General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

I'd test PS2, but outside of a platform impeding, only one stage (the short beach) interrupts CGs. The rest are fine.

Yall need to keep up with the metagame since we have ways to CG through PS1 changing now

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Does anyone know the frame data or difference in lag between Short Hop Ice Block and grounded Ice Block? Which is generally better?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How do you do the up-b where nana grabs the ledge and popo lands onstage? Ive seen 9b do it a few times.

 

[-LzR-]

Hold down after Nana grabs the ledge?

 

[Akenero]

Can I have a video showing the timings for the Ic's chaingrabs???

 

[Rubberbandman]

Can I have a video showing the timings for the Ic's chaingrabs???

No.
10WatchOtherIceClimbersPlaying

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How do you know the distance for Nana's length where you can grab the ledge w/ Popo? Is there some sort of video or guide thread that explains it?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

We kinda just guess based on experience.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

We kinda just guess based on experience.

Ok, well how do you maximize the height of side-b? Is it just pressing b as fast as possible? Do I need to jump first or shake the control stick in anyway? I've been practicing it, but I'm having trouble getting full height.

 

[DeLux]

How high do you expect it to go for "full height"

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'm not sure if it is mashing or timing, but again, just kinda practice it more and get it right, alter how fast/slow you do it and see if you maximize it.

 

[DeLux]

I generally just hit the crap out of the special button as rapidly as possible

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I was thinking of the DEHF video where he recovered from waay below on FD, also that match you had w/ Seagull where you Dair'd to catch up w/ Nana then Side-B'd all the way back on stay.

 

[| Big D |]

The question is what now?

[COLLAPSE="The truth"]Ok so I did some digging and in a way I wish I hadn't but here goes.

Let me start off by asking are the Ice Climbers siblings, lovers, or just really good friends?

Nobody really knows for sure, and Nintendo's official statement on it has been it is up to our interpretation.

In the smash series however, there have been two instances suggesting what Sakurai's interpretation of their relationship is.

As you can see from this picture, they share many physical attributes, not to mention they sound a like (same voice actor), it wouldn't be out of the question to think that they are twins on first glance.

During Snake's codec call with Meiling, things get interesting.

Snake: So those two are the Ice Climbers, huh?
Mei Ling: Snake, have you ever heard of a "blood bond"?
Snake: Sure.
Mei Ling: It refers to a bond between two people that's so strong they'd die for each other. The Ice Climbers have conquered frozen glaciers and dangerous mountaintops together. I think they've formed a bond that we can't even fathom.
Snake: I dunno. Seems to me they'd get in each other's way fighting to see who gets to the top first.
Mei Ling: Snake, in China they say, "Though brothers may quarrel at home, outside they defend each other from slight."
Snake: Is that really a Chinese proverb?
Mei Ling: Even though they may get in each other's way occasionally, they'll pull together in times of need. They're an inseparable team, Snake. Don't underestimate them!

Source

This proverb is typically used to describe family members. Just based on this it would seem Sakurai's interpretation is that they are siblings, and it makes sense.

However it doesn't stop there.

While there have been numerous hints that they are siblings, there is one piece of media that doesn't just hint, it exclaims that they are lovers.

This shot is seen 1:17 seconds into the melee intro.

With that I don't know what to think, perhaps they are both siblings and lovers?

Technically we are all related and this was a common thing in the past. I'd recommend watching this video for more information

[12/4/2012 2:48:31 AM] CoF DeLux: maybe
[12/4/2012 2:48:37 AM] CoF DeLux: they are both lovers and siblings
[12/4/2012 2:48:46 AM] CoF DeLux: which would explain why they are ********

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[DeLux]

That probably belongs in the social

But I'll let it go since we're pretty dead lol

 

[Ruinn]

Guys, I've been meaning to ask a weird question.

When you just ko somebody as iceclimbers, and they come back with their invincibility frames, where do you go/what do you do? I've tried rolling away, jumping over them to avoid the invincibility, grabbing the ledge, and other stuff, but I always seem to get punished, and separated. So where do you guys go?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Whatever you feel comfortable with. I go to the ledge or just maneuver around platforms. It's all about reads.

 

[byron]

I have problems chaingrabing certain characters. The only way I can chaingrab to death% is to grab,hit,b-throw,grab,hit,d-throw,grab,hit,b-throw,and hit. I repeat this to like 96-110% the I do a d-throw into up-smash to try and kill. It works on everybody but big people like rob, snake,charazard, ganondorf, samus, bowser, and dk. any advice?

 

[JB IV]

Keep practicing. If you pummel at low % they can escape if they are fast enough. Remember that depending on the stage and where you are that you may be able to kill off of the sides earlier. Otherwise just chaingrab to a higher percent. If you downthrow be sure to hyphen smash or they can di away, causing you to miss sometimes. I personally prefer to backthrow>usmash but uthrow>usmash works just as well if not better.

 

[TheSaintKai]

I'm going to Apex.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I'm going to Apex.

come to a jacksonville tourney and play against ryo.

 

[Folm]

How do I down throw on platforms without falling through?

 

[Crackle]

Either do it lightly enough that you don't fall through or spotdodge the person not grabbing (shield + down) to do the down throw.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

or u can buffer it.

