General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

It's not a secret.

Imagine frame 0 is your first action frame coming out of a buffer window. And your buffer window starts on frame -10 and ends at frame -1.

Prior to the buffer window starting, you want to hold full forward on the control stick so that you're at full tilt by -10 to -6. Once you get into -5 to 0, you want to go from holding full forward to immediately flick full backwards and then let go of the control stick.

Wait for the desync to happen. If you did it right, nana will be doing some true pivot confusion while popo is dashing. You can do whatever option you want at that point.

That's LD1. It can be done out of: Forward initial dash, shield drop, run halt animation, attack orders, landing lag, aerial landing lag squall hammer.


LD2 can be done out of: Grab, Pivot grab, Rolls, Spot Dodge, Crouch , IB, Single direction grounded Blizzard, Taunt, get up options, ledge options.

You do one of the things I mention. During the -10 to -1 buffer window, hold full backwards. When you get to the FAF of 0, you wait until you see Popo turn around. Once you confirm the turn around before frame +5, you flick full the opposite direction.

And then you wait for the desync. Nana does her true pivot spinning shenanigan. And then you grab people.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

ala le desync :D

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lux, something weird happened to me. Tuesday I could barely get the 2011 CG and I was just doing the trippable CGs.

Then suddenly the next time I practiced, which was yesterday, I could barely get my normal CGs but I could get the 2011 CGs with like 90% efficiency...on Lucario, Wario, and Diddy. I still CG MK, Olimar, and G&W with the trippable since their F-throws are weird, or their B-throws are too fast for me to get a good timing. **** is weird...

 

[DeLux]

Actually of that group, I think MK is the only one I've been able to conclusively document as to having weird things happen on fthrow.

He's not as bad as Lucas, Ness, and Snake though, but still has weird things happen lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lux, something weird happened to me. Tuesday I could barely get the 2011 CG and I was just doing the trippable CGs.

Then suddenly the next time I practiced, which was yesterday, I could barely get my normal CGs but I could get the 2011 CGs with like 90% efficiency...on Lucario, Wario, and Diddy. I still CG MK, Olimar, and G&W with the trippable since their F-throws are weird, or their B-throws are too fast for me to get a good timing. **** is weird...

With fast b-throws, you can hold down Z with the correct timing during the turn-around and it'll buffer the re-grab. You don't need to try and release it and then quickly press it again.

 

[DeLux]

With fast b-throws, you can hold down Z with the correct timing during the turn-around and it'll buffer the re-grab. You don't need to try and release it and then quickly press it again.

This is wrong


Holding down the grab button out of a buffer window causes the game to read a shield input and you will shield buffer things.

Good try though

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then how the **** do I do it? xD

I swear that that is what I do... Lol

 

[DeLux]

You are not doing what you think you are doing. 100% sure

Unless your version of the game is different than mine

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I very much doubt that, I'll go and do it now and look at my hands.

 

[DeLux]

For a bthrow, on light characters, you would need to hit grab about 4 frames after you hit back ideally. So you would simply hit:

Back on Analog Stick > Grab Button. If you hold the grab button while you hit back, Nana will either whiff the grab or shield, depending on what you're doing.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Alright, looking at my hands I am definitely doing this:

Grab & Back at the same time > Hold grab

And I keep catching Jigglypuff.

Also, I have never messed up a bthrow chain grab by Nana whiffing or shielding, usually she does a back roll if I time it wrong.

 

[DeLux]

She's rolling because you're trying to hit grab the exact same time you're hitting the control stick

Which is what I just said not to do, because you are now buffering shield and then hitting the control stick. Aka the roll input.

You need to hit grab after the control stick, but it's a small enough window so it feels like you're hitting it at the same time.

Holding the grab button after the initial input creates the shield buffer affect with the throwing climber, which is something you don't want to do after the bthrow.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That must be it then. I assumed it was buffering-related because the Brawl CGs are much easier than the Melee ones, minus Wobbling.

So what I am doing when I successfully CG is: Back > Hold Grab very soon after back input > Re-grab?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I know how grab buffering works...I play Pikachu >_>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Sorry for trying to help, I guess.

 

[DeLux]

Nana has a 5 frame delay on the grab input. Plus the 8 frames for pivot grab. So 13 frames after you input grab, Nana grabs. You actually don't even have to hold it lol

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

@_@ I didn't mean to sound condescending, and that was more towards Lux than you (Although you brought it up)

I'll get it soon enough, it is just a timing adjustment. I'm just not used to having to wait more since the f-throw has the same cooldown regardless of character, and normally it is proportional (At least the characters I use it on)

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

is there a particular reason as to why DDD is definately the hardest char for me to cg?

