General ICs Q&A Thread

[Hylian]

Jab 1 or Jab 2?

tempted to test

First jab preform the hitlag desynch, second jab popo will jab and nana will grab them at the exact same time.

 

[-LzR-]

Hylian, when do you think is a good time to start using the chaingrabs? At what point am I supposed to be good enough with the character to learn it without being overrealiant on the cg?

 

[Hylian]

That's really just a personal preference. Basically just practice the cgs when you are alone, and then just play and chaingrab if you happen to get a grab when you are with other people is what I would say.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I practiced CGs and desyncs together to be reliant on both, and played CPUs to keep my fighting game up.

 

[-LzR-]

I can cg just fine. I just think it's turning me into a grab happy IC so I wanted to know I really should start using them.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

If you are desynched blizzarding, and as popo jumps and blizzards; Olimar jumps in whistling through it and dairs/fairs. You get hit. The only olimar I've seen actually use this, is Logic. And I have yet to see him get grabbed for it.

it's whistle nair

and to the other ic's, it doesn't matter how fast you do it, as long as olimar do it correctly you are hit

 

[TheSaintKai]

First jab preform the hitlag desynch, second jab popo will jab and nana will grab them at the exact same time.

How exactly does one hitlag desynch?
I hate that I know so much stupid bull**** about a bunch of other characters and not enough about my own. ):

 

[Hylian]

it's whistle nair

and to the other ic's, it doesn't matter how fast you do it, as long as olimar do it correctly you are hit

I mean, you can also fair and dair and hit them while blizzarding without even whistling.

Any of that including what you are doing can be countered by simple pulling nana back while she blizzards. IC's shouldn't have popo jump and blizzard if olimar is near, it's too risky because you have more control if nana is blizzarding. Also, you can be grabbed out of whistle.

What you are saying does work though, there are just ways to counter it.


Edit: I have played logic in several friendlies IC's vs Olimar and his MK vs my IC's but it didn't seem like he was trying with Olimar and lol friendlies haha.

 

[DeLux]

Doesn't Nair get beaten by shieldgrab?
I'm still not seeing how it works. Video?

 

[Hylian]

Doesn't Nair get beaten by shieldgrab?
I'm still not seeing how it works. Video?

Yeah it does get beaten by shieldgrab. What logic does is wait for popo to blizzard and hit him since nana grabbing while popo is away won't do much. It doesn't really matter though because you shouldn't be blizzarding with popo when olimar is right in front of you anyways if you are playing the match-up correctly lol unless they are like on the edge.

 

[DeLux]

But Nair has like no knockback...
So Popo might be hit, but he ain't going far lol


Imma have Fino try this on me

 

[Hylian]

Yeah I'm not sure about that one lol I'm guessing it works when you dont shieldgrab because he upsmashes or uptilts after.

 

[B0NK]

Which desync is this???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPJ-aKyx4XM

First time playing since May, so I'm trying to learn the new (newer?) desyncs as well as the 2011 chaingrab.

 

[DeLux]

That's super old. Like 2009 old.

It's the 2 Dash variant of the Dash Dance Desync. More famously known as the Kakera Desync.
I use it as an semi-aggro option in terms of zoning the IB frame trap

 

[B0NK]

I figured, since it felt to easy to be one of the newer ones lol

Just had no clue what it was called >.<

Can you PM or link me to your explanation of LD1??? Since it isn't in the original thread anymore, and I'm having trouble figuring it out from videos...

And one last question since i'm having trouble doing one consistently so I didn't bother making a video this late, but it just RID > Nana IB, aka what's that one called?

 

[DeLux]

That desync is considered hard since it's a 1 frame window

Reverse Initial Dash Desync. I believe the first record I saw of someone documenting this desync was Swordgard back in 2009.

 

[B0NK]

Thank you! =D

 

[Cygnet]

Hi! I'm totally new (as you can probably tell) !

Sorry to open up with a question about chain grabbing, but whenever I try to do the bthrow in the bthrow-dthrow CG, I tilt back so Nana turns around and walks, but as soon as I press Z, Nana turns around to face the original direction instantly, so I miss the grab. (The same thing happens if Nana walks too far away, I think.)

How can I prevent Nana from turning around instantly like that and keep Nana facing the other way like she should be?

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Well, first of all I wouldn't do the bthrow CG at all till you learn the fthrow and dthrows.
But if you've gotten consistent with those, then I think it's all about the timing.
I'm not sure of the mechanics behind it, but Im pretty consistent with the bthrow CG and my nana is always turning aroud.
Well, she kinda dash dances(running back and forth really fast so you turnaround in place) but always grabs when I hit Z.
I assume that's just because of the bthrow timing, she grabs at the right time.

The reason she turns around though is because she's walking away and the magnetism of popo always pulls her back in when she walks.(or at least I'm pretty sure that's why)
really I would say bthrowthen let go of the control stick so nana stops moving all together and grab.
So the whole CG in detail would be

Grab>down>forward a little> grab>back>instantly let go of control stick(still being sure not to snap it so nana runs)>grab>repeat.

Against fat characters like bowser I perfer fthrow>bthrow though.

Anywho, that may not be the correct way of bthrow CGing but that's how I do it, and I'm eater consistent on most characters.

 

[DeLux]

^ We went so long without having to make me post

This is wrong

not completely/functionally, but mechanically to his credit

 

[B0NK]

LMAO!!!!! -dead- xD

@Cygnet: It's best to learn your own visual and auditory cues, since everyone CG's differently for the most part and what may be easy for some may not be for you.

But what a lot of people say for b-throw>d-throw: for the b-throw, it's like doing a smash attack, but with the grab button. And for the d-throw, many people use when the opponent is flat on the ground as a visual cue to press grab.

