Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[AugustusB]

Just caught up. Lets be real for a quick second...Overwatch on the Switch would be pretty neat. I have never played it, but I would want to pick it up especially for the on the go adventures. Does it mean a possible Smash inclusion? Not really. Could it? Maybe. Lets let it be and see what happens.

Also Fatmanonice I do not envy y'all over at the private discord lol. You guys are getting info, yet you have to Da Vinci code it in order to understand it. Always appreciate whenever you do/can share something with us.

ALSO Geno is a cool dude!

 

[ForsakenM]

I may pass out before I finish this, what with 6AM coming so quick an all, but oh well.

Also, I'm going to be a bit negative about Overwatch, and many of my quotes are thoseof MissingGlitch so I want to say up front that this isn't targeting or hate or anything towards her as she is pretty dope and one of the few people I pay attention to on Twitter...and I hate Twitter, so hopefully I made it clear that means something. But before I address that, to some other posts first.

Honestly Resident Evil was the only other thing I've been considering the Starling hint could be if it's related to Smash and isn't Geno. Mii costume theory may be basically deconfirmed, but if we were going to get a Capcom rep I'd say RE is their most iconic franchise that hasn't been represented yet. And if Jill Valentine is the next rep that'd give the pass a female character to balance out the three male newcomers we've gotten thus far. Still hoping that it's Geno, but Jill would be understandable.

Looks like someone forgot about Dante. Would love to see motorcycle, but it would obviously be classic Dante if he got in.

Also Capcom has a plethora of iconic characters, even if they themselves forgot about them.

Well, we aren't saying you can't be happy if this is the case. If I am coming across as attacking you for liking the character, I apologize. I think my shock and confusion is probably why I might seem a bit hostile about it.

It would also come off as more Blizzard buying out the spot over actual fan demand. Similar irk I have with Disney getting in (but arguable not as hard since Sora's name floats around Smash fans a lot)

Jesus.

So first off, you need to get over the idea of Disney or Blizzard taking over Smash. For some reason you keep thinking that a character from either company getting in equals them screwing up Smash.

Nintendo is a goddamn titan. Disney has no stock in the video game market and is slowly ruining their movie franchises along the way, and Blizzard is a joke in comparison to Nintendo. Nintendo has full control over Smash and has the most pull in any talks. This is about Nintendo coming to YOU and saying 'We want to put your character in Smash, and we will make sure it's the best version and make it like how fans want.' If either of these companies tried to pull any bull****, Nintendo/Sora Ltd would just turn around and walk out and talk about the experience later in an interview.

Seriously, just because you don't like some of the things a company does or the characters they own doesn't mean you need to act like they are Freiza-sama coming to take over Nintendo or something. Also, don't forget what it means to be the biggest face of Operation Starfall and having outsiders see you slandering characters with hate. You can talk about not likely a character, but in all honesty you go in a but too hard when you do, so maybe just reign it in a bit?

Now time for me to prove the old adage 'Do as I say, not as I do.'

EDIT: You will need to replace the word 'someone' with 'some how' in a couple of places here. I'm dying so as to resurrect at 6 and I can't focus well enough to find them all I'm sorry.

Spoiler: Overwatch and Tracer 'Hate'

I will admit though if in one direct they go
"Overwatch is coming to the switch...and we have one more announcement *Tracer for Smash*"
It would really come off as a promotional thing Like how the Hero transitioned into a Dragon Quest Ad after his reveal.

Starting off small, there would be a clear difference here.

One is an iconic series that is a big Japan pick that also has seen recent success on a huge scale in the West.

The other is Overwatch.

Tracer =/= Hero even in the sense, as you cannot compare the series to each other in the slightest. Dragon Quest isn't just a shill pick, whereas an Overwatch character couldn't be anything else BUT a shill pick...and by that I mean Blizzard someone offered Nintendo so much money that Nintendo dropped their morals.

I don't think that's exactly fair. And it comes off as rather harsh. Overwatch is still relevant and is still Blizzard's biggest money maker. If Nintendo and Sakurai wanted Tracer, they would get Tracer. But I can see people really hate the idea here so I'm just gonna stop talking about it.

Overwatch is not relevant. If Blizzard would let it die, it would. This may be anecdotal, but it's also still proof.

Back when Overwatch was still big, literally everyone I knew had a copy and was playing. Even my old roommate played it, and he was known for only playing JRPGs and Smash. It wasn't too long though before it died out, mainly due to Blizzard's lack of listening to the fanbase but also due to the dev team having members with god complexes and trying harder to appeal to those outside your demographic than to those within it. We've seen enough of this recently to know what happens.

Regardless, it's nowhere near where it was before and it keeps fading.

It wasn't if you were on the receiving end of a lot of it. I seriously can't believe how harshly people are taking even the slight possibility of Tracer getting into Smash. It's like we are forgetting how much **** we get for supporting Geno almost everywhere that isn't here.

There is a difference between us getting hate for truly loving our character and supporting him and not wanting Tracer because of what she represents. In case you are wondering...

She represents many things outside of just herself. She represents her game and the genre, which is a dead genre and a game on life-support, so as I said earlier her inclusion would be nothing short of everyone knowing that Nintendo made big bank off of Blizzard. She represents Esports on a level that Smash has never obtained, both in popularity (albeit brief) and toxicity. The fans that would come with her would make this awkward dent in the Smash community as they bring in their baggage and their attitude and I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but the community has enough of it's own drama without including more. As bad as Smash fans can get, it's usually all outside of the game, not in game. Now imagine all the Overwatch players who come over and bring their in-game attitude to Smash. I never thought I would be glad that Nintendo's voice chat option was so out-of-touch...

This one will ignite some fires I'm sure, but she would also represent her orientation. To be clear, I'm not declaring anything about her orientation on it's own merits (other than how tacked on it felt), but you can be sure her being the first character in Smash to openly be of said orientation would be a big deal in more ways than one and would garner a whole new ball to add to this juggle session (remember, got a feather removed because people got overly upset over something so minute. Imagine if people felt Tracer wasn't 'good enough' or that she wasn't 'represented properly' or how upset they could get if she ended up being middle tier?).

