!1” to change to “OMG Geno was my most wanted!!! He’s deserving and iconic!” as this crowd of people searches for the next most fan requested character to form a hate base around.

Just like what happened with Banjo.

As both a Banjo-Kazooie fan and a Geno fan, this pissed me off more than anything I can even think of.

The amount of revisionism I've been seeing since B-K got in is insane. These same people went from calling Banjo and Kazooie irrelevant, failed platforming mascots that never meant anything for the N64 era to, "Oh, but they were the ones who paved the way for platformers! They were the FACES of the N64!"

I guarantee that it will happen if Geno gets in, to which I say... screw off lol. Y'all gave me and other B-K fans so much crap before they got in, then turned around and kissed the ground they walked on. Now you're gonna do that for Geno? As Leigh Loveday himself once said, "Sod off, you stupid ****."

 

[Firox]

I remember this when I was there a few months ago. Made little to no sense to me considering the server owner is the biggest Geno fanboy ever.

Really makes me wonder what kind of revisionism we’ll see if the blue puppet actually gets in.

I expect a lot of the “Geno will never be in Smash!11 he’s irrelevant!! Spirits deconfirm!!!1” to change to “OMG Geno was my most wanted!!! He’s deserving and iconic!” as this crowd of people searches for the next most fan requested character to form a hate base around.

Just like what happened with Banjo.

People are so funny. They generate tons of irrational hatred towards any given thing, and usually the more something is praised or wanted, the more others try to rip it down. Often times they have zero logical reasons for doing so. They just hate because they think it makes them edgy, or in many cases, because a large percentage of humanity is just flat out sadistic. In the case of Smash DLC, it's perfectly fine to not want a certain character, but to actively campaign AGAINST a character is just jacked up. Not sure how people find a modicum of self-importance by doing so.

 

[Ovaltine]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Please, I can't even begin to stress how important this is

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Please, I can't even begin to stress how important this is

I don't get it? I mean the model is pretty cute..

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't get it? I mean the model is pretty cute..

There is nothing to get apart from how majestic he looks.

 

[Deleted member]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Please, I can't even begin to stress how important this is

This confirms Geno in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

These are fair points, but I didn't construct a complete list. There's one character who fits the venn diagram with Geno by those three common detractions: Duck Hunt.

[ X ] 20 Years old by the time of his inclusion
[ X ] Appeared in exactly one game
[ X ] not even the main character (that would be you, guy with the gun)

If we want to talk about cumulative hindrances, I could add onto all of the things that potentially stopped Duck Hunt from getting into the game by common arguments against other characters. He doesn't have a canon name, he has no personality, he's literally an animal, he has no moveset... I'm sure if I really thought about it, I could come up with others.

I'm sure there are people who would try to say the big scary "third party" is a bigger hindrance than all of those, but Banjo is in this game.

Duck Hunt also sold 28 million copies and is associated with the NES second to only Mario himself, and he's first party so he doesn't have any issues in getting in either. Not really a great comparison. If Geno was first party, we would have gotten him already, but that third party/first party distinction matters a hell of a lot more than you're giving it credit for (and you're also not giving Duck Hunt much credit despite being a game that absolutely defined an era).

 

[MisterMike]

As both a Banjo-Kazooie fan and a Geno fan, this pissed me off more than anything I can even think of.

The amount of revisionism I've been seeing since B-K got in is insane. These same people went from calling Banjo and Kazooie irrelevant, failed platforming mascots that never meant anything for the N64 era to, "Oh, but they were the ones who paved the way for platformers! They were the FACES of the N64!"

I guarantee that it will happen if Geno gets in, to which I say... screw off lol. Y'all gave me and other B-K fans so much crap before they got in, then turned around and kissed the ground they walked on. Now you're gonna do that for Geno? As Leigh Loveday himself once said, "Sod off, you stupid ****."

