Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

I agree that would be awesome but nothing more than that. I really enjoy Hero but I don't think RNG should be used for another character beyond what you've stated.

 

[Ze Diglett]

The character actually does what Minecraft is about. Screw the "perfectly fine as a stage" concept, a character could get in and y'all wouldn't care anyway; it really feels like gatekeeping, a character is always the best form of representation unless it's something like Tetris (though I wouldn't mind some made-up Tetris fighter, either, to be honest).

Hard disagree. I'm in the minority that believes that a character isn't always the best way to represent a game or series, and I honestly find the mentality that it is to be overly one-track and myopic. If it's a game that doesn't have many (or any) defined characters, for instance, it might be better represented with a boss or a stage, and that's not a bad thing. Treating characters as the unconditional end-all-be-all of Smash representation is just unhealthy in my opinion. Stages, bosses, ATs, and the like do matter too, believe it or not, even if they're not the very first thing your mind jumps to when you think "Smash".

 

[TheCJBrine]

Hard disagree. I'm in the minority that believes that a character isn't always the best way to represent a game or series, and I honestly find the mentality that it is to be overly one-track and myopic. If it's a game that doesn't have many (or any) defined characters, for instance, it might be better represented with a boss or a stage, and that's not a bad thing. Treating characters as the unconditional end-all-be-all of Smash representation is just unhealthy in my opinion. Stages, bosses, ATs, and the like do matter too, believe it or not, even if they're not the very first thing your mind jumps to when you think "Smash".

That's why I said "unless it's something like Tetris."

Steve and Alex are at least characters in their own fashion and what the player does is literally what the game is about. We don't need a character for stuff like Tetris, but Minecraft, Monster Hunter, etc. can fit as much as Animal Crossing if not better. To be honest, we don't really "need" any new franchise/character, people just want them, so the argument typically just feels like gatekeeping when it isn't Tetris or whatever.

 

[wynn728]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

NO!!!!!! NO MORE RNG!
AMD besides Geno Whirl wasn't decided by RNG, it was decided by tlwhen you press the button.

 

[GrungeMan]

I was thinking today that I would really like it if Geno Whirl was simply a projectile version of Jigglypuff's rest, whereby you throw it out and there is a very specific moment in which the hurtbox from the Whirl overlaps with the character's hitbox and if you press B precisely at that moment, then you'll land a hit that is as strong as (or stronger) than Puff's rest.

If Geno Whirl was nuetral B, than you could press it once to send it across the stage and then again right as it connects with your opponent. If you keep pressing B while the Whirl is out, then nothing will happen and you can't send out another Whirl until the previous Whirl connected/vanished from the screen. An untimed Whirl could simply land a measly 5-10% or something.

As someone who secondaries Jigglypuff, I feel like this would be a really fair set-up and not all that broken at all. It's not like rest is the easiest move to land and having Geno Whirl as a "projectile rest" would actually be very hard to land unless you are particularly good at reading people and even then it would be a challenge.

 

[MisterMike]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

Can we make it a rule that we cannot link to 4chan "leaks" unless there's sound reasoning to believe that they may have some legitimacy? Because I am getting SO sick and tired of people posting this kind of **** here. They're mostly bull**** and don't deserve our attention whatsoever, but someone ALWAYS ends up posting them here because "A lot of the stuff listed here makes sense!" Of course it's gonna sound like it makes sense, BECAUSE IT'S ALL THE **** WE'VE BEEN THEORIZING ABOUT FOR MONTHS BEING REGURGITATED BACK AT US!

 

[OrpheusTelos]

It's the same old same old in terms of Smash. Doom Slayer this, Doom Slayer that.

It really does feel like these leaks are being made from a template. Mention Doomdude, say he has his original and Eternal designs as alts, add whichever other character people are talking about, and you've got 90% of current Smash leaks. It's not even an Erdrick situation where there's concrete proof for his inclusion, people are just latching onto him for no reason other than Doom Eternal coming out and Bethesda mentioning Smash once. He doesn't have anything going for him that any other character already doesn't, but he's the hot meme right now so everyone's gotta jump on that bandwagon

I was thinking today that I would really like it if Geno Whirl was simply a projectile version of Jigglypuff's rest, whereby you throw it out and there is a very specific moment in which the hurtbox from the Whirl overlaps with the character's hitbox and if you press B precisely at that moment, then you'll land a hit that is as strong as (or stronger) than Puff's rest.

If Geno Whirl was nuetral B, than you could press it once to send it across the stage and then again right as it connects with your opponent. If you keep pressing B while the Whirl is out, then nothing will happen and you can't send out another Whirl until the previous Whirl connected/vanished from the screen. An untimed Whirl could simply land a measly 5-10% or something.

As someone who secondaries Jigglypuff, I feel like this would be a really fair set-up and not all that broken at all. It's not like rest is the easiest move to land and having Geno Whirl as a "projectile rest" would actually be very hard to land unless you are particularly good at reading people and even then it would be a challenge.

I actually think that's a pretty neat idea. I really like the idea of Geno utilizing timed attacks in general, and this sounds like something that would fit perfectly with that

 

[Datboigeno]

NO!!!!!! NO MORE RNG!
AMD besides Geno Whirl wasn't decided by RNG, it was decided by tlwhen you press the button.

