General Ness discussion

[Grim Tuesday]

Sorry, I mis-read. Thought we were talking about crossing-up fair or some ****. Nevermind.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

The person I play most of the time uses Marth and Samus, and when he is actually trying to hit me I tear him apart, but his Marth can usually just shield everything I do and grab me out of my fairs, and if I just try and go for a grab, well, obviously he outranges me grab vs. grab so same result. I end up losing because he shield grabbed me every time I approached. I have started just SH fairing through his shield so he misses the shield grab, so maybe I just need to work off of that. Against Samus, I have started to learn to deal with CC whoring by conditioning a SHed fair then using a FHed dair or sometimes when I time the fair weird I am able to hit Samus with a FHed fair following up with a dair or jump past with DJCed bair from behind.

see, this is where i feel like people are thinking to linearly. Like theres no way the marth you play is reacting to the fair and shield grabbing or reacting to your grab attempt and grabbing out of it. if you're mixing it up properly, he cant cover both the grab attempt and a fair attempt with one grab (tho he can with other stuff pretty easily). So what you just posted sounds like a lousy excuse to me.

but if yur having that problem, you need to attempt to bait more. like if he sees you jump towards him he'll wait for the fair and shield grab. instead you could just waveland away from him, or maybe not even fair and just empty hop fast fall grab him. or many other things.

Your ideas to deal with the ppl you play are good. And its nice to see you thinking independently like that and trying new stuff to see if it cud work. but just remember not to be confined to a certain tactic. and it doesnt end there eventually ppl will figure out your tactic and start countering it and you have to be ready to counter what they do to counter you. against really good players they might only fall for something once before they catch on and start countering it and you need to be ready for that.

really sorry for preaching btw

Also, how exactly do you ledge cancel PK Fire? I was trying to do it before by just PK Firing and then sliding off a ledge; do you have to DJC or something?

my method:

anyways, I figured out a way to almost consistently edge cancel pk fire. I showed it to mofo and toasty and they both thought it was was sick.

It's pretty hard to do though.

You basically have to fall off one side of a platform, double jump in the opposite direction and time your pk fire so it edge cancels on the other side of the platform. It only works on certain platforms though. (All the platforms on pokemon stadium and yoshis story?. They both require different timing though because they length of the platform differ. I think you can also use my method on fod but not on battlefield because the platforms are way too long.

Thats the only way I've seen to use it while also not messing up nesses movement. You basically just waveland/run off a platform and you have a potential pk fire set up with almost no lag after the fact.

It's really hard to master though. And i'm not sure how useful it is. If you miss the pk fire its not tht big of a deal since you have no lag. However if they predict that you're going for it they can just attack you during the pk fire animation.

I've started some pretty sick combos with it though. Like pk fire edge cancel -> to dj fair (while theyre stuck in the fire) -> anything

 

[thesage]

Hey guys. Do you have any recommendations for edgeguarding yoshi at lower percents? I know pkt eats his double jump at around 100% but I'm trying to figure out ways to kill him. I hate how he keeps dj'ing through my attacks... I play this yoshi player a lot and we tend to go even, but usually his stocks last to 150% and mine are to 120%. It's just mad annoying that he keeps living so long. I'm lucky that yoshi is so **** easy to combo.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i dont think ive ever played a yoshi lol

edit: thesage, is your high tier peach?

 

[thesage]

Yea. I tried picking up Fox and Shiek, but I don't play enough to keep up my tech skill for Fox and I don't have the right mindset for Shiek.

To me, Ness and Peach have somewhat similar physics and playstyle so that's why I picked Peach. I also like the mechanics of floating. My djc bair game with Ness is also helping me with Peach. Djc bair is actually pretty good with Peach. I also like turnips. But yea that's why.

What do you guys think about shield pressuring with Ness? I think djc nair, fair, and bair can be used. The uair hitbox doesn't hit in front of Ness fast enough I think...

Oh yea, you can do d-throw -> djc fair on yoshi. Fair is useful on yoshi cuz it's harder for him to dj through it and hit you because it's multi-hit.

I sometimes combo nair -> fair on heavy floaty characters like Peach and Yoshi.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i think peach and ness are alot similar as well

i was picking up peach a few wks ago cuz i thought she was fun. and then i played ness randomly one day and i was like i might as well just keep playing ness cuz they feel similar and ness is cooler al around

i think ness's sheild pressure relies on repetitive hitting while being spaced. hes like a boxer, he weaves in and out

 

[otg]

Once again I claim my "best ness" status by ****** the infamous Ness slayer PC Jona in yet again, another set. Where you at Mofo? Where you at Yedi?

Get ***** on Yoshi's, **** matchups.

 

[KirbyKaze]

But was it in tournament?

 

[otg]

When it's with Jona, it's always in tournament.

 

[thesage]

Hey my name's max. otg is ur name max? That'd be the third person who plays Ness that is named Max. lol.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

otg doesnt play ness

 

[toasty]

Once again I claim my "best ness" status by ****** the infamous Ness slayer PC Jona in yet again, another set. Where you at Mofo? Where you at toasty?

Fixed.

But was it in tournament?

When it's with Jona, it's always in tournament.

