General ICs Q&A Thread

[Sylarius]

I feel like I drop more grabs on MK and Snake doing fthrow -> fthrow than anybody else, is this just user error or is the spacing for fthrow different for each character?

 

[Sylarius]

I can't edit posts for some reason.
Also, ideally how spaced should Nana be from Popo when doing fthrow -> bthrow?

 

[-LzR-]

From my personal experience MK and Snake have quite tight spacing for their Fthrow compared to their weight class.

 

[DeLux]

I would agree that the spacing windows for fthrow on snake and mk are fairly narrow

 

[CyberZixx]

How hard is it to learn how to do IC'er chain grab?

 

[Demna]

How hard is it to learn how to do IC'er chain grab?

It depends on the person's ability to learn and adapt. Speaking for myself, it took me about 75 hours to know how to chaingrab every single character. However, I do drop a few grabs here and there. Top players practiced for 500+ hours to perfect the chaingrab and they're prone to convert that one grab to an infinite. Personally I was so motivated to learn this incredible technique, I was so dedicated toward it initially, I wouldn't have learned chaingrabing if it wasn't for my motivation. In the end, it depends on you and your dedication. However, don't commit my mistake and learn the non-tripless chaingrab, go for the tripless chaingrab from the start since it provides a lesser chance of dropping a grab (due to the elimination of tripping of course). I personally created tips on learning chaingrabs, it helped me and might help you as well: http://smashboards.com/threads/iceclimbers-chaingrab-tips.336216/
Good luck.

 

[DeLux]

I'm almost 3 years into playing Ics and I still can't CG

So good luck with that

 

[Angiance]

Chain-grabs're scuuuureh~

 

[1PokeMastr]

For the above posts.

F-Throw -> F-Throw, once you get used to it.
Is the same spacing for everyone.
:3

Also Delux lies about not being able to CG.

 

[-LzR-]

It's not the same spacing. It's the same timing.

 

[1PokeMastr]

You can CG everyone with F-Throw CG without moving forward.

 

[-LzR-]

Ok, I didn't know that. Still it's worse than Fthrow -> Bthrow in every way, but everyone can use whatever they want to as long as it works.

 

[DeLux]

You can CG everyone with F-Throw CG without moving forward.

Are you sure about that?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Yessir.

10 characters.

 

[Demna]

Yessir.

10 characters.

Who are the 10 characters? Is there a special procedure that one must perform in order for the ICS to not move forward when F-throwing these 10 characters?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Nah, it was the "10 character post" minimum.

You just have to buffer both throws, or use soft inputs to prevent yourself from walking forward.
It's tricky to learn at first, but it is possible on all the characters.

It's only benefit is doing the F-Throw CG on a platform/ ledge without having to turn around.

 

[DeLux]

I'm going to go out and a limb that I don't think that's correct for quite a few characters at low percents with that number increasing as the percentage goes up, but I'm not 100% certain since I haven't done the frame testing to make a determination either way.

The only videos that I can think of it being done are Bowser and Sheik. Based on orientations, I could definitely see it being problematic with psi kids and MK off the top of my head, possible ROB/Ganon/Snake/tall skinny characters.

If/when I get a no disc loader for Brawl working, I can test it.

[collapse="I'm just going to do speculative procedural stuff so don't mind what follows"]

Ideal grab frame on fthrow is frame 25.
FAF is frame 50.
Standing Grab out on frame 6 with some 20 frames cooldown after.

Frame 0 Fthrow (during Nana's grab cooldown)
Input Grab Frame 14
Nana starts Grab Frame 19
Fthrow hitbox out frame 24
Nana Grabs Frame 25
Input Fthrow Frame 26 - 39
Popo FAF frame 50
Input Grab 6 frames before throw input + 25


Popo Grabs Frame 0
Frame 14 input Fthrow
Nana Finishes Cooldown Frame 25
11 frames non buffered nana grab
Frame 39 Fthrow hitbox

3 frame window for the nana regrab window on the pfthrow, assuming timing is perfect on pfthrow to latest nonbuffered frame hypothetically? Maybe able to augment with buffering Nana regrab? Given then possible/probably 9 frame window for N Fthrow P regrab that are related to each other?