Other than that, just learn you're own way. Watching vids may help you get an idea on the timing.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

^ We went so long without having to make me post

This is wrong

not completely/functionally, but mechanically to his credit

Aww so close.
I had disclaimers tho, but as far as the CG itself that's how I've done it.
And it's worked for me, but I guess like bonk said, it kinda varies.
You could always buffer the turnaround, but that's kinda hard.

 

[Deathfox30]

You shouldn't even bother learning the B throw CG on light weights. Just learn the F throw > B throw chain grab and for heavies either use it or soft turn B throw > buffered F throw.

But if you want to learn the B throw on lightweights, the reason you're messing up is because you're tilting the stick and trying to walk. Input a backwards dash then press grab immediately after and Nana will pivot grab. Try the same input you're doing now on a heavyweight and you'll probably be able to do it consistently and it's tripless.

 

[Prawn]

why wouldnt you learn b throw cgs on lightweights??

...wat

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Bthrow fine on lightweights.
Dthrows great on heavy weights, but it's a different spacing, espeacily in freaking snake.
I can't CG snake

 

[Deathfox30]

why wouldnt you learn b throw cgs on lightweights??

...wat

Nana can trip before the regrab. F throw > B throw is tripless and as easy as B throw.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For CGing Snake I recomment just...d-throw d-throw and then hobble when you are 3/4ths to the edge. Tripless and easy :3

 

[DeLux]

I agree with that. If you can't hobble on certain stages, you could just do one Fthrow > Bthrow and then repeatedly Dthrow. Dthrow on heavies is like almost as lax as hobbling in frame window (7 compared to 5 frames) up to like 110

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pretty much. Even if you have to do a hard turn if you don't feel comfortable with doing the f-throw b-throw...its one hard turn per stock pretty much.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Dthrows spacing is har on snake.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

@_@ You're a god damn liar!

 

[Cygnet]

I can do the fthrow and dthrow CGs fairly consistently (except when I've been dthrow CGing a heavy character and then I go back to CGing a light one, it takes..... a few dropped grabs for my mind to catch up), but the only reason the bthrow isnt working for me is because Nana just turns around so strangely.

The problem was probably that I was walking and not inputting a dash, and I'll try doing that today, along with the fthrow-bthro CG, especially because Popo is the one that catches the bthrow and not Nana @__@;;

The input I'm doing now isnt CGing heavy weights because..... Nana keeps turning around T____T

And thanks for the help!

Regarding Snake, why not dthrow all the way?

 

[DeLux]

Stages are a finite distance so you eventually have to turn around.

 

[Roller]

gg

 

[Mr. game and watch]

@_@ You're a god damn liar!

am not!
You have to like hardly move with nana at all.
The timings the same IIRC, but spacings gay.
Where as with tubbos an light waits you just go for it usually.
I can't dthrow snake.
And oddly can't bthrow MK.
I like CGing bowser that's EASY:D


Also lol@roller and eldin.

 

[DeLux]

If you are unable to execute these simple techniques, why do you continue to attempt to answer questions that require an advanced understanding of techniques?

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard that from you, that dthrows spacing on snake is different than the rest (or majority of) the cast.
I take that as fact, then, and if I can't remember something I always say "I THINK" or "IIRC", thus not stating these things as fact.

And you don't have to be able to execute them to know about them... in example: you always sy your trash with ICs and can't play and are bad at the game, yet are still titled as the most, if not one of the most knowledgable IC.

If you're not the best IC why do you often give the best ICs information?
Being a baddy doesn't make you a dummy.
I forget some of the ICs techniques, because there's alot of them.
It's a hard character.
That's why I've been doing more work in my yoshi game.
I've already learned most recorded ATs.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

He gives the best technical information.

For "WHAT DO YOU DO TO THIS CHARACTER?!?" Normally Cheese, myself, hylian, or smoom give the best advice since we are the better ICs.

 

[DeLux]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard that from you, that dthrows spacing on snake is different than the rest (or majority of) the cast.
I take that as fact, then, and if I can't remember something I always say "I THINK" or "IIRC", thus not stating these things as fact.

If you can't remember information, there's a post history that goes back 395 pages that you could look through. Or given that the rules say that you should answer only if you know the answer, you are violating the rules by giving answers you don't really know.

I say "I think" all the time as well, but it's not because I'm not willing to do the legwork to find out.

And you don't have to be able to execute them to know about them... in example: you always sy your trash with ICs and can't play and are bad at the game, yet are still titled as the most, if not one of the most knowledgable IC.

The difference is I give good information. I also AM able to execute all the stuff that I talk about (and generally most ATs) simply based on mechanical or input understandings.

If you're not the best IC why do you often give the best ICs information?
Being a baddy doesn't make you a dummy.

Given bad info damages your credibility. I tend to be respected for my info because I answer what I know and stay away from what I don't.

It's generally why I hate giving matchup advice or critiquing videos unless specifically asked. Mechanics can be objectively right and wrong. The things that make you a good player are often times subjective.

I forget some of the ICs techniques, because there's alot of them.
It's a hard character.

I agree they are hard. Which is why you should ASK questions instead of giving bad answers. Once you're competent with your understanding of things should you start answering questions.

He gives the best technical information.

For "WHAT DO YOU DO TO THIS CHARACTER?!?" Normally Cheese, myself, hylian, or smoom give the best advice since we are the better ICs.

I would also say that my advice is often skewed because my "use quick desync option" play style isn't mirrored by anyone. I get away with gimmicks most people don't when I play :\

 

[Prawn]

Still don't know why I'm not considered on the level smoom and cheese are >_< ah well 1 or 2 more months and it'll be undeniable lol