She also represents controversy about her from within her own game, forget what could spawn from Smash. She also represents a company that Smash fans seemingly very much dislike, which makes a lot of sense when you compare Nintendo to Blizzard ("You all have phones, don't you?!" and "You don't want that. You think that you want that, but you really don't want that." come to mind immediately).

There is probably more I missed, but if you could somehow erase ALL of that baggage and someone magically make her a part of a game that was better in every way and from a company that was much better...I think she could easily work in Smash. I think she has enough potential in her moveset to whip up something, and having a character with time-wimey abilities in Smash that were less passive than would be pretty cool...but I must say Tracer really isn't all that wanted by the community. Once again, not that she isn't wanted at all (as you yourself are proof enough and I know there would be others) but she's not on the same scale as others, and if she got in before any of the other big names I would be livid.

I'm gonna head out if things start becoming an anti-overwatch agreement fest...especially since it will be hypocritical from the way Geno fans are normally treated.

Like most things. You need to seperate the fanbase from the actual property. Smash is a great example. You know how often all Smash fans are lumped together as some toxic group. But people are still able to play and enjoy the game?

To sum it up best, there is a difference between having a fanbase's toxicity revolve around them, and having a fanbase's toxicity encompass their game. One can seem ungrateful and irritating and irrational and rude...and the other has all this AND acts like this in-game. It's a part of Overwatch's basic community now and you can encounter it in way too many of the matches you play.

Smash is lucky enough to have something most games don't have: a clear line in the sand between casuals and competitive players, on which side each can enjoy the game. Overwatch is for aggressive competitive players only and the experience shows.

Also, this isn't really hypocritical for Geno fans to not want Tracer or anything Overwatch in Smash. It's on the same level as not wanting anything Fortnite or Apex Legends in Smash: there are bigger fan picks that have been asked for for LITERAL years, over a DECADE now, and having characters from games that will be dead and forgotten in due time that are made just to rake in cash and made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs is a slap in the face. I tried coming up with analogies that would be less direct but I just can't think of one that works well enough, so I'll just have to leave that sting in there.

All this said, feel free to enjoy the game and feel free to want Tracer to make it into Smash. Just because others don't like something doesn't mean you have to stop, and you can like Tracer and still want Geno. I would never hate on you for a character you want or a game you love because that just doesn't make sense. All I ask is that if I can respect the fact that you like Overwatch and would love to play as Tracer in Smash, that you can respect the fact that Tracer being part of the Fighter Pass is one of the few things on my list that would make me not buy Ultimate and wait for the next entry without her in it from the sheer anger at Nintendo for dropping not just the ball but the whole goddamn court in my opinion.

 

[Ovaltine]

Also, this isn't really hypocritical for Geno fans to not want Tracer or anything Overwatch in Smash. It's on the same level as not wanting anything Fortnite or Apex Legends in Smash: there are bigger fan picks that have been asked for for LITERAL years, over a DECADE now, and having characters from games that will be dead and forgotten in due time that are made just to rake in cash and made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs is a slap in the face. I tried coming up with analogies that would be less direct but I just can't think of one that works well enough, so I'll just have to leave that sting in there.

All this said, feel free to enjoy the game and feel free to want Tracer to make it into Smash. Just because others don't like something doesn't mean you have to stop, and you can like Tracer and still want Geno. I would never hate on you for a character you want or a game you love because that just doesn't make sense. All I ask is that if I can respect the fact that you like Overwatch and would love to play as Tracer in Smash, that you can respect the fact that Tracer being part of the Fighter Pass is one of the few things on my list that would make me not buy Ultimate and wait for the next entry without her in it from the sheer anger at Nintendo for dropping not just the ball but the whole goddamn court in my opinion.

Entirely agreed. That being said, yeah, I really feel as though I ought to apologize again for being especially abrasive about OW earlier. My opinions are mine alone, and that doesn't mean that Tracer is an inherently bad idea. I respect whoever wants her, I really do, and that respect ought to show in how I behave around her fans. I'll take that L.

So, uh... by the way... Forgot to mention that I'm working on a huge character sheet going in great detail about how my interpretation of Geno is, from every big quality down to the smaller ones, concept stuff, etc., so... uh. Look forward to that? I guess??

 

[Datboigeno]

I may pass out before I finish this, what with 6AM coming so quick an all, but oh well.

Also, I'm going to be a bit negative about Overwatch, and many of my quotes are thoseof MissingGlitch so I want to say up front that this isn't targeting or hate or anything towards her as she is pretty dope and one of the few people I pay attention to on Twitter...and I hate Twitter, so hopefully I made it clear that means something. But before I address that, to some other posts first.



Looks like someone forgot about Dante. Would love to see motorcycle, but it would obviously be classic Dante if he got in.

Also Capcom has a plethora of iconic characters, even if they themselves forgot about them.



Jesus.

So first off, you need to get over the idea of Disney or Blizzard taking over Smash. For some reason you keep thinking that a character from either company getting in equals them screwing up Smash.

Nintendo is a goddamn titan. Disney has no stock in the video game market and is slowly ruining their movie franchises along the way, and Blizzard is a joke in comparison to Nintendo. Nintendo has full control over Smash and has the most pull in any talks. This is about Nintendo coming to YOU and saying 'We want to put your character in Smash, and we will make sure it's the best version and make it like how fans want.' If either of these companies tried to pull any bull****, Nintendo/Sora Ltd would just turn around and walk out and talk about the experience later in an interview.

Seriously, just because you don't like some of the things a company does or the characters they own doesn't mean you need to act like they are Freiza-sama coming to take over Nintendo or something. Also, don't forget what it means to be the biggest face of Operation Starfall and having outsiders see you slandering characters with hate. You can talk about not likely a character, but in all honesty you go in a but too hard when you do, so maybe just reign it in a bit?

Now time for me to prove the old adage 'Do as I say, not as I do.'

