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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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PokéfreakofBACON

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I'd be more than okay with that. I might even say I'd prefer that over the 1 character + 1 stage that they're doing with this pass.
Considering that most of the stages we get tend to be either not tourney-legal or just jank/annoying... yeah I'd have to agree. Echo fighters are way better than more stages.
 

domriver

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I would cry of happiness if Geno was revealed tomorrow. Though im not even expecting it but who knows.
Regarding the direct.. what are my hopes and wishes well lets see:
Bayonetta 3 update
Metroid Prime 4 update
Rare Replay so i can play Banjo Kazooie games again.
Show Case for B-K with release date for tomorrow. ( doubtful but hey it could happen)
DLC #4
DLC #5
Xeno Chronicle news (anything)
Resident Evil ( anything)
Fatal Frame ( anything)
anything else is just great! :)
Wishes and Hopes were meant to be broken so lol lets see how much of my list comes to fruition. jejeje
 

YsDisciple

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we're going to get something about Smash that blindsides us.
Smash logo pops for reveal

Everyone: Well, here we go. Let's go Terry, let's see how you look like.

over at Sora Ltd. Sakurai sits in his office, watching numerous screens of livestream reactions to the Nintendo Direct.

Sakurai: Hehe. PREDICTABO.

Incineroar is shown having a hard time fighting against K. Rool, Villager, and Bowser Jr. As Incineroar is knocked out of the ring, Terry approaches the ring. As he enters and Rool, Jr., and Villager focus on him, they are startled when they see two other characters appear beside Terry. Andy, and Joe stand beside him, ready to fight.

Everyone: WHOA WHAT THE F***?!?!?!

Sakurai puts on a red cap and smirks.
 

wynn728

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Smash logo pops for reveal

Everyone: Well, here we go. Let's go Terry, let's see how you look like.

over at Sora Ltd. Sakurai sits in his office, watching numerous screens of livestream reactions to the Nintendo Direct.

Sakurai: Hehe. PREDICTABO.

Incineroar is shown having a hard time fighting against K. Rool, Villager, and Bowser Jr. As Incineroar is knocked out of the ring, Terry approaches the ring. As he enters and Rool, Jr., and Villager focus on him, they are startled when they see two other characters appear beside Terry. Andy, and Joe stand beside him, ready to fight.

Everyone: WHOA WHAT THE F***?!?!?!

Sakurai puts on a red cap and smirks.
Oh my god there were three fighters in that Incineroar trailer at the end. Nooooooooo.... stop. I don't want to believe... but that would be so cool. The set up is great, no doubt about that. You're legit on the verge of convincing me that could happen (just not with Andy & Joe). My brain is that's too much work but my heart is saying that would be the best thing ever.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I really don't get why Nintendo neglects the crap out of IPs like F-Zero. People even made Fast Racing Neo to try and scratch that itch, but Nintendo never got the message. At least Capcom had the smarts to realize the demand for another Megaman game after Mighty Number 9 tried their hand.
Because Nintendo has a ton of projects at any one point without digging up the old IPs, so there's not as much of a need to dig into every existing franchise they have to make a notable catalogue of games for their system. Capcom had relied upon Mega Man games for like 20 years before he took a hiatus, and it's much more difficult to retire a character that acts as your pseudo-mascot than characters that end up ranking as your 10th or lower selling franchise that has a handful of games.

The sad fact is that despite how much fans call for certain games, they just don't sell super well traditionally and were trending downward for ages. Despite being basically the best F-Zero game ever, GX sold less than a million copies, and the following GBA game didn't even break 250,000. Even though Metroid gets held up as a "third pillar of Nintendo" by the hardcore fans, it's best selling game was the original Metroid Prime and that didn't break 3 million copies and most don't go past the 2 million mark. Golden Sun fans will tell you how it sold a million on the GBA, but then Dark Dawn did abysmally bad. As much as people claim they want a traditional Paper Mario, the original RPG games sold worse than Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star. Pikmin gets hyped all the time but never broke 2 million sales. These aren't necessarily bad sales, but they are worse sales than the many screaming fans would lead you to believe.