This. If anything I feel like Geno would end up being the anti-Hero. His most obvious gimmick would be timed button presses which depending on accuracy could do massive damage or very little. I think conversely to Hero being a character that someone with little skill could get very lucky with and take a stock when the opponent is at 0% damage I feel like Geno would be divisive in terms of how challenging it would be to pull off certain things like Geno whirl at max effectiveness.

 

[link2702]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

no.

No more RNG BS. Save that stuff for item matches and quit baking it into characters toolkits.

 

[Luis27]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

I like this idea, Beware of the Forest Hoes Mad.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I was thinking today that I would really like it if Geno Whirl was simply a projectile version of Jigglypuff's rest, whereby you throw it out and there is a very specific moment in which the hurtbox from the Whirl overlaps with the character's hitbox and if you press B precisely at that moment, then you'll land a hit that is as strong as (or stronger) than Puff's rest.

If Geno Whirl was nuetral B, than you could press it once to send it across the stage and then again right as it connects with your opponent. If you keep pressing B while the Whirl is out, then nothing will happen and you can't send out another Whirl until the previous Whirl connected/vanished from the screen. An untimed Whirl could simply land a measly 5-10% or something.

As someone who secondaries Jigglypuff, I feel like this would be a really fair set-up and not all that broken at all. It's not like rest is the easiest move to land and having Geno Whirl as a "projectile rest" would actually be very hard to land unless you are particularly good at reading people and even then it would be a challenge.

That'd be a very cool mechanic, with the strict timing just like in SMRPG, i like the idea a lot. Obviously i'm just dreaming here but what if, instead of being a high knockback attack like Rest, a well timed Geno Whirl would have a very low knockback or no knockback but would deal a huge amount of dmg like... idk... 999,9%

Also, hello Geno thread, it's been a while

 

[helloiamhere]

It's the same old same old in terms of Smash. Doom Slayer this, Doom Slayer that.

How on earth did he get in 99% of fake leaks these days? It's like what happened with Erdrick, but at least Erdrick (or what became of him in 'Hero') had things like Vergeben, the datamine, Tansut etc to get in everyone grandmothers' "Im a smash leaker guys believe me" 4chan LARPs.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Ok, if Geno Whirl dealt 999%, they need to make it to where you have to have it on the right frame. It'd be hard and every character's frame would be different but it needs to be a miniscule chance if it deals that much. You have to get frame perfect attack

 

[Ze Diglett]

I was thinking today that I would really like it if Geno Whirl was simply a projectile version of Jigglypuff's rest, whereby you throw it out and there is a very specific moment in which the hurtbox from the Whirl overlaps with the character's hitbox and if you press B precisely at that moment, then you'll land a hit that is as strong as (or stronger) than Puff's rest.

If Geno Whirl was nuetral B, than you could press it once to send it across the stage and then again right as it connects with your opponent. If you keep pressing B while the Whirl is out, then nothing will happen and you can't send out another Whirl until the previous Whirl connected/vanished from the screen. An untimed Whirl could simply land a measly 5-10% or something.

As someone who secondaries Jigglypuff, I feel like this would be a really fair set-up and not all that broken at all. It's not like rest is the easiest move to land and having Geno Whirl as a "projectile rest" would actually be very hard to land unless you are particularly good at reading people and even then it would be a challenge.

I really like this idea. I feel making timed Geno Whirl about as strong as Rest (maybe a tad weaker for balancing purposes) would put it right in the sweetspot of being useful, but not too good to the point of putting Geno at an unfair advantage. Hell, you could even make the untimed version useful for starting combos (a la Duck Hunt's Side-B) so it'd give players reason to use both the timed and untimed hits in different situations. I think that'd be pretty interesting.

 

[Firox]

And then salt becomes a way of life for us, like these guys.

"You can constantly taste the salt."

Sounds like a Saturday night on Gamefaqs.

 

[MisterMike]

Ok, if Geno Whirl dealt 999%, they need to make it to where you have to have it on the right frame. It'd be hard and every character's frame would be different but it needs to be a miniscule chance if it deals that much. You have to get frame perfect attack

Let's be real. Given how good competitive players are, this would be trivial.

 

[Firox]

This. If anything I feel like Geno would end up being the anti-Hero. His most obvious gimmick would be timed button presses which depending on accuracy could do massive damage or very little. I think conversely to Hero being a character that someone with little skill could get very lucky with and take a stock when the opponent is at 0% damage I feel like Geno would be divisive in terms of how challenging it would be to pull off certain things like Geno whirl at max effectiveness.

I really like this idea. Give Geno a relatively high-skill/high-reward-type fighting style. This would almost guarantee that someone at pro level would pick him up. Imagine the hype of watching Geno land a perfectly-timed Geno whirl and do 999% damage in tournament!

 

[Luis27]

Guys, Starling is still a Geno Leak?

Sorry for my bad english.

 

[ForsakenM]

This is true.

