Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Nintendo would be ecstatic if even a third of consumers purchased DLC for any of their games. The average rate of purchase for DLC is between 10% and 20%, with higher quality DLC being on the higher end, Zelda, for example.

The community overestimates their numbers. If Ultimate sold 15 million units, less than a million of those buyers are actual core fans who participate in online communities such as this, and bought every single piece of DLC. Even amongst the most hardcore fans, there are sure to be those who don’t buy every piece of DLC, so imagine the buying habits of the average consumer.

If there were a game series where DLC broke any records, it would be Super Smash Bros., but speculating anything more than half of consumers buying DLC for Ultimate is insane.

Meanwhile, it's odd to think that DLC numbers wouldn't bring much when something like Street Fighter V still continues to get DLC (coming from the company that historically milks fighters until they're out of milk, and then turns them into hamburgers and clothing, no less). It's such a bleeding weird double-standard.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

To further elaborate on the whole "profitability vs. potential" argument:

Why was BvS considered such a massive financial failure by WB, despite being profitable?

BvS cost SIGNIFICANTLY more to make, took more time, and used up more resources than any of the films in Nolan's Batman series, and was less profitable than any of them. BvS still technically MADE money, but nowhere close to what could have been made in less time, with less resources used, and less creative risk. Were the movie profitable on the level of something like Guardians 2 or Black Panther, that'd be different. Eventually, you have to consider how your resources are being utilized, and where they'd be best put to use in order to maximize profit potential.

DLC for Ultimate will always be profitable, but will that profit outweigh the potential profit of putting resources towards development of a new title?

At this point, there's virtually nobody on the cusp of buying Ultimate. Are there really any individual characters that are gonna sell copies of Ultimate that wouldn't be sold already?

The point is: nobody's NOT gonna buy Ultimate because the game is missing Crash, Geno, Doomguy and Bandana Dee. But would people buy a NEW Smash game due to a combination of it being a new product, AND those newcomers being added?


This is why I think the handling of Smash DLC will be most indicative of Nintendo's business ethos. If we get another fighter's pass (or somehow, 2), there's no debate that Nintendo really is prioritizing their fans over profits.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

You joke but some people still don't own Ultimate out of spite for characters not included.

Or they're waiting for DLC characters matching with a request they might have.

Banjo might have been some people's deal maker if you don't believe it.

.

 

[Firox]

At this point, there's virtually nobody on the cusp of buying Ultimate. Are there really any individual characters that are gonna sell copies of Ultimate that wouldn't be sold already?

As of just last month, Smash Bros Ultimate is still in the top ten best selling games in the United States. https://www.androidcentral.com/july-2019-npd-madden-nfl-20-was-bestselling-game-month Obviously there are still people on the cusp of buying. The fact that these numbers spike with each DLC release means that, yes, individual characters are going to sell copies of the game. While I see your point about BvS and the relativity of "profit vs potential", your argument that everyone who wants the game will have already bought it simply doesn't hold water. The characters themselves are the single most powerful draw that the game has. If you were to replace them all with generic no-names a la Brawlout, etc., and changed NOTHING else, I assure you the game wouldn't sell anywhere near what it does in reality. I mean seriously, you think adding someone like Sephiroth or Master Chief wouldn't pull in at least a few fresh wallets? All it takes is a big enough name or a super recognizable face.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

I probably should have worded my point better.

It's not that I think EVERYBODY who WILL BUY ULTIMATE has ALREADY bought it.

My point is that I don't think there is a large enough percentage of people who are ON THE FENCE about getting it that will be WON OVER SOLELY by the addition of one or two particular characters, and CERTAINLY not a large enough percentage that it would be inarguably smarter from a business perspective to pursue those characters as DLC for this game, as opposed to using them as selling points for a new game.

Once the Fighter Pass is completed, additional characters like Rayman, 2B, Dixie Kong, etc. would sell more copies of a NEW Smash game than they would copies of Ultimate.

 

[SSGuy]

You joke but some people still don't own Ultimate out of spite for characters not included.

Or they're waiting for DLC characters matching with a request they might have.

Banjo might have been some people's deal maker if you don't believe it.

.

I can attest to this statement at least regarding the DLC. I refused to get any DLC as a result of Plant over Geno. I won't have any issues buying it all if Geno gets in.

 

[MattX20]

The indie showcase was interesting, and with it done, all that's left now for major directs that we know of for sure is the September general Direct. And given that this indie showcase happened almost 2 weeks earlier than normal, I'm going to guess that we'll possibly get the date for it by Friday of next week. Though, if I'm wrong, that's okay. We'll still likely get the Direct before the 13th going by previous years.

 

[wynn728]

Nintendo would be ecstatic if even a third of consumers purchased DLC for any of their games. The average rate of purchase for DLC is between 10% and 20%, with higher quality DLC being on the higher end, Zelda, for example.

The community overestimates their numbers. If Ultimate sold 15 million units, less than a million of those buyers are actual core fans who participate in online communities such as this, and bought every single piece of DLC. Even amongst the most hardcore fans, there are sure to be those who don’t buy every piece of DLC, so imagine the buying habits of the average consumer.

If there were a game series where DLC broke any records, it would be Super Smash Bros., but speculating anything more than half of consumers buying DLC for Ultimate is insane.

