Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Vector Victor]

So, I didn't say anything last night because I didn't want to stress you all out (more) but apparently Nintendo was really trying to cloud the water with this presentation. Sabi's source didn't give specifics on today's presentation because, according to him, it was actually really hard to tell fact from fiction because of all the "noise" Nintendo was putting out. Like I've said before, this is a big reason why I respect him because he only pulls the trigger if he's 100% sure on something. Again, for whatever reason, Nintendo was really serious about not having this presentation leaked and, now that we've all seen it, we still don't exactly know why. On an upside, I'm pretty sure the starling had nothing to do with this presentation but he hasn't confirmed or denied it either.

Its just weird seeing this. Nintendo was being super secretive and wanted to avoid all leaks with this video. The thing is: what was so important?

The video didn't have any bombshells or game changers. Geno's costume was missing but that's not exactly something that requires such security (many wrote him off as playable because of the spirit).

The only new stuff revealed was the online tourney and Hero's release date......which isn't something to surprise people with as many, many people assumed he was launching soon the second this presentation was announced, like Joker's. Basically, making this so secretive was redundant and pointless given the content.

The only thing I can think of is that this level of secret was asked by Square simply because its their stuff. Maybe they issued a deal to Sakurai about the content but he has to keep it under wraps, even stuff we know, in order to build trust again? Perhaps this was a reaction to Erdrick leaking almost a year ago.

After all, the revealed pacman behind closed doors...and let everyone announce him 5 minutes later.

Maybe it was secrecy for the sake of secrecy.

 

[Firox]

Drifting away from genos chances a bit, something im more curious about right now is what changes other characters got....? There’s still no patch notes up and probably won’t be till the update is live, but I’d really like to know already who got the nerf hammer and who got buffed....

The good news for Greninja mains is that he's in a pretty good place right now. He's still strong and competitively viable, but not abused or mainstream enough to provoke the terrible wrath of the nerf hammer. If he goes mostly untouched like he has so far, that would be fine by me.

 

[Deleted member]

Good lord, it has almost been 3 hours or more since I entered here and in 7 hours or less it will be 0:00am where I live.

This thread is really what I needed.

 

[Rohanx17]

speaking of patch notes I'm really anxious about hero's future, I'm going to play solo regardless of what they do but the presentation leads me to believe he will be an object of many future balance patches and even if he stays viable I'm not looking forward to repeatedly changing how I play like what I went through with mega man

 

[Firox]

to elaborate further on this I think sakurai's actual influence is much greater than he lets on. I have a hard time believing that corporate came up with the idea to add joker themselves

I definitely agree. Based on Atlus' claims, Sakurai had most, if not everything, to do with getting Joker into smash. Still though, one could argue that that new hack and slash Persona 5 game coming to switch helped to sway corporate's decision. And on the upside, if Sakurai is as influential in the gaming industry as he seems to be, all the more reason he could get Geno if he wanted to. Now that DQ and FF have representation in Smash, I honestly can't see any reason why Nintendo or SE would deny us Geno. I think it really comes down to Sakurai. If corporate really did hand him a list of potential DLC, even if it was based completely off fan demand, the decision would ultimately rest with him. Here's to hoping he sees things our way.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Throwback to yesterday when people argued that Nintendo mistranslated the presentation time being 22 minutes long

Tons of people were wrong about the presentation in different ways, and there was at least a halfway compelling case based upon people intending to translate the original announcement.

I’m more than willing to own that I was wrong about it. Plenty of people were also saying “it can’t just be Dragon Quest” or “Something big is happening tomorrow (Don’t move goal posts to a non announcement because no one was talking about that)” A lot of People were just wrong in their predictions or comments.

 

[MisterMike]

Its just weird seeing this. Nintendo was being super secretive and wanted to avoid all leaks with this video. The thing is: what was so important?

The video didn't have any bombshells or game changers. Geno's costume was missing but that's not exactly something that requires such security (many wrote him off as playable because of the spirit).

The only new stuff revealed was the online tourney and Hero's release date......which isn't something to surprise people with as many, many people assumed he was launching soon the second this presentation was announced, like Joker's. Basically, making this so secretive was redundant and pointless given the content.

