General ICs Q&A Thread

[pacmansays]

Sorry, probably the most noobish question possible but I still do not understand how to desynch the ICs..

Is there a specific thread as I can't find one and the guides are too clear on it or is there some specific way to do it?

Feel quite dumb here lol

 

[Likeness101]

Sorry, probably the most noobish question possible but I still do not understand how to desynch the ICs..

Is there a specific thread as I can't find one and the guides are too clear on it or is there some specific way to do it?

Feel quite dumb here lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159767 - There is that if you haven't already looked at it.


I am a new IC player. I want to of course main them in Brawl. My question is, what do I focus on? Chaingrabbing, spacing, desyching, etc. first? Also, how do you do bthrow -> regrab if popo is doing the bthrow?

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159767 - There is that if you haven't already looked at it.


I am a new IC player. I want to of course main them in Brawl. My question is, what do I focus on? Chaingrabbing, spacing, desyching, etc. first? Also, how do you do bthrow -> regrab if popo is doing the bthrow?

Bake the cake before adding icing. Start by learning how to space, how to punish with blizzard and learn to camp with ice blocks. Learn how to recover well and learn how to deal with desyncing situations when the opponent desyncs you. Learn how to shield and how to uair punish out of them or how to properly stay in the shield to not get hit by baited grab attempts. Then do CG's. Be warned, CG's will take a LONG time before you even get it somewhat consistent under gaming stress.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah lol. Most of my play right now is Utilts to catch people( God I love their Utilt) Uair and Nairs following them around and pressuring with Ice Blocks and blizzard. I can get the occasional Fthrow CG to Spike which is avoidable anyway. I hate you good Icies. You make it look easy. :/

 

[Likeness101]

Well, how exactly do you space with IC? This is coming from a former marth main who used the Fair and Dtilt all the time to try and space.

 

[Teh Future]

Likeness you should learn to do simple CGs like dthrow > fair > fsmash. This will make people avoid getting grabbed so they will play more like people do against people that can CG. In general though, dont spam grabs until you get one off, you have to learn how to play ICs like any other character by getting to know their moves, what chains together, and the best ways to punish things.

ICs play very different than Marth, most characters we can make approach through neutral B, but you really dont want to be dashing towards people and playing too aggressive even if they outcamp you.

 

[IxxI]

Is the DThrow>FAir CG even used anymore?
Is it really that easy to tech?

 

[Cold Fusion]

Is the DThrow>FAir CG even used anymore?
Is it really that easy to tech?

I only use it when the opponent is at a percent that they do not receive enough knockback to tech it.

 

[IxxI]

I used to do that, but extreme button mashers make it so difficult.
I guess I'll just beat around the bush with UAir's and walls of special attacks.

 

[swordgard]

I only use it when the opponent is at a percent that they do not receive enough knockback to tech it.

Even then, you can SDI out of it.

 

[Corrupted]

I only want to desync to be able to to FH/SH blizzerd + ice block + FH/SH upair walls. Whats the most effective way to do this out of all the de-syncs?

 

[DZhou]

I'm wondering the same thing. When I try dash-dance desyncs, my ice blocks look like:
___Δ __Δ _________Δ __Δ _________Δ __Δ _________Δ __Δ _________Δ __Δ
How do I make them more even like:
_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ_____Δ

 

[Prawn]

If you have the time the squall hammer desync is a good one,

that or the pivot walking desync.

 

[Hylian]

Pivoting anything will desynch you pretty much perfectly.

 

[Teh Future]

pivoting anything is also harder than any other desyncs imo. After you use whatever to desync you can ajust the timing afterwards anyways. Just dont mash the B button and wait a second to desync them at a better rate.

I suggested doing to dthrow to fair because it is extremely easy to learn in regards to IC chaingrabs and it racks up a lot of damage which will make people try to avoid his grabs and he will look for opportunities to land them.