I feel like this is an under estimation on how DLC performs for Nintendo game. I don't think everyone buys the DLC, but I'm willing to bet it's more than just 10% to 20%.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You joke but some people still don't own Ultimate out of spite for characters not included.

Or they're waiting for DLC characters matching with a request they might have.

Banjo might have been some people's deal maker if you don't believe it.

.

That’s such an inconsequential fraction of potential players though that you might as well not even count it. At least in regards to people who are interested in Ultimate, but haven’t already bought it out of spite for the lack of a character. That’s basically not a demographic worth going after or investing in, especially when these are often Nintendo faithfuls that buy Nintendo products. One of Nintnedo’s goals with Smash as listed in their financial reports was to bring in new people to their franchises through Smash, hence the increased third parties in general. A few Bandanna Dee or Isaac holdouts are only going to be able to buy Smash and the character... whereas a whole new fan brought to Nintendo through a specific character is going potentially be buying a Switch, Smash, the character, and then Nintendo hopes they will buy more Nintendo products and invest in more of their franchises.

 

[Ura]

Nah. Even if one did appear, it probably isn't it. I think I saw one of Fatman's comments say that the person isn't interested in Indie games.

Never mind that, the event's entire highlight was leaked before it even started, so there was no point in watching this.

At this stage, the starling thing must only be related to first parties, so we should see if a Nintendo Direct comes up in a couple of weeks. I still think it'll be Nintenbirds.

Well looks like Geno's in the clear then with nothing (presumably) between now and the speculated Direct early next month.

We'll know for sure what the hint was by then I think. I don't see how it could be longer than that.

 

[QQS]

Over 20 years since SMRPG and Geno is still one of the most beloved characters, regardless not being playable in other games than it; liderating the Top-10 polls since Melee (now I’m pretty sure he is the First-Top, given the fact that Ridley, KingKRool and Banjo are already there. Over 20 years of Fan-Demand; Over 50.000 posts in SmashBoards in over 1.300 pages. Perfect ideas for moveset, character style, design, alternative costumes, Kirby’s hat, music, stage, spirits and coming from the first game when Mario discovered the RPG mechanics.

In this Smash and after that perfect roster we have, no one BUT Geno can surpase previous reveals.

The Geno character reveal will be insane. There is no way Sakurai will close this epic-dream roster without Geno in there; and also, it seems that the relations with Square are better than ever and Nintendo & Sakurai can surprise us all with Geno being DLC from the FP, or Bonus, and maybe even as a First Party, who knows.

If Sakurai made a special section and announcement of Geno being a Mii Costume in WiiU and even revealing it with his own music and Splash-Screen; I wonder the amount of love Nintendo/Sakurai can show to the world in his reveal with “In the Flower Garden” as background intro music: a toy coming to life, Mario characters starring there or even Kirby’s world with his star stuff. Also in the Pre-gameplay trailer: Lets play Geno & Geno awakens.

Can you imagine those remixes also? Then Geno’s gameplay with Forest Maze, Armed Boss, Hello Happy Kingdom, and even his victory theme. They could also close the trailer with the GoodBye Geno song when the gang is looking at him rising to the sky. I like the idea also of showing a sequence of 6 stars representing the 6 DLC; and then suddenly a 7h Star appears being Geno. Or even amiibos coming to life and Geno is the one possessed coming to life. You have so many ideas.

And also so many ideas for his Art Reveal, the best ones I’ve read are: Geno Stars in/Geno awakens/Geno Squares in/Geno grants the final wish/Geno comes to life/Geno serves a higher autority/GENO GETS THE SHOW ON THE ROAD!

Keep the faith.

 

[ForsakenM]

Sakurai is part of the corporation picks. If he advertises games to sell to you, he is a corporate person. Joker is a Sakurai pick so Joker is a corporate pick. I want Doom Guy for Super Smash Bros Ultimate but is my request along with a few other people going to be the reason for his inclusion, over getting in because Bethesda wants to advertise Doom Eternal for the Switch? Not really because the corporate decision would outweigh the fan requests.

So I SEVERELY disagree here, and here is why.

Yes, Sakurai is a developer and needs to make corporate decisions, and thus by technicality, any character he chooses to include is a 'corporate pick.'

However, what about Joker screams 'This pick was made by someone who thinks this is a good push to make money'?

Much like what war is good for, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Joker is a pick that Sakurai saw and more than likely immediately thought 'OMG, I LOVE Persona 5 AND the whole series AND Morgana, like, my fav. I can totally make Joker work in Ultimate. I can, and I HAVE TO!'

You can't tell me Sakurai looked at the opportunity to put Joker in Ultimate and thought 'Hmm, this could really push our brand and up our numbers.' over him immediately having a connection with the Persona franchise itself. It's one of the reasons I love Sakurai: he loves video games, and that love goes into making them, and he's very dedicated to making sure that shines through.

This is why a 'corporate pick' or a 'shill pick' and a 'Sakurai pick' are, in my opinion, two different categories.

Seriously, who would have thought was a good business decision?

