Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Alpha Dash]

RE fox's shine: something to watch out for this, it separates IC like crazy if fox does a shine strait to a side-B attack this will send nana strait in the air, if at a high percent they will follow through with a Uair and of course - no more nana. Smakis you may have noticed but Professor Pro did this on you a few times its a really good tactic i cant lie. I however want to find out how to avoid this.
(he does it at 4.48 of this vid)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECqgM9hFtw me (ALPHA DASH) vs professor pro. theres no sound so it may seem boring i need a but of advice, i currently suck at the moment but when watching and receiving advice from others im abble to make great improvement

 

[PEEF!]

Did Fly amanita ever ask Magus about the possibility of guaranteed IC techchases?

 

[Kyu Puff]

I did, he said he'd try to check everything out next time he boots action replay.

The d-smash works as long as you're in the proper position. It looks like it worked when Wobbles did it against Kels, but Kels di'd in, so all we really need to test is if you have time to space it properly when Falco/Fox di's away.

 

[Wobbles]

Alpha: Not a whole lot you can do regarding Nana since she hates DI'ing. However, you *can* smash DI the shine away and that should put you out of forward+b range. When Fox lands next to you, beat him up

If you get shined while in the air, when you land you have no stun, so you can use that to your advantage too; you'll hit the ground and be able to bring up your shield. Nana will actually cooperate in that instance, which is nice.

So if Fox looks like he wants to run in and shine, you can actually eat the shine and punish him by jumping into it, then landing and attacking if he tries to follow up. You could even smash DI in and down so you hit the ground closer to him and then maybe land a grab if he waveshines towards you. I dunno it's tough to test using one hand on two controllers >_>

 

[Kyu Puff]

Use your feet.

That sounds really useful. Maybe it's a potential way to escape shield pressure; jump out of your shield if he does early n-air or d-air, eat the shine and escape or punish. Do you think you could hit him before you slide out of range? I think jab would be fast enough, but I don't know about any other move.

 

[PEEF!]

Fly likes ^ftilt when he gets shined.

If the jumping into Fox shieldpressure stuff works I need that **** because I'm cryin right now. Fox shieldpressure ***** me.

 

[Wobbles]

Well, jumping into drills and smash DI'ing away works for Peach because it puts her out of shine range and gives her a free d-smash. ICs are not so good with that though because they're too wide to avoid the shine. ****** baby fat is good against the cold, not so much against Fox.

Dunno if jumping into shines will work, but the ICs do have a 4 frame jump so that's good. If Fox drills your shield and you buffer the jump, I'm pretty confident that you will leave the ground before the shine comes out.

I remember SuperDoodleMan telling me that Fox can always beat a perfect shieldgrab with a perfect shine. Because he can shine on frame 7, if his last drill connects the same frame he hits the ground, his invincibility + hitbox will trump the 7 frame grabs unless the spacing is screwed up. But since the jump is only 4 frames... hopefully this is a doable, implementable technique. I think that'd be pretty slick to jump into those shines and have no stun, then surprise him with an f-smash or tilt or grab when he comes in. Maybe someone will help me test in person.

 

[PEEF!]

I'm going to try this.

I do manage to get an inordinate amount of shieldgrabs against some foxes, but some I never can. Every fox has a slightly different style for nair and dair on shield, and even super techy ones can get shieldgrabbed on a normal shield I have found.

Wobbles, alot of times when I bring up my doubleshield, the spacie backs way off and like chills and tries to properly space a move/grab and does. However, there is that little period when they just back up and think a second. Is there anything in particular we can do during that time? I'm thinking about WD>utilt, but maybe you have something better in mind.

Also, if we manage to jump into that shine and they don't follow, what does that mean for us when we get to the edge? Do we still fall off? is there anything we can do to stay on since we cancelled lag?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Well, I think that if you shield sdi the drill (or even lightshield, no one has really tested this out yet), grab outranges his shine. But jumping is easier to do on reaction, and would also work against most variations of n-air shine pressure.

PEEF: I'm wondering the same thing. It would be really nice if you could run/move towards him to negate the knockback. F-tilt might hit before you slide away, but it would be amazing if we could jump into shine -> dash attack or something.

 

[Wobbles]

Well the dash-attack would effectively be *in place* I think, but if he ran into it hey, free grab

I don't think I've ever managed to outrange Fox's shine with a grab. But my shield grab timing is awful thanks to too much Brawl ruining my sense of shield stun, coupled with buffering making it extra easy, so half the time I don't even know what I'm doing lol.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

coming to GSG rob?

 

[Wobbles]

No thanks, I don't like Chinese food.