 

[mountain_tiger]

OK guys, I need your help. I can't do any chaingrabs except the DThrow one. When I try the FThrow one, I can get Nana to grab, but Popo doesn't get there fast enough to continue for another grab. And how do you continue the chaingrab when you get to the edge?

 

[Hylian]

pivoting anything is also harder

So? People shouldn't have this mindset.

Do what is most effective. I can pivot desynch 100% of the time. It's much easier then pivoting in melee.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

OK guys, I need your help. I can't do any chaingrabs except the DThrow one. When I try the FThrow one, I can get Nana to grab, but Popo doesn't get there fast enough to continue for another grab. And how do you continue the chaingrab when you get to the edge?

Try pressing forward slower. Let Popo walk a bit before the throw. I used this. and I've almost gotten consistent in about a week. I don't know if that's fast or slow but it's quick enough for me considering they're a second. People still tend to mash out on me if I start with Fthrows so I Dthrow to Spike twice then start so they can't break out as easily.

At the edge I just bthrow and go across the stage again. Fthrows timing is pretty consistent while Bthrow is harder so I only use it when I have to.

 

[Teh Future]

Pivoting is obviously the best because you move backwards and it is the fastest, but really I only started using it like a month ago because I found it really hard to do. People should focus on knowing what to do when they are desynced rather than desyncing as fast as possible first. Most of the time you desync anyways you could substitute dash dance w/ pivot ice block or whatever you'd be fine.

but idk my own desync game needs work. Im trying to start doing pivot > blizzard rather than Ice block but its already engraved into my head to do neutral b after the pivot

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

P People should focus on knowing what to do when they are desynced rather than desyncing as fast as possible first.

Gotta walk before you can run.

 

[Sieguest]

I have a question...well not necessarily a question but something I would like some feedback on...

I was messing around with all the stuff I read about the Squall Hammer...and for some reason....I gain more height moving to the left with squall than I do moving to the right...is that just me or is it something else?

I would also like to know whether the height you get from squall decreases as the move stales or if it's just something I'm doing wrong...
Thanks!

 

[kackamee]

I have a question...well not necessarily a question but something I would like some feedback on...

I was messing around with all the stuff I read about the Squall Hammer...and for some reason....I gain more height moving to the left with squall than I do moving to the right...is that just me or is it something else?

I would also like to know whether the height you get from squall decreases as the move stales or if it's just something I'm doing wrong...
Thanks!

That's...actually pretty interesting. I've never payed attention myself if thats right. But I can squall going right, all the way under FD and make it to the other end, grabbing on the ledge. I'm deffinatly unsure about the decay in hight.

 

[Sieguest]

That's...actually pretty interesting. I've never payed attention myself if thats right. But I can squall going right, all the way under FD and make it to the other end, grabbing on the ledge. I'm deffinatly unsure about the decay in hight.

Oh, ok thanks! I tried some more...and I can get some height going both ways now....

It still seems that after the third of fourth time of using squall I don't get near as much height...I would post videos...but....I don't have a recorder...

 

[Bellioes]

Maybe your thumb is just getting tired of hitting B so fast so youre not getting as much height as the first time

 

[pacmansays]

Going to seem quite foolish here but how do you perform the d-throw to f-air combo with the ice climbers?

I've read every guide I can find and they all say: d-throw with popo, then jump and f-air with nana then regrab. But the thing is I don't know how to jump and f-air with nana..thats the bit I need explained.

Could anybody help me here?

 

[Sieguest]

Maybe your thumb is just getting tired of hitting B so fast so youre not getting as much height as the first time

I thought that too....but...I had my brother and my cousin try it too we even alternated passing on the controller after we did one attempt to make sure our thumbs weren't tired...

@pacmansays- whenever you grab with popo- hit the jump button nana will jump
when nana goes into the air input the dthrow command for popo and with the c-stick( for GC controllers- the right control stick for a classic controller) input the fair command for nana

 

[rocklee10]

I prefer to Dthrow with Popo, than jump with Nana and perform Fair, but sometimes the opponent flys forward instead of down lol.