All the more reason to snapshot all of their **** talking, really. If this really is a Banjo & Kazooie situation, it'll pay to have the quotes ready for the inevitable montage videos.

 

[Deleted member]

Duck Hunt also sold 28 million copies and is associated with the NES second to only Mario himself, and he's first party so he doesn't have any issues in getting in either. Not really a great comparison.

I've read that Japan didn't much care for Duck Hunt, and it sold 28 million copies the same way Super Mario Bros set its record - it was bundled with the NES and those sales count for some reason. For the time period, Mario RPG sold incredibly, and it's a shame that it was never officially bundled with the SNES hardware so that it too could take advantage of inflated numbers.

Honestly, if Sakurai considered Duck Hunt to be so important and I'm failing to give the game credit for all of its many achievements, I think he would have thrown the dog in long before he bothered to put Ice Climbers in. As it stands, Duck Hunt feels like an afterthought, scraping the bottom of the barrel for moveset viable characters from Nintendo's history, and even then, he's as much a "character" as Mr. Game and Watch, Wii Fit, and ROB - a face of a peripheral rather than a real character. Nothing wrong with that, though.

If Geno was first party, we would have gotten him already

Dang, you're right. Guess that's why Waluigi is still an assist trophy.

 

[Opossum]

People are so funny. They generate tons of irrational hatred towards any given thing, and usually the more something is praised or wanted, the more others try to rip it down. Often times they have zero logical reasons for doing so. They just hate because they think it makes them edgy, or in many cases, because a large percentage of humanity is just flat out sadistic. In the case of Smash DLC, it's perfectly fine to not want a certain character, but to actively campaign AGAINST a character is just jacked up. Not sure how people find a modicum of self-importance by doing so.

It's an issue with the Smash community as a whole, which is an even bigger problem. People will be absolutely toxic about any character that doesn't fit into their (usually very over-specific) definition of what is a "good addition." The dichotomy often ends up as "a character I personally want vs literal garbage additions" which is, as noted, incredibly toxic.

And as someone who loves Fire Emblem, the Smash community can be downright insufferable lmao.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I've read that Japan didn't much care for Duck Hunt, and it sold 28 million copies the same way Super Mario Bros set its record - it was bundled with the NES and those sales count for some reason. For the time period, Mario RPG sold incredibly, and it's a shame that it was never officially bundled with the SNES hardware so that it too could take advantage of inflated numbers.

Honestly, if Sakurai considered Duck Hunt to be so important and I'm failing to give the game credit for all of its many achievements, I think he would have thrown the dog in long before he bothered to put Ice Climbers in. As it stands, Duck Hunt feels like an afterthought, scraping the bottom of the barrel for moveset viable characters from Nintendo's history, and even then, he's as much a "character" as Mr. Game and Watch, Wii Fit, and ROB - a face of a peripheral rather than a real character. Nothing wrong with that, though.

Dang, you're right. Guess that's why Waluigi is still an assist trophy.

Doesn't matter if it was bundled in with the NES, those sales don't count for less in terms of exposure to the game and it was very much the premiere title to show off the NES Zapper. It's fine that Japan didn't care for Duck Hunt, but it's a cultural touchstone for American culture that any person who played a NES in the 1980s will undoubtedly recognize. Super Mario RPG sold a decent 2 million in comparison at the end of the SNES' life, 4 months before the N64 and Super Mario 64 took the world by storm. This is comparing apples to oranges at best. Sakurai also decided to put Ice Climbers in before Wario, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, and a ton of other fighters, so when the characters comes in to the series doesn't actually say much about their "importance" either.

Well, Sakurai has literally said he wanted to include Geno in Brawl, which is a show of interest Waluigi wishes he could have. We can't know it for certain, but there's an incredibly good chance Geno would have already been included if he was first party (and I mean, being a third party clearly hurts him no matter how you slice it, Cloud and Hero were the priorities before him. If he was first party he wouldn't be fighting as a Square Enix character).