Alright, but consider that Geno would (most likely) represent an already represented series if he were ever added to Smash. For that reason alone, I can easily see him just not coming with a stage like Ridley and K. Rool (you said it yourself, new IPs in Smash get the red carpet treatment, whereas already represented ones receiving new reps do not), which I would be totally fine with if it meant getting Geno period. And in regards to your bit about Geno not having a stage that "fits him", you say that like Bowser has a stage that fits him. After all these years on the Smash roster, the closest he has to a stage of his own is one third of Paper Mario, a stage literally named for his nemesis. Shucks, even Piranha Plant at least has Mushroomy Kingdom to call home. Hell, Bowser's not even the only Mario character with this problem; look at Dr. Mario. Sure, he was a clone when he was introduced, but still, where does he fit?

Wh- 90%, mate?! Are you joking? I mean, I think Smash fans are sheep, and even I think 90%'s a generous guess for the reasons laid out in EricTheGamerman 's post. Let's bump it down to 75% at most.

Where was this 90% thing? I didn't see it in the part you quoted.

Regardless, you missed the part where I said that Mario characters tend to break this pattern, along with LoZ and Pokemon. The reason being is because these three franchises are not only the biggest Nintendo has, but they constantly evolve and bring in something big. Examples being Rosalina and Luma for Sm4sh and New Donk City Stage in Ultimate, with small touches like Mario having a Cappy taunt. Examples for LoZ are that we got the new Great Plateau Tower and BotW version of Link while also getting design changes for the other characters to represent the different games. Pokemon examples are that we've gotten a new Pokemon in every single Smash release and, up until Ultimate, a stage to represent the region. Pokemon also got small changes like the introduction of Mega Forms and Ash Greninja in Final Smashes.

The Big Three seem to get something noteworthy in every release, whether it be a lot of characters or a lot of stages or more QoL changes than other franchises.

This is why I'm not worried about Geno coming in with the minimum amount of content: Either he's a 3rd Party and he gets the royal treatment, or he's 1st Party and he's a Mario character, which easily translates to the same thing because that makes him part of the Big Three.

To further elaborate on the whole "profitability vs. potential" argument:

Why was BvS considered such a massive financial failure by WB, despite being profitable?

BvS cost SIGNIFICANTLY more to make, took more time, and used up more resources than any of the films in Nolan's Batman series, and was less profitable than any of them. BvS still technically MADE money, but nowhere close to what could have been made in less time, with less resources used, and less creative risk. Were the movie profitable on the level of something like Guardians 2 or Black Panther, that'd be different. Eventually, you have to consider how your resources are being utilized, and where they'd be best put to use in order to maximize profit potential.

DLC for Ultimate will always be profitable, but will that profit outweigh the potential profit of putting resources towards development of a new title?

At this point, there's virtually nobody on the cusp of buying Ultimate. Are there really any individual characters that are gonna sell copies of Ultimate that wouldn't be sold already?

The point is: nobody's NOT gonna buy Ultimate because the game is missing Crash, Geno, Doomguy and Bandana Dee. But would people buy a NEW Smash game due to a combination of it being a new product, AND those newcomers being added?

This is why I think the handling of Smash DLC will be most indicative of Nintendo's business ethos. If we get another fighter's pass (or somehow, 2), there's no debate that Nintendo really is prioritizing their fans over profits.

That’s such an inconsequential fraction of potential players though that you might as well not even count it. At least in regards to people who are interested in Ultimate, but haven’t already bought it out of spite for the lack of a character. That’s basically not a demographic worth going after or investing in, especially when these are often Nintendo faithfuls that buy Nintendo products. One of Nintnedo’s goals with Smash as listed in their financial reports was to bring in new people to their franchises through Smash, hence the increased third parties in general. A few Bandanna Dee or Isaac holdouts are only going to be able to buy Smash and the character... whereas a whole new fan brought to Nintendo through a specific character is going potentially be buying a Switch, Smash, the character, and then Nintendo hopes they will buy more Nintendo products and invest in more of their franchises.

So...we don't matter?

Uhhhhh...I know this is anecdotal, buuuuuuuuut...I haven't bought a Switch yet nor Ultimate, and Geno's appearance guarantees I throw down all that money ASAP. Right now it's more like 'Eh, when I can afford it comfortably.' but a Geno reveal would have me flying out to even GameStop (blech) and grabbing everything I can pay for that gives Nintendo money via Smash. This would inevitably lead me to buying games I want to try that are coming to Switch but that I haven't because I don't have one (I love that Sushido game, but I don't have a Switch. I want to play Astral Chain as well as Demon X Machina, but no Switch and those games don't sell me. Basically, it would be like Alpha Sapphire was for me a couple years ago: I saw about 10 mins of gameplay on a stream that covered the PERFECT section of the game to blend both what I loved about the original and adding new stuff that intrigued me, and I immediately left the house and bought a 3DS that day and got both Alpha Sapphire and Smash for 3DS).

I'm sure I'm not the only one out there still waiting to make such a purchase based on the complete FP reveal/seeing the character they want revealed.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:

Oookay. Lemme explain why I asked:

https://boards.4channel.org/v//thread/474556395/new-information-for-smash-ultimate

As you can see, this post was made about an hour after... er, the "Impact leaker who we totally have never seen before".

Thing is... that account barely had anyone following it before Sabi's retweets. So it would be weird if this was just copypasted from an account that (as far as we knew at the time) is just a random person.

