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General ICs Q&A Thread
- Thread starter smaci92
- Start date
Edit: You said blizzard I'm dumb.Two climber "synced blizzard", the only kind of synced blizzard that exists, is not safe on hit
I win
Sylarius
Smash Ace
Sooo I can do the CG on Diddy, Marth, Falco and Snake (Marth/Falco are similar and I have the different timing down for Diddy + Snake) but I'm having problems 0-deathing every time. Do I just need to practice doing it over and over? :/ sometimes my nerves get the best of me, and usually I drop it once I lose concentration.
EDIT: I can 0-80% on average, I can do the CG best on Diddy at the moment.
EDIT: I can 0-80% on average, I can do the CG best on Diddy at the moment.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Yes, you just need to practice it. If you are getting SOME reps it means you know the timing, but mess up later in the CG.
Sieguest
Smash Master
You should direct your focus now to your spacing, that's usually what it will be that you mess up at that point.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Sylarius
Smash Ace
I'm 100% sure it's not my spacing. :/ I get nervous after about 80% and I miss a throw.
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
^^^ this.
But not necessarily speed, although faster does seem to help.
I am a drummer, so I keep a rhythm going in my head. Actually, one of the only ways to make me **** up my grab is to simply make me laugh, or make a sudden sound or movement that stops that rhythm in my head.
"Yo' Nana so stupid" always gets me. Too bad no one has realized that in tourney yet.
So anyways guys, what the hell do I do against an opponent that is constantly in my face pressuring me so I can't even move and my shield is getting poked, Nana getting killed and I can't grab or anything...
No one in videos does anything but camp so I haven't seen any examples. I'm supposed to be able to punish them, but our OoS game isn't really among the best...
No one in videos does anything but camp so I haven't seen any examples. I'm supposed to be able to punish them, but our OoS game isn't really among the best...
Sylarius
Smash Ace
Woooow thanks.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Just gotta pick the right option oos. Nair, Bair, and Uair are awesome.
Jump oos and squall away if you're really that afraid. Rolling, spotdodging etc.
can someone link to a vid of the dk mu being played correctly?
or at least some general rules?
or at least some general rules?
Latch
Smash Apprentice
Not sure if vinnie played this correctly, but considering that will is the best DK in the U.S. I'd say this is a good example video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaP8wduojnE
3rd match is the only one where vinnie goes ICs, and it starts at 7:10.
Edit: just kidding! Better video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o9gevp5x8c. DeLux ***** in the first game... and uses the 2011 CG to top it off.
Next two games he gets bodied.
3rd match is the only one where vinnie goes ICs, and it starts at 7:10.
Edit: just kidding! Better video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o9gevp5x8c. DeLux ***** in the first game... and uses the 2011 CG to top it off.
Next two games he gets bodied.
The timing must be tight, he will instantly jab when attacks my shield and I barely have time to drop it. >_>
| Big D |
Smash Master
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
get the percent lead and realize pikachu has nothing safe vs ics -salty pika main tired of losing to ics-
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
You're literally playing that match up extremely well. There are a couple of minor touch-ups, like punishing his SH d-airs with a RAR b-air or desynced SH blizzard, that you can do. But you're doing almost everything right, as far as I can tell.
Except, y'know.
APPROACHING. WHY. WHY THE **** DID YOU APPROACH.
Pro tip: if your opponent seems content with sitting on a platform and spamming when he doesn't have the percent lead, let him. About 4 minutes in I noticed you had a STOCK lead, and were chasing his *** around. -.-
Why.
Why why why.
Edit: Sorry for seeming like a doucher. But seriously, yo'. Don't give up an obvious advantage because you were impatient.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
exactly. camp pikachu his options are extremely limited and almost every option is punished off of block very easily
I notice I am also pretty aggressive with ICs too... Why don't I just sit around patiently like I did against our best DK and ended up beating him since approaching ICs is not fun...
I'll play campier next time, gonna hope I beat the **** out of everyone.
I'll play campier next time, gonna hope I beat the **** out of everyone.
| Big D |
Smash Master
Thanks, I have to learn to be more patient, it carries to all my characters, except Snake, which happens to be my best character for that reason.
Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the help.
| Big D |
Smash Master
So camp more, run less.
All of this is great, this pika makes our region look free, so I need all the help I can get.
All of this is great, this pika makes our region look free, so I need all the help I can get.
Roller
Smash Legend
I'd say I'm pretty good at the pika mu. It's definitely my favorite. I've played/beaten almost every US pika player in the country, and practice with Anther pretty regularly. I also mained pika for over 2 years. So. That helps. lol
Honestly, my boy cap'n L was playing that mu about as well as I've seen a pika play it. He won that tourney, didn't he?
But you were playing that mu really cautiously, but in a suboptimal way. If you just get the percent lead, go under one of the lower platforms and desynched IB (/PS if you see the pika go out of his way to wrap a tjolt around the platform to bottom, you have plenty of time to react, the pika has to telecast it and tjolt is slow as balls. Very few pikas try it anyway, but w/e) the pika is in a really bad situation. He'll have to approach eventually. When he does, he's either gonna have to be PSing all the ice blocks to walk up in which case you can usually get a grab by having nana sh->IB and chasing it for the grab. Or they'll try to hit you with an aerial. You can pivotgrab all of pika's aerials if they get anywhere near being able to hit you.
