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You'd think they'd focus on the characters that are actually popular in FE:H then instead of putting in the lords no one cares about
You know how hard it is to get concrete sales figures on a video game... But this list seems reasonable:
Yea, when I was looking up sales I saw this, but I was iffy as it was on a wiki (but it looks like its citated) and that it was 2017 so it doesn't have 3 Houses, which sold great.
So since the number got tossed out earlier, at 2 million-ish, Super Mario RPG by itself sold half as much as F-Zero and lower ranked franchises.
No Earthbound? ah man why do they have to pick out characters from successes and not smaller ones that lacks left overs.
What do you mean. All the characters in Smash are among the most popular lords in the entire series and also are incredibly popular in Fire Emblem Heroes. The only one that isn't is Corrin and they got in under unique circumstances.
I'll throw out an unpopular opinion here:
No they really aren't. FE:H has done a popularity poll annually for the last 3 years to get new unit variants and the only 3 Smash characters that have actually topped the popularity polls (as in, gotten new variants) are Ike, Roy, and Lucina. They had to change the entire voting methodology to get Marth anywhere near the top by combining all of his appearances into one character for voting (something Ike didn't get and still managed to top the charts), and he still couldn't even break top 6. The other characters in Smash have a bunch of alternate variants to be clear, but it's because IS is shilling them, and not as a result of their polling popularity. This is something that FE:H players don't like.
I mean, they buy Fire Emblem and their money is just as good as that of "Fire Emblem fans." Nintendo won't make a distinction, and Three Houses is on pace to outsale both Awakening and Fates despite actually being much more in line with classic Fire Emblem titles outside of the monastery related stuff. Again, I don't think they put FE in Smash at any point to really advertise it outside of Corrin, and the rest was largely a combination of just continuing to add a new FE character and fan demand. Nintendo isn't going to complain when one of their more successful modern IPs with a 30 year history gets another fighter for this reason or that.
Poll in 2017 where Chrom is literally the 4th most popular male character in Heroes: https://www.technobuffalo.com/fire-emblem-heroes-popularity-poll-results-are-in. Also see that male Robin is 8th most popular male character, female Robin is the 11th most popular female character, and female Corrin is the 5th most popular female character. Marth got in because he was the original FE character and the face of the franchise in the Melee days, so I don't see why his presence matters at all.
I just want to nitpick and say that Roy was also an admitted shill pick. At least they didn't waste development time on him and took him out in the next game despite the fact people actually started to sort of like him.
I guess Roy originally was, but the only reason we got him back in Smash 4 was because people wanted him back more than basically any newcomer. He was also kind of straightforward semi-clone with minimal differences that once again shows Fire Emblem as the series that was just in the right place at the right time.
I wanna start by saying I love ya, bro, and I'm usually on the same page as you, but you're argument here is just flat out wrong. Period. Case in point, let me give you a run-down of my Fire Emblem history:
So maybe I can play the prophet again with Geno?
Awakening's "baby mode" and
in Smash 4 are how I got into the series as a whole, so I don't see your logic.
Fingers crossed. We won't know who the character is just yet.
......Is it weird if this is the first time I'm seeing this SNES model?
I dunno if we can say that. At the very least, I'd put Kirby above it for how iconic and consistently well-selling of a series it is. Come to think of it, I'd probably put Donkey Kong around there too for similar reasons. (Everyone knows what a Donkey Kong is, whereas non-gamers would struggle to recognize a Fire Emblem.) Metroid's debatably there due to overall recognizability, but that series kind of tanks in Japan, so I'll be conservative and put it below modern day FE. So at best, that'd put Fire Emblem at around #6 in terms of "biggest" Nintendo franchises. Not worthy of competing with Mario and Pokemon for top marks in terms of Smash rep if you ask me.
If they're doing a second Fighter's Pass, I don't think Geno is the lead off. He's kind of a bad character to do so with since he doesn't tell you a thing about the upcoming characters (something Joker at least generally managed). Now if it's just individual DLC, I'll say it's more likely for him to be the first non Fighter's Pass character.
Does a character have to show off a pattern to be a lead off? Did Sakurai ever explain this was the reason he made Joker the first DLC character (genuinly asking here)? What if we get a pass that mixes first party characters with third party characters, would there be a character that could actually tell you what the pass is both first and third party?
No they don't, but it is just really sound marketing sense. I also think if we're getting a pass, it's going to be all third parties again, but that's me. But there's no great option for a first and third party pass I'm willing to admit. I just expect first parties to be more of their own thing as opposed to in future Fighter's Passes since I would think Fighter's Pass would be the best way to include third parties, and I expect them to be the main DLC going forward.
I just don't want to gate keep people for changing their mind. Them jumping on our side means we won.
I was thinking about that. If you DM me your country, I can look into making an adjustment so it has representation.I know I am late to do it but I finally did add myself to the wishes section in operation starfall site I was surprised to be the only one who typed ♡♪!? instead of Geno and also surprised that there is a “Middle East” choice in countries I guess I am the only one
Yeah I'm thinking that the additional DLC may be full of individual characters rather than another fighters pass. Sakurai's words seem to indicate that he's focusing more on characters and If it was fighters pass, they probably would have shown it was as there is no reason not to leave it that vague if it was.
It's the most common excuse because it's the actual reason, giving literally any other answer would be the excuse.