The only thing I can think of is that this level of secret was asked by Square simply because its their stuff. Maybe they issued a deal to Sakurai about the content but he has to keep it under wraps, even stuff we know, in order to build trust again? Perhaps this was a reaction to Erdrick leaking almost a year ago.

After all, the revealed pacman behind closed doors...and let everyone announce him 5 minutes later.

Maybe it was secrecy for the sake of secrecy.

Or maybe they weren't trying to be secretive and they just winged it.

 

[Rohanx17]

I definitely agree. Based on Atlus' claims, Sakurai had most, if not everything, to do with getting Joker into smash. Still though, one could argue that that new hack and slash Persona 5 game coming to switch helped to sway corporate's decision. And on the upside, if Sakurai is as influential in the gaming industry as he seems to be, all the more reason he could get Geno if he wanted to. Now that DQ and FF have representation in Smash, I honestly can't see any reason why Nintendo or SE would deny us Geno. I think it really comes down to Sakurai. If corporate really did hand him a list of potential DLC, even if it was based completely off fan demand, the decision would ultimately rest with him. Here's to hoping he sees things our way.

yeah if the next sqeenix rep the smash series gets isn't geno and no explanation is given I think that the doomsaying about N's apathy has merit

 

[Deleted member]

Sometimes I have this pipedream about Geno being a plot twist character in the upcoming Mario animated movie, such as Vision in Age of Ultron or Spider-Man in Civil War.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Or maybe they weren't trying to be secretive and they just winged it.

Which is still weird, considering that this wasn't really a livestream at all, just a video that got dumped the second it went live.

yeah if the next sqeenix rep the smash series gets isn't geno and no explanation is given I think that the doomsaying about N's apathy has merit

Probably mostly on Square's end. When even Einhander's given a chance to come back in a modern game but not Geno, it shows just how little they want to touch Nintendo's stuff to this day beyond ports and odd exclusives.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Nobody has a 0% chance unless Sakurai says so lol.

Ridley would like a word with you

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley would like a word with you

As a Metroid fan I can confirm that statement.

Back in Smash 4 I used to support a Dark Samus promotion or Rundas because of the stuff regarding Ridley in the community.

Thankfully we got both Ridley and Dark Samus this time.

 

[Firox]

yeah if the next sqeenix rep the smash series gets isn't geno and no explanation is given I think that the doomsaying about N's apathy has merit

Again, I totally agree. No matter who gets in as DLCs #4 and 5, if we don't get Geno, his costume, or at very least any assurances of future DLC, then my only conclusion left will be that both Nintendo and Sakurai honestly don't give a rat's ass about him whatsoever. I want to believe that even in such a scenario, he could still follow in the footsteps of Ridley, Krool and Banjo, and get in by sheer fan-following alone, however, choosing to purposefully omit an already-existing Mii costume doesn't seem to serve any other purpose other than to say, "Give it up, he's never getting in." Granted, I think this would be highly unlikely and incredibly tone-deaf on the part of Nintendo and Sakurai, but the possibility does exist with only what we've gathered so far.

On a positive note, though, the fact that we EVER got a Mii Costume is a huge boon for Geno. It says that Sakurai knows we're here. He knows what we want. He knows it's a long shot, but B-K tells us it's possible. The fact that the costume has gone missing isn't likely to be death by a whimper. It's the calm before the storm...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ridley would like a word with you

>Chrom is typing.

 

[MattX20]

We must remember a certain quote from Sakurai in 2016 regarding Geno that should not be ignored. "To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. "

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine if the first Mario movie trailer features the first notes of the Forest Maze theme right after the logo of the movie appears at the end of it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We must remember a certain quote from Sakurai in 2016 regarding Geno that should not be ignored. "To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. "

Just hope he didn't change his mind about that, too.

 

[MattX20]

Just hope he didn't change his mind about that, too.

Considering that he's considered and wanted the character since Brawl, that I feel is unlikely.

 

[xpnc]

Just hope he didn't change his mind about that, too.

After playing through SMRPG again recently I can say that his attack animations have so much personality and variety that it's almost like he was made for Smash.

