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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Kronch

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Oh, another note about the music: remixes that people made for Banjo's hypothetical Smash debut were also taken down in the same style as the joke Megalovania remix. Again, people didn't know why this happened until we saw Banjo at E3- just like people didn't know why it happened with Sans until we got the Mii Costume.

Something is up with our boy Geno. At the very least, he's getting the same treatment as Sans, and will come with two music tracks. But the full character is certainly possible, if not likely. I'd legitimately give Geno a 90% chance of getting in as his own character, and I'm literally certain that something is up with him.
 

Icewolff92

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We still don't know about the starling. I sincerely doubt it's related to Terry (his series icon being a star) for personal reasons, mostly a hunch. I also don't know if it's related to Geno. Maybe it could be, and the starling is a sign of what's to come through the additional DLC? Who knows?

By the way, anyone else notice how they had suspicious pauses on the NES and SNES for Terry's trailer? Wouldn't it be crazy if they closed off the FP with Ryu Hayabusa, then with Geno as a bonus?
If they hadn¨t announced more DLC as in "characters you can buy later" DLC, I could have seen that. But now? Not really. He is gonna be someone we have to pay for, be it as a costume or actual fighter
 

Vector Victor

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That damn starling bird is the bane of so many groups. Multiple fandoms think its either for Smash or an unannounced game/remake like the crabs for Link's Awakening. And yet, despite many game announcements that could connect to it in any degree, its always 'Nope.' The picture hints were interesting for speculation, but I can't believe we passed a Direct and E3 and the bird is still unclaimed. Would they really hint to something this far off? I'm starting to think it will never be explained.
 

Ovaltine

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If they hadn¨t announced more DLC as in "characters you can buy later" DLC, I could have seen that. But now? Not really. He is gonna be someone we have to pay for, be it as a costume or actual fighter
'Ey, I never said he'd be a free bonus. :p I'm guessing just individual DLC... which means I shoulda' worded that better anyway lol.
 

xpnc

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Nintendo claiming the Megalovania remix is all I need to know about Geno's chances. He's in.
 

Ovaltine

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Changed my signature now that I really feel Geno has a fighting chance again. Now I'm not hoping for him 'next time'. I'm hoping for him THIS TIME, BAYBEE!
 

Dynamic Worlok

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That damn starling bird is the bane of so many groups. Multiple fandoms think its either for Smash or an unannounced game/remake like the crabs for Link's Awakening. And yet, despite many game announcements that could connect to it in any degree, its always 'Nope.' The picture hints were interesting for speculation, but I can't believe we passed a Direct and E3 and the bird is still unclaimed. Would they really hint to something this far off? I'm starting to think it will never be explained.
Fatman confirmed that they know what the hint is for, but he's strictly disallowed from telling until the group gives him permission. Which might well be never. So I wouldn't hold my breath on the starling if I was you.
 

Icewolff92

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'Ey, I never said he'd be a free bonus. :p I'm guessing just individual DLC... which means I shoulda' worded that better anyway lol.
Yeah but even then, if RyuH or whoever it could be is is the last of this supposed pass. we won´t get a DLC character with them right of the bat. I mean, they only had like 5 second of gameplay of Terry to show us
 

Rie Sonomura

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Aight fam I’ve cracked the code re:the slots
There are 16 WoL slots, but 31 “regular” slots and alts don’t occupy the regular slots...

THIS MEANS THEY CAN IN FACT ADD MORE WOL SLOTS

View attachment 236985
Adding WoL slots is possible too since DBFZ added placeholder slots that weren’t there before recently

Yup. It’s WoL Expansion Time + a REALLY heckin long DLC period oh my GOD THIS **** IS REALLY HAPPENING IMMA SCREAM YO
 

Vector Victor

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Fatman confirmed that they know what the hint is for, but he's strictly disallowed from telling until the group gives him permission. Which might well be never. So I wouldn't hold my breath on the starling if I was you.
Oh, ok. So they do know. Well, that's some closure at least since what its referring to actually exists. I was thinking that it was either a mistake or outdated (like maybe obsolete information or someone misread something. Not accusing any of the leakers).
 