There's a pretty massive disconnect between what fans want and what actually translates to sales for Nintendo. You can argue all kinds of different circumstances for each specific situation, but those sorts of things matter a whole lot to Nintendo. Games that are performing worse than others are the first on the chopping block when it comes to finding funds for other projects and ideas. A cheaply made Mario spin-off will sell better than the same IPs fans generally call for, and those IPs require substantially more investment and cost for productions (including finding new teams to handle such a different game), so it's no surprise. Especially when paired with Nintendo's perpetual need to justify sequels to themselves and the fact that they don't like the ideas of a sequel for a sequel's sake part of the time.


Also, unrelated, but if we're talking a second Fighter's Pass and we're in the timeline where we get Halo on Switch, Master Chief in Smash needs to be an absolute priority. Make the greatest crossover all the bigger Sakurai!
 

zferolie

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Messages
5,002
Smash logo pops for reveal

Everyone: Well, here we go. Let's go Terry, let's see how you look like.

over at Sora Ltd. Sakurai sits in his office, watching numerous screens of livestream reactions to the Nintendo Direct.

Sakurai: Hehe. PREDICTABO.

Incineroar is shown having a hard time fighting against K. Rool, Villager, and Bowser Jr. As Incineroar is knocked out of the ring, Terry approaches the ring. As he enters and Rool, Jr., and Villager focus on him, they are startled when they see two other characters appear beside Terry. Andy, and Joe stand beside him, ready to fight.

Everyone: WHOA WHAT THE F***?!?!?!

Sakurai puts on a red cap and smirks.
I honestly would like it if they went a pokemon trainer route, for it to be Terry, Nakoruru, and a Metal slug characters. Rep SNK's 3 biggest franchises.

Most likely though it would be 3 fighting game characters, in that case I say Terry, Nakoruru, and Mai.
 

Ze Diglett

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As much as people claim they want a traditional Paper Mario, the original RPG games sold worse than Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star.
Though to be fair, Color Splash did sell pretty abysmally by comparison. Hopefully that'll get Nintendo to change up the formula now that da numbers aren't in their favor anymore.
Though more likely, knowing Nintendo, they'll probably just figure that people don't like Paper Mario anymore and give up on the series...
But I want all the missing 64, Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 stages to come back just so we can say "Everywhere Is Here!"
Honestly, if we can just get Poke Floats back, Ultimate will officially be the definitive Smash game beyond a shadow of a doubt. Too bad Sakurai seems to hate that stage...
I just wanna see my boi again...
 

Ura

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The sad fact is that despite how much fans call for certain games, they just don't sell super well traditionally and were trending downward for ages. Despite being basically the best F-Zero game ever, GX sold less than a million copies, and the following GBA game didn't even break 250,000. Even though Metroid gets held up as a "third pillar of Nintendo" by the hardcore fans, it's best selling game was the original Metroid Prime and that didn't break 3 million copies and most don't go past the 2 million mark. Golden Sun fans will tell you how it sold a million on the GBA, but then Dark Dawn did abysmally bad. As much as people claim they want a traditional Paper Mario, the original RPG games sold worse than Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star. Pikmin gets hyped all the time but never broke 2 million sales. These aren't necessarily bad sales, but they are worse sales than the many screaming fans would lead you to believe.
I honestly think this comes off as rather disingenuous no offense. Especially when you consider like half of the series haven't even had an entry in a decade (or even more than that) and the market then isn't the same as it is now.

I mean take Golden Sun for an example. It had the misfortune of having to release at the tail end of the DS' lifecycle when Nintendo went full throttle with the 3DS. Timing is crucial and we've seen this time and time again. Golden Sun served to benefit being released at the start of the GBA's life but Dark Dawn floundered because of being at the end of it. Also, piracy among DS games was rampant at that time so that could have easily played in to that. And now the Switch is a hotbed for JRPG's of all kinds (see Octopath Traveler). More likely than not, Golden Sun has a strong chance of succeeding in today's age.