If the pika has the lead just go under whatever platform they are on, wait for them to double jump, and punish their falling/landing. You kept jumping and following, you have to wait for the double jump first. And go to where they are heading, not to where they are when you leave the ground. (you kept doing that)
If they keep not double jumping then start doing empty hops under the platform after their first jump. read how they respond. If they jump in response, then next time just land and suddenly you're on the ground below them and they've used their double jump. Keep doing that and you'll rack up damage over time with uairs.
If they airdodge to the platform in response to the jump then you can either start waiting for it then uair/nair/bair(/landing with them and try getting the grab).
If they don't react, then just uair them.
Basically,
When they camp platforms, wait for them to do something after they jump, then punish accordingly.
Pivotgrab any grounded/sh approach that is in range of you, as well as landings in your vicinity. (latter probably wont happen)
Learn to powershield the jolts, you got hit by some dumb ones.
Don't drop grabs.
desynched IBs > tjolt for camping.
I've yet to encounter a pika that is actually that great at the mu, the ones who do beat ICs are usually just way better players than the ICs they are playing or the ICs ****s up the grabs.
Honestly, my boy cap'n L was playing that mu about as well as I've seen a pika play it. He won that tourney, didn't he?
But you were playing that mu really cautiously, but in a suboptimal way. If you just get the percent lead, go under one of the lower platforms and desynched IB (/PS if you see the pika go out of his way to wrap a tjolt around the platform to bottom, you have plenty of time to react, the pika has to telecast it and tjolt is slow as balls. Very few pikas try it anyway, but w/e) the pika is in a really bad situation. He'll have to approach eventually. When he does, he's either gonna have to be PSing all the ice blocks to walk up in which case you can usually get a grab by having nana sh->IB and chasing it for the grab. Or they'll try to hit you with an aerial. You can pivotgrab all of pika's aerials if they get anywhere near being able to hit you.
If the pika has the lead just go under whatever platform they are on, wait for them to double jump, and punish their falling/landing. You kept jumping and following, you have to wait for the double jump first. And go to where they are heading, not to where they are when you leave the ground. (you kept doing that)
If they keep not double jumping then start doing empty hops under the platform after their first jump. read how they respond. If they jump in response, then next time just land and suddenly you're on the ground below them and they've used their double jump. Keep doing that and you'll rack up damage over time with uairs.
If they airdodge to the platform in response to the jump then you can either start waiting for it then uair/nair/bair(/landing with them and try getting the grab).
If they don't react, then just uair them.
Basically,
When they camp platforms, wait for them to do something after they jump, then punish accordingly.
Pivotgrab any grounded/sh approach that is in range of you, as well as landings in your vicinity. (latter probably wont happen)
Learn to powershield the jolts, you got hit by some dumb ones.
Don't drop grabs.
desynched IBs > tjolt for camping.
I've yet to encounter a pika that is actually that great at the mu, the ones who do beat ICs are usually just way better players than the ICs they are playing or the ICs ****s up the grabs.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Thats why I'm just gonna ditto every ICs from now on. It's way simpler.
Roller
Smash Legend
Only took like a year and a half + a Japanese deathsquad to convince you. lol
| Big D |
Smash Master
I appreciate you guys watching an 8 minute vid(with crap quality) and giving me advice, it's really encouraging to beat him next time and not use another character. I used about 6 to get to WF 
Roller
Smash Legend
Definitely DON'T switch characters. L is a top pika imho and I'm pretty sure he'd body you in a less lopsided mu. (no offense intended, I just have a really high opinion of him and his skill. lol)
You certainly have the potential to win it. Make sure to practice the grab to the point where you literally NEVER **** it up. Because if you don't, and you utilize the options you're getting told here you have a good shot.
At it's core, the matchup comes down to reading the other player. The problem for pikachu is that a read for us in the air=safe uairs (possibly a string), a read for us on the ground= a stock, and a read for them anywhere is usually ~1/3-> 1/2 a stock unless you screw up or soomething dumb happens. It's a game of numbers and guesses in which they have to be right like 3/4ths of the time, and we only have to be right once a stock if we have the cg down.
You certainly have the potential to win it. Make sure to practice the grab to the point where you literally NEVER **** it up. Because if you don't, and you utilize the options you're getting told here you have a good shot.
At it's core, the matchup comes down to reading the other player. The problem for pikachu is that a read for us in the air=safe uairs (possibly a string), a read for us on the ground= a stock, and a read for them anywhere is usually ~1/3-> 1/2 a stock unless you screw up or soomething dumb happens. It's a game of numbers and guesses in which they have to be right like 3/4ths of the time, and we only have to be right once a stock if we have the cg down.
| Big D |
Smash Master
What can I do when he shorthop dairs? Any way to punish that? I' scared if I run in I will get hit/separated.
What should my 4 stages be for starting?