EDIT: You will need to replace the word 'someone' with 'some how' in a couple of places here. I'm dying so as to resurrect at 6 and I can't focus well enough to find them all I'm sorry.

Spoiler: Overwatch and Tracer 'Hate'

Starting off small, there would be a clear difference here.

One is an iconic series that is a big Japan pick that also has seen recent success on a huge scale in the West.

The other is Overwatch.

Tracer =/= Hero even in the sense, as you cannot compare the series to each other in the slightest. Dragon Quest isn't just a shill pick, whereas an Overwatch character couldn't be anything else BUT a shill pick...and by that I mean Blizzard someone offered Nintendo so much money that Nintendo dropped their morals.



Overwatch is not relevant. If Blizzard would let it die, it would. This may be anecdotal, but it's also still proof.

Back when Overwatch was still big, literally everyone I knew had a copy and was playing. Even my old roommate played it, and he was known for only playing JRPGs and Smash. It wasn't too long though before it died out, mainly due to Blizzard's lack of listening to the fanbase but also due to the dev team having members with god complexes and trying harder to appeal to those outside your demographic than to those within it. We've seen enough of this recently to know what happens.

Regardless, it's nowhere near where it was before and it keeps fading.



There is a difference between us getting hate for truly loving our character and supporting him and not wanting Tracer because of what she represents. In case you are wondering...

She represents many things outside of just herself. She represents her game and the genre, which is a dead genre and a game on life-support, so as I said earlier her inclusion would be nothing short of everyone knowing that Nintendo made big bank off of Blizzard. She represents Esports on a level that Smash has never obtained, both in popularity (albeit brief) and toxicity. The fans that would come with her would make this awkward dent in the Smash community as they bring in their baggage and their attitude and I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but the community has enough of it's own drama without including more. As bad as Smash fans can get, it's usually all outside of the game, not in game. Now imagine all the Overwatch players who come over and bring their in-game attitude to Smash. I never thought I would be glad that Nintendo's voice chat option was so out-of-touch...

This one will ignite some fires I'm sure, but she would also represent her orientation. To be clear, I'm not declaring anything about her orientation on it's own merits (other than how tacked on it felt), but you can be sure her being the first character in Smash to openly be of said orientation would be a big deal in more ways than one and would garner a whole new ball to add to this juggle session (remember, got a feather removed because people got overly upset over something so minute. Imagine if people felt Tracer wasn't 'good enough' or that she wasn't 'represented properly' or how upset they could get if she ended up being middle tier?).

She also represents controversy about her from within her own game, forget what could spawn from Smash. She also represents a company that Smash fans seemingly very much dislike, which makes a lot of sense when you compare Nintendo to Blizzard ("You all have phones, don't you?!" and "You don't want that. You think that you want that, but you really don't want that." come to mind immediately).

There is probably more I missed, but if you could somehow erase ALL of that baggage and someone magically make her a part of a game that was better in every way and from a company that was much better...I think she could easily work in Smash. I think she has enough potential in her moveset to whip up something, and having a character with time-wimey abilities in Smash that were less passive than would be pretty cool...but I must say Tracer really isn't all that wanted by the community. Once again, not that she isn't wanted at all (as you yourself are proof enough and I know there would be others) but she's not on the same scale as others, and if she got in before any of the other big names I would be livid.



To sum it up best, there is a difference between having a fanbase's toxicity revolve around them, and having a fanbase's toxicity encompass their game. One can seem ungrateful and irritating and irrational and rude...and the other has all this AND acts like this in-game. It's a part of Overwatch's basic community now and you can encounter it in way too many of the matches you play.

Smash is lucky enough to have something most games don't have: a clear line in the sand between casuals and competitive players, on which side each can enjoy the game. Overwatch is for aggressive competitive players only and the experience shows.

Also, this isn't really hypocritical for Geno fans to not want Tracer or anything Overwatch in Smash. It's on the same level as not wanting anything Fortnite or Apex Legends in Smash: there are bigger fan picks that have been asked for for LITERAL years, over a DECADE now, and having characters from games that will be dead and forgotten in due time that are made just to rake in cash and made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs is a slap in the face. I tried coming up with analogies that would be less direct but I just can't think of one that works well enough, so I'll just have to leave that sting in there.

All this said, feel free to enjoy the game and feel free to want Tracer to make it into Smash. Just because others don't like something doesn't mean you have to stop, and you can like Tracer and still want Geno. I would never hate on you for a character you want or a game you love because that just doesn't make sense. All I ask is that if I can respect the fact that you like Overwatch and would love to play as Tracer in Smash, that you can respect the fact that Tracer being part of the Fighter Pass is one of the few things on my list that would make me not buy Ultimate and wait for the next entry without her in it from the sheer anger at Nintendo for dropping not just the ball but the whole goddamn court in my opinion.

I mean Dante is up there for sure but at this point I think it’s a fair bet we’re getting a female character of some kind and RE tops Devil May Cry in terms of longevity. Your mileage may vary but as far as Capcom’s top 3 iconic franchises I’d say it goes Mega Man, Street Fighter, and then Resident Evil. I think that’s why a lot of people are guessing RE over DMC for the next hypothetical Capcom rep.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Also, I'm going to be a bit negative about Overwatch, and many of my quotes are thoseof MissingGlitch MissingGlitch so I want to say up front that this isn't targeting or hate or anything towards her as she is pretty dope and one of the few people I pay attention to on Twitter...and I hate Twitter, so hopefully I made it clear that means something. But before I address that, to some other posts first.

Thanks for adding this part. Because I am really not taking this whole situation well. I haven't felt like this since the peak of Steveposting. And this all seems more widespread than Steveposting.

 

[ForsakenM]

I mean Dante is up there for sure but at this point I think it’s a fair bet we’re getting a female character of some kind and RE tops Devil May Cry in terms of longevity. Your mileage may vary but as far as Capcom’s top 3 iconic franchises I’d say it goes Mega Man, Street Fighter, and then Resident Evil. I think that’s why a lot of people are guessing RE over DMC for the next hypothetical Capcom rep.