And then you could have something like F-Zero/Advance Wars which may have been on the decline towards the end of their latest entries (well less so Advance Wars that actually rebounded in it's latest entry) but again, it's like your citing decade+ old games as a reason why fans wouldn't be interested when it's a different time and the Switch's audience is a different animal to the Gamecube/Wii generation. I mean one could say that's not conclusive evidence yeah maybe but then you look at the successes of games like Wargroove/Fast Racing Neo and you wonder to yourself why Nintendo can't invest in the capital to at least give these franchises a chance; a new lease on life and see how far they can go. What kind of benefit they could serve to strengthen their IP lineup.

I mean hell, Nintendo was about to put FE on the chopping block before Awakening so much so that it's last entry didn't even get localized. Imagine if after FE12, Nintendo was all like "this IP does nothing for us and we need to put it to rest". They would have lost out on what would have been their most successful IP's in the modern day and a major revenue stream for their mobile business.

So yeah, you have to consider different times as well as a series potential to grow. It's not as clear cut as you put it out even if some higher up's at Nintendo think so.
 

ZelDan

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I honestly think this comes off as rather disingenuous no offense. Especially when you consider like half of the series haven't even had an entry in a decade (or even more than that) and the market then isn't the same as it is now.

I mean take Golden Sun for an example. It had the misfortune of having to release at the tail end of the DS' lifecycle when Nintendo went full throttle with the 3DS. Timing is crucial and we've seen this time and time again. Golden Sun served to benefit being released at the start of the GBA's life but Dark Dawn floundered because of being at the end of it. Also, piracy among DS games was rampant at that time so that could have easily played in to that. And now the Switch is a hotbed for JRPG's of all kinds (see Octopath Traveler). More likely than not, Golden Sun has a strong chance of succeeding in today's age.

And then you could have something like F-Zero/Advance Wars which may have been on the decline towards the end of their latest entries (well less so Advance Wars that actually rebounded in it's latest entry) but again, it's like your citing decade+ old games as a reason why fans wouldn't be interested when it's a different time and the Switch's audience is a different animal to the Gamecube/Wii generation. I mean one could say that's not conclusive evidence yeah maybe but then you look at the successes of games like Wargroove/Fast Racing Neo and you wonder to yourself why Nintendo can't invest in the capital to at least give these franchises a chance; a new lease on life and see how far they can go. What kind of benefit they could serve to strengthen their IP lineup.

I mean hell, Nintendo was about to put FE on the chopping block before Awakening so much so that it's last entry didn't even get localized. Imagine if after FE12, Nintendo was all like "this IP does nothing for us and we need to put it to rest". They would have lost out on what would have been their most successful IP's in the modern day and a major revenue stream for their mobile business.

So yeah, you have to consider different times as well as a series potential to grow. It's not as clear cut as you put it out even if some higher up's at Nintendo think so.
There's also the fact that Golden Sun: Dark Dawn didn't have as good a reception as both of the GBA games. The lack of reception mostly being due to the execution of the game, not a lack of interest in the GS series.

Had they released the game sooner during the DS's life cycle and had the game been closer to the quality of the GBA games, it might have sold much better.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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Messages
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Glad the thread is back up. I finally got caught up. I would love to hear some Metroid Prime 4 details tomorrow but I think that's highly unlikely.

If fighters pass 2 is to come I totally agree about not doing stages and Mii costumes and instead doing echo fighters. I also agree that I don't want them to stop doing third party reps but would also want to see some first party make it too. If fighters pass 2 is also 5 characters maybe: Crash, Isaac, Geno, Namco rep (Llyod?), and Rayman.

Also J JarBear I believe you were talking about getting some stuff together to present to Nintendo to encourage more DLC. I would be interested in contributing to that if you decide to move forward with it hopefully other people here feel the same way. Nice thinking.
 

Sigran101

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If geno gets revealed tomorrow, (thats no gonna happen but okay) how do you feel about that?
In all honesty, it would probably be a disaster for me. I'm on the brink of a bad cough right now, and when I get a cough, I get a ****ing cough. If Geno pops up tommorow, I'll probably scream from excitement, start hacking away, go past the point of no return, and resign myself to sitting in my dorm room with a humidifier eating soup and yogurt for a couple of weeks, using up all my sick days for Psych Seminar, losing points on in class assignments, and missing out on precious time with my fiancee. But it would all be worth it.
 