 

[Nemo_Namikaze]

Why're we even using Genos 3rd party status as a talking point in the first place? Have you not been paying attention to the dlc since smash 4?

Also hi briefly popping out of lurking, it's been slow news since Banjo dropped.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

also popped out of the darkness, what disgussion is cooking up

 

[Firox]

It's an issue with the Smash community as a whole, which is an even bigger problem. People will be absolutely toxic about any character that doesn't fit into their (usually very over-specific) definition of what is a "good addition." The dichotomy often ends up as "a character I personally want vs literal garbage additions" which is, as noted, incredibly toxic.

And as someone who loves Fire Emblem, the Smash community can be downright insufferable lmao.

LOL Yeah, if you're a fan of Fire Emblem, I can TOTALLY understand what you mean. Of all the franchises getting stone-walled for DLC, I think FE is hands down the most hated. Though to be fair, I can also understand why given the fact that Corrin was a textbook shill and their Smash characters have the least amount of variance in moveset. Granted, I think it would be cool to get some NON-swordies like Micaiah (Full mage), Sothe (Theif/Assassin) or anyone that uses spears or axes but the community is pretty close-minded because of what we've gotten so far.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Why're we even using Genos 3rd party status as a talking point in the first place? Have you not been paying attention to the dlc since smash 4?

Also hi briefly popping out of lurking, it's been slow news since Banjo dropped.

also popped out of the darkness, what disgussion is cooking up

We're all just waiting for the November direct to see if/when/how our boy will make it into the game.

Bare minimum, his costume might return and hopefully get a Sans-esque update.

More likely he'll either make DLC slot #5 or end up being one of the additional DLC characters next year.

Everyone's just ****ing about and killing time until then.

 

[Deleted member]

LOL Yeah, if you're a fan of Fire Emblem, I can TOTALLY understand what you mean. Of all the franchises getting stone-walled for DLC, I think FE is hands down the most hated. Though to be fair, I can also understand why given the fact that Corrin was a textbook shill and their Smash characters have the least amount of variance in moveset. Granted, I think it would be cool to get some NON-swordies like Micaiah (Full mage), Sothe (Theif/Assassin) or anyone that uses spears or axes but the community is pretty close-minded because of what we've gotten so far.

I used to want Ephraim because of how unique it would be to have a spear user. I was right along with the people who wanted Hector. I think Robin's a nice break of form as far as Fire Emblem characters, even if the ridiculous gimmick they gave him makes him completely garbage.

But seriously, they've worn out the welcome of Fire Emblem in Smash. At this point, it isn't even that I'm personally afraid they'd just add yet another Marth clone, it's that they've squandered the space that should be allotted for the franchise on Marth clones already and I just don't want to see any more of them. The franchise isn't so popular that it needs to be competing with Mario or Pokemon for most playable representation.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

We're all just waiting for the November direct to see if/when/how our boy will make it into the game.

Bare minimum, his costume might return and hopefully get a Sans-esque update.

More likely he'll either make DLC slot #5 or end up being one of the additional DLC characters next year.

Everyone's just ****ing about and killing time until then.

ah gotcha fam, ooo idea, lets disguss what kind of trailer he'd have!!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Why're we even using Genos 3rd party status as a talking point in the first place? Have you not been paying attention to the dlc since smash 4?

Also hi briefly popping out of lurking, it's been slow news since Banjo dropped.

Because as a more niche character option, being a third party hurts Geno's chances. I mean, that should be obvious when Sakurai said he wanted to include him in Brawl, and since we've gotten Cloud and Hero from Square Enix. The extent to which it hurts him is debatable, and we'll see what the next wave of DLC holds for his chances though.

 

[StarLight42]

All the more reason to snapshot all of their **** talking, really. If this really is a Banjo & Kazooie situation, it'll pay to have the quotes ready for the inevitable montage videos.