Seriously though, probably not unfortunately. $600 plane tickets now, it's way too last-minute.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Good **** German, mango and m2k an PC are going among many others its in norcal in july like the 24-25ish

zhu too!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

if grab takes 4 frames and jump takes 4 and the fastest air attack in the game like fox/falco/pichu and a few others nair comes out onn frame 3. can you press a the frist fram you leave the ground? and then do the ice climbers have a move that fast? I don't think so.

 

[choknater]

its okay wobbles u will make ur money back when u place first

just dont let mango get in ur head

stay calm vs jeff

dont let pc unrust

dont face choknater in bracket

u got this

 

[Kyu Puff]

Does anyone know how the l-cancel desynch works? I remember Fly posting his theory a while ago, but I can't find the post.

 

[L/A/W]

Does anyone know how the l-cancel desynch works? I remember Fly posting his theory a while ago, but I can't find the post.

i may be completely wrong but isn't it when nana fails to l cancel and you use the lag to desynch?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Yeah, that's the desynch. I'm trying to figure out why it works/when you would need to input the l-cancel. Although I usually input l-cancel late, I was trying it yesterday with b-air/b-air on shield and I couldn't get it to work consistently.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

My theory was that over the course of Nana's jump, the net "force" that Popo exerts on Nana is downward, so she spends less time in the air than Popo does in his short hop, so if you input the L-cancel command right before landing with Popo, Nana acts on the command right after she lands.

 

[Kyu Puff]

That seems like it could be it. The same kind of thing happens if you input an aerial (d-air/u-air/ice block) right before you land; only Popo will do the aerial and Nana lands normally.

Is it possible to shorthop auto-cancel n-air? This says that n-air auto-cancels on frame 30, and that the air time for a shorthop is 30 frames, but I can't get it to work...

 

[Alpha Dash]

thank you, any other useful advice you could give in those vids? baring in mind professor pro IS UK's best fox hr knows me inside out seeing as we're also in the same crew OOC (out of control)

 

[Magus420]

I don't know if SHAC n-air is possible or not, but when you do an aerial on the same frame you leave the ground it shortens the height of your jump slightly (making you land like 1-2 frames earlier than normal). Also, the aerial can sometimes change your body position to trigger an earlier landing than normal.

 

[AshuRawRun]

thank you, any other useful advice you could give in those vids? baring in mind professor pro IS UK's best fox hr knows me inside out seeing as we're also in the same crew OOC (out of control)

K so that pretty much explain why he wants to MM me... He was hiding the fact he knew the match up! è_é
Anyway, I guess there's no supporting between to players who mains the same char if the oppenents is a crewmate of one of the guys... That's sad!
BTW when Amanita played Doraki and Porc I was for the french because I didn't want to be sure he was better than me (even if I think he is lol)...
That's funny... I'm gonna see if we can make something with IC against Prof è_é

 

[Alpha Dash]

he knows like every match up, he's a very consistent player if you think you have a chance then go ahead, im a very basic IC player I'm just smart in CERTAIN situaitions and perhaps weaker in other areas. I'm learning though. but watch the matches:
(no sound) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpKQSw4bp8 <ugh he destroyed me in this one...
(no sound) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECqgM9hFtw <this one i did fairly alright in.

 

[Binx]

Well AD, the first thing I notice is that your recoveries are varied, but not for the right reasons, you choose different options just for the sake of being random, but there are a lot of times where you could make a better decision and not risk taking damage. Also your ledge game is predictable, you wavedash up the same distance with similar timing the same way every time. Try and mix it up with just standing and moving and rolling, or whatever, watch wobbles and chu. Also if you think you can get away with it you can hop up with a fair.

You leave the ground too often and you go too high. Try to jump less ICs ground game is really strong. Just cause you can move to a platform doesn't mean you are in a good position to, sometimes rolling past or wavedashing in place or moving and bringing up your shield can be a better option. Mix up your movement as much as you can.

Your approaches are predictable, and the matches really show it too, he knows how your going to attack (you also are too aggressive IMO) and he punishes you often for it. He CCs your dairs a lot, I think you could get away with empty shorthop grab vs him if you used it sparingly. Gonna go ahead and point it out, use less short hop dairs, and less dairs in general.

You need work on your DI. You need work on your spacing. You should grab LESS. When you grab you should do different things, your strat of just reacting to Nana is inconsistent, for one he should be hitting some of those techs, and secondly you are not getting in his head, he knows its chance, you know its chance, try variations of dthrow dair cg and mix it up with your own throws. Your timing is slightly off on your tech chases and your being shined too often when you should be punishing, try and react faster or plan for what he will do when he gets up. Or just predict the tech option he will take and act immediately.