Megadoomer

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Barest minimum, it seems extremely likely that we'll see something about Banjo and Kazooie. (and hopefully Banjo-Kazooie, the game. Come on, Rare Replay port!)
 

MissingGlitch

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Sakurai hearing that Nintendo leaked the SNK trademarks making this the 2nd time Nintendo has leaked something right before a reveal
ede.jpg
 
D

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Guest
Sakurai hearing that Nintendo leaked the SNK trademarks making this the 2nd time Nintendo has leaked something right before a reveal
View attachment 236705
Well at least they didn't leak what's about to come after the Terry announcement which is of course an announcement of Geno in Smash! Terry for the beginning of the Direct and Geno at the end!
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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If that happened, and assist trophies started getting upgraded, we could actually see Black Knight get in alongside Edelgard/Byleth! I know it's not really going to happen but I can dream.
I personally don't think we're going to get anymore FE reps, since Sakurai is on record saying he thinks there's too many. (He said that before Corrin, even.) It's kind of a shame since apparently Smash is oversatured with Lords and FE in general has way more interesting characters. If we did get a FETH rep, do you think they'd make the echo black knight? I think making the echo another FE3H rep would be more likely, but I'm not exactly into the series.
 

StarLight42

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I'd say Fatmanonice is crazy for expecting more than the bear and terr. I'm gonna call him a smelly asshole unless he proves me wrong ;)
 

Sigran101

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I personally don't think we're going to get anymore FE reps, since Sakurai is on record saying he thinks there's too many. (He said that before Corrin, even.) It's kind of a shame since apparently Smash is oversatured with Lords and FE in general has way more interesting characters. If we did get a FETH rep, do you think they'd make the echo black knight? I think making the echo another FE3H rep would be more likely, but I'm not exactly into the series.
No one would really work as an echo from TH. I do think Edelgard or Byleth is extremely likey for a second fighter pass due to the fact that they didn't add any TH spirits. My guess would be Edelgard. An armored axe user instead of another swordy would go over better and be much more unique.
View attachment 236693

this is some good stuff.
This is absolute gold! Mind if I steal it?
 

EricTheGamerman

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I honestly think this comes off as rather disingenuous no offense. Especially when you consider like half of the series haven't even had an entry in a decade (or even more than that) and the market then isn't the same as it is now.

I mean take Golden Sun for an example. It had the misfortune of having to release at the tail end of the DS' lifecycle when Nintendo went full throttle with the 3DS. Timing is crucial and we've seen this time and time again. Golden Sun served to benefit being released at the start of the GBA's life but Dark Dawn floundered because of being at the end of it. Also, piracy among DS games was rampant at that time so that could have easily played in to that. And now the Switch is a hotbed for JRPG's of all kinds (see Octopath Traveler). More likely than not, Golden Sun has a strong chance of succeeding in today's age.

And then you could have something like F-Zero/Advance Wars which may have been on the decline towards the end of their latest entries (well less so Advance Wars that actually rebounded in it's latest entry) but again, it's like your citing decade+ old games as a reason why fans wouldn't be interested when it's a different time and the Switch's audience is a different animal to the Gamecube/Wii generation. I mean one could say that's not conclusive evidence yeah maybe but then you look at the successes of games like Wargroove/Fast Racing Neo and you wonder to yourself why Nintendo can't invest in the capital to at least give these franchises a chance; a new lease on life and see how far they can go. What kind of benefit they could serve to strengthen their IP lineup.

I mean hell, Nintendo was about to put FE on the chopping block before Awakening so much so that it's last entry didn't even get localized. Imagine if after FE12, Nintendo was all like "this IP does nothing for us and we need to put it to rest". They would have lost out on what would have been their most successful IP's in the modern day and a major revenue stream for their mobile business.