Ovaltine

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Hate to break it to y'all, but the 31 'regular' slots do include alts. The 16 WoL slots don't. Taking that into account, the numbers are like this:

16 - Plant - Joker - Hero - Banjo & Kazooie - Terry - Pack #5 = 10
31 - Plant - Joker (normal) - Joker (school outfit) - Luminary - Eight - Arusu - Solo - Banjo & Kazooie - Terry - Pack #5 = 21

So we have 21 regular slots and 10 WoL slots left, unless Terry somehow gets his female alt (which I doubt) or another outfit alt (which I moreso expect). That'd leave us with 20 regular slots at most.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I guess I’m misinterpreting somewhere, but I saw someone say that dataminers were saying stuff like “Oh, Joker has a school uniform so I guess that alt takes up a slot. Oh it doesn’t? Hmm” and the same for the other three Heroes

Again maybe I’m just misinterpreting it
 

GenoToto

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You know, I used to joke with my friends a while back; After we got the full roster, with the promise of five additional characters, we were all like, "haha, man, this roster's gonna have, like, a hundred fighters at this rate".

we weren't-- like, it was a joke, we weren't serious. but now it's almost looking like that's what Sakurai might do if he doesn't stop himself, and that's a frightening thought.
 

Ura

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So do we know all the music takedowns from this past year? The ones I can remember from the top of my head were...

- The Golden Sun remix (October, most likely for Isaac's appearance as an AT, Mii Costume, as well as the tracks he brought from Brawl/Smash 4).

- The Banjo Kazooie remix (Also taken down around the same time, we know obv what that was for).

- The Undertale MEGALOVANIA remix (not sure when this happened but now we know why the takedown happened).

- And now the two SMRPG takedowns. On one hand, it could be Geno's Mii Costume returning but like Fatman said, the window for that has passed. And notice the timing as well. This was done back in July, right before Hero's release. And we've seen the trend with SE giving each of their characters 2 tracks to represent their game.

It's very likely Geno is one of the additional DLC fighters really. Even more so considering Sakurai had the Mii Costume in Smash 4 to make the fans feel they got something and is creating additional DLC to please fans. You guys are in luck.
 
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Ovaltine

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I guess I’m misinterpreting somewhere, but I saw someone say that dataminers were saying stuff like “Oh, Joker has a school uniform so I guess that alt takes up a slot. Oh it doesn’t? Hmm” and the same for the other three Heroes

Again maybe I’m just misinterpreting it
Yeah, that was suspicion over the WoL slots, not the regular slots.

You know, I used to joke with my friends a while back; After we got the full roster, with the promise of five additional characters, we were all like, "haha, man, this roster's gonna have, like, a hundred fighters at this rate".

we weren't-- like, it was a joke, we weren't serious. but now it's almost looking like that's what Sakurai might do if he doesn't stop himself, and that's a frightening thought.
That's... a bit much, holy hell. Tell me that mad man won't do that.
 

Vector Victor

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Hate to break it to y'all, but the 31 'regular' slots do include alts. The 16 WoL slots don't. Taking that into account, the numbers are like this:

16 - Plant - Joker - Hero - Banjo & Kazooie - Terry - Pack #5 = 10
31 - Plant - Joker (normal) - Joker (school outfit) - Luminary - Eight - Arusu - Solo - Banjo & Kazooie - Terry - Pack #5 = 21

So we have 21 regular slots and 10 WoL slots left, unless Terry somehow gets his female alt (which I doubt) or another outfit alt (which I moreso expect). That'd leave us with 20 regular slots at most.
This is very helpful. Its important that we all look at this to avoid any miscommunication or incorrect information before going forward.

Anyway, according to Ovaltine, we are getting 43 more fighters, 9 of which are Geno.
 

Ovaltine

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This is very helpful. Its important that we all look at this to avoid any miscommunication or incorrect information before going forward.

Anyway, according to Ovaltine, we are getting 43 more fighters, 9 of which are Geno.
You can't say you're avoiding misinformation when you follow it up with that.

We're getting ten Genos, you goober :mad088:
 

MattX20

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This whole speculation cycle has been the ultimate roller coaster of emotions, with the announcement of additional DLC plus the confirmation that the Megalovania takedown meaning something towards Sans inclusion in Smash being the biggest high point we've ever had by far.
 
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Vector Victor

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You can't say you're avoiding misinformation when you follow it up with that.

We're getting ten Genos, you goober :mad088:
Goober!?

-Table flip-

Wait, in retrospect, that was an accurate and justified remark as I was wrong about the 9 Genos.

-Untable flip-


Actually, its 19 Genos, half of which are Genos piloting a Geno doll. That fire chainsaws. That explode.
 