 

[Smoom77]

there is no reason.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

LUX, I GRABBED KADAJ USING LD1 OUT OF A SH BAIR

IT WAS SO SEXY OMAGAWWWWD

<3 so much

Also, DarkFlame is kinda destroying. He lost to Mekos and is playing Stingers right now and is down 0-1 after Stingers made a sick *** comeback.

<3 LD

 

[Supreme Dirt]

That old fusion glitch from way back, it was something like Nana being hit during the combined squall hammer with somethng causing electric hitlag, did that ever get figured out what that was? For some reason I got reminded of it yesterday.

 

[Smoom77]

It was never figured out. As far as I know, I think we disproved it to being related to electric-type moves because grab and tornado could trigger it.

 

[DarkFlameX]

is there a particular reason as to why DDD is definately the hardest char for me to cg?

it is probably just because of his weight class. DDD is a heavy and requires a slower timing, unlike all the lighter class (Metaknight, pikachu, falco, etc). I recommend learning the handoff if you havent already, that is the easiest way besides hobbling to cg his specific timings. I usually do a dthrow to fthrow handoff, try and see what works best for you!

 

[DarkFlameX]

Who is probably the best Ice Climber to watch right now in terms for knowledge or tournament reference

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Vinnie and/or 9b. Vinnie has more videos against people you know.

 

[Vinnie]

It's going to be weird if people start playing like me. I play so weird. >_> lol

 

[Roller]

Men watch Smooooooooooom.























They watch vids of his ICs sometimes too.

 

[Smoom77]

You can watch this video of Smoooooooooom.

 

[Hylian]

It's going to be weird if people start playing like me. I play so weird. >_> lol

I don't think you play weird at all from what I've seen o.O.

 

[DeLux]

^ Agreed imo

 

[DarkFlameX]

everyone here thinks that I play weird :D! but yeah, vinnie will probably my new source of references then, it was lain all up until he started maining MK ):... I would watch 9B, but his style does not fit my gameplay at all. my reaction time/patience isnt close to his

 

[DeLux]

I don't see anything in your gameplay that is substantially different than any other ICs

 

[Smoom77]

Hey guys, I play weird too!

 

[DarkFlameX]

haha well I thought you said we just played drastically different, so maybe you just thought my playstyle was obscure. but yeah, we all play differently in a sense, and smoom, care to play some wifi games sometime this weekend? I cant find your aim, and I never see you on skype o.o

 

[Smoom77]

My aim is smoomier and I'm rarely on Skype.

But my wii doesn't read my brawl disc anymore. Does anyone know if I get a new brawl disc, will my wii read that one?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

no it will not. either pay nintendo sixty bucks to fix their mistake or get it hacked to read from a flash drive

 

[Smoom77]

STEALTH RAPTOR

can you link me to a guide to read from a flash drive?

 

[Cygnet]

@Smoom: Try this? It worked for me.

If pressing Z during the buffer window causes you to buffer a shield, what does L+A do? (I'm actually totally clueless about buffering, so sorry if it's a stupid question.)

A similarly stupid question.... when I try to do the 2011 CG, I Pfthrow to Nana, and then Popo is behind Nana, so when I Nbthrow, Popo..... walks even further backwards and can't regrab. It's obviously a spacing issue, I think..... how do I prevent that? Just make Nana walk forward less during the Pfthrow?

Thanks!

 

[DeLux]

If pressing Z during the buffer window causes you to buffer a shield, what does L+A do? (I'm actually totally clueless about buffering, so sorry if it's a stupid question.)

There is no functional difference between a grab order and simultaneous (shield + attack) order that I know of. However, simply saying a grab order during the buffer window causes one to shield buffer is incorrect. If you hold the grab button down for more than 3 frames (I'd guess 3 for a multitude of reasons, but it might be only 1, not sure haven't tested), it will shield buffer. If you input a grab order for less, it will buffer a grab. This is how one is able to buffer a dash grab for solo dthrow CGs.

A similarly stupid question.... when I try to do the 2011 CG, I Pfthrow to Nana, and then Popo is behind Nana, so when I Nbthrow, Popo..... walks even further backwards and can't regrab. It's obviously a spacing issue, I think..... how do I prevent that? Just make Nana walk forward less during the Pfthrow?

CG faster so you buffer a turnaround instead of trying to soft turnaround Popo outside of the buffer window. Try walking less distance forward with your pfthrow.

 

[BadKarma]

so is it possible to sopo Dthrow CG snake past 15%? I can never pull off this CG every snake I've played has been able to jump out very early. is the frame window just really small to regrab him?