I normally take these things with a huge grain of salt (and I still am taking this one like that), but it certainly is weird. The exact release date being there caught my eye.

Luckily, this rumor has an expiration date (September 24th), so we just need to wait a month to see if it sinks or swims.

This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So...we don't matter?

Uhhhhh...I know this is anecdotal, buuuuuuuuut...I haven't bought a Switch yet nor Ultimate, and Geno's appearance guarantees I throw down all that money ASAP. Right now it's more like 'Eh, when I can afford it comfortably.' but a Geno reveal would have me flying out to even GameStop (blech) and grabbing everything I can pay for that gives Nintendo money via Smash. This would inevitably lead me to buying games I want to try that are coming to Switch but that I haven't because I don't have one (I love that Sushido game, but I don't have a Switch. I want to play Astral Chain as well as Demon X Machina, but no Switch and those games don't sell me. Basically, it would be like Alpha Sapphire was for me a couple years ago: I saw about 10 mins of gameplay on a stream that covered the PERFECT section of the game to blend both what I loved about the original and adding new stuff that intrigued me, and I immediately left the house and bought a 3DS that day and got both Alpha Sapphire and Smash for 3DS).

I'm sure I'm not the only one out there still waiting to make such a purchase based on the complete FP reveal/seeing the character they want revealed.

Well, to be perfectly blunt, not particularly from a business standpoint when they've also already thrown so many bones to the Smash fandom with Ultimate. Waiting for a singular character reveal in Smash just seems like an odd way to approach buying a system honestly and if you're already more than likely to get the system down the road, there's not a ton of incentive to cater to you anyway since Nintendo will win any war of attrition (or they won't and eh, your one of a handful of people, can't win them all). If you're going to buy the Nintendo products eventually, you're not their "whale" so to speak since the "whales" would be the ones who otherwise wouldn't buy any Nintendo content until they catch them in the ecosystem.

The game has sold almost 15 million units as is and will continue to sell on the title's strength without further DLC support (We see this with other Switch games with limited DLC options as well, so I suspect Smash will maintain a similar momentum). It's doing exactly what Nintendo wants without having to cater to such a specific group of holdouts. One character in Smash in the grand scheme of Nintendo by itself is insignificant to their company models as is. And I genuinely doubt that there are all that many people who are just obstinate enough to not buy Smash over one character. Like, yes, they exist, but it seems like such a foolish reason to deny yourself the game and console you're interested in and most people will just be interested in Smash and go for it. The people who die on hills for characters are traditionally a handful on forum users, many of whom just buy the game anyway. It's just not a market that is going to be worth targeting in the long run. You can decided to make a fan request DLC, but that's not really born out of getting the minimal number of fence-sitters to finally do something when there was a good chance they'd just break down anyway later on.

I do not understand buying the Fighter's Pass on the basis of a single character though. This keeps coming up and I'm utterly confused by it every time. If you want all the characters, I mean go for it, same with four. But I remember seeing people in the Banjo & Kazooie thread talking about how much he decided if they bought the pass and then many of them were on board with the pass despite not knowing the other two fighters (which had previously been a huge issue) and not particularly liking Joker or Hero. Why not just buy the one fighter you're interested in?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

Well if it’s true, a second pass will be on the way so I’ll accept Doom Slayer if it means more characters (like Elma and KOS-MOS) will have a shot

 

[3BitSaurus]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

Since KirbyWorshipper already said it, I thought I'd reinforce it:

Don't hold your breath for now. I'm personally just going to wait until the 24th so we can see whether or not this person is just copypasting from that twitter account.

That, and remember that even in case this is true, some people like to mix real and false info (see the DMCV leaks, which were correct, but also said Dante in Smash). So it may not all pan out.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

No way in the hell they reveal #4 and #5 this early on, AND reveal a second fighter's pass. Not to mention, September 24th sounds little bit too busy of a window too, but I'm more willing to relent on that point.

Why are we considering this, the Impact Leaker clearly knew all of the Indie World stuff beforehand and was before this, no?

 

[wynn728]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

I will say that Ori was leaked a long time ago, but I'd be down for Doom Slayer and Phoenix Wright. Those two would be awesome.

 

[Firox]

No way in the hell they reveal #4 and #5 this early on, AND reveal a second fighter's pass. Not to mention, September 24th sounds little bit too busy of a window too, but I'm more willing to relent on that point.

Why are we considering this, the Impact Leaker clearly knew all of the Indie World stuff beforehand and was before this, no?

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you there. #4 AND 5? BS. Our best bet for #4 will be alongside the Banjo release direct. Besides, spooning out #5 this early seems WAY out of character for both Nintendo AND Sakurai. Not buying it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I should point out that I am skeptical of this leak myself, but mainly because everyone and their mother brought up Doom Slayer (but I'd be fine with him).

Apparently 3BitSaurus sees something in this one, but at least the killswitch for this one is short. Ignoring that, we only have BIRDS as a possible lead.

I will say that Ori was leaked a long time ago, but I'd be down for Doom Slayer and Phoenix Wright. Those two would be awesome.

You know what? I agree with you on this one. At least our character tastes line up.

 

[MattX20]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you there. #4 AND 5? BS. Our best bet for #4 will be alongside the Banjo release direct. Besides, spooning out #5 this early seems WAY out of character for both Nintendo AND Sakurai. Not buying it.