EricTheGamerman

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If Geno isn't dlc fighter 7 we may be in trouble. That seems like the best possible spot for him since it references the game he comes from. So including piranha plant, we would have 6 fighters after this season pass, geno would logically come right after it's over... Hopefully.
I mean, would Geno as fighter number 7 be a cute little reference? Sure. Is it really such a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No. Sakurai certainly goes into a lot of detail with his characters and references, but the specific order of characters has lots of adult circumstances that dictate what gets developed when and how. #7 would have to be the first post Fighter's Pass character, so there's any number of circumstances riding on that specific character anyway that could have nothing to do with Geno, yet he still comes later down the line. I don't think there's any reason to proclaim doom and gloom if he's not #7, or even to honestly take notice of such an absence at all. The rules have changed and he can show up at any point in this extra DLC. It just all depends on any number of other things and it's potentially the element that Sakurai has the least control over.

As an aside, Master Chief would also stand to benefit from the #7 slot if we're going on important references to the base game, so in an idealistic world, either one of them would be great even though, like I said, I don't think the character's "number of DLC" matters in the least bit.

  • Overwatch on Switch is cool but between being full price and the Nintendo online service being paid, this game ain't gonna thrive on the system.
Overwatch isn't really full price, it's $40 (which is the exact same as other platforms when not on sale for reference). The "physical version" (a download code, which actually makes some sense for an online only game as a cartridge will just be worthless in a few years anyway, though the waste of plastic is not appreciated) costs $40 as well and comes with 3 months of Online, so it's not that bad.

This is something I began thinking about after the Megaman series costumes were shown, but Fatmanonice Fatmanonice had a great post yesterday going over why it made sense for those costumes to get revealed with pack 3 and how that may actually be a good thing for Geno’s chances. I could see them including Beware the Mushroom Forest and Battle against an Armed Boss with a costume but I also think with Cloud only getting two songs and each DQ Hero receiving 2 songs per game that may just be exactly what SE would be willing to provide to another character as annoying as that may be. The next costume pack announcements are going to be incredibly suspenseful though that’s for sure.
I still don't think the two tracks is a Square Enix specific thing, and with Yoko Shimomura being the main person behind the game's music (someone who is already extensively involved in Ultimate in addition to specifically composing the Treasure Trove Cove remix of Banjo & Kazooie's of all things), I'm really inclined to say that we would get more music with a hypothetical Geno. The Dragon Quest situation stills comes off as sort of invalidating this idea since, while, yes, it's two tracks per game, it's also eight tracks total and Square Enix were the ones to suggest using different Heroes in the first place. That sort of thing implies that Square Enix is at least somewhat more invested in Smash than some people think at times and there is a strong likelihood that Hero was going to come with more music than just two tracks prior to this decision making (I really don't think Sakurai would have been willing to walk away with only two tracks again after Cloud got so much push back from the community and he seemed disappointed in that reality). Here's the link to that Tweet just in case: https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1167866369724964866

Shimomura is not a Sugiyama or Uematsu level composer in terms of how guarded her musical contributions are. Uematsu and Sugiyama are famously difficult to work with and licensing is generally expensive for their stuff, so it typically comes in very limited forms. Shimomura, if anything, seems like the polar opposite and like a very reasonable and easy figure to work with. Square Enix also seems pretty open overall to Smash and working with Sakurai as well.

Of course, this operates on the presupposition that Geno gets a stage with his release... which is where things may potentially get interesting. If Geno is not intended to come with a stage, less music makes more sense. We've seen this with Corrin who came with two songs, so there's technically a small (though ultimately, not repeated due to the circumstances of every other new fighter coming with a new stage except Plant who has their own circumstances) precedent for this. As it stands, all the "slots" for stages will be filled when the Fighter's Pass concludes (given that the final one has an in-game use for Random Stage Select toggling of Custom Stages), but the character select screen? After Banjo & Kazooie, the character select screen with separated Echoes looks atrociously empty now. Terry and Fighter #5 will still leave around three spots for characters before the rectangle even completes and then there's still the issue of the Character Select Screen not even reaching the proper boarders of the screen with lots of empty space around the Fighters (It looks so awful and I'm lowkey upset that Banjo & Kazooie nuked my perfect rectangle for the foreseeable future haha). Obviously, we know menus can change and that it's not too difficult to change up the menus for new features, so it's not necessarily much to form ideas on... but I do think it makes sense to see fewer stages going forward, especially since modes also seem to be over and the focus is shifting towards characters, so that might be where two songs comes in more so than "Square Enix's policy."