Also my Wario went last hit with him and I've 2 stocked him with Snake before(In tourney and a friendly) since I'm good at that MU, but he won that set so I thought I'd try ICs, since I really enjoy using them.
Edit: This was the second time I met him in WF.
What should my 4 stages be for starting?
Also my Wario went last hit with him and I've 2 stocked him with Snake before(In tourney and a friendly) since I'm good at that MU, but he won that set so I thought I'd try ICs, since I really enjoy using them.
Edit: This was the second time I met him in WF.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
sh dair is super unsafe. just regular shield and you get a free grab, its stupid. sh dair should be used more for punishing then as some sort of a safe option to try to seperate the climbers
Roller
Smash Legend
I just pivotgrab it. If they do it in range where it would hit you, you get the grab, if not then they spaced and retreated it and you should be fine.
Stages in this mu really have to do with preferences, but for me, I usually try to get it to go to YI. ICs camping below the end of the platform destroys pika there. Just make sure to strike PS1, it is one of pikas best stages imo, transformations can facilitate them in timeouts and their camping. CS is pretty solid for us. 1st transformation is basically a better BF, no higher platforms for them to run away on, you can easily corner them/trap them into either landing unsafe or eating uairs. Transformation 2 they can run away on, but they wont be able to get in on you there either; and if they do approach for whatever reason (maybe you grabbed->death'd them on first transformation/transition) you have a walkoff, so even sopo can kill. Last transformation is a tilty FD. ****.
Most pikachus hate lylat. For instance, Pik@pika bans lylat in virtually every set, even over Brinstar. So usually you can leave it and they will strike. If they don't you should be able to win there anyway, lower platforms makes jumping away less effective than on bf, plus lylat can **** with qacing.
They'll ban FD, beyond that it really depends, they'll probably want it to come down to smashville. Not a bad place to go though, conditioning them to shield on the platform when you jump with Uairs/nairs and then pc->grab is ****.
Stages in this mu really have to do with preferences, but for me, I usually try to get it to go to YI. ICs camping below the end of the platform destroys pika there. Just make sure to strike PS1, it is one of pikas best stages imo, transformations can facilitate them in timeouts and their camping. CS is pretty solid for us. 1st transformation is basically a better BF, no higher platforms for them to run away on, you can easily corner them/trap them into either landing unsafe or eating uairs. Transformation 2 they can run away on, but they wont be able to get in on you there either; and if they do approach for whatever reason (maybe you grabbed->death'd them on first transformation/transition) you have a walkoff, so even sopo can kill. Last transformation is a tilty FD. ****.
Most pikachus hate lylat. For instance, Pik@pika bans lylat in virtually every set, even over Brinstar. So usually you can leave it and they will strike. If they don't you should be able to win there anyway, lower platforms makes jumping away less effective than on bf, plus lylat can **** with qacing.
They'll ban FD, beyond that it really depends, they'll probably want it to come down to smashville. Not a bad place to go though, conditioning them to shield on the platform when you jump with Uairs/nairs and then pc->grab is ****.
| Big D |
Smash Master
So if pika spams short hop retreating(going forwards then retreating) dair, I can walk in and shield grab it?
So CS, Lylat, FD, and would I want SV over BF? It seems to me that it would be harder to time me out with that moving platform.
It seems that CS is a good stage, I'll def try and learn that and use it more.
So CS, Lylat, FD, and would I want SV over BF? It seems to me that it would be harder to time me out with that moving platform.
It seems that CS is a good stage, I'll def try and learn that and use it more.
Latch
Smash Apprentice
Hey, so my friends like to play 4 player brawls (no teams), and I always use ICs for that (cuz my olimar ***** them lol), but have lots of trouble getting the win. Any general tips for surviving with the ICs in those games? I seem to get separated then nana gets *****.
Latch
Smash Apprentice
Lol. Side note: I love bungee jumping Ike's aether, cuz he hits Popo while he's above the stage and then Nana gimps him... trolololol
Roller
Smash Legend
I prefer Yoshis most in the mu honestly. Like. More than FD. Ground can **** with QAC, and pika has like no way to get in on your camping there if you're smart and stay below they corner of the platform. desynch IB to force approach. Blizzard/pivotgrab/IB chaser grab if they try to approach below the platform. If they go above it, uair poke them through platform until they are conditioned to shield it, then you can pc->grab them.
There is just no room for pika to get in on your camping on that stage. It's where I took Z game 1. Pretty sure I 2 stocked him there without trying at all... Then again. Z is free.
But like I said, a lot of this matchup is preference. battlefield and smashville are both fine. smashville helps pika a little more with timeouts I think because he can just platform camp when it isn't over the center of the stage, tjolting the whole time. Then he can either scrooge as plat goes over stage, or hop around similar to BF, but on and off of something moving, which can be a little more frustrating at times.
If you can platform cancel well, I'd consider sv, otherwise following my advice on bf should help deal with what he was doing. Just remind yourself in the match to wait for the double jump, then punish. And if he doesn't to read what he IS doing, and punish accordingly.
But like I said, YI is best for me.
AND I CAN'T GET OFF.