Lmao, in fact I actually have quite a few snapshots saved already. Some from GameFAQS, Twitter, Discord, etc.

The typical “Geno will never be in, puppet man bad” kind of posts.

If he makes it in as a playable fighter i’m gonna need someone to help me make a collage like that priceless Banjo one.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

Lmao, in fact I actually have quite a few snapshots saved already. Some from GameFAQS, Twitter, Discord, etc.

The typical “Geno will never be in, puppet man bad” kind of posts.

If he makes it in as a playable fighter i’m gonna need someone to help me make a collage like that priceless Banjo one.

but if he doe get in, with this blog die? or will it be a geno appreciation blog

 

[StarLight42]

but if he doe get in, with this blog die? or will it be a geno appreciation blog

I think this thread just turns into the Geno Social if he makes it in. Idk

 

[Firox]

I used to want Ephraim because of how unique it would be to have a spear user. I was right along with the people who wanted Hector. I think Robin's a nice break of form as far as Fire Emblem characters, even if the ridiculous gimmick they gave him makes him completely garbage.

But seriously, they've worn out the welcome of Fire Emblem in Smash. At this point, it isn't even that I'm personally afraid they'd just add yet another Marth clone, it's that they've squandered the space that should be allotted for the franchise on Marth clones already and I just don't want to see any more of them. The franchise isn't so popular that it needs to be competing with Mario or Pokemon for most playable representation.

Well, there's that, and the fact that Marth and his clones ironically dominate the higher tiers of play, so despite the lack or originality, we see those four more often than any other FE characters.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

I think this thread just turns into the Geno Social if he makes it in. Idk

we shall have a bigg a** party when he gets in owo

 

[Nemo_Namikaze]

Fair enough, but I feel like all the big boys are out of the way. Maybe except Sora but I wouldn't worry too much about him.

Also yeah trust me I know we're just in a massive waiting period. I've been watching haha.

That said I honestly doubt we'll be seeing a modified mii costume, I really feel like its just a fear conjured up by us with little grounding. I think it's all or nothing and though he's potentially #5 I wouldn't count too hard on it.

Edit: I meant to reply to a post but whatever I guess, hard enough not knowing how to work the forum. But I'm unfortunetly also on mobile.

 

[Ovaltine]

I mean, if Geno manages to make it in, I'm sure the social is gonna be party central for a while like it was for B-K's. Then, it'd likely turn into meta discussion and pre-inclusion talk, then going into labbing and tech once he's out. I know for sure that I will be doing a LOT of stuff to celebrate if Geno does get in, so here's hoping!

 

[Deleted member]

Well, there's that, and the fact that Marth and his clones ironically dominate the higher tiers of play, so despite the lack or originality, we see those four more often than any other FE characters.

Well, imagine that, a playstyle that works well and has pretty much no drawbacks is commonly used in competitive play, and since it's been almost directly ported to 4 characters, people play three of them a ton!

It's sad that the only person who doesn't benefit from the solid mechanics given to Marth is... Marth.

 

[Firox]

I mean, if Geno manages to make it in, I'm sure the social is gonna be party central for a while like it was for B-K's. Then, it'd likely turn into meta discussion and pre-inclusion talk, then going into labbing and tech once he's out. I know for sure that I will be doing a LOT of stuff to celebrate if Geno does get in, so here's hoping!

I'll be among the first to start labbing BnB combos and figuring out the frame data. I'm gonna dissect that boy inside and out.

It's sad that the only person who doesn't benefit from the solid mechanics given to Marth is... Marth.

I know, right? THE IRONY!

 

[Sour Supreme]

Duck Hunt also sold 28 million copies and is associated with the NES second to only Mario himself, and he's first party so he doesn't have any issues in getting in either. Not really a great comparison. If Geno was first party, we would have gotten him already, but that third party/first party distinction matters a hell of a lot more than you're giving it credit for (and you're also not giving Duck Hunt much credit despite being a game that absolutely defined an era).