I'm down with Jill, but it has to be the right Kill. None of this blonde ponytail skin-tight 80s spy suit while being controlled buy the badguy Jill.

I need "I'm a member of STARS!" Jill.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'm down with Jill, but it has to be the right Kill. None of this blonde ponytail skin-tight 80s spy suit while being controlled buy the badguy Jill.

I need "I'm a member of STARS!" Jill.

I was expecting a Jill sandwich joke.

I'm crushed, man. Crushed.

 

[MissingGlitch]

And here I am still hoping the Capcom rep is Phoenix.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I may pass out before I finish this, what with 6AM coming so quick an all, but oh well.

Also, I'm going to be a bit negative about Overwatch, and many of my quotes are thoseof MissingGlitch so I want to say up front that this isn't targeting or hate or anything towards her as she is pretty dope and one of the few people I pay attention to on Twitter...and I hate Twitter, so hopefully I made it clear that means something. But before I address that, to some other posts first.



Looks like someone forgot about Dante. Would love to see motorcycle, but it would obviously be classic Dante if he got in.

Also Capcom has a plethora of iconic characters, even if they themselves forgot about them.



Jesus.

So first off, you need to get over the idea of Disney or Blizzard taking over Smash. For some reason you keep thinking that a character from either company getting in equals them screwing up Smash.

Nintendo is a goddamn titan. Disney has no stock in the video game market and is slowly ruining their movie franchises along the way, and Blizzard is a joke in comparison to Nintendo. Nintendo has full control over Smash and has the most pull in any talks. This is about Nintendo coming to YOU and saying 'We want to put your character in Smash, and we will make sure it's the best version and make it like how fans want.' If either of these companies tried to pull any bull****, Nintendo/Sora Ltd would just turn around and walk out and talk about the experience later in an interview.

Seriously, just because you don't like some of the things a company does or the characters they own doesn't mean you need to act like they are Freiza-sama coming to take over Nintendo or something. Also, don't forget what it means to be the biggest face of Operation Starfall and having outsiders see you slandering characters with hate. You can talk about not likely a character, but in all honesty you go in a but too hard when you do, so maybe just reign it in a bit?

Now time for me to prove the old adage 'Do as I say, not as I do.'

EDIT: You will need to replace the word 'someone' with 'some how' in a couple of places here. I'm dying so as to resurrect at 6 and I can't focus well enough to find them all I'm sorry.

Spoiler: Overwatch and Tracer 'Hate'

Starting off small, there would be a clear difference here.

One is an iconic series that is a big Japan pick that also has seen recent success on a huge scale in the West.

The other is Overwatch.

Tracer =/= Hero even in the sense, as you cannot compare the series to each other in the slightest. Dragon Quest isn't just a shill pick, whereas an Overwatch character couldn't be anything else BUT a shill pick...and by that I mean Blizzard someone offered Nintendo so much money that Nintendo dropped their morals.



Overwatch is not relevant. If Blizzard would let it die, it would. This may be anecdotal, but it's also still proof.

Back when Overwatch was still big, literally everyone I knew had a copy and was playing. Even my old roommate played it, and he was known for only playing JRPGs and Smash. It wasn't too long though before it died out, mainly due to Blizzard's lack of listening to the fanbase but also due to the dev team having members with god complexes and trying harder to appeal to those outside your demographic than to those within it. We've seen enough of this recently to know what happens.

Regardless, it's nowhere near where it was before and it keeps fading.



There is a difference between us getting hate for truly loving our character and supporting him and not wanting Tracer because of what she represents. In case you are wondering...

She represents many things outside of just herself. She represents her game and the genre, which is a dead genre and a game on life-support, so as I said earlier her inclusion would be nothing short of everyone knowing that Nintendo made big bank off of Blizzard. She represents Esports on a level that Smash has never obtained, both in popularity (albeit brief) and toxicity. The fans that would come with her would make this awkward dent in the Smash community as they bring in their baggage and their attitude and I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but the community has enough of it's own drama without including more. As bad as Smash fans can get, it's usually all outside of the game, not in game. Now imagine all the Overwatch players who come over and bring their in-game attitude to Smash. I never thought I would be glad that Nintendo's voice chat option was so out-of-touch...

This one will ignite some fires I'm sure, but she would also represent her orientation. To be clear, I'm not declaring anything about her orientation on it's own merits (other than how tacked on it felt), but you can be sure her being the first character in Smash to openly be of said orientation would be a big deal in more ways than one and would garner a whole new ball to add to this juggle session (remember, got a feather removed because people got overly upset over something so minute. Imagine if people felt Tracer wasn't 'good enough' or that she wasn't 'represented properly' or how upset they could get if she ended up being middle tier?).

She also represents controversy about her from within her own game, forget what could spawn from Smash. She also represents a company that Smash fans seemingly very much dislike, which makes a lot of sense when you compare Nintendo to Blizzard ("You all have phones, don't you?!" and "You don't want that. You think that you want that, but you really don't want that." come to mind immediately).

There is probably more I missed, but if you could somehow erase ALL of that baggage and someone magically make her a part of a game that was better in every way and from a company that was much better...I think she could easily work in Smash. I think she has enough potential in her moveset to whip up something, and having a character with time-wimey abilities in Smash that were less passive than would be pretty cool...but I must say Tracer really isn't all that wanted by the community. Once again, not that she isn't wanted at all (as you yourself are proof enough and I know there would be others) but she's not on the same scale as others, and if she got in before any of the other big names I would be livid.



To sum it up best, there is a difference between having a fanbase's toxicity revolve around them, and having a fanbase's toxicity encompass their game. One can seem ungrateful and irritating and irrational and rude...and the other has all this AND acts like this in-game. It's a part of Overwatch's basic community now and you can encounter it in way too many of the matches you play.

Smash is lucky enough to have something most games don't have: a clear line in the sand between casuals and competitive players, on which side each can enjoy the game. Overwatch is for aggressive competitive players only and the experience shows.