Yeah, I don't buy it for 3 reasons. First, the date seems way off compared to what the source has said of the starling pic being something coming "soon". Second, they would likely save fighter 5 for the end of the year, and third, there is no way we're getting additional DLC announcements this early

 

[3BitSaurus]

I should point out that I am skeptical of this leak myself, but mainly because everyone and their mother brought up Doom Slayer (but I'd be fine with him).

Apparently 3BitSaurus sees something in this one, but at least the killswitch for this one is short. Ignoring that, we only have BIRDS as a possible lead.

You know what? I agree with you on this one. At least our character tastes line up.

I am mostly skeptical of this one as well, but the fact that it was posted an hour after the only tweet that gave a concrete release date for Ori (from a "random" user that few people would guess had legitimate info at that time) gives me pause.

To me, the contention point would be knowing about a FP2 this early. But again, all this rumor needs to be disproven is for Banjo, the costumes and HRC to not show up on the 24th (to clarify, the post doesn't say 4 and 5 will be revealed at that date, it just says who the characters are).

To play devil's advocate for a second: knowing about the characters this early wouldn't be a first. Erdrick and Luminary had their names leaked about 6 months before their actual reveal, so...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So I SEVERELY disagree here, and here is why.

Yes, Sakurai is a developer and needs to make corporate decisions, and thus by technicality, any character he chooses to include is a 'corporate pick.'

However, what about Joker screams 'This pick was made by someone who thinks this is a good push to make money'?

Much like what war is good for, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Joker is a pick that Sakurai saw and more than likely immediately thought 'OMG, I LOVE Persona 5 AND the whole series AND Morgana, like, my fav. I can totally make Joker work in Ultimate. I can, and I HAVE TO!'

You can't tell me Sakurai looked at the opportunity to put Joker in Ultimate and thought 'Hmm, this could really push our brand and up our numbers.' over him immediately having a connection with the Persona franchise itself. It's one of the reasons I love Sakurai: he loves video games, and that love goes into making them, and he's very dedicated to making sure that shines through.

This is why a 'corporate pick' or a 'shill pick' and a 'Sakurai pick' are, in my opinion, two different categories.

Seriously, who would have thought was a good business decision?

I never said that Sakurai chooses a character based on how well they'd sell. I even stated in my original quote that characters could be chosen for personal reasons.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

I placed Sakurai within corporate picks because he is the Creator of the Super Smash Bros series along with Nintendo. Even still, it was his job to sell Joker to us.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I am mostly skeptical of this one as well, but the fact that it was posted an hour after the only tweet that gave a concrete release date for Ori (from a "random" user that few people would guess had legitimate info at that time) gives me pause.

To me, the contention point would be knowing about a FP2 this early. But again, all this rumor needs to be disproven is for Banjo, the costumes and HRC to not show up on the 24th (to clarify, the post doesn't say 4 and 5 will be revealed at that date, it just says who the characters are).

To play devil's advocate for a second: knowing about the characters this early wouldn't be a first. Erdrick and Luminary had their names leaked about 6 months before their actual reveal, so...

If anything, the hour afterwards makes me all the more certain this is fake. If this person saw or heard some rumor of a September 27th release date that hadn't gone wildly public yet, it makes for a perfect way to justify their "leak" as real if it turns out to be true to some people. As a faker, you'd take the chance because you already know you don't have anything legit, and Ori had been "leaked" for ages on its own, so it's a semi-safe bet to take up someone else's information and attach your own fake stuff on to it.

If it doesn't work out? Oh well, it's another fake in the sea of fakes. If it does? You're one step closer to achieving your intended goal of riling people up about your bull**** fake.

 

[ForsakenM]

Sometimes I wonder if people can read.

For those who dislike 4chan, I'll quote the user here.

Username is Luigifan735

"Before I give out the new information, you will know I right when Nintendo reveals Ori and the Blind Forest (Set to release on September 27), and Banjo will release on September 24. With that out of the way, here is the new information:

>Banjo will drop on September 24. (See Above).
>Home-Run Contest will come with Ver. 5.0.
>Steve and Alex outfit will come with Ver. 5.0., as well as a Mumbo Jumbo outfit and Jinjo hat
>Doom Slayer is in with his original design as his main alt, with his Eternal design as a pallet swap.
>Phoenix Wright is in.
>Second Fighters Pass is in the works. I don't know who will get included for that pass as for now

That is all "

So, what do we see here? Well first off, no one is saying that Fighter #4 AND Fighter #5 will be revealed soon. This user is simply stating that Phoenix Wright is part of the Fighter's Pass, not when he will be announced or revealed. They aren't even claiming when Doom Slayer will be announced, just that the character is part of the Fighter's Pass. This guy doesn't even say WHICH FIGHTER COMES FIRST, let ALONE any dates of reveal.

If you think this post means they are coming soon, you are filling in gaps on your own. Take a step back, breathe, and read what was ACTUALLY posted.

Now, for what the post DOES say:

Banjo has a date of late September, the 24th to be exact. I think it's possible, considering that Fighter #4 could easily be revealed in early Sept with a Direct and have Banjo shadow-dropped later in the month with a video to go before hand. However, I think October may be more likely for a release date based on the trend thus far of having a good chunk of time between releases (Jan for , April for , July for ...thus in Oct).