The character actually does what Minecraft is about. Screw the "perfectly fine as a stage" concept, a character could get in and y'all wouldn't care anyway; it really feels like gatekeeping, a character is always the best form of representation unless it's something like Tetris (though I wouldn't mind some made-up Tetris fighter, either, to be honest).

-also didn't BotW have season pass DLC stuff? it probably came out shortly after release, though, or both in the same year. I don't know, I haven't played it.

Spoiler: A Character Isn't Always The Best Way

This is probably going to sound horribly rude, but I'll do my best to not be so as I have nothing against MineCraft other than it's not my thing.

When I say 'MineCraft would be better as a stage/accessory' what I mean is with representation in Smash.

Think about this for just a moment: why do people play MineCraft?

Is it for Steve? Is it for Alex? Is it for their story or their character arc or something that makes them unique?

No.

People play MineCraft to build awesome stuff and unwind. They don't play it for Steve or Alex or anyone else for that matter. The minute they can, they throw on a skin to replace the default. They pick something that expresses themselves better and almost no one leaves the default 'Steve' or 'Alex' on for longer than they have to. Why? Because it's not about Steve or Alex, it's about MineCraft. Don't just take it from me: someone who works on MineCraft came out and said that themselves, someone in a higher position. Even people who WORK THE GAME don't think Steve is a good rep for MineCraft in Smash.

It's similar to my issue with Undertale: I think it's a genre that is difficult to represent in Smash without taking extreme liberties that don't really do the franchise justice...or representing it with a stage/AT where there is more freedom and liberty for proper design. MineCraft, despite all it's updates, is primarily about crafting. It's in the name! You build stuff with the materials you gathered, and then you gather more materials to make more stuff. You slowly make more and more grandouse stuff until you fill every inch of space you could want, and then you start a new world and do it over again, all while exploring and finding new things up until you've discovered all there is and wait for an update. There is some minor survival aspect and there are things in the game that suggest there is more going on, but all the story elements are really left to other forms of media or other games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the stuff that had characters talking and much more expanded lore happen AFTER Microsoft bought the IP and marketed to children? Like I said, I'm not saying there was no story, but it would seem there was MUCH less before MS showed up.

To compare to Geno (since this thread IS about him, fun fact), here is a list of things Geno has done:

-Geno has had dialogue in his own game
-Geno has a personality
-Geno has had character growth (albeit more subtle and minor than other characters)

Geno has something that allows you to become attached to outside of gameplay. This doesn't make him better than Steve, but it does show that Steve is meant to be nothing more than an avatar for the player. Personality is really important, so I would feel like if MC HAD to have a character, I would pick the most well-known face from any form of MC media that actually talks and has character.

Even so, I suppose this doesn't have to happen, and worse I feel it wouldn't represent the OG MC fans. In this case, as EricTheGamerman mentioned, Villager is a good example of taking a 'blank slate' avatar type character and making it work, though I would argue Villager has more personality than Steve does. That said, I feel like much of what Steve could bring has been done in some way, similar to the troll video that modded him over Link. If anything, I fear he might end up like Hero, where the only really unique thing about him is one single mechanic tied to roughly one move and it would be "poorly balanced" as the kids love to cry about nowadays to make up for his general weakness. Even so, MC isn't about fighting...though I suppose Animal Crossing really isn't either. And I'm sure there are things you can do in MC other than building that could make Steve unique that I don't even know about...but that said, I would have said the same thing about Villager before...and he turned out okay...

I guess I should settle with this: I don't think it's impossible for Steve to happen, but rather I think the IP would be represented in Smash more faithfully with a crazy stage that evolved much like the Super Mario Maker stage, but with a bunch of different players with different avatars building stuff both in the background and in the foreground kinda like Pictochat, but MC style. You could have Creepers and Endermen doing things, Skeletons and Zombies show up, and maybe an interaction with the stage like Midgard where you can find diamond ore by breaking blocks (think that one Dream Land stage) and once one person gathers enough pieces to make the diamond armor and sword, Steve comes on the stage wielding them and fights for a while like Flying Man! Then you can have Steve as a costume considering...he's just the default costume.

I'd say more, but I feel like Ze Diglett covered it: people are at a stage where they are convinced that only a character can do the franchise justice in Smash when a stage or some items and an Assist Trophy could actually do it better. In some cases, they really do allow more to be done, but in other cases it feels like they limit them too much for whatever reason (Shadow is a one-trick pony, Isaac only uses the hand, etc).

I just want you to know that I'm not against Steve, and that if he does show up as a costume, that I understand how you feel. Us Geno Bros have been there, and it may not feel good enough. In fact, it really may in fact no represent the franchise well, like how Mii Gunner really doesn't rep Geno well at all. Simple said, not every franchise would find a character as the best form of representation.

 

[AugustusB]

Guys, Starling is still a Geno Leak?

Sorry for my bad english.

Not quite, but it has not been told what it is yet. We are still in the dark about what it could mean. With (Almost) everything else out of the way that would lead us to believe it was something else...It only leaves Smash to be what the Starling pic is hinting at. (To me, at least)

Man, September can't here any sooner...If it gets revealed then.

EDIT: Also, I feel Geno Whirl being along the lines of a Jigglypuff rest style move is great. I see it working best for more damage if done right, but 999.9 damage? IDK, unless there was no launch back when it happens, then MAYBE, it could work.

