Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Nintendude]

I'm registered.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm registered also, wobbles and aznlep should both register...

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm registered.

 

[Wobbles]

Hey guys. If you aren't reading this thread:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279010

You should be.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I read the thread, although I don't have anything to add to it at the moment.

I wanted to compare ICs to Zangief, but you already did that. >:[

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Looks at my avatar, waits for everyone to catchup.

Ill wait.

;]

 

[MooseEatsBear]

I'm registered.

Chival, take me with you. D: I'm gonna be on vacation, and being a minor parents are all NO U.

 

[PB&J]

im registering today//figuring out who im teaming with now

 

[PEEF!]

Dthrow>reverse iceblock does not work. It is a novelty CG. THe opponent can do whatever they'd like to get out of it. They can even waveland.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Edit -- Some things about d-throw -> reverse ice block:

* It's character-dependent because weight modifies the length of d-throw. Popo takes longer to recover against heavier characters after releasing them, which is why you can't d-throw cg characters like Link/Ganon for very long.

* Jigglypuff is too light. As far as I can tell, you would need to start the ice block before you actually d-throw her, which I don't think is possible because when you input back for the reverse ice block Popo will b-throw instead. The same goes for Pichu, and maybe some other characters.

* Ice block does not keep them in stun the entire time. I don't know the exact number, but I think it has ~8 hitstun. After a character is released from d-throw, Popo doesn't recover for 14 frames (this is the base number; it's higher for heavier characters and lower for lighter characters), and grab takes another 7 frames. If you hit them with ice block ~13 frames after they're released, you might be able to keep them in stun the whole time, but then DI could probably take them out of your standing grab range. We probably could use some Magus insight here because I don't know if this would be a legitimate chaingrab on any character, but I think it will work best against lighter characters like space animals.

* F-throw is not weight-dependent, but it also takes Popo longer to recover from the throw, and if you f-throw -> reverse ice block or f-throw -> ice block (so that both the hammer and the ice block hit) you will always have to dash grab. If the ice block somehow doesn't cancel out the hitstun from the hammer, it might be better against heavier characters.

For example, Fox is released from d-throw on frame 27, and Popo can start his grab on frame 38, so there would be 17 total dead frames between when Fox is released and when Popo's grab hitbox comes out. Ice block has ~8 hitstun, so at the very most Fox is out of stun for 9 frames. If the ice block is delayed (i.e. it hits Fox some number of frames after he's released from d-throw) it would be less than that.

If you don't keep them in stun the entire time, any character could escape by mashing R/L/X/Y to airdodge or jump away. But if the other player is trying to input a specific kind of DI, this might be able to catch them off guard. Fox/Falco will usually try to DI down/away and probably won't mash jump, which is why I mentioned this as a possible mix-up for d-throw d-air. Fox and Falco are also light enough that slightly delayed ice block is almost a legitimate chaingrab.

 

[Wobbles]

Does anybody dislike the d-throw block-hammer CG on Fox/Falco/Falcon/ProbablyRoy? I think it's pretty neato.

 

[Kyu Puff]

My only problem with it is that it becomes escapable too quickly. At low percentages (maybe to like 50% on Fox) it works really well though. *nostalgic for old domo vids*

Edit -- By the way, I think if you get hit out of ice block in the air, it still counts as a "whole" ice block and won't reset until you land. So if you're playing against Falco, for example, you might be able to ice block into a laser and then land with an aerial to get non-reset ice blocks.

 

[Wobbles]

Mainly I'm just a fan of any new grab that forces the opponent to think, "what should I be looking for?" It confuses their reflexes and hopefully the timing on things like d-throw d-air.

Say you're underneath the right platform of Battlefield, facing in with a grab on Fox; your opponent has proven to be really good at getting out of d-throw d-air. D-throw hammer, DI'ed out, will send him to the middle of the stage away from the platforms, letting you regrab easily. Unless he has experience against you specifically, this will confuse the other guy and make him start thinking about where to DI to reach a platform. Odds are, he will fail to hit his d-throw d-air smash DI timing and that will let you build some extra damage with your normal CG.

I dunno, I focus heavily on messing with my opponent's DI, especially if they're a proficient wiggler.

 

[Dogysamich]

im registering today//figuring out who im teaming with now

oh man, i'm not gunna lie.

I actually got a lil salty like "Why the f*** is this man posting in here too? f***."

Then I paused for a second, and was like "... oh wait, he actually mains ice kids."



Ah man midnight moderating is the byest.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love gimping spacies who always do escape DI for d-throw dair. D-throw d-smash!!

 

[smakis]

how diable is uair at lower %? Been fooling around against spacies and uthrow > nana uair > nana desynched usmash sets up for pretty much anything you want, dashattacks, grabs, you name it.

Got a feeling that it shouldnt be that hard to follow up with nanas usmash if you get a grab below 10 %.

Also fthrow > reverse dashattack sends them back for anything you want if they di towards, if they di away they gets sent straight up which you should be able to follow with another dashattack or other stuff lol

 

[Nintendude]

I love gimping spacies who always do escape DI for d-throw dair. D-throw d-smash!!

Yeah, this is great. Something that works is wonders is if a spacie attempts to DI away/escape and FAILS, the next time, if he has at least mid %, just d-throw d-smash and pretty much every time you'll kill him.