 

[Rohanx17]

Again, I totally agree. No matter who gets in as DLCs #4 and 5, if we don't get Geno, his costume, or at very least any assurances of future DLC, then my only conclusion left will be that both Nintendo and Sakurai honestly don't give a rat's *** about him whatsoever. I want to believe that even in such a scenario, he could still follow in the footsteps of Ridley, Krool and Banjo, and get in by sheer fan-following alone, however, choosing to purposefully omit an already-existing Mii costume doesn't seem to serve any other purpose other than to say, "Give it up, he's never getting in." Granted, I think this would be highly unlikely and incredibly tone-deaf on the part of Nintendo and Sakurai, but the possibility does exist with only what we've gathered so far.

On a positive note, though, the fact that we EVER got a Mii Costume is a huge boon for Geno. It says that Sakurai knows we're here. He knows what we want. He knows it's a long shot, but B-K tells us it's possible. The fact that the costume has gone missing isn't likely to be death by a whimper. It's the calm before the storm...

oh no I think that it's an incredibly unlikely scenario espcially with everything we've seen and discovered over the past 4-5 years. the only explanation I can think of for why it could even be possible in the first place would be that the smash4 ballot results were far worse than what we had previously considered and sakurai and the team assumed that they were wrong about geno and the popularity from the brawl poll (which is what I'm assuming got him a costume in 4) has largely dwindled like so many other brawl era pics and he's no longer a priority or worth the hassle, now thats grasping at straws but It's about the only reason i could think of where he would have been dropped AND never discussed again.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

oh no I think that it's an incredibly unlikely scenario espcially with everything we've seen and discovered over the past 4-5 years. the only explanation I can think of for why it could even be possible in the first place would be that the smash4 ballot results were far worse than what we had previously considered and sakurai and the team assumed that they were wrong about geno and the popularity from the brawl poll (which is what I'm assuming got him a costume in 4) has largely dwindled like so many other brawl era pics and he's no longer a priority or worth the hassle, now thats grasping at straws but It's about the only reason i could think of where he would have been dropped AND never discussed again.

Let us hope that is not the case

 

[MattX20]

oh no I think that it's an incredibly unlikely scenario espcially with everything we've seen and discovered over the past 4-5 years. the only explanation I can think of for why it could even be possible in the first place would be that the smash4 ballot results were far worse than what we had previously considered and sakurai and the team assumed that they were wrong about geno and the popularity from the brawl poll (which is what I'm assuming got him a costume in 4) has largely dwindled like so many other brawl era pics and he's no longer a priority or worth the hassle, now thats grasping at straws but It's about the only reason i could think of where he would have been dropped AND never discussed again.

I have to disagree here. The Nintendo Dream interview with Sakurai from 2016 made it very clear Geno was still highly requested even then. Straight from the interview:
—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?

Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.

 

[Rohanx17]

Let us hope that is not the case

I mean the only reason I'd consider it is that I remember the active support during the 4 era was much smaller than during brawl (somthing like 2-3 hundred pages if I remember) and it didn't really pick back up again until the costume and infamous interview that would ignite the hopes of geno fans worldwide, but given that a certain bear and bird were in that exact situation I wouldn't put much stock into it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

E3 2018- Ridley
EVO 2018- K. Rool
E3 2019- Banjo
EVO 2019- ???

It does make we wonder if Nintendo's bold enough to close out the chronic "never-evers" like this. It'd just be too good.

 

[T2by4]

I know p5 isnt on switch, couldve been a mistake or guess, but it is interesting how they reffer to the dq rep as just "hero" rather than erdrick.

Could be wrong, but it is interesting to look at, considering this was before banjo and hero were announced. Check the dates. Sorry if it is a bad screencap, using phone.

