General ICs Q&A Thread

DeLux

@ChaseTheLux
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You have a 1 frame window to hit an option for Nana to be the only climber to do an option.

Then you're free to act with Popo with whatever you want, like most desyncing options lol
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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One thing I do like about this new site is that all the old threads are visible on one page. I just clicked on the old Hylian thread about get-up options, and I got 5 new ideas/get-up options to practice w/ ICs now :p
 

Ralph Cecil

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How should I play the ICs mu as Snake? D: I don't get to play it hardly ever and so I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips or something about it. o-o
 

Hylian

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How should I play the ICs mu as Snake? D: I don't get to play it hardly ever and so I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips or something about it. o-o
Pull nade, walk backwards with nade, grab, bthrow, fsmash nana.
 

BadKarma

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Is there a way to hobble where the opponent cannot mash out? I know you can do a hobble into a cg and repeat but is there a way to only hobble and not have them mash out? I see vinnie do it on ally and he doesn't mash out so there must be something I'm doing wrong.
 

Riho

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So I've been playing around with IC's and I have a question about the chain grab. I seem to have problems getting a grab with nana (forward throw chaining) after the third throw, so after popo throws the second time. I can get to this third throw pretty well, but I've only made it past it a few times, what's the difference in the timing or am I crazy?

Also, I can only regrab on backthrow if I throw with Popo but i'm not sure how to word a question about it
 

DeLux

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Just practice and get better at it on the fthrows. Pay attention to your spacing AND timing.

To regrab for a bthrow on Nana, you have to turn around with Popo and grab.
 

reslived

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Whatsup. I've been picking up ICs. So far so good. You guys have a good amount of info about desyncs/grabs so I've been able to solo practice pretty effectively.

However, my CG of choice is tripless fthrow->bthrow. I try to watch videos of other IC mains and not a single main seems to prefer the tripless CG. Not even 9B, and he's known for avoiding trips. Why do IC mains use other grabs?

I tried popo bthrow->nana dthrow, but I have trouble with regrabs and the vast timing changes with different weights. I try to work in popo dthrow->nana bthrow when I want to stale the dthrow, but like I said I have serious trouble with timing the dthrow.

Also, from what I understand the PK kids, snake, ROB and others are not easy to tripless CG.

Should I continue mastering tripless? Or should I try to learn other CGs?
 

JB IV

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DeLux uses it pretty often and 9B uses f-throws mainly because the timing is consistent with all characters (spacing is the main issue). Most top level ICs use whatever CG they are most consistent with and because the tripless CG is relatively new not many players have fully mastered it yet. If winning the game came down to not dropping the CG would you use the technically better CG that you might drop or the chaingrab that you have mastered but could (very low chance) trip with? Efficiency over practicality.
 

B0NK

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Pull nade, walk backwards with nade, grab, bthrow, fsmash nana.
F-smash could also be substituted with sticking a C4 on Nana, making her a homing missile heading straight for Popo ;__;7
 

B0NK

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Because ICs can't do anything to stop it and Snake players need to stop being bad against ICs -_^b
 

-LzR-

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Just input the Fthrow very lightly and regrab as close as the spacing allows you to.
 

Grim Tuesday

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I can't make Popo fthrow without Nana moving forward quite a large distance, and vice versa :/

It almost looks like he is buffering it in some strange way

EDIT:
Nevermind, I worked it out, I think.

You have to grab > mash forward, but not to the very rim (the speed is what lets you do it without Nana drifiting forward, and only doing it half/three-quarters of the way prevents Nana from dashing) > grab
 

-LzR-

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Well really if you input the Fthrow very lightly they barely move at all, but I think most characters require you to move a bit and I don't even see why anyone would do that cg, but I guess it's a good starting cg before the real deal?
 

-LzR-

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It doesn't. You have to move around doing it, moving requires space. Fthrow -> Bthrow means you stay in place.
And Vinnie is the best IC in the world and he doesn't use neither Fthrow -> Bthrow or Fthrow -> Fthrow.
 

B0NK

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I prefer F-throw to F-throw as well, it was the first CG I learn. The CGs you use are up to preference. There is no right or wrong way to CG as long as the CG leads to a KO.
 

Vinnie

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>best ICs in the world uses in the world uses it
And Vinnie is the best IC in the world and he doesn't use neither Fthrow -> Bthrow or Fthrow -> Fthrow.
I think we're even. The only results we have to compare are
  • Sumabato, he got 1st, I got 2nd, I lost to kie/him and he didn't lose
  • SRT, I beat him and Otori, and Otori beat him. He got 5th, I got 2nd
  • APEX2013, I got 13th, he got 9th, Otori knocked us both out.
Also I've beaten some people he has lost to really badly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jnFjwXsL5I Brood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4YDC1npqaU ANTi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZFc_kz9bk Otori at SRT



Also - the fthrow CG is good to know, but I wouldn't base my chain grabs around them. I would only use them to convert, like I use f/f on platforms to convert, where it's not safe to dthrow because a climber could fall through.
 

-LzR-

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All right, you are even then :p
Still being shared number 1 is still number so you are both the best.
And one question for you Vinnie, how do you pull of that nair -> edgeslip -> grab so well? I have tried for ages but I've only managed to pull it off once. Most of the time they just don't slide far enough or if they are MK they GSL me.
 