Against someone who isn't able to escape, I like to follow up d-throw dair with d-throw f-smash regrab. Then I'll do a second one and release the smash early to usually catch them with bad DI. It's so easy and fun to get into people's heads by mixing up even just these two simple chaingrabs.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Hi, guys. I'm a little new to the Ice Climbers and I kinda had a question about chaingrabbing: when you are chaingrabbing, when popo throws and nana regrabs right away, can you control which way nana throws? Because I've been messing around with the Ice Climbers and she has down thrown several times when I didn't even point the control stick down...

 

[Kyu Puff]

Her throw is random. The only exception is that if you're near a ledge she'll always b-throw or f-throw towards it.

Yesterday I experimented with platforms against Peach, and it worked better than I could've imagined (now I understand why Wobbles says he likes Battlefield better than FD). If you try to stay on the ground, you eventually get pressured toward an edge, or forced to shield a move you don't want to shield, or baited by false openings. But if you stay on platforms, you never run out of space, and you can bait her into the air without the risk of ever being d-smashed. I landed more u-airs from being above her than I did from trying to predict her float from below...

Also, how do you beat a Fox who just runs away and camps the entire time? I've been losing to this strategy way too much recently... I can't figure out how to approach him without completely guessing and making myself vulnerable, or how to outwait him when I'm taking a ton of residual damage from lasers.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I played Connor's Peach a while ago (only in a friendly, but whatever) and beat him solidly by essentially camping the top platform on Yoshi's and occasionally dropping down to bair him, then riding my momentum as long as I could and then going back to the top platform. I'd go the side platforms every now and then when it seemed appropriate, but mainly stuck to the top one since Peach for all practical purposes cannot approach you from the side or from above. The same sort of thing should work similarly on larger stages; it should be easier avoid Peach, but harder to KO her.

First of all, always strike BF and Dreamland against platform-happy Foxes. If Fox takes you to BF/Dreamland/DK64/etc., the best thing I can suggest is to remain patient and look for just one habit that you can punish. You might not know exactly how he is going to move around 90% of the time, but as long as you can find one situation where you know what he'll do and can punish him, and if you can force that situation to occur, then you should be able to deal a decent amount of damage in that situation because you are the ICs.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-throw -> Nana SH nair -> Popo (dash forward JC) regrab seems to work reliably on Falcon. It works on floaties below like 20%, but on Falcon it seems to go well past that. I was able to do several nair cgs in succession. What's really nice is that if you're about a third of a wavedash's distance away from the ledge and facing it, you can do this and immediately be put within proximity for handoff.

One thing I got to work against a good Falcon was d-throw -> Nana SH nair -> Popo wd f-smash at around 100%. He missed the DI and died.

 

[Nintendude]

Has anyone come up with a good gimp attempt after b-throwing someone off the edge as Popo? I've tried stuff like turn around blizzard vs. fastfallers, wd to edge -> ledgehop nair, f-smash, stay on edge, etc. but nothing ever seems to work.

 

[PB&J]

i back throw blizzard wave dash to dtilt or jab..if it hits( hits 50/50) the fast fallers are forced to ub b and then u should get the edge guard

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I do bthrow -> ice block a lot nowadays. Some people will double jump into the ice block, which then forces them to up-B. You can then go for fsmash/dsmash/repeated ledgehop dairs/etc. A funny thing is that many people in Socal are used to me doing bthrow -> blizzard, so they shine stall in anticipation of the blizzard, but when I shoot an ice block instead, it often hits their shine, which traps them in the shine long enough that they end up in a bad position anyways.

edit: Don't be afraid to go for suicide KOs if it'll improve your condition. A while ago I was playing a Fox in a friendly and I got him off-stage one way or another. I was at something like 90% with Sopo and he was at 30-ish%, IIRC, we both had 4 stocks, and he was recovering low; I didn't know exactly what he was going to do, so I just wavedashed off and did fastfall -> dair to KO both of us. Nair/bair probably would have been better. Also, if your opponent is on his last stock and you're not, SD KOs are great.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fly is as wise as he is long-haired.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

My hair hasn't been super-long for a few months. It currently only goes a little past my shoulders.

Maybe that reflects my tendency to become more idiotic over the summer.

 

[KirbyKaze]

>:[

Fly stop correcting me with your petty logic.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Did nobody see my post?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'll try it out. Nair CGs generally haven't worked as well as I've wished they would, but I haven't experimented much on Falcon, mainly since we already have a really solid grab game on him.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I only saw your avatar.

 

[Vts]

Bleh got 2nd at ARK2 lost to chamberlin (fox) in grandfinals 4/7 for 2 sets was dumb lol

but i tried did really well going all IC beat everyone in winners then choked up about 1/2 through grandfinals sets ><

gotta learn that hand off.

but it was my crew in top 5 lol

matches will be up later where you can see me rage quit once .

wobbles i felt like you during grand finals my controller was covered in sweat and missed so many buttons cus of just slipping lol

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah, I'm usually a nervous wreck.

Ready to choke at APEX ;P

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm gonna hunt you down and make you teach me stuff at Apex, Rob. <3

 

[Ballistics]

you gotta win wobbles >.<

 

[Wobbles]

Oh. Alright. I got this.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

You got this.

You should have see M2k go Peach vs Chok and then Chok went dead even with him.

Icy's stepping it up.

Im ready to see one win a national.

 

[Nintendude]

I really hope I don't end up in any of your guys' pools lol

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I hope all of you end up in the same pool.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I hope all of you end up in the same pool.

Quoted for the awesome.

 

[choknater]

m2k is terrible at the matchup lol id get 3 stocked by pink shinobi all dai

(he is the best at the matchup )

norcal all dai, dont go down there jeff trailer is TOO GOOD

some day i will beat replicate