 

[Pleather]

Few questions, and for reference, I've been practicing on Marth in training mode.

1. Anyone know offhand how much stale moves affects CG's? I know it decreases knockback and damage, but I also know it affects Dedede's down throw CG in a weird manner. I assume it's not too much of a deal, but I'll be sure to practice in regular versus mode as well.

2. I've pretty much got every alt throw chain down (against marth anyways... I'm planning to perfect it against him before I move to other weights and falling speeds), I mean, it's not 'perfect' of course, but I'm pretty good now. The meat and potatoes of my training is Popo b throw to Nana d throw. I can do it pretty consistently now, but I've become aware of two different ways to do the b throw to Nana regrab. I used to always tilt the control stick back a bit, so nana would perform a walking grab, instead of a dashing one, I'm not sure if that's how most people do it, but I recall reading it from some CG guide. I recently started jamming the control stick back as fast as possible, and then grabbing moments after; when it works, nana (along with the opponent she is now holding) is now facing popo's back, setting up pretty well for Nana d throw to popo regrab. Long explanation, I know, and I might have been doing it wrong up until now, but any comments on the two different ways? Unless someone points something out, I think I'll start using the latter method, with the former, nana would frequently do a sliding grab, and end up pretty far away from popo.
I realize that was a confusing explanation, so I'll try to word it better. I used to barely tilt the control stick backwards when doing a Popo b throw to nana regrab, so that nana would walk into a grab instead of performing a dash grab. But now I push it back all the way, fairly fast, and quickly grab with nana soon after.
Again, I don't know which one is usually used, or better.

3. I've also started to figure out which alt grab finishers I like the most. While testing meteor finishers, I noticed that it's possible to do Popo f throw to Nana fair, accomplishing the same thing that Popo d throw to Nana fair can. I doubt this hasn't been discovered yet, but I'm kinda' curious as to why it's never used, if anyone knows. There's no advantage I see, but again, I'm just curious.

And lastly, I'm having some trouble with the SWF subscribe feature, where it's supposed to email an instant notification when I get a reply to a thread I wrote on. I've got that one option on where it automatically subscribes to a a thread when I reply in it, and I've double checked my email settings on SWF quite a few times. Is this feature not working? I know this is a completely random thread to ask about site troubles, but the only 'support' forum I could find seemed directed toward member disputes, and not forum support in a technical sense. If there's a better place to ask, or if I really should ask in the forum I mentioned earlier, then please let me know.

I apologize for the wall of text, I realize I need some work on removing excess 'wordiness,' but thanks for reading.

 

[Hylian]

Pivoting is obviously the best because you move backwards and it is the fastest, but really I only started using it like a month ago because I found it really hard to do. People should focus on knowing what to do when they are desynced rather than desyncing as fast as possible first. Most of the time you desync anyways you could substitute dash dance w/ pivot ice block or whatever you'd be fine.

but idk my own desync game needs work. Im trying to start doing pivot > blizzard rather than Ice block but its already engraved into my head to do neutral b after the pivot

A set-up I have been using recently is to pivot a jab, and have nana nair while moving forward in the air while popo is jabbing, then have popo run forward.

If my opponent jumps I follow with uair. If they stay on the ground I do a dash grab and have nana either grab or blizzard to cover a spotdodge.

IMO technical things are the first thing you should learn. Outsmarting your opponent isn't always possible if you can't preform most of the options available to you.

 

[Attila_]

gday ice climber boards,

i started using ics a couple of days ago, as i had just watched lain beat m2k at apex (news travels rather slow in the land of oz) and was completely inspired by not only the chaingrabs, but desynchs and sopo use. ive been practicing a little bit since then, and have got the chaingrab (bthrow dthrow) down on most characters, although rarely do i go to 0 - death without stuffing it up. that being said, i do have a couple of questions...

1. how do i charge an usmash to end a throw? sometimes i do it accidentally, but i cant work out what im doing differently when it works.