Well it is in the top 50 best selling NES games, and it sold 1.5 million copies, but I agree Sakurai could've added any number of other NES characters instead. Like I said, he tried to add (at least) three others before settling on ICs. But it just goes to show he was looking for representation of a time period instead of a specific character.
You do realize that the majority of the Kid Icarus characters were added right after Uprising, right? It's not like he added them in Ultimate. They weren't irrelevant then. Pit is a different story, the path Sakurai carves out for retros won't be of use for Geno. Yes Geno is a retro character by our standards, but by Sakurai's, the cutoff seems to be the 80s.
I would agree with that, but clearly Sakurai doesn't. Or I would at least posit that "retro", at this point, is probably up to... even Gamecube days, so he could stand to widen the parameters. But what we think doesn't really matter, because we don't pick the characters.
Your list still isn't complete, because while you only listed three hindrances, there is the additional one I mentioned: being third-party. Were Geno first-party, he probably would've been included back in Brawl. In that diagram, and not a partial one, none of the current cast share the centre.
Those aren't real hindrances, pitch 'em. Those examples are like saying Geno can't get in because his real name is unpronounceable.
You've again gone back to evaluating things based on a single hindrance I see. Banjo also was greatly hindered by being third-party, were he not he would've been included long ago as well, but between Banjo and Geno, one actually has successful eponymous series they lead; it's a whole different level in terms of recognition. In fact, none of the three aforementioned impediments are applicable to Banjo.
Sorry, gotta have at least one or two jams in there!
Really? How do you think people would feel if they put the 4th and 8th most popular Kirby or Star Fox characters in the game instead of the ones people actually like? Imagine swapping out Meta Knight for Magolor and Falco for Pigma or something
I feel like Nintendo will want to push at least one more pass since the first is clearly selling incredibly well. I know nothing of data mining but from what I understand there's a likelihood these "slots" could be added in via patch.I personally think they're doing individual characters and not another pass. Looking at those WoL slots and allocated slots for stages, the FP covers the placeholders for stages entirely, leaving the WoL character slots open-ended. On top of Sakurai not being a fan of season passes, I could see Nintendo opting for individual DLC packs, if not a smaller 'pass' that doesn't include stages, maybe not even spirits. It'd be a fair compromise. Nintendo gets a season pass like they wanted, but Sakurai also gets his personal preference of individual character packs that don't need stages. All-in-all, I see this being a benefit for Geno, as we honestly have PLENTY of Mario stages. He really doesn't NEED one.
Now, that music, though...
Oh yeah, of course, it's a possibility I wouldn't write off at all. I dunno, though. I feel we're at least getting some form of individual DLC. I'd bet money on it, even.
So you're saying that were Geno a first-party, he still wouldn't be included on the roster?
It does seem strange for the Plant to be sitting in his own Individual DLC category. I still think maybe each Fighter Pass will be preceded by a First Party fighter sold individually.
Not at all. I agree that his Third Party status is what kept him out of the Roster for a long time. But Ultimate has truly changed the game as far as ownership boundaries go.
because they have to go through a company that isn't Nintendo, so if that company is rather stingy and doesn't want that character in Smash, then they're not getting in.
A hindrance isn't something that can't be overcome, it's something that makes achievement more difficult. I agree him being third-party, and all those other hindrances can be overcome, but were they not present, especially the third-party one, he'd have been in long ago.
Right, I understand where you're coming from. I just feel like that obstacle in particular has transformed into something that would help his chances.
We do have the assurance that Square is far more negotionable than they once were, though. Considering that they were willing to work with Sakurai for both Cloud and Hero.
Insofar as it's kept him eligible right now for a pass that will (presumably) be all third-parties, sure. And I'm not even saying likely, I'm just saying eligible. But you have to weigh that against the fact that prior to the moment we find ourselves in, there have been a litany of opportunities that probably would've already seen him included had he been first-party. Starting, I'd guess, with Brawl.
I think there's a solid chance that we get another tab for further DLC stages. I feel like there's no way that Sakurai goes through the next batch of DLC and doesn't add any new universes (They would necessitate stages) and goes like a year of characters without any new stages or additional content beyond like music and maybe Spirits.I personally think they're doing individual characters and not another pass. Looking at those WoL slots and allocated slots for stages, the FP covers the placeholders for stages entirely, leaving the WoL character slots open-ended. On top of Sakurai not being a fan of season passes, I could see Nintendo opting for individual DLC packs, if not a smaller 'pass' that doesn't include stages, maybe not even spirits. It'd be a fair compromise. Nintendo gets a season pass like they wanted, but Sakurai also gets his personal preference of individual character packs that don't need stages. All-in-all, I see this being a benefit for Geno, as we honestly have PLENTY of Mario stages. He really doesn't NEED one.
Now, that music, though...
I mean, it's all a moot point since all the Fire Emblem additions sans Chrom were added prior to Heroes even releasing anyway. I was just showing that these characters weren't exactly not popular as well. They were already here prior to this being a worry, and Chrom specifically got in because he got passed over in the trailer of Robin/Lucina and somehow ignited a fan base to push for his inclusion... not to mention he already had assets in the game through Robin's Final Smash. Heroes has had no tangible impact on Smash yet, so we'll see what they choose to do if they add another Fire Emblem character (Though, my money is all on Three Houses).