So yeah, you have to consider different times as well as a series potential to grow. It's not as clear cut as you put it out even if some higher up's at Nintendo think so.
I made a comment that you could pick apart the individual circumstances if you wished, but that again, that doesn't matter when many of these games trend downward in sales and never did amazingly even at their absolute peaks.

I always hear about Golden Sun Dark Dawn being screwed over by releasing late in the DS' life and I'm honestly not convinced on that argument. The game released 4 months before the 3DS launched, so there was a pretty wide window in that lead-up period. Then, to further complicate that situation, the 3DS went for months without quality software and did poorly, so the DS remained king in most people's eyes and new 3DS owners had backwards compatibility to play older titles for those people starved for new games to play. The game also averaged a 8/10 with most review sites, and while not as loved as the GBA games, was still well received with a lot of fans too. So it wasn't a massive quality issue like a lot of sequels have had. There's also Pokemon Black and White that came out a year after Golden Sun that still managed to sell almost 16 million units (I mean, yeah, it's Pokemon, but that's only like 2 million removed from Diamond/Pearl and it shows that there was indeed a market for DS games at the time). Not to mention the DS had an install base of well over 100 million by that point. The only real issue I see looking back at Dark Dawn is the advertising, but Nintendo made a big deal about Golden Sun returning at E3 2009 and its showing at E3 2010... Dark Dawn's narrative has always been the "poor Golden Sun game released at the wrong time," and I used to refer to that narrative too. But the more I look into that situation, the less convincing it seems.

But to reference something more recent: Metroid Samus Returns released in 2017 as the new 2D Metroid and a remake of a game people had been asking for. Yes, people can argue about the Switch and the 3DS to some extent, but giving the fans exactly what they wanted still resulted in sales of barely over half a million. They gave it to a player base of 70 million at the time and they barely touched it. There's a good chance it would have performed better on Switch, sure. But Nintendo still gave fans what they wanted and they didn't exactly come out in droves to support the exact product they had been asking for officially from Nintendo despite it being an, by all accounts, excellent re-imagining of Metroid II. When you're franchise or games series isn't doing well, you can't really afford to be a choosing beggar about a ton of the specifics of it, especially when the title ends up an actually quality release, just not on the flashiest system (which again, had a huge install base and the Switch was still working on proving itself in September 2017 and arguably, even Nintendo themselves weren't ready for it to be the standout success it was).

It's also worth bringing up the point that smaller releases like Wargroove and Fast Racing Neo work so well and are successful because they don't have to invest as much money into their projects and have smaller teams to develop their own titles. They don't have to sell as much to make a profit, whereas a new F-Zero for example would absolutely demand high quality and a bigger budget to live up to Nintendo standards. That's usually taking development resources away from another potential project to fund this one, which struggled in the past and doesn't read well when you're looking at the data. I think people forget just how much of a business Nintendo actually is. They're leagues better than other gaming companies, but there's also a practical side to them, and when these titles also don't have people in Nintendo pushing passionately for their return, they're a lot less likely to come back. It also doesn't help when a comparable big release of the same type of game by Sony doesn't sell well. The Wipeout Omega Collection is an amazing game that combines lots of releases people didn't have access to... and they've been rewarded with less than a million sales, which is probably enough profit for the HD re-releases, but doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in a new game.

It's just risk/reward analysis. Yes, they would have missed out on Fire Emblem becoming a huge IP if Awakening had not done extremely well, but that's an impossible hail mary type situation that you could never predict working out as amazingly as it did. Yes, part of business is diversification and investing in a wide variety of projects. But Nintendo seems pretty clear in their interest to pushing forward new ideas and new IPs over digging up old ones that never had the best sales at their peaks. And again, I can't emphasize this point enough, a lot of these titles, are not bringing in the customers Nintendo wants. As a business, you want to expand your market share and that means bringing in new customers to buy your products. A new F-Zero, a new Golden Sun, a new Advance Wars... those games are for the Nintendo dedicated and hardcore, and most of them are already buying a Switch and several games. Nintendo's learned that they can largely just release really solid Mario, Smash Bros, and Zelda titles and placate that section of the fan base basically no matter what. It's uninteresting from an investment angle to just keep investing in those people when you've already found a really solid flow of content to provide to those consumers. So, what do you instead? You invest in new projects that will convince people they need that system or that game, and invest in "new ways to play" to make the system more attractive. You invest in making a Nintendo LABO, you invest in new IPs and hope you get a Splatoon, you partner with third parties to bring big hits to the Switch and reaffirm your commitment to support beyond first party Nintendo IPs. You spend the capital on R&D for the next system so you can get another Switch type situation with whatever the next console is.