EDIT EDIT: Damage cap is 999.0 damage. Geno Whirl can't have its full power...Geno is not happening, pack it up gang! Our work is done. /S

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ok, if Geno Whirl dealt 999%, they need to make it to where you have to have it on the right frame. It'd be hard and every character's frame would be different but it needs to be a miniscule chance if it deals that much. You have to get frame perfect attack

Also, I feel Geno Whirl being along the lines of a Jigglypuff rest style move is great. I see it working best for more damage if done right, but 999.9 damage? IDK, unless there was no launch back when it happens, then MAYBE, it could work.

I was mostly just daydreaming about it without thinking how it would be implemented but i'm sure they could find ways to balance a move that strong with some downsides (e.g. slow startup, very strict timing, long ending lag etc.). I just want a nod to the 9999 dmg ...

Damage cap is 999.0 damage. Geno Whirl can't have its full power...Geno is not happening, pack it gang! Our work is done. /S

... my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. /s

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Spoiler: A Character Isn't Always The Best Way

This is probably going to sound horribly rude, but I'll do my best to not be so as I have nothing against MineCraft other than it's not my thing.

When I say 'MineCraft would be better as a stage/accessory' what I mean is with representation in Smash.

Think about this for just a moment: why do people play MineCraft?

Is it for Steve? Is it for Alex? Is it for their story or their character arc or something that makes them unique?

No.

People play MineCraft to build awesome stuff and unwind. They don't play it for Steve or Alex or anyone else for that matter. The minute they can, they throw on a skin to replace the default. They pick something that expresses themselves better and almost no one leaves the default 'Steve' or 'Alex' on for longer than they have to. Why? Because it's not about Steve or Alex, it's about MineCraft. Don't just take it from me: someone who works on MineCraft came out and said that themselves, someone in a higher position. Even people who WORK THE GAME don't think Steve is a good rep for MineCraft in Smash.

It's similar to my issue with Undertale: I think it's a genre that is difficult to represent in Smash without taking extreme liberties that don't really do the franchise justice...or representing it with a stage/AT where there is more freedom and liberty for proper design. MineCraft, despite all it's updates, is primarily about crafting. It's in the name! You build stuff with the materials you gathered, and then you gather more materials to make more stuff. You slowly make more and more grandouse stuff until you fill every inch of space you could want, and then you start a new world and do it over again, all while exploring and finding new things up until you've discovered all there is and wait for an update. There is some minor survival aspect and there are things in the game that suggest there is more going on, but all the story elements are really left to other forms of media or other games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the stuff that had characters talking and much more expanded lore happen AFTER Microsoft bought the IP and marketed to children? Like I said, I'm not saying there was no story, but it would seem there was MUCH less before MS showed up.

To compare to Geno (since this thread IS about him, fun fact), here is a list of things Geno has done:

-Geno has had dialogue in his own game
-Geno has a personality
-Geno has had character growth (albeit more subtle and minor than other characters)

Geno has something that allows you to become attached to outside of gameplay. This doesn't make him better than Steve, but it does show that Steve is meant to be nothing more than an avatar for the player. Personality is really important, so I would feel like if MC HAD to have a character, I would pick the most well-known face from any form of MC media that actually talks and has character.

Even so, I suppose this doesn't have to happen, and worse I feel it wouldn't represent the OG MC fans. In this case, as EricTheGamerman mentioned, Villager is a good example of taking a 'blank slate' avatar type character and making it work, though I would argue Villager has more personality than Steve does. That said, I feel like much of what Steve could bring has been done in some way, similar to the troll video that modded him over Link. If anything, I fear he might end up like Hero, where the only really unique thing about him is one single mechanic tied to roughly one move and it would be "poorly balanced" as the kids love to cry about nowadays to make up for his general weakness. Even so, MC isn't about fighting...though I suppose Animal Crossing really isn't either. And I'm sure there are things you can do in MC other than building that could make Steve unique that I don't even know about...but that said, I would have said the same thing about Villager before...and he turned out okay...

I guess I should settle with this: I don't think it's impossible for Steve to happen, but rather I think the IP would be represented in Smash more faithfully with a crazy stage that evolved much like the Super Mario Maker stage, but with a bunch of different players with different avatars building stuff both in the background and in the foreground kinda like Pictochat, but MC style. You could have Creepers and Endermen doing things, Skeletons and Zombies show up, and maybe an interaction with the stage like Midgard where you can find diamond ore by breaking blocks (think that one Dream Land stage) and once one person gathers enough pieces to make the diamond armor and sword, Steve comes on the stage wielding them and fights for a while like Flying Man! Then you can have Steve as a costume considering...he's just the default costume.

I'd say more, but I feel like Ze Diglett covered it: people are at a stage where they are convinced that only a character can do the franchise justice in Smash when a stage or some items and an Assist Trophy could actually do it better. In some cases, they really do allow more to be done, but in other cases it feels like they limit them too much for whatever reason (Shadow is a one-trick pony, Isaac only uses the hand, etc).