2. why do the ics own falco and olimar? falco has his laser spam, and oli has pivot grabs, both of which go through blizzard.

3. whenever i cg someone to the ledge, i only seem able to perform the spike with nana. can popo actually do this?

4. whats the deal with the sopo dthrow cg? i can get it sometimes, but not consistently. so i dash grab or walk? and does it have to be diminished?

5. sometimes im right next to nana, and i try to use belay, but she doesnt cooperate. is this because we're desynched even though we're next to each other? can i fix this? and what is the range of belay connection when synched?

i am thinking about picking these guys up as a secondary (so counter d3 and oli) so any answers and advice would be much appreciated.

thank you in advance

 

[Pleather]

gday ice climber boards,

i started using ics a couple of days ago, as i had just watched lain beat m2k at apex (news travels rather slow in the land of oz) and was completely inspired by not only the chaingrabs, but desynchs and sopo use. ive been practicing a little bit since then, and have got the chaingrab (bthrow dthrow) down on most characters, although rarely do i go to 0 - death without stuffing it up. that being said, i do have a couple of questions...

1. how do i charge an usmash to end a throw? sometimes i do it accidentally, but i cant work out what im doing differently when it works.

2. why do the ics own falco and olimar? falco has his laser spam, and oli has pivot grabs, both of which go through blizzard.

3. whenever i cg someone to the ledge, i only seem able to perform the spike with nana. can popo actually do this?

4. whats the deal with the sopo dthrow cg? i can get it sometimes, but not consistently. so i dash grab or walk? and does it have to be diminished?

5. sometimes im right next to nana, and i try to use belay, but she doesnt cooperate. is this because we're desynched even though we're next to each other? can i fix this? and what is the range of belay connection when synched?

i am thinking about picking these guys up as a secondary (so counter d3 and oli) so any answers and advice would be much appreciated.

thank you in advance

1. I use the wiichuck, and I don't know what controller you use, but I know how to charge a smash with a GCC. With the wiichuck, if you time the buttons right, you can charge a smash in any direction with nana. I'm still not exactly sure of the timing, but if you just press and hold the A button, and then any direction immediately after (again, not sure of the timing, it might be that you do it at exactly the same time or something), popo will pummel once, and nana will start charging a smash. With the GCC, you can just press any direction on the C-Stick (set to smashes), and if you add the z button (hold it) then you can charge a smash.

2. I'm not really sure, but my best guesses are that Falco is a fast faller (might be easier to CG), and has a very short recovery. If you can CG to a meteor smash, it doesn't take much damage to force him too far down to meteor cancel back up. Same idea with olimar if I'm right; you can just meteor him from a cg, then edgehog and he's dead.

3. No, Popo's fair is unable to spike.

4. The sopo d throw cg can't be performed on everyone, and only works at really low percents for most characters. I use dash grab, but I'm probably not the best person to ask. As far as diminishing; it certainly helps AFAIK, but I don't know the exact percents.

5. Yea, when they are desynced, belay can give you a whiffed result. I really don't know the specific mechanics here, but it does happen, especially if the opponent attacks you offstage. And I'm unsure of the exact range of the belay connection (I assume you mean how far away from nana you can perform belay, and teleport her to you).

I'm kinda' in your position too right now, so I apologize for anything I don't know, or if I didn't provide the best advice.

And you're welcome. :].

 

[pacmansays]

@pacmansays- whenever you grab with popo- hit the jump button nana will jump
when nana goes into the air input the dthrow command for popo and with the c-stick( for GC controllers- the right control stick for a classic controller) input the fair command for nana

Okay, thanks

I'll try this out

EDIT: Yeah, works thanks..a bit inconsistent at the moment but working on it

 

[Corrupted]

I really don't get the whole pivoting thing. How do you pivot a jab?

 

[Bellioes]

I think I can help you here

The pivot desynch uses a true pivot sort of like dash dancing. If you can dash dance, just input a move almost immediately after you change directions and youll perform that move out of the pivot.