Geno's third party status is precisely why he seems so likely now. Don't know how people are missing that, lol. We have four DLC characters so far, all owned by other developers. If anything, Geno's ties to a first party franchise could be what's hurting him.

Well, imagine that, a playstyle that works well and has pretty much no drawbacks is commonly used in competitive play, and since it's been almost directly ported to 4 characters, people play three of them a ton!

It's sad that the only person who doesn't benefit from the solid mechanics given to Marth is... Marth.

Poor Marth man. His days are gone.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

hey guys, think of genos amiibo,, pretty sweet right

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Geno's third party status is precisely why he seems so likely now. Don't know how people are missing that, lol. We have four DLC characters so far, all owned by other developers. If anything, Geno's ties to a first party franchise could be what's hurting him.

I don't think that has anything to do with how likely Geno is that they're focused on third parties. It's because his two biggest sources of competition are out of the way and there's more DLC and he works well as one of the frontrunners of the "fan requested" fighters. Whether he's first party or third party doesn't change those inherent principles, or the fact that his Mii costume is still not in Ultimate. Them deciding on third party DLC primarily doesn't actually really benefit Geno all that much outside of showing that they're willing to give Sakurai a decent budget to develop fighters. Especially when the focus on new third party worlds thus far is sort of a grey area for Geno that likely leans more heavily on hindrance than help.

 

[NerfOrNothiing]

hey guys, think of genos amiibo,, pretty sweet right

Just another reason why I can't wait for the day when he's in >_< speaking of which.. I wonder what a Geno amiibo would really look like! What would the pose be? I'd hope something like the crossed-arm sprite.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

Just another reason why I can't wait for the day when he's in >_< speaking of which.. I wonder what a Geno amiibo would really look like! What would the pose be? I'd hope something like the crossed-arm sprite.

what if they pull a game and watch kind of thing with him, like hes a doll. so what if you could move his head and arms!

 

[Vector Victor]

I used to want Ephraim because of how unique it would be to have a spear user. I was right along with the people who wanted Hector. I think Robin's a nice break of form as far as Fire Emblem characters, even if the ridiculous gimmick they gave him makes him completely garbage.

But seriously, they've worn out the welcome of Fire Emblem in Smash. At this point, it isn't even that I'm personally afraid they'd just add yet another Marth clone, it's that they've squandered the space that should be allotted for the franchise on Marth clones already and I just don't want to see any more of them. The franchise isn't so popular that it needs to be competing with Mario or Pokemon for most playable representation.

I get annoyed with how Zelda is claimed to be perfectly represented and one-offs shouldn't be allowed, and at the same time, FE one-offs should be playable since the series is a rotating cast and needs to be represented. Or the counter argument to using other Zelda characters is being told to just play Hyrule Warriors if people want them. It comes off as hypocritical. Ironically, BOTH series have issues eith how they are repped (Marth sequels vs not using Zelda item arsenal).

For thst matter, just how big IS Fire Emblem saleswise? Sales shouldn't be a main support/hindrance for a character to be added, but at some point it does raise eyebrows if there is a huge disconnect between content amount and sales.

 

[Midget Master]

Fire Emblem is very large and growing. As I understand it it's basically solidified itself as the number four behind Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

Citation needed, maybe. But it's absolutely taken off in the west since Awakening and isn't slowing down.

Totally agree on the idea of Zelda one-offs deserving to be in. I don't see any reason we can't still have Midna and idk Fi or something around to this day. Even disregarding those, Tingle and Impa could be legitimate recurring characters added to Smash.

And Corrin was somewhat unique at least, but man would I have rather had Azura for a Fates character. If we had to have a Fates character. Love Fire Emblem, but not a big fan of those games lol

 

[LDGno97]

I remember this when I was there a few months ago. Made little to no sense to me considering the server owner is the biggest Geno fanboy ever.