Also, this isn't really hypocritical for Geno fans to not want Tracer or anything Overwatch in Smash. It's on the same level as not wanting anything Fortnite or Apex Legends in Smash: there are bigger fan picks that have been asked for for LITERAL years, over a DECADE now, and having characters from games that will be dead and forgotten in due time that are made just to rake in cash and made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs is a slap in the face. I tried coming up with analogies that would be less direct but I just can't think of one that works well enough, so I'll just have to leave that sting in there.

All this said, feel free to enjoy the game and feel free to want Tracer to make it into Smash. Just because others don't like something doesn't mean you have to stop, and you can like Tracer and still want Geno. I would never hate on you for a character you want or a game you love because that just doesn't make sense. All I ask is that if I can respect the fact that you like Overwatch and would love to play as Tracer in Smash, that you can respect the fact that Tracer being part of the Fighter Pass is one of the few things on my list that would make me not buy Ultimate and wait for the next entry without her in it from the sheer anger at Nintendo for dropping not just the ball but the whole goddamn court in my opinion.

Personally, I'm not for Tracer being in Smash, because I feel she'd only get in due to being the mascot character. While normally a character getting in because they're the mascot of a game isn't typically an issue, it is in the case of Tracer for me because she is among the least interesting characters in the cast of Overwatch (Doesn't really say much since Overwatch's cast is relatively creative).

Specifically in regards to appearing in Smash, she doesn't fit very well in my mind. I'm sure Sakurai and his team could make it work, but I'd rather see a number of other characters come first: Doomfist, Reinhardt, Genji, McCree, Roadhog, Junkrat, and even Brigitte are more interesting and better built for Smash than Tracer is. (Well, probably not McCree, I'm just really biased in favor of that character).

Now, in regards to Dante, I have a soft spot for that guy and would love to see him in the game. Specifically his DMC5 version. Holy smokes what a cool character. If anyone saw that recent Source Gaming video on Dante's moveset, I think they missed the mark. I think his moves would need to be tooled around his different Styles (the four from DMC5). Of course, following this through to the deepest level makes Dante a character that is essentially Shulk, Cloud, Bayonetta, and Joker all put into a blender and hitting frappé.

In regards to an RE character, I'd pick Leon over Jill. (Yes, I am one of those) But if it HAD to be Jill, I'd take her RE3 version, which was just recently revamped and reused for Teppen:

"You want Starlings? I'll give you Starlings."

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

It's perfectly ok for people to want tracer in smash. But on the same token, it's perfectly ok for me to NOT want tracer in smash. I love overwatch, I play it a lot, but there are bigger characters I want for smash.

Entirely agreed. That being said, yeah, I really feel as though I ought to apologize again for being especially abrasive about OW earlier. My opinions are mine alone, and that doesn't mean that Tracer is an inherently bad idea. I respect whoever wants her, I really do, and that respect ought to show in how I behave around her fans. I'll take that L.

So, uh... by the way... Forgot to mention that I'm working on a huge character sheet going in great detail about how my interpretation of Geno is, from every big quality down to the smaller ones, concept stuff, etc., so... uh. Look forward to that? I guess??

*looking forward to it intensifies*

 

[ForsakenM]

Thanks for adding this part. Because I am really not taking this whole situation well. I haven't felt like this since the peak of Steveposting. And this all seems more widespread than Steveposting.

Yeah I just wanted to make it clear. I don't really hate Overwatch or Tracer, but I don't enjoy the game and the community is typical of a competitive shooting game so I take a hard pass. I DO have major issues with Blizzard and the people who work there though.

Like I've said with other picks, there are too many that need to happen before things like this can happen. I've been supporting and waiting too long for my blue puppet boi to get upstaged by some zippy-zappy British gal with time-wimey technomagic shenanigans...and the same would go with any pick from a recent game that would feel that off.

I was expecting a Jill sandwich joke.

I'm crushed, man. Crushed.

Not as much as Jill almost was when she nearly became a Jill sandwich.

 

[Deleted member]

And here I am still hoping the Capcom rep is Phoenix.

Hey I'm with ya on that one chief. I'd love for Phoenix Wright to be in Smash and he's my preferred Capcom rep. Ace Attorney is great and so is Phoenix though I don't really care who's in as long as Geno is one of the final two characters.

 

[xpnc]

In regards to an RE character, I'd pick Leon over Jill. (Yes, I am one of those) But if it HAD to be Jill, I'd take her RE3 version, which was just recently revamped and reused for Teppen:

Nah it's gotta be MvC 2 Jill.

Spoiler: Big image

I don't think we'll be seeing another Capcom character this game, though. With Geno in, it'll be 3 Capcom, 3 Sega, 3 Konami, 3 Square Enix, and then wildcards. Those 4 are basically the traditional titans of Japanese gaming as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Regarding Tracer, I have nothing against her and with her abilities in Overwatch she could make for a really cool character, but didn't Blizzard say that if they were to get a character in Smash it would be Diablo or something along those lines? That kind of raises a red flag there.

This one will ignite some fires I'm sure, but she would also represent her orientation. To be clear, I'm not declaring anything about her orientation on it's own merits (other than how tacked on it felt), but you can be sure her being the first character in Smash to openly be of said orientation would be a big deal in more ways than one and would garner a whole new ball to add to this juggle session (remember, got a feather removed because people got overly upset over something so minute. Imagine if people felt Tracer wasn't 'good enough' or that she wasn't 'represented properly' or how upset they could get if she ended up being middle tier?).

I'm got gonna argue about your opinions on Tracer because that boils down to personal taste, but this is a REALLY petty reason to not want her imo. Not only is that a non-issue (we get people who want their favorite character to be top tier all the time so why is this any different?), but this is also portraying the LGBT+ community in a pretty bad light assuming everyone would go up in arms over this kind of thing, and I cannot get behind that. I'm sure there would be at least a few extremists that would be upset about that kind of thing but those kind of people are everywhere and should be ignored.