Home-Run Contest will come with Banjo with the 5.0 update. Makes sense to me. Just because everyone one else thinks we are getting a Boss Rush mode doesn't mean we are. Could just as easily be HRC.

Steve and Alex as costumes with Mumbo Jumbo outfit and Jinjo hat. This all makes sense to me as well. MineCraft always fit in Smash better as a stage or an accessory of some sort, and having a costume to rep it makes total sense. I think the choices in Mii Costumes for Banjo make sense too, considering the fact that there are some limits on characters that are recurrent, iconic, important enough, and transferable to that kind of medium within B&K lore to have a costume and Mumbo works perfect for a Swordsman outfit.

Doom Slayer stuff is nothing we haven't seen before. Phoenix also isn't new, but is slightly-less talked about. Monster Hunter is the current buzz in terms of a Capcom rep, so this is going against the grain while also picking a character that is mostly beloved.

A second pass isn't impossible, and if you are all really doubting this because of timing, remember that we knew about the Microsoft spirits since Oct/Nov and we knew about 'Brave' for roughly 8-10 months. Real leaks can come out early.

That being said.....I don't believe this at all, and good on you all for being critical with your thinking and not believing everything you see.

EDIT: Damn, mostly sniped by 3BitSaurus though I did bring up some small things they did not.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Okay, a new thing came up, so I'll just quote the user in question:



This leaker could be a guesser though, so keep your salt shakers handy.

The fact that this post was made an hour after makes it clear that they're just piggybacking on the Ori leak. Anyone can take information from a real leak and add it to their fake leak to make it seem more credible. Remember the thousands of fake leaks that mentioned Erdrick to piggyback off the Brave datamime? Also, it will be a cold day in hell when I recognize any generic "Doomguy and X character" text leak as legitimate

 

[Dan]

Gen 1 oversaturation.

Good.

 

[YsDisciple]

With the recent "leak" that surfaced a few days ago claiming that Doom Slayer, and a Monster Hunter character (with male/female alts) will be the last two fighters in the Pass, I will say I'm more inclined to believe the Monster Hunter character's bit. I mean, we have Rathalos as a boss, and an Assist Trophy. I know the character has also been mentioned before as one of the potential remaining dlc characters in the Pass, but now... it makes a bit more sense. Having Rathalos in the game up until now still feels like something's missing (something from the Monster Hunter franchise). To give an example, it would've felt weird if Dracula was included as a boss, but no Castlevania fighter's were added to the roster. So far all bosses have an associated fighter that represents the series from which they originate.

Giga Bowser: Super Smash Bros. Melee's original boss version of Bowser; character originating from the Super Mario games. Mario and Luigi have both been characters in ALL the Smash games.
Ganon: the Demon King form of Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We do have Link since the very first Smash game, but in Ultimate we got Young Link's return (the Link from Ocarina of Time).
Marx: final boss for the Milky Way Wishes adventure in Kirby Super Star (Kirby's been in Smash since the very first iteration).
Galeom: Super Smash Bros. original boss (from Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode).
Dracula: the main boss of pretty much all of the Castlevania games. As fighters representing the same series we got both Simon and Richter Belmont; the only two Belmonts to have appeared the most throughout all of the Castlevania games within the old canon story (i.e. story not related to Lords of Shadows reboot).
Rathalos: one of the iconic beasts in Monster Hunter. As fighter representing the series... uh... looks around ... huh... there's still no fighter in the roster. Hmm, this needs fixing (and no, a Mii costume or two won't do).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Sometimes I wonder if people can read.

For those who dislike 4chan, I'll quote the user here.

Username is Luigifan735

"Before I give out the new information, you will know I right when Nintendo reveals Ori and the Blind Forest (Set to release on September 27), and Banjo will release on September 24. With that out of the way, here is the new information:

>Banjo will drop on September 24. (See Above).
>Home-Run Contest will come with Ver. 5.0.
>Steve and Alex outfit will come with Ver. 5.0., as well as a Mumbo Jumbo outfit and Jinjo hat
>Doom Slayer is in with his original design as his main alt, with his Eternal design as a pallet swap.
>Phoenix Wright is in.
>Second Fighters Pass is in the works. I don't know who will get included for that pass as for now

That is all "

So, what do we see here? Well first off, no one is saying that Fighter #4 AND Fighter #5 will be revealed soon. This user is simply stating that Phoenix Wright is part of the Fighter's Pass, not when he will be announced or revealed. They aren't even claiming when Doom Slayer will be announced, just that the character is part of the Fighter's Pass. This guy doesn't even say WHICH FIGHTER COMES FIRST, let ALONE any dates of reveal.

If you think this post means they are coming soon, you are filling in gaps on your own. Take a step back, breathe, and read what was ACTUALLY posted.

Now, for what the post DOES say:

Banjo has a date of late September, the 24th to be exact. I think it's possible, considering that Fighter #4 could easily be revealed in early Sept with a Direct and have Banjo shadow-dropped later in the month with a video to go before hand. However, I think October may be more likely for a release date based on the trend thus far of having a good chunk of time between releases (Jan for , April for , July for ...thus in Oct).