I just want you to know that I'm not against Steve, and that if he does show up as a costume, that I understand how you feel. Us Geno Bros have been there, and it may not feel good enough. In fact, it really may in fact no represent the franchise well, like how Mii Gunner really doesn't rep Geno well at all. Simple said, not every franchise would find a character as the best form of representation.

I don't think this is horribly rude. I think that this is a very valid opinion. I'm not opposed to a character like Steve being playable. I'm not even opposed to a generic character like Piranha Plant because I think all characters are fun in their own right. But I'm also not opposed to Monster Hunter just getting a boss fight. Or if Minecraft just got a stage cuz those are still a big deal and fit in gaming's biggest crossover.

I can't say that I understand the connection you make between Undertale and Minecraft though because Undertale certainly doesn't suffer from the same lack of personality. I understand that, for whatever reason, people think it matters that Undertale is a game that encourages pacifism (even though it also encourages you to kill everyone to get the whole story) to the point that it shouldn't have a fighter in Smash. Which couldn't be more of a non issue in my opinion, but everyone is entitled to their opinions. Even tho I support and want an Undertale rep in Smash I'm also ok with it just getting something like a stage or even better music because I think it deserves some kind of recognition.

I would not be ok with a SMRPG stage or AT and no Geno though, because Geno pretty clearly belongs in Smash as a fighter. Geno is unquestionably a character with personality and unique fighting mechanics.

 

[Datboigeno]

I was mostly just daydreaming about it without thinking how it would be implemented but i'm sure they could find ways to balance a move that strong with some downsides (e.g. slow startup, very strict timing, long ending lag etc.). I just want a nod to the 9999 dmg ...

... my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. /s

It could just do 99.9% damage. I feel like that's fair and still references the 9999.

 

[AugustusB]

It could just do 99.9% damage. I feel like that's fair and still references the 9999.

That is what I was thinking. That would be a great nod to that without it being...too overpowered. Also, lets say there is barely any knock back on this move. So it just hits the person and they stagger/flinch a bit. But if you hit the whirl just right, you get the slow down effect, but there is still no knock back. That way, the person fighting Geno knows "Oh s***...He landed that."

 

[MisterMike]

Guys, Starling is still a Geno Leak?

Sorry for my bad english.

It's possible, but we still don't know for sure.
Points in favor:
+ Starling ==> Star-ling ==> small star ==> Geno
+ Geno's cloak could be interpreted as somewhat bird-like
+ The leaker clarified almost immediately after the Hero demonstration that the Starling was still a hint, this is after not stating anything else on the matter since he posted the image. Given that Geno's costume was shown to be conspicuously absent from the demonstration as it would've been the perfect time to reveal it's return, the timing could mean something
+ Said leaker's hints tend to be rather on the nose; his hints for Banjo & Kazooie were an image of a witch + puzzle, and a picture of a bear and a bird
Points against:
- Could be referencing Edelgard from Fire Emblem, bird on house in image ==> The Black Eagles house from Fire Emblem: Three Houses ==> Edelgard
- Could be referencing anything else, for that matter
Other points:
* Most likely not Pokemon related; the leaker has been very vocal about his disdain for SwSh, and didn't do any teasing for the information he had regarding it, he just out and discussed it

 

[ZelDan]

How challenging to land are we thinking of making Geno Whirl? because 99.9% still sounds pretty damn high to me. And professional Smash players are pretty good about getting down technical, advanced stuff too, so...

 

[YsDisciple]

Or... just make Geno Whirl do around 50% damage if timed right?

 

[JoltSmash13]

Sorry, but why do you guys want Geno in smash so much? I’ve never played that game, and I’m not trying to deter you from this: I just don’t understand why you like him so much. Let’s put Shrek our father in smash first

 

[CraziiDamon]

Sorry, but why do you guys want Geno in smash so much? I’ve never played that game, and I’m not trying to deter you from this: I just don’t understand why you like him so much. Let’s put Shrek our father in smash first

I agree, It's time for a DreamWorks rep in Smash. I'm tired of all these videogame character bull****. Let's get to the REAL stuff.

 

[JoltSmash13]

I agree, It's time for a DreamWorks rep in Smash. I'm tired of all these videogame character bull****. Let's get to the REAL stuff.

I mean the last time Shrek got his own fighting game Little Red Riding Hood was top tier. Shrek deserves the spotlight in a fighting game.

 

[QQS]

The trailer starts with Peach and Bowser exploring a forest together. It's then revealed they are looking for Mario, who was apparently knocked away into the forest. They eventually find Mario, lying on a tree stump, with no pupils in his eyes and a weird-looking arrow on his head. Before Peach can reach Mario, an arrow is shot at her by an unknown individual. Bowser knocks the arrow away, and then it's revealed the one who shot the arrow is Bowyer from Super Mario RPG. Before Bowyer can finish them both off, Geno appears out of nowhere and shoots a beam at Bowyer. Geno's tagline reads: "Geno Descends Into Battle!". Then, he rushes to fight Bowyer. Gameplay is shown of him, as well as his Final Smash. After the FS, the Smash Ultimate logo animation plays. The scene then cuts back to Bowyer flying out of the forest, and then Mario wakes up. Although Geno left, Peach, Bowser and Mario all walk out of the forest. Geno then watches them leave and smiles, happy to see his old friends once again. Then Geno leaves the forest himself, ending the trailer.