(this is also why I feel the whole Mr. Game & Watch situation was blown out of proportion, not saying the feather shouldn't have been removed necessarily but it was a BIG overreaction imo)

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It's perfectly ok for people to want tracer in smash. But on the same token, it's perfectly ok for me to NOT want tracer in smash. I love overwatch, I play it a lot, but there are bigger characters I want for smash.


*looking forward to it intensifies*

What does bigger characters mean? Overwatch had a reported 40 million players last year and the game just crossed $1 billion in profit from in-game spending in July of this year (https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/overwatch-in-game-spending-tops-1-billion/). That’s the kind of stuff that puts you in a league only occupied by a select few (I mean it’s the 64th game to cross a billion, but still).

And that’s why Overwatch isn’t dying as people would have you believe. It’s still making profit from in-game transactions even if the player base isn’t expanding as rapidly as it once did and isn’t at peak levels. It’s games as a service model in all of its essence with regular character and content drops alongside events to pull players back in from time to time. Anecdotally, I’ve gotten back into the game and I know several friends who still play it and have seen people still love and enjoy it. There’s no reason for Activision Blizzard to “just let the game die” when it’s still pulling in profits and standing as one of their major brands, especially for how little investment they have to put in the game. Again, it’s not as big as it once was, but it’s entirely possible to see a resurgence and certainly isn’t dead or close to dead.

I have always really liked the idea of Tracer in Smash, full disclosure, but figured it wouldn’t happen because Overwatch wasn’t anywhere near Switch, but now this changes the game up a little. She’s not my most requested, but Overwatch is a really cool and deep universe that has made some wonderfully charming characters that have endeared themselves to a lot of people. It’s a honestly a really cool idea to bring something like that into Smash beyond “cynical business reasons” or whatever have you and potentially does bring some new people to Smash (I mean, Overwatch is a bright, colorful, character driven FPS and Smash is a bright, colorful, fighting game (-ish), seems like some overlap could easily happen). Not to mention having a full on lesbian character is really cool no matter how damn cynical you may be about that specific topic.

Does Overwatch on Switch mean Tracer is a lock? Of ****ing course not. But it’s nice to see her in the conversation if only for a short time and she’s actually quite a cool character if you really look into her. It’s nice to be able to entertain the notion of her.

 

[wynn728]

You do realize these games were in production before 2017 and that Sakurai has confirmed access to titles and concepts in development, right? There's no reason Sakurai couldn't see these games and decide to do something with them. Hell, that's how we got Spring Man as an assist trophy in the first place.

Yeah I get that, but Sakurai said that Rex & ARMS couldn't get in due to how new they were for the base game and DLC is different. But it's still messed up if a later game character from get in and Rex & ARMS are forever screwed out of Smash Bros Ultimate.

 

[ZelDan]

Overwatch is up there as one of my favorite games in recent years, so I'd actually be okay with Tracer being in Smash. It'd also definitely be something to see a lesbian character make it into Smash.

One concern I have about Overwatch being in Smash is honestly music. Now I have nothing against OW's soundtrack, it works well within the context of OW, I just don't feel it would be as good as a fit for Smash Bros? not without some serious remixing atleast. Not saying it would be impossible to make work or anything, just honestly curious how Sakurai would work that out or what kind of music would actually get into Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Spoiler: Overwatch and Tracer 'Hate'

Smash is lucky enough to have something most games don't have: a clear line in the sand between casuals and competitive players, on which side each can enjoy the game. Overwatch is for aggressive competitive players only and the experience shows.

Also, this isn't really hypocritical for Geno fans to not want Tracer or anything Overwatch in Smash. It's on the same level as not wanting anything Fortnite or Apex Legends in Smash: there are bigger fan picks that have been asked for for LITERAL years, over a DECADE now, and having characters from games that will be dead and forgotten in due time that are made just to rake in cash and made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs is a slap in the face. I tried coming up with analogies that would be less direct but I just can't think of one that works well enough, so I'll just have to leave that sting in there.

First off, the statement on Overwatch "only being for aggressive competitive players" is horribly inaccurate and it wouldn't have been able to achieve the kind of popularity it has if that were the case.

I also feel like you're missing the irony of saying a "character from a game that will be dead and forgotten in a due time" in a thread like this where the exact character we want has been dead and forgotten for ages. Overwatch will be as remembered (probably way more so in all honesty given the size of the player base) as Geno still is (also, see Banjo & Kazooie, King K. Rool, etc.). There's a seriously good chance that Activision Blizzard will try to do more with the Overwatch brand and it won't just end so quickly for one, and for two, video games come and go but a great many characters are still remembered years down the line. We directly prove that this isn't such an easy thing to do (I suspect people like me and MissingGlitch will certainly remember Overwatch fondly in the future).

And just a reminder. We're not really entitled to characters just because we've supported them for a while over other characters. There's an extremely long list of characters who got in before fan demands and that list will keep growing. When Sakurai starts looking at including another fan request, sure, there's more reason to bring that up (though the size and vocalness of the fan base are far more important factors even in that decision), but as we know entirely too well, characters get picked for an extremely wide variety of reasons. It's just how Smash is done at the end of the day. They've included a lot of characters for us (the "fans") in Ultimate, so it's not like they haven't been listening to us or ignoring us, quite the opposite in a lot of ways and sometimes they're going to appeal to people who aren't "us." I understand that may be more frustrating given the Fighter's Pass only has one for "us" right now, but they've specifically outlined multiple times they want to bring in new people to Smash, so I can't really call it surprising.

made by greedy companies with egotistical and morally-questionable devs

Looks at Capcom, Konami, Square-Enix, Bandai-Namco, and Microsoft:

 

[REZERO]

Overwatch isnt nearly as competitive as Dota 2 or League is. Its honestly a pretty casual game.

 

[ZelDan]

Overwatch isnt nearly as competitive as Dota 2 or League is. Its honestly a pretty casual game.

Overwatch has an entire dedicated competitive league dedicated to it with teams and huge prizes. I'd say that's pretty damn competitive.

Whether it is a GOOD competitive game or a bad one is a whole other discussion, but OW is pretty clearly competitive at this point

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

The problem here is not that you don't want Tracer (I am not a fan of the design and haven't played Overwatch) the problem is how hypocritical you are.