Vinnie

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All right, you are even then :p
Still being shared number 1 is still number so you are both the best.
And one question for you Vinnie, how do you pull of that nair -> edgeslip -> grab so well? I have tried for ages but I've only managed to pull it off once. Most of the time they just don't slide far enough or if they are MK they GSL me.
The highest point of the nair is slightly behind the climber's head, at the top of the hammer. Try to hit them with that. Also I would only try it up to around 20% in most cases. Against Nairo I did popo nair -> nana nair -> popo grab with desync alternating nairs, because he was good at DIing the first nair enough to not slip off. It wasn't recorded though :(.
 

-LzR-

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Is there any way for me to practice this by myself? And why would you suggest only trying it up to 20%?
 

-LzR-

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Because it only works til about that range.
So you mean it works when hitting people who aren't shielding too?
As I don't think % matters at all when shielding stuff.
I'll try to see if I can get better at it, thanks.
 

JB IV

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What are the ways that one can platform-cancel onto a platform while picking up items (is it only d-air or any aerial and are there character specific ways to do so)?

^Same as above but without picking up items.

Is there a theoretically easier(/better) way to platform-cancel or is it all personal preference?
(like mistiming a platform-cancel using u-air doesn't leave you as vulnerable/kill you as a d-air would)

Does using a platform to cancel the end lag of ice shot have any practical uses (combo/grab opportunities)?
 

DeLux

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What are the ways that one can platform-cancel onto a platform while picking up items (is it only d-air or any aerial and are there character specific ways to do so)?

^Same as above but without picking up items.

Is there a theoretically easier(/better) way to platform-cancel or is it all personal preference?
(like mistiming a platform-cancel using u-air doesn't leave you as vulnerable/kill you as a d-air would)
If Dair works, I don't see why the other aerials wouldn't work, but I haven't tested it since it hasn't really come up as an issue against Diddy or any other character it would really matter against. But that's just speculation since I haven't tested it.

As far as I can remember from frame testing, the window is about 4 frames. However, I never tested Dair because you shouldn't platform cancel with Dair since there are substantially better options around.

Try using Uair/Bair/Fair/Shield/Empty Control stick to platform cancel since they all have their uses.


Does using a platform to cancel the end lag of ice shot have any practical uses (combo/grab opportunities)?
Based on my frame testing, there's some evidence to indicate that you'd get about a 4 frame (aka almost nothing because this assumes being frame perfect) advantage plus the hitbox of ice shot out as compared to jumping and air dodging onto the battlefield platform. If the platform is higher than the BF one, but short enough to land with FH, that would decrease the overall theoretical frame advantage from using the ice shot hop. If it's lower than BF, it would in theory increase the overall possible frame advantage marginally. However, you're net trade is you lose the invincibility of air dodge.

There are more nuances to consider than just platform height, namely platform slant being a factor. I've only gotten this twice in practice setting on people, but you can shoot an ice shot up a slant with the ice shot hop onto a platform and have the ice shot hit the opponent on the return down the slant, giving you frame advantage to grab. In some cases ice shot knock back is enough to send opponents into ledge slip at extremely high percents (ramifications on BF).
 

r3d d09

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Watched a lot of YT videos at work yesterday. 9B at Apex was awesome to watch. Did you go to Apex, Vinnie? Thought I heard a commentator talking about how he's in the same car as you. It could have been a different name though.
 

Vinnie

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Watched a lot of YT videos at work yesterday. 9B at Apex was awesome to watch. Did you go to Apex, Vinnie? Thought I heard a commentator talking about how he's in the same car as you. It could have been a different name though.
Yeah, I got 13th. Me and 9B both got knocked out by Otori in losers. I lost to Dojo in winners surprisingly. I have to work on my nerves at nationals. I'm trying to find the exact difference between my mental states between SRT and Apex, so I can aim for winning next time.
 

onlyaaron17

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Don't think I saw anyone on the mentor page, bt is there anyone willing to mentor me to learn ic? I kinda like the huge learning curve
 

onlyaaron17

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Ok need a little help here. I'm reason the threads and such, but I have no idea the following.

What you mean by frames in a detailed understanding and the timing of the difference of how popo and nana grab. How to buffer turn around popo for the f throw b throw cg? The terms and explanations on the guides have been confusing to me.
 

Demna

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Let's assume both Nana and Popo are grabbing the ledge. How do you get Popo to get on stage while Nana is still grabbing the ledge? I'm also having trouble desynching efficiently, any tips? Thanks :grin:
 

DeLux

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The easiest way to do that would be to let go of the ledge, and then belay to the ledge, then input standard getup for Popo 9 frames after Popo latches to the ledge. You can also make this happen circumstantially and situationally, but that's the easiest way I know of directly from the ledge.


You'll have to be more specific on your last question please.
 

Demna

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The easiest way to do that would be to let go of the ledge, and then belay to the ledge, then input standard getup for Popo 9 frames after Popo latches to the ledge. You can also make this happen circumstantially and situationally, but that's the easiest way I know of directly from the ledge.


You'll have to be more specific on your last question please.
So basically when I grab the ledge, I should input the standard getup (Right/left) immediately as Popo grabs the ledge? Will that make Nana on the ledge while Popo is on stage?
Regarding the desynch, I'm currently having trouble in desynching quickly. What I'd do is dashdance and then input a command (usually iceblock), which would ultimately desynch the iceclimbers. However, sometimes that method doesn't work and it ends up with both Nana and Popo iceblocking. Are there any other methods to desynch in a quicker, efficient manner?
Also, there is a method where you desynch at the start of the match by pressing the shield button and then inputting a command. For myself, it works sometimes and other times ends up with both Nana and Popo shielding which means the start up desynch had failed. Any tips regarding this please?
 
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