Found that on internet. Sorry if it has been posted before. Amazing. Check the character info that the person wrote:

Credit to Superkoopa21 on Deviant Art.

https://www.deviantart.com/superkoopa21/art/Geno-s-Smash-Moveset-v2-788785800

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

How challenging to land are we thinking of making Geno Whirl? because 99.9% still sounds pretty damn high to me. And professional Smash players are pretty good about getting down technical, advanced stuff too, so...

The idea of high dmg/no knockback is reminding me a bit of Ridley's Skewer (down-b). It (the sweetspot) deals 60% but is fairly easy to anticipate/shield/dodge because of the slow startup. So yeah, with that in mind, maybe a slow startup, long endlag and/or very strict timing could help balance the high dmg... just maybe...

Sorry, but why do you guys want Geno in smash so much?

He's cool.

 

[QQS]

1) Could it be that the feet of the Starling in the Leak are a reference to the Curly Whirlies of Geno? The feet of the bird are a little bit orange, and Geno’s curly whirlies on his hat too (front part). To stretch it more, the beak of the bird could be the edge of Geno’s hat (back part).

2) Or maybe just a bird in a roof, who is not it’s home, just passing by; like Geno passing by in the story in a place that isn’t his home, cause home is Star Road. It could be just a reference to something misplaced or far from home, like Geno in the plot.

3) “Starlings have diverse and complex vocalizations and have been known to embed sounds from their surroundings into their own calls, including car alarms and human speech patterns. The birds can recognize particular individuals by their calls and are the subject of research into the evolution of human language.” Or maybe a reference to Geno’s Star language ♪!? who prefers to be called Geno like the doll.

4) Or just a Small Star as people use to say. Just guessing, maybe I’m crazy, I know. Anyway, Geno will join, I’m pretty sure.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler: A Character Isn't Always The Best Way

This is probably going to sound horribly rude, but I'll do my best to not be so as I have nothing against MineCraft other than it's not my thing.

When I say 'MineCraft would be better as a stage/accessory' what I mean is with representation in Smash.

Think about this for just a moment: why do people play MineCraft?

Is it for Steve? Is it for Alex? Is it for their story or their character arc or something that makes them unique?

No.

People play MineCraft to build awesome stuff and unwind. They don't play it for Steve or Alex or anyone else for that matter. The minute they can, they throw on a skin to replace the default. They pick something that expresses themselves better and almost no one leaves the default 'Steve' or 'Alex' on for longer than they have to. Why? Because it's not about Steve or Alex, it's about MineCraft. Don't just take it from me: someone who works on MineCraft came out and said that themselves, someone in a higher position. Even people who WORK THE GAME don't think Steve is a good rep for MineCraft in Smash.

It's similar to my issue with Undertale: I think it's a genre that is difficult to represent in Smash without taking extreme liberties that don't really do the franchise justice...or representing it with a stage/AT where there is more freedom and liberty for proper design. MineCraft, despite all it's updates, is primarily about crafting. It's in the name! You build stuff with the materials you gathered, and then you gather more materials to make more stuff. You slowly make more and more grandouse stuff until you fill every inch of space you could want, and then you start a new world and do it over again, all while exploring and finding new things up until you've discovered all there is and wait for an update. There is some minor survival aspect and there are things in the game that suggest there is more going on, but all the story elements are really left to other forms of media or other games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the stuff that had characters talking and much more expanded lore happen AFTER Microsoft bought the IP and marketed to children? Like I said, I'm not saying there was no story, but it would seem there was MUCH less before MS showed up.

To compare to Geno (since this thread IS about him, fun fact), here is a list of things Geno has done:

-Geno has had dialogue in his own game
-Geno has a personality
-Geno has had character growth (albeit more subtle and minor than other characters)

Geno has something that allows you to become attached to outside of gameplay. This doesn't make him better than Steve, but it does show that Steve is meant to be nothing more than an avatar for the player. Personality is really important, so I would feel like if MC HAD to have a character, I would pick the most well-known face from any form of MC media that actually talks and has character.

Even so, I suppose this doesn't have to happen, and worse I feel it wouldn't represent the OG MC fans. In this case, as EricTheGamerman mentioned, Villager is a good example of taking a 'blank slate' avatar type character and making it work, though I would argue Villager has more personality than Steve does. That said, I feel like much of what Steve could bring has been done in some way, similar to the troll video that modded him over Link. If anything, I fear he might end up like Hero, where the only really unique thing about him is one single mechanic tied to roughly one move and it would be "poorly balanced" as the kids love to cry about nowadays to make up for his general weakness. Even so, MC isn't about fighting...though I suppose Animal Crossing really isn't either. And I'm sure there are things you can do in MC other than building that could make Steve unique that I don't even know about...but that said, I would have said the same thing about Villager before...and he turned out okay...