Also virginben still strongly believes in minecraft content, so that's something.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

As much as people may want to speak to how far this cycle has pushed things towards fan requests and ideas, it's worth noting that Geno was always in the absolute worst position of any of them. Donkey Kong was still an ongoing series that Nintendo had a vested interest in continuing, so King K. Rool was easy to include. Metroid was much the same and allowed for Ridley to come in, who had never really disappeared either. Banjo Kazooie has more games under his belt and has been promoted over the years in the way of merchandise and references in various Rare releases. Even Isaac has a more recent game and is first party. I know it's easy to point to the first three on the list and go, well, they were requested never-evers so we should be next in line... but none of them have even close to the uphill fight that Geno has for getting into the game between his lack of appearances, third party status as an incredibly minor and forgotten character at Square Enix, and an inability to show up without Square Enix's consent in other games or mediums, of which he never has outside of the Mii Costume, Spirit, and a throwaway Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga cameo. He's a Mario character that has been divorced from Mario and isn't even as heavily emphasized in Super Mario RPG advertising as the trio of Mario, Peach, and Bowser (He doesn't even appear on the cover and neither does Mallow).

I'm not saying this to point out that he's impossible, but just to point out why he might not be in while so many other notable "requests" have managed to make it in to Ultimate. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it comes down to Nintendo and Sakurai's choice of priority with regards to characters on whether or not Geno will get in. I know that's fairly self-explanatory, but I think it's also what has held him back so far. He's the fan request with the least benefit to the partners involved and no other fan request has such a, well frankly odd, history and reputation. It may well come down to whether or not Sakurai is willing to go out of his way to develop a fan request character that purely benefits fans (only the sales would positively impact Nintendo and Square Enix, not really much else without bigger projects becoming a reality) and is also a bit of a mess from a licensing standpoint. It's unfortunate, but I've never really been able to comfortably compare his situation to the others. Again, I'm not saying he isn't coming (well, I suspect not for the Fighter's Pass, so take that for what you will) or that he's impossible, but this is my view on his situation right now.

I know p5 isnt on switch, couldve been a mistake or guess, but it is interesting how they reffer to the dq rep as just "hero" rather than erdrick.

Could be wrong, but it is interesting to look at, considering this was before banjo and hero were announced. Check the dates. Sorry if it is a bad screencap, using phone.

Also virginben still strongly believes in minecraft content, so that's something.

That's been busted on every front regarding the additional content beyond Smash that they reference and Dragon Quest "Hero" was a thing that people used when they weren't sure about Erdrick in the leak days, so I don't really think it's worth paying attention to just for that.

 

[Firox]

I know p5 isnt on switch, couldve been a mistake or guess, but it is interesting how they reffer to the dq rep as just "hero" rather than erdrick.

Could be wrong, but it is interesting to look at, considering this was before banjo and hero were announced. Check the dates. Sorry if it is a bad screencap, using phone.

Also virginben still strongly believes in minecraft content, so that's something.

ROFL "Virginben"....sounds about right.

 

[Nemuresu]

People still use "Virginben" as an insult?

Thought they'd learn after so many times that discrediting him have bitten skeptics directly into their a ***es, but I guess some things aren't meant to change.

 

[MattX20]

I'm pretty sure the Minecraft content is just Mii costumes. They'll be lumped in with Banjo's update if there is Minecraft content at all

 

[Megadoomer]

I'm watching the Hero presentation now, since I missed it after work. Geno not having a Mii costume certainly sounds promising; I'm not sure if it impacts his chances either way, but you'd think that if he had one, they'd reveal it with the rest of the Square-Enix Mii costumes. (then again, there's no Chocobo hat either, and that seems like it would be easy enough to bring back)

I take it that there's no new Final Fantasy content coming along with Hero? I guess I'll find out once I'm done the presentation, but I haven't seen anyone talking about it.

EDIT: I just reached the description of Metal Slash - it seems like that will be insanely broken in Special Smash.

 

[TriggerX]

Well in my opinion this is good news if Geno's costume is not part of this pack, especially since the chocobo costume is missing as well. Square Enix more than likely has more content coming in Smash Bros. I doubt they would neglect a mii costume that had its own introductory video.

Geno will probably just be the "new" Piranha Plant that segways into an all First Party Character Pass. But he will not be a part of the first fighter pass.
Also during the time of his release there are 3 major factors going on within a few days of each-other:

1.)First Season of the smash pass has reached its conclusion by February
2.)March 9th marks the release date of the original SMRPG
3.)March 3rd marks the release date of the FF7 Remake Release

So what I would theorize is that smash fans will be getting content based on those 3 key events.