Really makes me wonder what kind of revisionism we’ll see if the blue puppet actually gets in.

I expect a lot of the “Geno will never be in Smash!11 he’s irrelevant!! Spirits deconfirm!!!1” to change to “OMG Geno was my most wanted!!! He’s deserving and iconic!” as this crowd of people searches for the next most fan requested character to form a hate base around.

Just like what happened with Banjo.

Remember:

WE are the real Geno fans, those who wanted the puppet since Melee, those who really know the character, played his game, ask for him in the polls, and made him her favourite pick over all the others...those who never stopped dreaming. I'm not saying that we're the only one, but the people of this board looks like knows the character itself.
There will be people who will want to come up to the Geno-train, and they will be the same people who shout: "Spirited", "Literal Who", "Party-Member" "Only one game guy", "Wasted slot".
Beware of the Geno's bandwagoners, if we get our boy in.

 

[Firox]

Fire Emblem is very large and growing. As I understand it it's basically solidified itself as the number four behind Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

Citation needed, maybe. But it's absolutely taken off in the west since Awakening and isn't slowing down.

Totally agree on the idea of Zelda one-offs deserving to be in. I don't see any reason we can't still have Midna and idk Fi or something around to this day. Even disregarding those, Tingle and Impa could be legitimate recurring characters added to Smash.

And Corrin was somewhat unique at least, but man would I have rather had Azura for a Fates character. If we had to have a Fates character. Love Fire Emblem, but not a big fan of those games lol

To give your post some context, Fire Emblem seems to be #15 in Nintendo's top 25 best selling franchises as of 2017:

1. Super Mario (627.51 million)
2. Pokémon (301.5 million)
3. Wii Series (203.15 million)
4. The Legend of Zelda (105.62 million)
5. Donkey Kong (75.6 million)[8]
6. Super Smash Bros (53 million)[9]
7. Game & Watch (43.4 million)[10]
8. Kirby (38 million)[9]
9. Brain Age (34 million)[11]
10. Animal Crossing (33.6 million)[12][13][14]
11. Nintendogs (28.25 million)[15][16]
12. Yoshi (24.87 million)[17]
13. Wario (22 million)
14. Metroid (17.44 million)
15. Fire Emblem (12.4 million)*
16. Splatoon (12.4 million)[18]
17. Star Fox (12 million)
18. Tomodachi (10.06 million)[19][20]
19. Big Brain Academy (10 million)
20. Luigi (10 million)
21. F-Zero (5 million)
22. Pikmin (5 million)
23. Excite (5 million)
24. Nintendo Land (5 million)
25. Style Savvy (5 million)

According to this site: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best_selling_Nintendo_games

Soooooo surprisingly not as big as I thought it was to be honest, though to be fair, it's bigger than Splatoon and Star Fox. Also, I'm astonished by the fact that the DK series has sold more games historically than Smash Bros thus far. Didn't see that coming.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Fire Emblem is very large and growing. As I understand it it's basically solidified itself as the number four behind Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

Citation needed, maybe. But it's absolutely taken off in the west since Awakening and isn't slowing down.

Totally agree on the idea of Zelda one-offs deserving to be in. I don't see any reason we can't still have Midna and idk Fi or something around to this day. Even disregarding those, Tingle and Impa could be legitimate recurring characters added to Smash.

And Corrin was somewhat unique at least, but man would I have rather had Azura for a Fates character. If we had to have a Fates character. Love Fire Emblem, but not a big fan of those games lol

I could see Midna getting in, simply because Twilight Princess is absent from the roster despite having been Smash Brothers' primary Zelda source for two installments.

As I've said, I think Tingle has leverage because of his solo series that saw decent success in the East.

 

[xpnc]

Fire Emblem is very large and growing. As I understand it it's basically solidified itself as the number four behind Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

Kirby Star Allies sold more than every Fire Emblem game I'm pretty sure