General ICs Q&A Thread

[Yehitscalro]

i cant seem to match start de-synch online does anybody else find dis?

 

[Sieguest]

i cant seem to match start de-synch online does anybody else find dis?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13192978&postcount=54

 

[-LzR-]

So we are having a discussion about banning MK from Finland. It will most likely happen since I fully support it even though I have to give up my main for it.
If it happens, I will main IC. I am asking what is a good secondary character for IC? And for what MUs and/or stages? Remember this is without MK so he won't be a problem.

 

[Prawn]

Well IMO worst matchups in no particular order are ROB toon link snake Lucario and Diddy I guess(and mk lawl)

Wario is good on CPs and does well in all these matchups which is why I second him

 

[-LzR-]

Wario might be an interesting choice, but I doubt it since he is already very popular in Finland. Any alternatives?

 

[Prawn]

Game and watch but he does poorly vs snake and Diddy(both winnable matchups for ics) and he ***** on CPs.


Other than that it's pretty much D3, Kirby or pikachu.

 

[-LzR-]

D3 and G&W are my favorites out of the group and I already know a bit about them. Snake is a problem anyways since I get ***** no matter what.

 

[Prawn]

D3 is an awesome choice, good on a lot of CPs, goes even with snake, bodies ROB, beats toon link and Lucario.

 

[-LzR-]

The only character of those that doesn't appear in Finland is Rob. Sounds awesome. Too bad our best player is D3 so he knows the MU. Oh well, I'll still try.

 

[ch33s3]

Ice Climbers destroy Lucario, Prawn. The only viable non-MK seconds for ICs, are, imo D3, GW, and Wario. I guess with MK banned Pikachu becomes a good choice as well.

 

[Smoom77]

I like Wario as a secondary more than D3. But I don't use either of them, so it doesn't matter lol.

 

[Prawn]

Ice Climbers destroy Lucario, Prawn. The only viable non-MK seconds for ICs, are, imo D3, GW, and Wario. I guess with MK banned Pikachu becomes a good choice as well.

Nah dude I dont think lol. Maybe.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

IC vs Lucario is either even or in ICs favor. I 3-1'd Trela in a MM when I had only been playing the character seriously for...2-3 months.

Pikachu and D3 are the 2 best secondaries for ICs I would say. Pikachu is good on every stage except Brinstar, he ***** snake, and he goes even with TL and ROB. D3 beats ROB, Snake, and goes even with TL, but he isn't very adaptable to stages.

 

[Prawn]

Er just cause you beat someone doesn't mean the matchup is that way. I feel like lucarios can just hop around and take damage before doing anything then **** ICs or at extremely safe and wait for the one gimp if they aren't taking much damage.

I dunno

 

[Prawn]

You guys are probably right I just think a lot of lucs don't play right

 

[DeLux]

Lucario is like, the most ISSDI able character of all time. They have like, maybe two safe on shield moves against grab in the entire match up.

And even those get punished in some way

 

[-LzR-]

Thank you everyone. I will have to decide between G&W and D3. I like both characters. Pikachu and Wario are totally not for my taste.
Would G&W be a good choice for stage diversity or is it worth the loss of beating Snake?

 

[Prawn]

ICs are good against snake. It's not that bad of a matchup

 

[Myollnir]

You'll disagree with me for sure, but imo ICs-Snake is 30-70 / 35-65.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't see a single advantage for IC against Snake really. The nades and stuff ruin our grabgame which is very important in order to even kill a char like Snake...

 

[DeLux]

Desync IB at a range of like a dash + shield slide + snake ftilt does the following:

-Trashes their nade camping
- Let's you bait an ftilt on dash
- Stops DACUS
- Allows you to alway approach with an IB covering you to protect against an IPG
- Forces them to jump if anything

It ain't always about the grab game. It's about how to zone to get into grab game

 

[Prawn]

You'll disagree with me for sure, but imo ICs-Snake is 30-70 / 35-65.

It's not. It's pretty much even

You guys gotta trust me on this one...I'm pretty good at the matchup. Once you master a few things snake has a real tough time. To be honest it's my BEST high/top tier matchup I know it well.