"Overwatch is not the best selling franchise of Blizzard, therefore has no chance of being represented" Yet you support a SMRPG character instead of a better selling SE franchise

"Blizzard is such a bad company with negative values" yet most of you want Doom and support Bethesda! (This one killed me)

"There were no hints for Tracer, there is no way she is coming" True, we totally expected Joker! wait... anyhow, Hero was so obvious even before it was datamined... maybe? atleast Banjo was totally hinted by Grant Kirkhope... totally.

The fact that Tracer is an LGBTQ+ character is unique enough to "justify" an inclusion, is ridiculous that in an 80 character roster, there is no one that represents the community.

People saying that "everyone exaggerates cause this doesn't mean a character will be in Smash" really are paranoic, LITERALLY no one in this forum has said that, people are just speculating (i am glad people finally started talking about someone else) This was even more ridiculous when in this thread, even a music claim, confirms Geno is coming without a doubt, i am pretty sure most of the people that supported the idea of Tracer in this forum don't even think she has a good chance of appearing in Smash, so all this absurd manipulation of information is making people angry.

The reason i wouldn't be excited about Tracer is because i like more feminine characters, but i would not discredit Overwatch or Blizzard at all just because i don't want that specific game represented.

"Overwatch has not died because Blizzard doesn’t let it happen" Why is that even bad? Would you not had preferred SE to keep supporting SMRPG instead of letting it die?

 

[SSGuy]

Overwatch isnt nearly as competitive as Dota 2 or League is. Its honestly a pretty casual game.

Yes and no. Blizzard puts a lot of money into it's competitive league actually having sanctioned teams from different cities play against one another. Something I wish was done a few years earlier.

*cries in TF2 player*

 

[Tree Gelbman]

We have LGBTQ characters in Smash already. So Tracer shouldn't get in on that merit. No one should. It should be about what they bring to the game in playstyle and if they bring something new, unique, and fun.

Tracer could do that and Overwatch is one of the biggest FPS shooters in history, so if she got in. It'd be deserved I'm sure.

Honestly, there's not a single rumored character right now that isn't deserving of Smash because of either potential play style or the merits they have to them.

And that's the tea (featuring Adore Delano).

 

[Luis27]

>Femenine Character

>Starling

>Its eldelgard.

It was a honor to be in this ship with you, bros.

 

[Ovaltine]

The problem here is not that you don't want Tracer (I am not a fan of the design and haven't played Overwatch) the problem is how hypocritical you are.

"Overwatch is not the best selling franchise of Blizzard, therefore has no chance of being represented" Yet you support a SMRPG character instead of a better selling SE franchise

"Blizzard is such a bad company with negative values" yet most of you want Doom and support Bethesda! (This one killed me)

"There were no hints for Tracer, there is no way she is coming" True, we totally expected Joker! wait... anyhow, Hero was so obvious even before it was datamined... maybe? atleast Banjo was totally hinted by Grant Kirkhope... totally.

The fact that Tracer is an LGBTQ+ character is unique enough to "justify" an inclusion, is ridiculous that in an 80 character roster, there is no one that represents the community.

People saying that "everyone exaggerates cause this doesn't mean a character will be in Smash" really are paranoic, LITERALLY no one in this forum has said that, people are just speculating (i am glad people finally started talking about someone else) This was even more ridiculous when in this thread, even a music claim, confirms Geno is coming without a doubt, i am pretty sure most of the people that supported the idea of Tracer in this forum don't even think she has a good chance of appearing in Smash, so all this absurd manipulation of information is making people angry.

The reason i wouldn't be excited about Tracer is because i like more feminine characters, but i would not discredit Overwatch or Blizzard at all
just because i don't want that specific game represented. "Overwatch has not died because Blizzard doesn’t let it happen" Why is that even bad? Would you not had preferred SE to keep supporting SMRPG instead of letting it die?

I agree with most of the points here (especially the first one, like c'mon, we're all here wanting Geno as opposed to, like, Lara Croft or Sora), but... when it comes to the music claim, very few people are certain that Geno is coming, and even fewer, if any, believed so because of the music claim. That's a gross exaggeration and manipulation of information to combat gross exaggerations and manipulation of information. Two wrongs don't make a right there.

(Also your font legitimately hurts my eyes, and I say that as someone who adores pink and has almost perfect vision. Owwie.)

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

“Ah neat 5 pages to read through today, must be some interesting stuff going on”

Its 5 pages of Overwatch/Tracer discussion

Welp guess we’ll try again another day see y’all tomorrow!

 

[ZelDan]

We have LGBTQ characters in Smash already. So Tracer shouldn't get in on that merit. No one should. It should be about what they bring to the game in playstyle and if they bring something new, unique, and fun.

Tracer could do that and Overwatch is one of the biggest FPS shooters in history, so if she got in. It'd be deserved I'm sure.

Honestly, there's not a single rumored character right now that isn't deserving of Smash because of either potential play style or the merits they have to them.

And that's the tea (featuring Adore Delano).

We have LGBTQ characters already? Only thing that comes to mind is I think Corrin, since I think that game allowed same-sex marriage? but AFAIK they aren't canonically LGBTQ or they have the option be straight (I've never played Fates so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this stuff by all means). Outside of him/her I don't know who else fits that bill.

And for what it's worth I didn't say that Tracer should get in solely for being lesbian, and obviously she should get in first and foremost because of Overwatch's large success. I just that it'd be neat for her to get in because, as far as I know, I don't think we have an LGBTQ character, or not one who is canonically always that way anyways. I don't know if that first comment was directed at me, but figured I'd specify.

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm down with Jill, but it has to be the right Kill. None of this blonde ponytail skin-tight 80s spy suit while being controlled buy the badguy Jill.

I need "I'm a member of STARS!" Jill.

Oh yeah of course. That’s her most iconic look. I feel like blonde Jill stopped being a thing that was pushed as much after MvC3.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

We have LGBTQ characters in Smash already. So Tracer shouldn't get in on that merit. No one should. It should be about what they bring to the game in playstyle and if they bring something new, unique, and fun.