This is good for the ICs because it desynchs them. Its also their fastest method; dash away*>immediately dash forward to true pivot> input move out of pivot. You dont even notice the movement unless you look closely. Itll just look like one second you were synched and the next you werent.

If you want to practice this, just practice pivot desynching ice blocks first. After that, you can practice doing other moves like jab and blizzard.

 

[Sieguest]

gday ice climber boards,

i started using ics a couple of days ago, as i had just watched lain beat m2k at apex (news travels rather slow in the land of oz) and was completely inspired by not only the chaingrabs, but desynchs and sopo use. ive been practicing a little bit since then, and have got the chaingrab (bthrow dthrow) down on most characters, although rarely do i go to 0 - death without stuffing it up. that being said, i do have a couple of questions...

1. how do i charge an usmash to end a throw? sometimes i do it accidentally, but i cant work out what im doing differently when it works.

2. why do the ics own falco and olimar? falco has his laser spam, and oli has pivot grabs, both of which go through blizzard.

3. whenever i cg someone to the ledge, i only seem able to perform the spike with nana. can popo actually do this?

4. whats the deal with the sopo dthrow cg? i can get it sometimes, but not consistently. so i dash grab or walk? and does it have to be diminished?

5. sometimes im right next to nana, and i try to use belay, but she doesnt cooperate. is this because we're desynched even though we're next to each other? can i fix this? and what is the range of belay connection when synched?

i am thinking about picking these guys up as a secondary (so counter d3 and oli) so any answers and advice would be much appreciated.

thank you in advance

1. What controller are you using: For a GC use the c stick and the hold the a button to charge the smash...if it's a classic controller then use the right control stick and hold the a button...as for the wii mote and wii chuck...I haven't a clue...sorry...

2. The IC's own Falco and Olimar...because Falco is a fast faller so the dthrow chaingrab does wonders...and you can even link it into other throws..
Olimars have really good grab games...but since there are two Ice Climbers nana can always get a hit on olimar if he grabs you...plus throwing pikmin can be evaded with squall...(as far as I know...)

3. Only Nana can spike (in my case popo can spike since I like to use the white and white costume alot lately! )

4. The success of the dthrow chaingrab depends on the character...fast fallers like fox, falco etc. are really good to try this on...after you do the throw you want to dash grab...(at least that's what I do...)

5. If you're desynced then belay is pretty darn useless...usually waiting a little will sync them back so you can use it...
Belay can tether from close to the bottom of Final Destination...and...belay also has deceptively nice sync range (if nana is a certain distance away she'll warp to your location and perform the move!)

Hope it helps!

EDIT: My computer fails at life...Pleather already answered...sorry....

 

[Attila_]

thanks pleather and marthage for the answers, they were really quite helpful (and much appreciated, as there was a large wall of questions there). ill try out the dthrow chaingrab a bit more to see exactly how it works, and try to be a little more patient with belay. lol

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

When I'm desynched and recovering I always nair and it seems to synch them back up. Am I wrong in thinking that? Either way it's quick and a nice way to tell if you're currently synched or not. Ice Shot's nice too cause it stalls for a second and gives you the same effect.

 

[KRDsonic]

When I'm desynched and recovering I always nair and it seems to synch them back up. Am I wrong in thinking that? Either way it's quick and a nice way to tell if you're currently synched or not. Ice Shot's nice too cause it stalls for a second and gives you the same effect.

Nair or air dodge are generally the best ways to resync them to recover, so yes, if that was what you were asking.

I wouldn't use Ice Blocks as my way or resyncing them because IIRC, if you try to up B or side B immediately afterwards, they do a desynced recovery (I could be wrong in this though). If you wait a second after it before using your recovery move then it shouldn't be a problem then.

 

[Prawn]

HOw well do you perform cfhaingrabs whilst hamemered?

The asnwe for me is ****ing GREAT.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Any sort of deteriorated mental state helps my CGing.