Your evasive game when he is invincable is predictable, try shielding and wavedashing through him and only sometimes take the platform escape, dont do one every time. As a general rule the ground is safer. Go for sweetspots with double jumps and ub b's before going for the stage when recovering. If you are gonna have to go for the stage mix up your forward b timing so you can try and make him mess up, go for a platform maybe, or start high and fall, just mix it up a little your making it too easy, also there are a lot of times where you stop next to him and eat an upsmash while recovering, try and get further into the stage at least then there is a *chance* he could mess up.

Hope this helps.

 

[Finch]

I loved the first kill in the second set. I'm definitely stealing that.

 

[Binx]

Just watched one of the matches again, try mixing in jab->forward tilt every now and again, he ccs often so you shouldn't have time to get in range for a grab but I think you could nail him with the tilts and move him near some edges.

 

[Alpha Dash]

Well AD, the first thing I notice is that your recoveries are varied, but not for the right reasons, you choose different options just for the sake of being random, but there are a lot of times where you could make a better decision and not risk taking damage. Also your ledge game is predictable, you wavedash up the same distance with similar timing the same way every time. Try and mix it up with just standing and moving and rolling, or whatever, watch wobbles and chu. Also if you think you can get away with it you can hop up with a fair.

You leave the ground too often and you go too high. Try to jump less ICs ground game is really strong. Just cause you can move to a platform doesn't mean you are in a good position to, sometimes rolling past or wavedashing in place or moving and bringing up your shield can be a better option. Mix up your movement as much as you can.

Your approaches are predictable, and the matches really show it too, he knows how your going to attack (you also are too aggressive IMO) and he punishes you often for it. He CCs your dairs a lot, I think you could get away with empty shorthop grab vs him if you used it sparingly. Gonna go ahead and point it out, use less short hop dairs, and less dairs in general.

You need work on your DI. You need work on your spacing. You should grab LESS. When you grab you should do different things, your strat of just reacting to Nana is inconsistent, for one he should be hitting some of those techs, and secondly you are not getting in his head, he knows its chance, you know its chance, try variations of dthrow dair cg and mix it up with your own throws. Your timing is slightly off on your tech chases and your being shined too often when you should be punishing, try and react faster or plan for what he will do when he gets up. Or just predict the tech option he will take and act immediately.

Your evasive game when he is invincable is predictable, try shielding and wavedashing through him and only sometimes take the platform escape, dont do one every time. As a general rule the ground is safer. Go for sweetspots with double jumps and ub b's before going for the stage when recovering. If you are gonna have to go for the stage mix up your forward b timing so you can try and make him mess up, go for a platform maybe, or start high and fall, just mix it up a little your making it too easy, also there are a lot of times where you stop next to him and eat an upsmash while recovering, try and get further into the stage at least then there is a *chance* he could mess up.

Hope this helps.

thanks this very useful. its not that i dont know how to use the characters its only professor pro who puts me under so much pressure i need help trying to figure out his routeen. thanks for the advice i'll take this on board next time i post a video link it wont be a let down i assure u.

I loved the first kill in the second set. I'm definitely stealing that.

Prof is really good that the only thing that gets him, it wasnt a luck thing coz ive done it many times coz its not easy to react to

Just watched one of the matches again, try mixing in jab->forward tilt every now and again, he ccs often so you shouldn't have time to get in range for a grab but I think you could nail him with the tilts and move him near some edges.

yeah i notice that when i jab it kinda slows an offensive fox down. i appreciate the advice thanks

 

[Wobbles]

You want vids? I got vids.

http://www.youtube.com/user/flippityfloppity

10 matches of me vs. Darkrain. You can tell that three of my obvious weakness ATM are:

1) I panic and throw out moves a lot. WD d-smash. It missed? Smash again! Only time in this whole batch that I can remember doing that intentionally as bait is the very end of the second set, final match when I use auto-canceled b-air to get him to run into a second b-air. I need to work on this, I panic a bunch
2) I get aggressive off my de-syncs and then he effs Nana up hard because I leave her behind. I'm too willing to play without her, which works to my advantage when I *am* alone because I can pull off shenanigans solo that people don't expect. However, I would probably be more solid all around if I was a little more cautious with her alive, because then I'd probably get more delicious grab combos.
3) I don't do enough blind grabs. I go for spaced attacks which are good and all, but they hit shields a LOT and if I just grabbed, well, GG. With enough grab pressure I could bait jumps out of shield and control the opponent's pace a lot more. But I don't.