Home-Run Contest will come with Banjo with the 5.0 update. Makes sense to me. Just because everyone one else thinks we are getting a Boss Rush mode doesn't mean we are. Could just as easily be HRC.

Steve and Alex as costumes with Mumbo Jumbo outfit and Jinjo hat. This all makes sense to me as well. MineCraft always fit in Smash better as a stage or an accessory of some sort, and having a costume to rep it makes total sense. I think the choices in Mii Costumes for Banjo make sense too, considering the fact that there are some limits on characters that are recurrent, iconic, important enough, and transferable to that kind of medium within B&K lore to have a costume and Mumbo works perfect for a Swordsman outfit.

Doom Slayer stuff is nothing we haven't seen before. Phoenix also isn't new, but is slightly-less talked about. Monster Hunter is the current buzz in terms of a Capcom rep, so this is going against the grain while also picking a character that is mostly beloved.

A second pass isn't impossible, and if you are all really doubting this because of timing, remember that we knew about the Microsoft spirits since Oct/Nov and we knew about 'Brave' for roughly 8-10 months. Real leaks can come out early.

That being said.....I don't believe this at all, and good on you all for being critical with your thinking and not believing everything you see.

EDIT: Damn, mostly sniped by 3BitSaurus though I did bring up some small things they did not.

I don't think the Microsoft Spirits have ever counted for anything other than mistakes on the side of the Spirit team, and the current DLC precedent says that they will not be in the game period at this stage seeing as Spirits have been exclusive to the new series added.

I hard disagree that "Minecraft always fit in Smash better as a stage or an accessory" just because it seems overly restrictive for no good reason. It works as well with a character in the game as Animal Crossing does for certain.

I'm also pretty sure people were going to expect Home Run Contest regardless since the How To video being found in the code ages ago. Boss Rush Mode as the main mode behind Banjo & Kazooie is a much more recent thing that has been making the rounds and for the longest time, people were certain HRC would come with Hero.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Having Rathalos in the game up until now still feels like something's missing (something from the Monster Hunter franchise). To give an example, it would've felt weird if Dracula was included as a boss, but no Castlevania fighter's were added to the roster. So far all bosses have an associated fighter that represents the series from which they originate.

Giga Bowser: Super Smash Bros. Melee's original boss version of Bowser; character originating from the Super Mario games. Mario and Luigi have both been characters in ALL the Smash games.
Ganon: the Demon King form of Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We do have Link since the very first Smash game, but in Ultimate we got Young Link's return (the Link from Ocarina of Time).
Marx: final boss for the Milky Way Wishes adventure in Kirby Super Star (Kirby's been in Smash since the very first iteration).
Galeom: Super Smash Bros. original boss (from Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode).
Dracula: the main boss of pretty much all of the Castlevania games. As fighters representing the same series we got both Simon and Richter Belmont; the only two Belmonts to have appeared the most throughout all of the Castlevania games within the old canon story (i.e. story not related to Lords of Shadows reboot).
Rathalos: one of the iconic beasts in Monster Hunter. As fighter representing the series... uh... looks around ... huh... there's still no fighter in the roster. Hmm, this needs fixing (and no, a Mii costume or two won't do).

Tbf for Monster Hunter, it is most famous for the monsters, not the playable avatar and Rathalos is the OG monster. It makes sense why it hasn't come with a playable character for a while. I would not be shocked if it stays that way, but I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

With the recent "leak" that surfaced a few days ago claiming that Doom Slayer, and a Monster Hunter character (with male/female alts) will be the last two fighters in the Pass, I will say I'm more inclined to believe the Monster Hunter character's bit. I mean, we have Rathalos as a boss, and an Assist Trophy. I know the character has also been mentioned before as one of the potential remaining dlc characters in the Pass, but now... it makes a bit more sense. Having Rathalos in the game up until now still feels like something's missing (something from the Monster Hunter franchise). To give an example, it would've felt weird if Dracula was included as a boss, but no Castlevania fighter's were added to the roster. So far all bosses have an associated fighter that represents the series from which they originate.

Giga Bowser: Super Smash Bros. Melee's original boss version of Bowser; character originating from the Super Mario games. Mario and Luigi have both been characters in ALL the Smash games.
Ganon: the Demon King form of Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We do have Link since the very first Smash game, but in Ultimate we got Young Link's return (the Link from Ocarina of Time).
Marx: final boss for the Milky Way Wishes adventure in Kirby Super Star (Kirby's been in Smash since the very first iteration).
Galeom: Super Smash Bros. original boss (from Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode).
Dracula: the main boss of pretty much all of the Castlevania games. As fighters representing the same series we got both Simon and Richter Belmont; the only two Belmonts to have appeared the most throughout all of the Castlevania games within the old canon story (i.e. story not related to Lords of Shadows reboot).
Rathalos: one of the iconic beasts in Monster Hunter. As fighter representing the series... uh... looks around ... huh... there's still no fighter in the roster. Hmm, this needs fixing (and no, a Mii costume or two won't do).

I'm gonna throw in my opinion on that one. It makes no sense to me why they wouldn't include that character in base with Rathalos being so prominent in the game's modes. Why add them as DLC almost a year after their boss, assist trophy, music, spirit, and stage got in?