 

[DeLux]

Assuming the point of the question is to continue a CG with Dthrow, spot dodging probably not a good option from a frame data standpoint on most characters. You might be able to get away with it on heavier characters, but good luck trying it on light characters.

 

[Crackle]

I'm pretty sure it worked on all characters when I did it.

Then again I never play Jiggly's or G&W's much with IC's. But definitely worked on Metaknight.

No need to shoot down good ideas without trying them first! Spotdodging is clearly easier than buffering for someone who can't chainthrow on platforms (and is therefore probably not top level play yet). Folm try the option because it's easy and available. Ignore people that shoot down ideas because they want a standard style of play only. They'll get you only to a plateau in a competitive standpoint.

 

[DeLux]

Obviously I tested it before I posted >_>

Spot dodge is 25 frames and Nana is 5 frames behinds is the queue and standing grab is 6 frames. So if Nana isn't immediately spaced (which she isn't in nearly every situation) you are going to whiff a grab

Given that MK's dthrow grab window is approx frame 32 to 35 at most non-solo dthrow percent, it's a mathematically unviable option. Shield drop (which I use) is mathematically possible on all characters, while spot dodge can only work on the heavier characters.

When you say it worked on MK, you probably did it at low percents and grabbed them out of solo-dthrow knock back return.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Obviously I tested it before I posted >_>

Spot dodge is 25 frames and Nana is 5 frames behinds is the queue and standing grab is 6 frames. So if Nana isn't immediately spaced (which she isn't in nearly every situation) you are going to whiff a grab

Given that MK's dthrow grab window is approx frame 32 to 35 at most non-solo dthrow percent, it's a mathematically unviable option. Shield drop (which I use) is mathematically possible on all characters, while spot dodge can only work on the heaviest of characters.

Hang on, so unless I'm wrong, anyone only a couple of places after MK would be able to be grabbed after buffering a spotdodge.
Not that it's very useful, I'd rather just buffer it.
But wouldn't people with a dthrow grab window of 36 frames or longer be able to be grabbed?

 

[| Big D |]

He obviously wants to dthrow > dthrow at early percents so that they can't mash, I can tell right away that was the meaning behind his post all along.

In which case do Popo dthrow Nana bthrow and buffer everything, as this method is just as good against mashing and can be done on platforms...

I just wanted to add something...

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I think you guys misinterpreted his question, yes you can walking dthrow on platforms, you just have to either do it fast(buffer like Daisy said or lightly tap the control stick. F-throw to Nana, bthrow to popos actually the better CG bcuz Nana has 0% chance of tripping. The bthrow/dthrow is still good to do, its just not tripless unless you buffer a nana turn around.

 

[| Big D |]

It's character dependent though, you can do buffered dthrows on characters like Yoshi, but if you try it on MK Nana will just input a grab.

You can do dthrow dthrow on platforms if you input the dthrow during the shield drop, which has a low chance of mashing out of.

 

[DeLux]

Hang on, so unless I'm wrong, anyone only a couple of places after MK would be able to be grabbed after buffering a spotdodge.
Not that it's very useful, I'd rather just buffer it.
But wouldn't people with a dthrow grab window of 36 frames or longer be able to be grabbed?

Assuming your spacing were immaculate prior to the grab, that's the case. You could increase that window by 3 frames so leave the option of a buffered dash grab open. You could also subtract 5 frames from that window to account for throws that are Nana to Popo since there's no delay

Although admittedly I haven't frame tested THAT variation so that's just based off of frame math.

 

[Crackle]

o.O all I know is that I get chaingrabs from very low percents up to death on platforms using bthrow-dthrow and spotdodging. I don't know what the topic is anymore

 

[Folm]

What I really wanted to know was simply how to keep a chain grab going on a platform while using Dthrow at some point, because I would always fall through. I found that buffering a Dthrow immediately after Bthrowing to nana was the easiest, but on lighter characters. On heavier characters I'll just stick to spot dodging. Oh and for the record, spot dodging does work on light characters, including jigglypuff, but I would say buffering is better in that case.

 

[Smoom77]

Learn to buffer the dthrow on heavys too. It takes practice but you can do it.

You should be doing bthrow>fthrow anyways.

 

[Dietcoke101]

What would you say is the best way to string throws together? I only just started with the IC a few days ago, so I can usually get 3-4 fthrows, 2-3 dthrows, and 0-2 bthrows in. Also I feel like my whole gameplan while using the ICs is getting a grab in, but then I just mess up on real players xD Is there anything I can do to either get the grab in faster, or should I just try to focus less on grabs and more on fighting?

Thanks

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For the grabs, just practice a lot....and even more than that.

It is highly advantageous to know how to actually fight with ICs as opposed to just going for grabs.

 

[Crackle]

Try using IC's in matchups they're bad at getting the grab in. It'll teach you to think on your feet with them outside of going for grabs, or even get creative in leading into grabs.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

All I do is grab and it works for me most of the time. Its fun just trying to grab the entire game.

 

[Dietcoke101]

When desyncing, what would you say is the best move to start it off with? I mean I can hit Ice Block well, but it doesn't give much time for anything else.

Also, what would be a good consistant way to desync? I can do triple dash desync, but it's not consistent for me.

Thanks