If you're not on point/warmed up/cging him right yea it's 7-3 snakes favor lol

 

[Prawn]

Desync IB at a range of like a dash + shield slide + snake ftilt does the following:

-Trashes their nade camping
- Let's you bait an ftilt on dash
- Stops DACUS
- Allows you to alway approach with an IB covering you to protect against an IPG
- Forces them to jump if anything

It ain't always about the grab game. It's about how to zone to get into grab game

Yea until they jump and do crazy reverse nade shenanigans. Or they get on platforms and **** you. These things will likely work sometimes but youll get ***** if you even get a little bit predictable. Desyncing against snake to approach can be good but honestly it's super duper risky. Camp snake. Hard.

 

[DeLux]

Stop Double posting

I do not understand how jumping and doing a B reversal with grenade pull beats a grounded option on our part. If they do that, they are committed to nade until landing or throwing the nade, which means spaced uairs on our part.

The point of the set up is to make them jump because they are at a severe disadvantage at that point.

I don't care if they predict me or not. If you IB Chase > DSG at that range when they are trying to nade camp, they are going to either: Get Grabbed or Eat a Nade if they don't jump away. Their options get that limited if you zone correctly.


TBH, the hard part is getting set up in this range if you use slow or non dynamic desync options and aren't mindful of grenade counting.

In my experience, the trade of IBs vs. Nades are more in more in Snake's favor the farther you camp him from.

 

[Prawn]

I'll post later on it. A big description of what I do

 

[-LzR-]

I guess you shouldn't be desynched much against Snake or Nana is easily killed by Snake. I am full of bias since my IC isn't too great and I totally suck vs Snake no matter who I play.

 

[Myollnir]

My friend used to main Snake (now he doesn't main him anymore but still plays it against my ICs because he also thinks it's 70-30) and I play him like 2 times in a week for 2 years so I know the MU very well... I almost never grab him in like 5 matches...

 

[Prawn]

You don't need to grab snake to win.

 

[Myollnir]

I know but if you hit him his nade will explode

 

[Prawn]

not if you space it right?


lol whatver youre right ics get ***** by snake

 

[-LzR-]

How important are the grab actually? Is it more for the fact they don't dare to go for risky attempts or actually being able to 0-death grab them?

 

[Prawn]

With cooked nades even a good nadethrow cg won't work, snake is really good at putting so much shot around him so that getting/doing the grab is hard as hell.


However ICs juggle and edgeguard snake as good as marth/mk/wario once you get him in that spot. Partly cause of the fact that theyd rather take damage then get grabbed. Desyncs to punish his landings are really good too, and spacing your hammers with uair/bairs/nairs on platform campers won't blow up nades.


Vinnie gave me the best advice "just walk ice block juggle and grab him if you can".

If you iceblock smart you can out camp snake and wait for him to mess up or bait him to you

I will write more if this makes any sense?

 

[Prawn]

Oh and if snakes are dacusing at you with nades in hand slap em with tilts and bairs. Kinda play like marth vs good snakes cause fishing for a grab gets you *****

Dtilting a snake even on stage can put him in an awful position
QQ double post

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Guys, you should be playing Snake to time out.

FD is actually bad in this MU.

Platforms help because you can IB if they are down low and still easily jump over grenades. You should only be getting grabs if they get super SUPER aggressive because they are getting impatient. Grenades are really easy to avoid, so when you don't get hit for 45 seconds they might try to approach you and separate you instead.

 

[Prawn]

Yep yep yep you're so smart esam :D although I do best vs snake on fd...? Lol

 

[MARLX]

What is ice climbers momentom cancel?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Then the Snake is bad. Trust me, it is terrible in that MU.

 

[Vinnie]

I like FD as well vs Snake.

 

[Prawn]

Yea ive only taken games off gaytal on FD

 

[-LzR-]

About the grabs I was meaning overall for any MU. Are they more important for being scary than actually being used? I would see it making Nana a lot safer when they don't want to risk it if they try to take her out.