 

[Nemuresu]

With the recent "leak" that surfaced a few days ago claiming that Doom Slayer, and a Monster Hunter character (with male/female alts) will be the last two fighters in the Pass, I will say I'm more inclined to believe the Monster Hunter character's bit. I mean, we have Rathalos as a boss, and an Assist Trophy. I know the character has also been mentioned before as one of the potential remaining dlc characters in the Pass, but now... it makes a bit more sense. Having Rathalos in the game up until now still feels like something's missing (something from the Monster Hunter franchise). To give an example, it would've felt weird if Dracula was included as a boss, but no Castlevania fighter's were added to the roster. So far all bosses have an associated fighter that represents the series from which they originate.

Giga Bowser: Super Smash Bros. Melee's original boss version of Bowser; character originating from the Super Mario games. Mario and Luigi have both been characters in ALL the Smash games.
Ganon: the Demon King form of Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. We do have Link since the very first Smash game, but in Ultimate we got Young Link's return (the Link from Ocarina of Time).
Marx: final boss for the Milky Way Wishes adventure in Kirby Super Star (Kirby's been in Smash since the very first iteration).
Galeom: Super Smash Bros. original boss (from Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode).
Dracula: the main boss of pretty much all of the Castlevania games. As fighters representing the same series we got both Simon and Richter Belmont; the only two Belmonts to have appeared the most throughout all of the Castlevania games within the old canon story (i.e. story not related to Lords of Shadows reboot).
Rathalos: one of the iconic beasts in Monster Hunter. As fighter representing the series... uh... looks around ... huh... there's still no fighter in the roster. Hmm, this needs fixing (and no, a Mii costume or two won't do).

IIRC, that was debunked by the person who posted it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm gonna throw in my opinion on that one. It makes no sense to me why they wouldn't include that character in base with Rathalos being so prominent in the game's modes. Why add them as DLC almost a year after their boss, assist trophy, music, spirit, and stage got in?

Well, there is no actual Monster Hunter stage, just the boss arena in which you fight Rathalos which is really strange to be completely honest (Why wouldn't you make a stage with those assets as well). There's so little of Monster Hunter actually represented that I think them as a DLC character works just fine. I mean, I can't emphasize enough how much I don't think we're getting Monster Hunter as playable... but I'll give the same point people use when Spirits discussions come up and say that it's possible they had worked out one deal for base game and then decided to go for Monster Hunter in DLC at a later date (which would actually track super well with how big Monster Hunter World has blown up to be in the last year and a half).

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to believe that than any other Spirit having a similar situation because of the fact that quite a significant chunk of World of Light is based around fighting Rathalos and that they also only have 5 bosses that aren't original in the base game right now, so cutting one hurts (especially with how Galeem and Dharkon are depicted to be equal and share the same number of bosses). Rathalos would be one of the harder things to cut from the base game (and would have been a ton of development down the drain).

 

[TheCJBrine]

I hard disagree that "Minecraft always fit in Smash better as a stage or an accessory" just because it seems overly restrictive for no good reason. It works as well with a character in the game as Animal Crossing does for certain.

This is true.

The character actually does what Minecraft is about. Screw the "perfectly fine as a stage" concept, a character could get in and y'all wouldn't care anyway; it really feels like gatekeeping, a character is always the best form of representation unless it's something like Tetris (though I wouldn't mind some made-up Tetris fighter, either, to be honest).

-also didn't BotW have season pass DLC stuff? it probably came out shortly after release, though, or both in the same year. I don't know, I haven't played it.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Well, there is no actual Monster Hunter stage, just the boss arena in which you fight Rathalos which is really strange to be completely honest (Why wouldn't you make a stage with those assets as well). There's so little of Monster Hunter actually represented that I think them as a DLC character works just fine. I mean, I can't emphasize enough how much I don't think we're getting Monster Hunter as playable... but I'll give the same point people use when Spirits discussions come up and say that it's possible they had worked out one deal for base game and then decided to go for Monster Hunter in DLC at a later date (which would actually track super well with how big Monster Hunter World has blown up to be in the last year and a half).

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to believe that than any other Spirit having a similar situation because of the fact that quite a significant chunk of World of Light is based around fighting Rathalos and that they also only have 5 bosses that aren't original in the base game right now, so cutting one hurts (especially with how Galeem and Dharkon are depicted to be equal and share the same number of bosses). Rathalos would be one of the harder things to cut from the base game (and would have been a ton of development down the drain).

That's a fair point, I suppose. I just don't think it's going to happen because something about that feels off to me. Maybe just a hunch.

 

[Deleted member]

Have I missed anything while I was at work?

 

[CannonStreak]

Have I missed anything while I was at work?

Aside from talking about this...

https://boards.4channel.org/v//thread/474556395/new-information-for-smash-ultimate

I don't think you missed much.

 

[Lamperouge]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

 

[CannonStreak]

I think Geno should totally come with some RNG shenanigans similar to Hero if he does make it in. Maybe Geno Whirl could have a 1% chance of inflicting 100% or something...

The more salt, the better!

And then salt becomes a way of life for us, like these guys.

 

[Deleted member]

Aside from talking about this...

https://boards.4channel.org/v//thread/474556395/new-information-for-smash-ultimate

I don't think you missed much.

It's the same old same old in terms of Smash. Doom Slayer this, Doom Slayer that.