Tracer could do that and Overwatch is one of the biggest FPS shooters in history, so if she got in. It'd be deserved I'm sure.

Honestly, there's not a single rumored character right now that isn't deserving of Smash because of either potential play style or the merits they have to them.

And that's the tea (featuring Adore Delano).

I mean, the existing LGBTQ+ characters in the game are avatars that you can dictate their specific preferences with extremely limited options on that front, so I wouldn't really say that "We have LGBTQ+ characters in Smash already." It's a much more substantial move to add a character that is 100% canonically portrayed as lesbian. Not that I think we should be basing character additions around those sorts of ideas necessarily. Smash is first and foremost about the crossover aspect, but I do think representation is important and I've become much more open to options that add cool characters AND meaningful representation in the same motion.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean, the existing LGBTQ+ characters in the game are avatars that you can dictate their specific preferences with extremely limited options on that front, so I wouldn't really say that "We have LGBTQ+ characters in Smash already." It's a much more substantial move to add a character that is 100% canonically portrayed as lesbian. Not that I think we should be basing character additions around those sorts of ideas necessarily. Smash is first and foremost about the crossover aspect, but I do think representation is important and I've become much more open to options that add cool characters AND meaningful representation in the same motion.

Bayonetta is bisexual home skillet and not an avatar character.

 

[ZelDan]

Bayonetta is bisexual home skillet and not an avatar character.

Has that ever been explicitly said or confirmed in some way? Obviously Bayonetta cares alot about Jeanne but I don't recall anything in the games pointing towards them being anything more than just very close friends.

 

[REZERO]

Overwatch has an entire dedicated competitive league dedicated to it with teams and huge prizes. I'd say that's pretty damn competitive.

Whether it is a GOOD competitive game or a bad one is a whole other discussion, but OW is pretty clearly competitive at this point

I mean the nature of the game is competitive but no one thinks about esports when they think of overwatch. The competitive scene is so small compared to other games out there. Its pretty casual as in: you can pick it up with a few friends very quickly. Unlike in some games where the skillfloor is very high.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Has that ever been explicitly said or confirmed in some way? Obviously Bayonetta cares alot about Jeanne but I don't recall anything in the games pointing towards them being anything more than just very close friends.

She flirts with men and women equally in both games. They've intentionally left her relationship with Jeanne open to interpretation, but you can tell it leans more romantic in some scenes than others. I've seen some intense friendships, but the entire plot of Bayonetta 2 is pretty gay. Including a ''PLEASE WAKE UP!" trope scene with Jeanne in Bayo's arms that is typically reserved for lovers.

She also has a line in the first game to a character while flirting with men that vaguely implies she's also into women. It's been a while since I've played it, but I distinctly remember it implying a love of both genders.

 

[ZelDan]

She flirts with men and women equally in both games. They've intentionally left her relationship with Jeanne open to interpretation, but you can tell it leans more romantic in some scenes than others. I've seen some intense friendships, but the entire plot of Bayonetta 2 is pretty gay. Including a ''PLEASE WAKE UP!" trope scene with Jeanne in Bayo's arms that is typically reserved for lovers.

She also has a line in the first game to a character while flirting with men that vaguely implies she's also into women. It's been a while since I've played it, but I distinctly remember it implying a love of both genders.

It's been a while since I've played as well so I can't really confirm or deny any of this. I think I vaguely remember some of it and do kinda remember the scene between Bayo and Jeanne after the Alraune fight so I could certainly see Bayonetta swinging for both teams.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Bayonetta is bisexual home skillet and not an avatar character.

Bayonetta is not canonically bisexual. You can try to infer the subtext all you want, but she's not presented as a bisexual character. Rather, she's presented as someone who uses her sexuality as a tool with almost everyone. I don't think her relationship with Jeanne has to be inherently sexual in nature either and can just be a genuinely deep bond between two people (which is honestly a more refreshing take, far too often two characters that are paired up in media end up in a relationship which distorts the reality of just being really damn close to people you care about, but not romantically interested). I don't think there's any particular special subtext to say that she is bisexual. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if she was because it fits with how she uses her sexuality, but Platinum doesn't really make any effort to make her a bisexual character and that's kind of an important distinction.

Blizzard has 100% committed to Tracer being a lesbian character and has no reservations about portraying her as such. There's no implication or subtext or specific reading required, just direct and meaningful acknowledgement that this character is a lesbian. Which is a much more powerful statement of LGBTQ+ support than "Well, this character could be bisexual, but we didn't really write them as such or put any effort into depicting such an identity."

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Peach kisses Toadette if you beat the game as her in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

Take that for what you will.

 

[wynn728]

After some time with Three Houses I can't possibly see them putting one of the house leader over the other. Each one have such great importance within the story where it feels like you need to include all three of them into Smash Bros (that's not an invitation... yet. Both Claude, Edelgard and Dimitri would be great unique fighters but that's too much).

Honestly it has to be Byleth that gets in if a Three Houses character were chosen. This ain't like Pokemon, these are fully developed characters and Byleth is the safest choice for a Fighter character. There would be bloodshed if two of the house leaders were excluded, especially with how Claude jumped up super high in character love over the past month.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean subtext is a CRUCIAL part of story telling. It is often planted there intentionally by writers.

Take that from what you will, but lol, people really want Bayonetta to be straight for some reason when it's quite obvious she isn't.

 

[xpnc]

The fact that Tracer is an LGBTQ+ character is unique enough to "justify" an inclusion, is ridiculous that in an 80 character roster, there is no one that represents the community.

I thank God every day that Nintendo is a Japanese company

 

[Geno Boost]

Hello once again i just came back home from millitary and now i bring you my next SMRPG 3D model Axem Green!
there is something i also something i noticed while making the Axem rangers models Axem Red and Axem Black and Axem Pink are all right handed while Axem Yellow and Axem Green are left handed

more renders

Spoiler

The only one left to model is Axem Pink hmmmm.......