So if I had to take a shot in the dark.

1. Geno(Playable Character)
2. 1 SMRPG Song,
3. 1 FF7 Song
4. Chocobo Hat
5. Sephiroth(Swordsman) Costume,
6. Barret(Gunner)
7. Tifa(brawler) costume
8. New Spirits(Tifa, Barret, Sephiroth, Mallow, Croc, Boshi, Smithy)

 

[YsDisciple]

If we are to get Smash related news after the EVO 2019 SSBU Grand Finals, chances are it would be either:

a. More info on Banjo & Kazooie
b. DLC Fighter #4
c. New mode
d. All of the above

But those are just guesses. Fingers crossed for post EVO surprise!

 

[Deleted member]

I have a strong feeling that Geno may get 2 songs too from SMRPG if he gets in.

Mostly based on how it went with DQ and FF7.

 

[MattX20]

I have a strong feeling that Geno may get 2 songs too from SMRPG if he gets in.

Mostly based on how it went with DQ and FF7.

And judging from the recent music takedowns of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armed Boss, it'll probably be those two. Though, given that he's a Mario character, chances are Mario music in general would be compatible with his stage so it would be a non-issue.

 

[Nemuresu]

I have a strong feeling that Geno may get 2 songs too from SMRPG if he gets in.

Mostly based on how it went with DQ and FF7.

While I'd be afraid of such, the DQ pack includes 8 songs (2 from different games each). I'm not sure how music licensing works, but I doubt Square literally told them: "You can only get two songs, but you're free to do so for each game", otherwise, we would've had some non-7 FF songs.

 

[JarBear]

Thinking again about the whole Square-Enix topic, I am trying to think on a business level for them, or at least trying to think how they are thinking about Smash.

They have allowed Cloud in the base game and Hero as DLC, which both are their most notable and influential characters. In regards to the rights of the designs, music, etc., the profits the company receives is notably less compared to what Joker and Banjo (and/or possibly the other DLC fighters) would bring to their company. (This has been discussed heavily many, many pages ago about the many hoops Dragon Quest has especially. Not to mention that Cloud is in the base in Ultimate).

Understandably, they may have viewed Hero's release as DLC as more advertising for the West (and Europe probably) than pure money making. (Granted, having Hero in the game for the Japanese consumers is huge.) Since those games do not do well outside of Japan, Smash can open the doors for such franchises that people may not have thought about getting into. (I myself got into Fire Emblem back in the Melee days due to Marth/Roy once it was released on GameBoy Advance.)

With that being said, They still would want to make some good profit off of the "Smash Deal."

So look at Geno. He does not have the can of worms regarding his different rights design wise or music. (The music composer is already on the team!) He has been acknowledged several times based on his popularity by both Nintendo and Sakurai himself.

I would have a hard time believing that either Nintendo/Sakurai has not approached Square about using him as a fighter for this DLC pass or that Square would say "No Way!" since it would be a simple money maker for them. It is an unused asset that would become a temporary cash cow with little to no effort.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Isn’t Square, like, ridiculously stingy when it comes to insider info, with a lot of that “noise” being common when it comes to them? Could be related to that.

That could be it but they work for Nintendo of America so I'm not sure how much control Square would have of stuff bouncing around their offices.

 

[RingJ5]

I know p5 isnt on switch, couldve been a mistake or guess, but it is interesting how they reffer to the dq rep as just "hero" rather than erdrick.

Could be wrong, but it is interesting to look at, considering this was before banjo and hero were announced. Check the dates. Sorry if it is a bad screencap, using phone.

Also virginben still strongly believes in minecraft content, so that's something.

That’s just based off of popular leaks at the time, like P5 Switch(already hard deconfirmed) the IGC leak(Banjo + N64 Classic) and the massive amount of DQ speculation. It’s definitely fake.

 

[xpnc]

I think we won't get any specific news at EVO but we will get some kind of announcement of an announcement kind of deal

 

[Fatmanonice]

So uh, *cough* I have something to announce... *taps microphone* Sabi's source has just confirmed in the last minute that the starling is, in fact, a hint of something that's coming. That is all.