I guess I should settle with this: I don't think it's impossible for Steve to happen, but rather I think the IP would be represented in Smash more faithfully with a crazy stage that evolved much like the Super Mario Maker stage, but with a bunch of different players with different avatars building stuff both in the background and in the foreground kinda like Pictochat, but MC style. You could have Creepers and Endermen doing things, Skeletons and Zombies show up, and maybe an interaction with the stage like Midgard where you can find diamond ore by breaking blocks (think that one Dream Land stage) and once one person gathers enough pieces to make the diamond armor and sword, Steve comes on the stage wielding them and fights for a while like Flying Man! Then you can have Steve as a costume considering...he's just the default costume.

I'd say more, but I feel like Ze Diglett covered it: people are at a stage where they are convinced that only a character can do the franchise justice in Smash when a stage or some items and an Assist Trophy could actually do it better. In some cases, they really do allow more to be done, but in other cases it feels like they limit them too much for whatever reason (Shadow is a one-trick pony, Isaac only uses the hand, etc).

I just want you to know that I'm not against Steve, and that if he does show up as a costume, that I understand how you feel. Us Geno Bros have been there, and it may not feel good enough. In fact, it really may in fact no represent the franchise well, like how Mii Gunner really doesn't rep Geno well at all. Simple said, not every franchise would find a character as the best form of representation.

FYI only one person who’s part of the Minecraft team didn’t like the idea of Steve; she’s a senior manager, and actually liked the idea of a Minecraft Skeleton being in Smash. The only other Minecraft employees that said anything about Smash were a Switch Edition dev who liked the idea of Steve or a Creeper in Smash, and a new Mojang employee who said “Steve ain’t gonna Smash” in response to some rumors but acted like he didn’t actually know, just that similar rumors were going for Maxwell in Smash 4; the Mojang employee didn’t give his opinion on Steve, but did say “maybe one of my characters will be in Smash someday” after he mentioned the Maxwell thing so it’s possible he does like the idea of Steve.

There was also some official build of Steve holding a Smash invitation at some LEGO place, I forgot where...

Anyway, Minecraft is about what the player does, a stage can’t show that. Steve and Alex aren’t just the default skins, but pretty much the faces of the game alongside the Creeper. A Steve statue was even at a Microsoft store with nothing else from the game or other Microsoft IPs. There’s also many people who like Steve, as shown by fans on twitter and how popular YouTube videos of Steve Smash Bros. videos get. One even has over 116k likes, currently. There’s also a lot of Steve fan art you can easily find on Google, and players will sometimes build Steve statues or use him in some way in their builds in the game. YouTubers like CaptainSparklez have even voiced their support for him in Smash. People will even make different Steve skins.

I’d like a stage, but no Steve would suck for me and thousands of other people. Mojang still acknowledges Steve sometimes, even if we haven’t gotten stuff like the official 2011 Minecon trailer using him as the main character and the Super Meat Boy crossover in a long time, and only one Mojang employee has said anything about him in Smash as I’ve said, seeming like he possibly likes the idea. Out of the two who were part of the Minecraft team in someway, Aubrey - the person that liked the idea of a skeleton in Smash - is the only one who didn’t like Steve, and she doesn’t work on the game itself. Funnily enough, her distaste of Steve was in a reply to direwolf20, who likes the idea of Steve and is known for always using a Steve skin. She also seemed trollish, tweeting “Minecraft Steve” not long before E3.

TL;DR many people love Steve, only one Minecraft person who doesn’t work on the game itself said she didn’t like Steve but liked the idea of a Minecraft skeleton being in Smash, one dude liked the idea of Steve or a Creeper and another seemed to like Steve, Minecraft dudes built Steve with a Smash invitation at some LEGO place, and really this stage thing is subjective and stupid because none of you really give a frick and many people want Steve in Smash and he has plenty to make a fun and unique moveset as people have already made some.

I also want more Steve recognition dang it, y’all should know how it feels. I’ve been around the Minecraft community for a long time, y’all can’t fricken tell me he isn’t popular.

 

[xpnc]

Sorry, but why do you guys want Geno in smash so much? I’ve never played that game, and I’m not trying to deter you from this: I just don’t understand why you like him so much. Let’s put Shrek our father in smash first

It's a nearly 1300 page thread, I'm sure you could have found hundreds of posts to answer that question, but here's something I posted on reddit that explains my feelings on the situation:

Spoiler: big post

Geno was among the top characters in Nintendo's official polls prior to Brawl even beginning development and before Sakurai mentioned him in any of his journals in 06/07. I don't know if you were around back then but Geno was massively popular in Smash speculation during Brawl's development. If you look at the Wayback Machine archive of Nsider circa 2007 you'd be absolutely shocked at how many posts there were about the deuteragonist of a SNES RPG. It's picked back up more recently after Sakurai said he wanted Geno in Smash and all the other titans (except Isaac, RIP) from that era of speculation are all in.

If you watch reaction videos from popular people in the Smash community like RogersBase, D1, MVD, Nairo, and even Sky Williams, you are going to see them mentioning Geno one way or another. This is because they were there in the thick of it during that magical time in the internet's and Smash's history when we first really had the opportunity to voice our opinions for Smash's development. Melee came at a time when a lot of the players today were too young to have spent any time on forums during its production, so Brawl speculation on websites like Nsider (RIP) was a lot of our first exposures to online communities and interacting with Smash Bros. fans around the world.

