General Ness discussion

[Sinji]

He di's very well so he baits me by shooting pills then up b under.

I found something useful. If you DJ cancel fast enough you can dair and it wont come out baiting your opponent to shield then you can grab them.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Landing before the hitbox comes out is called auto-canceling, and it's very useful. You can do one out of shield almost frame perfect

Spoiler

(SHDJCFFACOoS!)

and you'll be on the ground almost instantly. It'll work for any aerial (preferably Nair, though you'll only have three frames for it) and it gives Ness a lot more OoS options. DJC in general opens up a lot of options in general. My favorite would have to be quick DJC Uairs, which are great for juggling heavyweights and killing lightweights (one near the ground, one near the ceiling most times).

 

[Jono]

im thinking of picking up Ness for real again, already got some **** up my sleeve i posted around earlier:
- platform techchase w/ PKT2 or waveland -> bat/grab/bair
- techchase w/ dash attack (most risky), or any aerial (might need to wavedash to make it in time), or grab obviously
- unexpected edge drop bairs whenever possible (must have good PKT2 recovery, esp. perfect verticals, use invince frames too, don't do this if they're too close since they can airdodge recover)
- PKT often, PKT well (esp. if you can't fit another hit in the hitstun timing window, KNOW your hitstun timing window. Ness has it VERY strict...)
- PK Flash often, PK Flash well (always when they DI'd far up when it could've been a killing move, never against a shine because you have better options)
- dthrow techchase mixups: I think this is one of the things people should do more often. If you dthrow a spacey, you can potentially bat them if they mistech at low % which usually sends them offstage. I'd say mix it up if you're not confident when you grab them at 0%
- try to catch mistechs with bat/bair, otherwise jab reset to bat/grab
- try jab -> bat mixups
- BAT often, BAT well (remember that it's faster than it looks and hard to punish)
- don't dair shield pressure longer than 0.5~0.7 seconds or you'll likely get shieldgrabbed

Wait a minute. Your friend's Doc is off the stage trying to return and he's shooting his pills at you? If I am reading this correctly, then I'm very curious to know how and why this is happening. Anyway, back on topic. If you can distance yourself from your friend's pills, then try using PK Flash. I can't say it will work, but maybe. Unlike Brawl, PK Flash seem more dangerous in Melee since you can only dodge once. I usually go for that or try to tailwhip my opponent's second jumps or whatever they're doing so they mess up.

Flash only if doc's too far to cape, else you might get hit by it or punished lol

He di's very well so he baits me by shooting pills then up b under.

I found something useful. If you DJ cancel fast enough you can dair and it wont come out baiting your opponent to shield then you can grab them.

yeah if you read that aging longass guide it's in there
best bet is to edgehog and wait for a response, then punish. grab as the pill reaches you so you get invince frames. pkt is risk because he can cape it.

---
experiment, play better, play smart, play in tournaments, get mindy

 

[Sinji]

Dudes.

Whats your worst match up?

mines is Marth.

 

[Jono]

definitely jiggs t___t

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Shiek and Falco.

 

[Jono]

I love PKT, you can catch mistakes on their way down with it
I gotta try learning the Ness v Jiggs matchup with it, uair -> PKT * n times -> uair

 

[thesage]

I just spam lots of fairs and good spacing in the jigglypuff matchup, I do like getting uair kills though. It's hiluairious.

I hate the Shiek matchup, you are forced to react to her, you can't really force her to do something.

And Jono, bat isn't that good. It has a lot of horizontal range, but it is very slow (20 frames) and has very little vertical range. It gets beat out by shffl's. It is relatively safe against shields though.

 

[Max?]

Isn't the bat technically only active for 2 frames?

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Yes, but it's still pretty safe because of the massive range. Kind of like Marth's FSmash without the broken. Safe, but punishable.

 

[thesage]

The short hitbox duration is also another negative aspect of the bat...

It's not safe because the hitbox hits only people on the ground and in front of Ness, it doesn't cover sh's.

 

[Sinji]

whats your fav. thing about ness? Mines is the DJC fair ( when I fair, I fall at the same time to create a magic wall for a split second to protect myself).

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Either PKT, because people see it as so much of a disadvantage while ironically it's probably one of the best things he has, or Yo-yo glitch, because it's freakin hilarious. Put them together and get Thunder Jacket lol

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Sorry for double post, but by any chance, are any of you going to Genesis?

 

[Sinji]

no. but im going to apex.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Attacking air to ground is hard. Unless you do DJC Bair.

 

[thesage]

Djc bairs are fun!

 

[BairJew]

definitely jiggs t___t

Up Throw to Pkt A LOT = Win

 

[Max?]

Up Throw to Pkt A LOT = Win

This dude's tag is immaculate.

 

[Sinji]

or dthrow>fair.

 

[thesage]

If you can get grabs...

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I've been doing some DJC Bair Edge Cancel Ledge Hogs, I suppose it's better than wavedashing backwards but I really have no idea. At least it's flashy looking.

 

[Sinji]

Its useful against spacies when there trying to get back on the stage.

On a side note, yoshi's story is ness worst stage because fly guys mess up his recovery.

BF IMO is his best stage.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I kind of like FD and FoD better (depends on match-up) but YS really does suck for Ness. Randall does seem to help Ness more than other characters though, either than or I'm just lucky.

 

[Salevits]

Best Ness?

Hi, I just dropped by to ask who's the best Ness right now? Anyone have a clue? At least give me some nicks, thanks.

 

[thesage]

Mofo duh. The fact that he was able to do well against Hax's Falcon is really amzing (Hax has a pretty good Ness himself).

I think Yoshi's is not that bad cuz you can't be camped there and it helps with combos. It's not like you're recovering against anybody decent anyways.

 

[Max?]

Top Nesses atm:

1.) PC
2.) Mofo
3.) Myself/Hax
4.) No one really cares
......
420.) Yedi
Suck tier.) Everyone else
Extra suck tier.) Simna

 

[KirbyKaze]

Your Ness is bad get that **** outta here.

 

[thesage]

PC plays Ness?

 

[Sinji]

LOL, Salevits started the conversation and everyone rush in. I'm surprised no one mentioned Toasty.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol max yu make a ness rankings tier list post like 50% of the time you post in here

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

lol max yu make a ness rankings tier list post like 50% of the time you post in here

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Max?]

Your Ness is bad get that **** outta here.

The results thread of a recent Low Tier tournament says otherwise

lol max yu make a ness rankings tier list post like 50% of the time you post in here

What else is there to talk about besides how much better I am than the rest of you?

 

[thesage]

Who are you? I never heard of you. The only thing I know is that you have the same first name as me...

 

[Max?]

*****, i'm otg.

 

[thesage]

What's an otg?

I've starting to follow up more things with pkt. It's risky and only does like 8% but it's all Ness has got. You can juggle really well on stages with multiple platforms and even tech chase with it safely if they are on platforms. Kind of cool.

 

[Sinji]

I think what Max is trying to say is that he's otg (R.Kelly avatar from the past) and he made a fake account named Max?.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The results thread of a recent Low Tier tournament says otherwise

For a second there I didn't understand why you posted this. Then I realized you were stroking your ego / backing up your Ness claim.

 

[Max?]

For a second there I didn't understand why you posted this. Then I realized you were stroking your ego / backing up your Ness claim.

You're so perceptive KK

There's no point to having real discussions on this site, might as well talk bull****.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I like how the Ness boards are the most active when we're just bull****ting around.