Hope you enjoy anyhow, watching the set all I can see are my mistakes but I do a few good things here and there

Edit: Almost done, I lied, I don't know how the hell I won.

 

[Binx]

Wow wobbles, your my favorite player ever now. I used to like Chu better but you've improved by miles. I think you have a decent chance to beat any other player now. Can't wait to see you win some national tourneys man, your good enough now.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Good stuff on Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise. You had really tight control over the left/right platforms. Hax took me to brinstar in a mm last weekend and I got wrecked (I banned dreamland because it's really hard to beat his camping there).

You can d-throw chainthrow Falcon for a really long time (possibly to death). Maybe you know that already, but you landed a lot of grabs that I felt like were wasted because you went for b-throw -> edgeguard or techchase instead. Not that you're not really good at techchasing, it's just that d-throw cg takes the same kind of reaction but with only two options to cover.

On the first Rainbow Cruise match, it looks like you went for a d-throw reverse d-air on the right side of the boat, next to the wall. Usually walls count as ledges, and you can handoff as long as you aren't too close (I'm not sure if it's true of that wall specifically because of the slope, but it's worth testing).

What do you mean by blind grabs?

 

[PEEF!]

Yes, next to that wall you can hand off once or twice.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love those death handoffs. So ****.

 

[PEEF!]

I did a 11%-death handoff in tournament vs iamthamicrowave. It was his last stock I think. Anyway, it would not have lead to death because it was started a little close, but it ended with nana headbutting 4 times, it might have even been 5, and me landing the regrab>headbutt>tilt>headbutt>charge fsmash>dthrow ****.

It was pretty sweet.

 

[Wobbles]

Blind grab: no setup, like a jab, up-tilt, dash-attack to combo into it... just WD'ing or dashing in with the grab as my approach option.

I... can't seem to do the d-throw chaingrab? I thought if he just DI'ed away then he hits the ground first. If somebody could give me a video demonstrating then that'd be really legit. I always always want a more efficient option. I feel like the tech-chases are sexier but sexiness is a byproduct of my playstyle, not an objective ;P

Yeah you can do the handoff there. I forgot lol. Like I said, I panic and blank out a LOT during my matches. When my head is more clear I make a lot of devastating and effective decisions... when I'm flustered, pressured, etc., usually I pick dumb stuff and later just think "what the hell is the matter with me?" It IS rather tough to get the edge CGs on moving levels, honestly, because the ship kinda floats around and moves character hitboxes in weird ways, but I wasn't thinking that at the time. Also, the ship is sloped so that it's VERY SLIGHTLY up going to the right, and VERY SLIGHTLY down going to the left. Meaning you can't reverse d-throw d-air if you're facing left because Nana will spaz out, and if you WD to the right she'll tend to jump instead of wavedash.

Bro tip, you can handoff EVERYWHERE on Rainbow Cruise. Lots of spots on that map have little invisible edges, and that doesn't even count stuff like the boat wall, the countless platforms, . There's a reason that my favorite maps are, in this order, FoD, Yoshi's, Rainbow Cruise. You get endless poking opportunities on Cruise, lots of chances for charged smashes near the blast zones, handoffs, and Nana's AI gets so trippy with all the stuff to jump to that even experienced Nana rapists will flub when they try to kill her. Darkrain beat me there first set (in Winner's Finals game 5, which is why I was in loser's) but as you could see I actually handle myself there pretty well. In fact, he's the only person who has beaten me there in quite some time.

You can also do fun death glitches on the falling blocks! Grab somebody while THEY are on one and you aren't, then just infinite them. When the block falls off the bottom of the screen, they die. Hooray!

 

[PEEF!]

WHAT is this glitch thing?

That is amazing hahahaha. Does it work with the new infinites?

 

[Kyu Puff]

It works with anything lol. For some reason the game thinks they're still on the block, so if they break out they teleport down to it.

I wish I had videos of the d-throw chaingrab, but I haven't gotten any vids recorded recently (more motivation to get far in bracket I guess). I did a sopo 0-death on Hax in friendlies with it: b-air -> dash attack -> d-throw cg -> d-smash. You can regrab di away if you dash immediately after the d-throw.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Handoffs on the flying carpets make me happy.

 

[Wobbles]

I guess I'm just not mentally prepared to do it, so I've never been fast enough before. Maybe Darkrain will let me test it on him Good to know!

But yeah, for the block trick I like to just d-tilt them (since you can't fall through the blocks and it keeps Nana from walking off the edge).

I'm glad they make you happy Fly. They make me happy too.

 

[PEEF!]

Dthrow chaingrab on Falcon is 100% prediction. You can't react to DI away.