Geno is sort of my mental mascot for that era, a character people rapidly threw their support behind among others like Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, and Banjo. There were arguments back then against all of them (except Isaac, and it's ridiculous he's still not playable), and they've all be demolished over time. Ridley was "too big", K. Rool was "too irrelevant", Banjo and Kazooie were "not possible because they're owned by Microsoft". With all those made-up fan rules broken 3 times in this game, the argument that Geno is too obscure or whatever no longer has any weight. And I see people saying the same stuff about Geno in this thread that they would have said two years ago about Banjo and K. Rool, about how it's time to "give it up" or "let it die".

But I'm not going to give it up or let it die, the same way I didn't give up on Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo despite being urged to for YEARS and how I will not give up on Isaac despite how poorly the Golden Sun series has been treated in Smash. Until these five guys are in and every kid on a Nintendo forum circa 2007 can finally get what we've been waiting for for well over a decade, I cannot truly call this game Ultimate.

So I'll be rooting for Geno.

For the guys who have been here longer than me, Geno was the defining feature of one of their favourite games, SMRPG. I recommend you play it by the way, it's fantastic.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Let's be real. Given how good competitive players are, this would be trivial.

Not true. In most fighting games, a 1 frame window to connect a combo (assuming there's no way to buffer it) is generally considered something not worth going for. Even the best players who specifically focus on having their "signature combo" that they get good at, if it involves a 1 frame link, it's going to be inconsistent.

If Geno Whirl had a 1 frame window to do 999%, and that 1 frame window was different depending on how far away they are, how big their hitbox is, what move they're doing, etc... That's not going to happen often. It doesn't matter how good you are. 1 frame inputs are NOT consistent, ever.

That said, if Geno Whirl is Geno's primary projectile that he uses in the neutral, he'd end up using it enough that it could happen once or twice in a game. It really all depends on how good the move is ignoring the 1 frame thing.

 

[JoltSmash13]

It's a nearly 1300 page thread, I'm sure you could have found hundreds of posts to answer that question, but here's something I posted on reddit that explains my feelings on the situation:

Spoiler: big post

Geno was among the top characters in Nintendo's official polls prior to Brawl even beginning development and before Sakurai mentioned him in any of his journals in 06/07. I don't know if you were around back then but Geno was massively popular in Smash speculation during Brawl's development. If you look at the Wayback Machine archive of Nsider circa 2007 you'd be absolutely shocked at how many posts there were about the deuteragonist of a SNES RPG. It's picked back up more recently after Sakurai said he wanted Geno in Smash and all the other titans (except Isaac, RIP) from that era of speculation are all in.

If you watch reaction videos from popular people in the Smash community like RogersBase, D1, MVD, Nairo, and even Sky Williams, you are going to see them mentioning Geno one way or another. This is because they were there in the thick of it during that magical time in the internet's and Smash's history when we first really had the opportunity to voice our opinions for Smash's development. Melee came at a time when a lot of the players today were too young to have spent any time on forums during its production, so Brawl speculation on websites like Nsider (RIP) was a lot of our first exposures to online communities and interacting with Smash Bros. fans around the world.

Geno is sort of my mental mascot for that era, a character people rapidly threw their support behind among others like Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, and Banjo. There were arguments back then against all of them (except Isaac, and it's ridiculous he's still not playable), and they've all be demolished over time. Ridley was "too big", K. Rool was "too irrelevant", Banjo and Kazooie were "not possible because they're owned by Microsoft". With all those made-up fan rules broken 3 times in this game, the argument that Geno is too obscure or whatever no longer has any weight. And I see people saying the same stuff about Geno in this thread that they would have said two years ago about Banjo and K. Rool, about how it's time to "give it up" or "let it die".

But I'm not going to give it up or let it die, the same way I didn't give up on Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo despite being urged to for YEARS and how I will not give up on Isaac despite how poorly the Golden Sun series has been treated in Smash. Until these five guys are in and every kid on a Nintendo forum circa 2007 can finally get what we've been waiting for for well over a decade, I cannot truly call this game Ultimate.

So I'll be rooting for Geno.

For the guys who have been here longer than me, Geno was the defining feature of one of their favourite games, SMRPG. I recommend you play it by the way, it's fantastic.

K. Thanks for the help.

 

[wynn728]

I want to say I feel like we're going to get a Nintendo Direct that solely focus on Astral Chain next week before it release. Nintendo has been doing great promoting it and I feel like something is going to happen with that game.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It's the same old same old in terms of Smash. Doom Slayer this, Doom Slayer that.

And Capcom rep this, and Capcom rep that.

 

[T2by4]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

>Another DLC pass
>No Geno mii costume

99% of 4chan leaks are fake, but if another dlc pass comes and geno still doesn't have a costume then that is still VERY good news for us. They can easily make the second pass include spirits. That's my hope at least. Plus even sakurai mentioned that he was very sorry to rex fans since they simply didnt have the time to make him a full character. The second pass can be the perfect opportunity to fill in slots of characters with massive demand they noticed as they were making the game.