It just kind of depends on the music take-down. Nintendo continues to surprise me in how blatantly and accidentally transparent they keep being with Smash. The Ultimate special edition box, mislabeling the Galaga track as Castlevania music, Stage Builder just dropping in an ad, "Brave" being the most obvious reference to Hero ever, and the SNK being added a fighter's page to ruin the surprise. My instinct with the original take down of "Megalovania" was that those actions were taken to avoid misrepresenting the brand since it was posted as "Smash music" by the uploader. But the more that I look at things, the more it strikes me as an utterly Nintendo thing to do in terms of taking down music and essentially revealing something about the future of Smash. They keep having these "oopsie" moments like this. Now, my initial instinct may still be correct and the Super Mario RPG tunes may have been taken down because they were in general targeting BrawlBRSTMs3's channel and they just got caught in the shuffle (again, I don't stand by YouTube claims holding any legal or speculative weight because they are by nature, corporation favoring and almost entirely unchecked). But it's worth reexamining in light of the new announcement and the Sans situation for sure.

TL;DR
If Geno comes with a stage, I suspect he'll come with more music than two tracks because I think Square Enix is more willing cooperate than we think, but the two tracks makes more sense if Geno just comes on his own and his music gets added to existing Mario stages. Still not convinced on the "music takedown theory," but it does warrant reexamining with Nintendo's accidentally obvious decision making with regards to Smash.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Nah we’re getting Dr. Geno, Cat Geno, Pink Gold Geno, Sword Geno, Monado Geno, Captain Geno, aaaaaand Baby Mallow

AND YOU WILL LIKE IT. :drflip::secretkpop:
 

Rohanx17

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so for those in the know is the 10 slots an actual hard limit or only just what's been programmed in so far? I don't expect they plan to go past it anyway but it's good to keep everything as straight as possible
 

UberPyro64

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so for those in the know is the 10 slots an actual hard limit or only just what's been programmed in so far? I don't expect they plan to go past it anyway but it's good to keep everything as straight as possible
I'd like them to try and reach 90. We're at 82 after this Fighter Pass, eight more would be nice.
 

Rie Sonomura

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so for those in the know is the 10 slots an actual hard limit or only just what's been programmed in so far? I don't expect they plan to go past it anyway but it's good to keep everything as straight as possible
I mean nothing’s preventing them from adding more, as Dragon Ball FighterZ added some slots that weren’t there before lately
 

EricTheGamerman

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so for those in the know is the 10 slots an actual hard limit or only just what's been programmed in so far? I don't expect they plan to go past it anyway but it's good to keep everything as straight as possible
There's no reason for them to be "a hard limit." You can program things to be whatever you want and they've done things there weren't actually initially programmed in like the VR option for Smash, If they want to make more than 10 additional fighters, they'll program it to fit that reality.

That said, there's certainly no guarantee that they'll fill all 10 slots either. They could stop at any point. As of right now, we're between 2 additional fighters (they confirmed additional fighters in the plural at yesterday's Direct, so we know at least two more are coming) and 10 (based off of the World of Light slots, it's not a hard limit, but it does create a range for us to work within).
 

Rohanx17

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I mean nothing’s preventing them from adding more, as Dragon Ball FighterZ added some slots that weren’t there before lately
well I recall some technical issues with updates/content with 4 though that might just be the 3ds's fault. still good to know though.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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well I recall some technical issues with updates/content with 4 though that might just be the 3ds's fault. still good to know though.
Yeah, apparently the 3DS had some limitations regarding the number of updates a game could handle for some reason (at least according to Sakurai), which is why characters tended to drop in groups as opposed to individually. We don't really know the specifics behind that, but that's what you're referring to I believe and shouldn't be any concern on Switch or anything else really (I just have no idea how that was a thing on 3DS and would like to hear more on that haha).
 

riggsbass

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By the way, anyone else notice how they had suspicious pauses on the NES and SNES for Terry's trailer? Wouldn't it be crazy if they closed off the FP with Ryu Hayabusa, then with Geno as a bonus?
Seeing this literally had me optimistic for a second that maybe it would dive into the SNES catalog, find SMRPG, and then bust in that way - sort of a reference to Geno being a legacy character of sorts. I was a little too optimistic, lol
 

JarBear

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Thanks everyone! As a reminder ... of course i must plug this in:

With the announcement of more DLC fighters for Smash, there is still a chance for Geno! In collaboration with Operation Starfall, I am starting a writing campaign for this month to send to Nintendo, Square and Sakurai (If possible). We need support!