To be clear, I'm not saying that these titles have absolutely no chance at having a place in the Switch library. They may sell incredibly well if released on Switch. BUT, they are not attractive investments for the shareholders at Nintendo and they're going to struggle to be made without an active voice within Nintendo pushing for them (like Miyamoto and Star Fox Zero, as poorly as it turned out, that's what brought Star Fox back). There's also just so many fans pushing for so many things, that you more or less do have to pick and choose which things you really prioritize and which ones you don't. Yes, I'm not taking in all of the factors that determined the poor sales of previous games or the failures of a franchise in the past, but it's really worth noting just how actually small of a fan base these titles have from a sales perspective at times and how they failed to turn out to support the series in the past. ANYTHING can theoretically succeed at the right time with the right advertising, and I'm absolutely certain Nintendo is taking everything into consideration for the future. I'd love to see these franchises come back, but in several cases, it will be a big surprise for good reason.
 

BerBer456

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There's also the fact that Golden Sun: Dark Dawn didn't have as good a reception as both of the GBA games. The lack of reception mostly being due to the execution of the game, not a lack of interest in the GS series.

Had they released the game sooner during the DS's life cycle and had the game been closer to the quality of the GBA games, it might have sold much better.
This golden sun discussion warms my heart. I’m so glad to see that this series still is alive somewhere. I really hope Isaac joins smash someday as a fighter. He’s my #2 most wanted besides Geno being my #1.
 

T2by4

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I fear tomorrow, to be honest. Not sure why. I just do, you know?
What for? Is it in regards to if Geno is a mii costume or not? If so, I feel ya there. Im going in expecting banjo and terry and HOPEFULLY Geno dodges a bullet to survive another day and become dlc at some point. My theory is that if Ryu truly is the last dlc for this pass, then there's another pass since there's no way smash visited Bethesda for nothing. Doomguy is coming one way or another, if that means hayabusa is the final dlc for this pass, then that all but confirms another season pass is coming and if we don't have a mii costume by then, then I think we have a strong chance.
 
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MissingGlitch

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I've made peace with tomorrow. I have a slight hope everyone is wrong but I'm not gonna hold my breath. No point fighting what's going to happen regardless.
 

Glitch-EGamer

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What for? Is it in regards to if Geno is a mii costume or not? If so, I feel ya there. Im going in expecting banjo and terry and HOPEFULLY Geno dodges a bullet to survive another day and become dlc at some point. My theory is that if Ryu truly is the last dlc for this pass, then there's another pass since there's no way smash visited Bethesda for nothing. Doomguy is coming one way or another, if that means hayabusa is the final dlc for this pass, then that all but confirms another season pass is coming and if we don't have a mii costume by then, then I think we have a strong chance.
Just the unknown in general. I have no idea what to expect besides a controversial Pokemon title and Hotel Mario HD.

And probably Banjo for Smash and Terry
 
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ForsakenM

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Messages
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Okay guys, FILL ME IN!

I've been gone since 8AM.

What has changed other than a Direct apparently happening ON THE MUTHAF-ING 5TH?!
 

MissingGlitch

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Okay guys, FILL ME IN!

I've been gone since 8AM.

What has changed other than a Direct apparently happening ON THE MUTHAF-ING 5TH?!
Aruging. For a couple pages. Thread was locked for a few hours. Now we are back to our orginally scheduled programming. We laughed, we cried and Also I made a couple memes.
 

SSGuy

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Yeah, that should be something to mention here as well,


Operation StarFall did an interview with Smash Player and Geno Fan, Wishes last month and we finally had a chance to piece together our interview.

Go check it out!
 
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