LOL! @ both

otg doesnt play ness

He is Ness.
And the little boy always wins

 

[#HBC | Mac]

he did get mad little, not gonna lie

where the **** have yu been toasty

 

[toasty]

getting back on my feet (in Virginia)...**** didn't go so well in Georgia ;__;

Maining Marth...trying to bid farewell to the lil dude...I figure I gotta actually learn my other characters at a high level instead of just dabbling in them so I'm focusing on Marth and only Marth [well, occasionally Pikachu]....no Ness. Not until I'm at a satisfying-enough level with Marth. Which could take a while since I have hardly had any time to play all year [only been to 3 tourneys this year...Pound, Apex, and then a local GA monthly that served as my farewell tourney]

But yeah, I can't ever REALLY shake Ness...it's just going to take me a while to get back into the swing of things and be beastly with him like I was for about a week XD It's just that my friends in VA don't want to play my Ness because the few I play against are in Super Training Bros mode =/


I miss you guys, though... <3

I also miss being better than you LOL

 

[otg]

Hey my name's max. otg is ur name max? That'd be the third person who plays Ness that is named Max. lol.

yeah my names max

otg doesnt play ness

son, I run ****.

Fixed.


LOL! @ both

The only reason I didn't call you out is cause Jona beat them in multiple MM's at some No Johns. Marth's impossible, unless it's otg.

he did get mad little, not gonna lie

Puttig in that 9-930 son

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

My middle name is Max...

 

[thesage]

Toasty I WANT TO NESS DITTO YOU ARRRHGHTWLKEJHRFLKSJDFLKJW EKLFJWELKJFWJTKLFWJWJTWTF.

Also you should play this Yoshi main here in Richmond. Yoshido I think is his smash name. It's amazingly fun playing against him. We three stock each other like every other match lol.

Also I'm picking up Marth and Pikachu. Yay for copies?

But yea more on topic...

Do you guys space with that bat? I try to, but everybody always seems to jump over it. Quite frustrating. Am I the only one that does nair to fair combos?

Also should you always do djc fair after d-throw? Does that always work?

 

[toasty]

there are almost NO "always ____ after _____" [except maybe bair after dair, but's only if you can link the bair to another bair, a grab, an uair (mofovshax), to set up for edgeguard, or obviously for the kill] in Ness's game

I played Yoshido in like 2007...dude was maaad good back then and I wasn't (Read: I got worked)

Don't space with the bat.

Punish.

There are times when you can set up for it, sure, but, much like the knee, if the bat is the FIRST thing you get hit by, then it means you ****ed up.


You're landing nairs now! Good for you =D I remember when you didn't believe it was possible LOL...but really, do fair if that's the only thing that'll reach

 

[otg]

Nair -> fair is pretty ****ing awesome, especially by the ledge. A lot of the time if I nair someone offstage and fair immediately, I snag their DJ and thats the end of it right there.

 

[thesage]

Did I mention that bair ---> grab is the sexiest thing ever?

 

[Reptar]

Im trying to gain a huge understanding of all bottom tiers, and i need loads of help for ness, where and what should i start with, and can i have vid links of what i should end up looking like

 

[thesage]

look up mofo's ness

 

[Reptar]

mofo? i shall do so, thx sage

 

[Jono]

techchasing w/ PKT is amusing

 

[thesage]

Sometimes if my opponent is lying down on a platform I send out a pkt. It is funny.

 

[thesage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM9RF6OWkKY&feature=related

I found another nessby video guys. Would you guys like me to make a "vids you should watch" section on the first post?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That'd be cool, Sage.

 

[thesage]

I'll start it up over winter break.

I tried out Macman's method of pk fire ledgecancelling and it's much easier than the normal way. I was actually able to pull off five in a row. I never was able to do a single one before this day. Thanks Macman. I'll try to masta it.

Some combos I do now...

Anybody else do nair to fair on characters?

Strong bair to grab.

DJCFFL fair to grab.

Uair to ****.

Dair -> bat

These are all amazing combos.

D-throw to fair, dash attack, or uair depending on di and the character.

U-throw to fair -> uair on ganon...

U-throw/uair cgs on ffers

uair combos on dk

Ylink is easy to combo with uair.

Yoshi is like combo fodder too. If only his dj wasn't ****.

 

[Uffe]

That Nessby video you posted, I did that chain throw on my friends Fox. Of course I'm not sure if it's foolproof. Does anybody know if it is? My friend told me he couldn't escape the grab up until after the fourth throw. Even then, I would be able to land a bair in HIS FACE!! I'll have to test those combos, thesage. Thanks for posting them down. I was thinking about using nair > fair, but how high do you have to be from the ground to pull it off?

 

[ChivalRuse]

My fave combo is -

Dair -> u-tilt -> bair/uair on floaties. You can substitute DJC uair for u-tilt on ffers.

 

[thesage]

You can do dair to pretty much anything.

PSI MAGNET IS THE BEST COMBO MOVE EVER.

Nair combos are weird and I don't really know what happens when I manage to pull them off.

CHIVAL! I WILL KILL YOUR NANA THEN KILL YOU WITH MY DEMONIC PSYCHIC CHILD NEXT TIME WE MEET!

 

[ChivalRuse]

I ain't nervous. I'm taking your Peach down with my ICs next time.

 

[thesage]

I will make sure I have the proper nutrition before I head to that tournament. LOL. That was they day I found out 2 eggs and some berries are not enough to sustain me for 12 hours...

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yes. I should not be winning such a bad matchup so easily. Next time, give me a challenge.

 

[thesage]

Hey it was even....

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

Sourspot Nair and Bair make for fun edgeguards. Out of curiosity, what color Ness do you dudes play?

By the way, I'm still having to switch to CF against marth; my Ness just can't approach marth, and one grab often leads to my death. Any suggestions on that MU, anyone?

Also, I don't suppose any other Ness mains are going to Don't Go Down there Jeff? I would love to have some Ness dittos.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

di away, get him to swing his sword and punish. try to be just out of his range so you can punish when he swings

 

[Niko45]

I wouldn't count on this macman guy for advice. His Ness loses to my Roy.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So wait is Fair good or not

 

[otg]

Ness's nair is pretty good too