Easiest test method would be spot dodge plus dash grab / meaty nana grab towards edge of stage

[/collapse]

 

[-LzR-]

1PokeMastr I would like to see you standing Fthrow Lucas to kill %. Just do it.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Give me some time then.

 

[-LzR-]

You have all the time in the world.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nah, it was the "10 character post" minimum.

Wut

 

[00-Zero]

So, who are the top IC players now?
I know Vinnie has been putting in work with them but that's really all I know of.

 

[DeLux]

US: Vinnie, Nakat, Esam
Canada: Swordgard, Big D
Europe: Myo, Dany
Japan: 9B

All have some fairly recent videos off the top of my head

 

[NAKAT]

Top Ice Climbers are 9B, Vinnie, and I. Esam included when he uses them.

 

[| Big D |]

I may not be top but...

I can beat Tinman's Rob

 

[-DR3W-]

US: Vinnie, Nakat, Esam
Canada: Swordgard, Big D
Europe: Myo, Dany
Japan: 9B

All have some fairly recent videos off the top of my head

If Big D, Dany, and Myo are even close to considered top IC players, just kill me in my sleep.

Nakat, use Fox

 

[NAKAT]

There is like....no point. My mindset when it comes to competitive play has shifted so much man.

 

[Tin Man]

I may not be top but...

I can beat Tinman's Rob

Prolly not on Yoshi's (since you hobble last time I checked)

 

[| Big D |]

I have no problems chaingrabbing ROB. I think YI is one of the best places to fight ROB with SV being the worst. I play against ROB quite often and I'm actually going to play t0mmy quite soon.

The D you knew a year ago.

The D I am now.

 

[NAKAT]

I couldn't hobble you Tin. Yoshi's was a very good pick.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

A great CP against ICs if u have a decent snake(any char that an ics would do hobbling on) is to take them to yoshi's or lylat as nobody can get hobbled on those stages.


That is like the BEST way to cp an IC's that can't cg heavies consistently like snake. So many people don't know that. XD

 

[DeLux]

Ironically from a purest standpoint, OCEAN banned Yoshi's Island Brawl IMMEDIATELY without question when we played.

I would go as far as to say it might actually our BEST stage against ROB for a variety of reasons, assuming an IC knows how to CG.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to CG

 

[SSBBDaisy]

lol why is Yoshi's good against rob? Cause he can't grab his gyro?

 

[DeLux]

ROB is hard because of the float/nair baiting at high levels, but the large platform across the top negates that advantage. The edges also lend themselves to stuffing all of ROBs options coming off the ledge. The stage is horizontally small meaning there's less space to play keep away, especially from a projectile standpoint.

The con obviously is the loss of hobbling, which of course is mitigated by the fact that we can infinite in other (albeit less idiot proof) ways.

In all seriousness, if I'm not having hand issues, I'd rather fight ROB on Yoshi's than I would on FD.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Well I guess I'll keep this in mind vs rob.

When I cg him and I just Dthrow and pray I don't drop. Rob (being #1 toughest) and jigglypuff are the toughest to cg in my book next to zss.

For turnaround if I feel it's close enough I have nana bthrow and if not close enough I do the trip bthrow with popo.

I'm not sure if there is an easier method >_>.

 

[DeLux]

I'm kind of in the same boat lol

Especially the praying part

 

[Sieguest]

For turnaround if I feel it's close enough I have nana bthrow and if not close enough I do the trip bthrow with popo.

I'm not sure if there is an easier method >_>.

Could always try a soft-turn bthrow.

 

[DeLux]

Probably not the best idea on Yoshi's

 

[Sieguest]

Or risk the trip, suppose it wouldn't make too much a difference. (Steady vs. unsteady hands considered)
Needs a shrug emote.

 

[| Big D |]

For me personally I CG ROB with dthrows and bthrow with Nana Jiggs and ZSS feel like they have the same bthrow timing as Falco if you aren't doing tripless, basically the flicking the analog and grabbing very close together.

I like YI vs ROB only because you can harass him on the ledge pretty easily. Not to mention there isn't a floating/top platform to retreat to, although I personally like BF in that MU.