Please send an email to smashultimatedlc@gmail.com in support for Geno.

The guidelines are pretty simple:

1.) KEEP THE MESSAGE CLEAN AND RESPECTFUL - However you want to write your message in support of Geno, please, it must be without vulgar, hateful speech or any other form of negativity.

2.) GENO SUPPORT - In your message, feel free to talk about how much you want to have Geno in Smash. Talk about the history you have with Geno in Mario RPG. Or, how about your support throughout the years to get him in. The focus is all about Geno getting into Smash!

3.) ATTACHMENTS - If you have any artwork or other attachments you would want, please send it! Similar guidelines with how the message needs to be. Clean and respectful.

At the end of the campaign we will print out these messages, artwork, etc and send it to the parties. We have the address for both Nintendo and Square's US office. We will keep trying for Sora Limited, AKA Sakurai.

With your support we can keep Geno in the spotlight and hopefully get him in with the next round of DLC!
 

OptimisticStrifer

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If I had to make a rough guess/ wishlist:

Fighter 5 will be Doom Guy

Fighters pass two will consist of: Waluigi, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Geno and Shantae

Fighter's pass three will have: Dixie Kong, Skull Kid, Phoenix Wright, Crash Bandicoot and Chell/ Reimu Hakurei (basically my out there wtf pick)

I could see Hayabusa, Lloyd Irving or Porky as on the table. Maybe even the Chorus Kids. I think generally though this would be the most profitable/ most fan pleasing line up.
 

Ovaltine

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I have just sent my wish for Geno in a long, heartfelt, happy little letter to Nintendo, Square, Sakurai, and the gang! Also attached some of my most meaningful Geno pieces, as well!!
 

Oshawott777

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Sabi: There's a certain person who is gonna back a character + fighter 4, who people trust quite a bit. And there's a 4chan leak that said fighter 4 + this same other character are the last two. I can already see the community going immediately to that 4chan post lol
I know this might be a wild goose chase, but I tried to use the v archive to find anything related to Smash and Terry. All of the opening posts I found only had incorrect info regarding the full dlc roster, but this one did catch my eye...

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/473904561/#473904561

Not saying Heihachi's next, but did anyone else find anything?
 

Sigran101

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I really think Geno is happening. The music copyright strikes are EXTREMELY suspicious now that Megalovania is in the game.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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I wholeheartedly believe that Geno is either fighter 5, or a mii costume. I suppose there's a chance he could be in the next fighter pass, but I personally think the next fighter pass is gonna be entirely first party. Geno is kinda-sorta a Mario character, so he could get in that way, but I dunno. I'm totally okay with it either way. I main Mii Gunner, so getting the Geno costume back (or perhaps a better costume?) along with SMRPG music is all I need. Him being an actual fighter would just be even better.
 

Ovaltine

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I really think Geno is happening. The music copyright strikes are EXTREMELY suspicious now that Megalovania is in the game.
I'm happy to admit that I'm wrong about the music strikes. I thought it was just random, and while the chance is still there for the SMRPG take downs to be random, the fact that they're so specific, directly removed by Nintendo (not Square), AND the timing of WHEN they were taken down...

Even my cynical, realistic thinking has changed to suspicion.
 

Fatmanonice

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Honestly, the table is being set pretty well Geno:

-No assist trophy or Mii costume and the logical timeframe for him to be revealed as one is now more than a month behind us.
-Geno being a legendary spirit and player icon shows they're well aware of how much the character is liked and wanted.
-SNES games now on the Switch virtual console meaning Geno + SMRPG on the Switch on the same day is a natural combo.
-The fact that they said that the bonus DLC is already in development gives strong evidence that they already had certain characters in mind.

Yeah, I think we're in a pretty good spot right now. Not to get peoples' hopes up but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Geno was one of the first bonus DLC characters based on these factors.
 

Nicnac

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It's honestly mad how this thread went from pretty large amounts of optimism before the SNK leak to abject misery when it dropped to generally really good spirits. Good to see that even those who were pessimistic before are now legit hopeful for the future!
 

Shyy_Guy595

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I support Geno. He completes Ridley and K. Rool out as the "seen as completely unlikely and kinda seen as jokes/memes until they actually made it because of the fact they had so much attention" trio.
 
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