Social General Ice Climber Chat

[choknater]

spacies matchup

 

[Kyu Puff]

Are there situations where you guys think you can actually set up a good bair desych on someone and have it be useful?

Is it good shield pressure? what sets ups lead to it?if you hit with a bair what are your followups? can they spot dodge or roll or jump out of it safely at any points?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280913

there's a frame chart in there. the best way to set it up would be late b-air -> l-cancel desynch -> popo d-smash -> nana b-air, but it really is impractical (and almost impossible to do).

perfect desynched b-airs would be good compared to other characters' shield pressure, but after the first b-air you're better off grabbing. so if you happen to late b-air someone's shield, and you're feeling super technical, you could popo d-smash -> nana b-air -> grab, or you could just turnaround grab (off the top of my head, i don't know if there's much of an advantage to the first option)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I used to bair wall when people got momentum, lots of players would just run into one of the bairs or one of the desyncs out of the bairs to try and keep their momentum going, and I'd get a free punish.

I only attempted them when I was on-point though, not worth it other wise.

 

[Binx]

If anyone has some cool ICs vids go link them in the video thread right now please ^_^

 

[Turazrok]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280913

there's a frame chart in there. the best way to set it up would be late b-air -> l-cancel desynch -> popo d-smash -> nana b-air, but it really is impractical (and almost impossible to do).

perfect desynched b-airs would be good compared to other characters' shield pressure, but after the first b-air you're better off grabbing. so if you happen to late b-air someone's shield, and you're feeling super technical, you could popo d-smash -> nana b-air -> grab, or you could just turnaround grab (off the top of my head, i don't know if there's much of an advantage to the first option)

l-cancels can desync?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You can time the landing so one climber l-cancels while the other doesn't.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I noticed that if I do the fastest autocancelled bair and I dont fast fall or L cancel, Just popo will short hope if I do 2 in a row. Im going to try out that bair?dsmash shield destruction....sounds neato....sounds like the future.

=p

 

[Binx]

Could you tipper a late bair into any kind of safe pressure? Like could I do a late bair barely nick the shield and apply any meaningful safe pressure?

I'm imagining a late bair into a ftilt into a nana pult or nana upsmash, maybe nana dash attack. Oooh a Nana grab into a popo punish maybe would be good too, even if they avoid her grab they have to worry about you doing auto cancel uair or another bair or even you grabbing them if they hit nana.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Late Bair > Dsmash > Grab would presumably be your best bet

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

best option is to be patient and react to your opponent after a hit on shield, they only have so many options out of shield. stay in between their roll length and their maximum range if possible.
rinse and repeat.

 

[choknater]

to be honest, most characters playing the ic's matchup properly will rarely shield in a position where we can pressure them. the only time that i imagine that it would happen a lot would be if they are trying to get up from the ledge. from there yes i'll spam bairs but i don't think i will use it for shield pressure as much as trying to bait them to do some type of janky escape.

the way that characters beat ic's (those who CAN beat ic's) is by staying so close to us but not getting grabbed or dsmashed. this is difficult to do but it's very possible if the opponent has a strong offense. and that's the key: they need to be on the offense, and not shielding. this is why shield pressure stuff with ic's has never been very important to me. i just grab people when they shield, or do a bair and then regain position.

if marth, fox, and ganon never took initiative to put on offense, we'd win the matchups. however they keep the matchups close if they pressure us successfuly.

peach, however, can win the matchup any way she wants.

 

[Binx]

Peach is such a weird character to define the playstyle of. She can be really safe when she approaches because of the way he float mechanic works against ICs, I feel like you have to out predict her several times for every time she predicts you because he punishes can be so hard and her shield pressure is so good.

That being said she does have several punishable spacings of various moves. If she is directly above you but not low enough to hit you, you get as many uair opportunities as you could ever ask for, if she use any smash or dtilt you can punish with grabs in certain spacings, if you predict her jump float you can do rising bairs to catch her jumping.

She has to recover high every time because its easy enough to zone her recovery with desynched ice blocks. Shes really easy to handoff but really difficult to grab, so this is kind of odd as well.

I feel like peach can provoke us to roll a lot, and take space from us pretty well, and to take it away you have to take risks like doing a synched squall or a running upsmash to get her on the ground where we can get towards the center of the stage or punish her initial jump if she does it too close.

 

[john!]

just jump and hit her guys it's not hard geez

 

[Binx]

Anyone have any good spam vs samus or do you just play really patient and try not to get hit while camping her with ice blocks?

 

[choknater]

ice blocks are only good for disrupting samus' missile rhythm and making her shield when she is not in the air

ice blocks are really effective vs samus but u cant do it blindly when she can easily shoot missiles at you

ic's slightly win the close range game vs samus bc she isn't really hard to grab. but you have to very carefully inch toward her and strike when you are in wavedash range. wave dash shield is very good. shielding is very good vs samus in general

however i think the matchup is pretty even, just gotta be so careful.

john, we can't cuz of fair

 

[shmeargle]

Well desynched ice blocks are pretty good. Samus won't really hit you from that if you can consistently do it. I'm not sure about this but you can Ftilt your way across lol. I know this works as marth b/c of the disjointed hit boxes. Maybe if you time it right nairs can block the missles.

Her CC'd dtilts are annoying for me though so is it just wise not to jab as well?

 

[choknater]

yeah dont jab samus, her cc is too good

her cc dsmash is even better if she hits us with it, nana is dead if that happens near the edge

 

[shmeargle]

I haven't had much experience playing against peach, but what's the MU percentage for this?

 

[choknater]

ic's get WHOOPED

if u want numbers it's generally considered 30:70

 

[Binx]

I think people are too good for percentages now, its just one character is allowed to make more mistakes, i think a lot of the numbers used to be just from people not being technical enough to do the right punish all the time, we are way past that IMO.

 

[choknater]

the numbers are just conceptual

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

coming to campbell tourney chok?

 

[choknater]

no, going to sacramento for da homies

 

[Teczer0]

I have no idea how to fight Fox omg :<

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I have no idea how to fight Fox omg :<

Its really important to always be conscious about not getting shine gimped really quickly. You have to make him run into your moves and he has to make a mistake for you to get a grab.

If you get a grab you have to punish super hard.
You have to edgeguard really hard/well.



I just got ****ed up by SS in my pool. I almost made it out of pools I got 4th seed. I lost to the 3rd seed 1-2 so If I won one more game I would have made it into the bracket. Oh well. Next time.

 

[Teczer0]

Making him run into my moves is so hard haha.

I think I'm just being too aggressive probably. God, I just wanna play more melee climbers.

I still try to do the handoff CG as practice and **** its hard. The timing on fox seems to be so fast too :<

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The timing is fast, but it's not that bad once you commit to memory. Another random thing that might help on lightweights is to have Nana shield-grab or JC grab. I used to accidentally jab instead of grab with Nana for reasons related to her crouching when Popo dthrows, but doing a shield-grab or JC grab solves that issue.

 

[Teczer0]

I actually just always whiff the grab.

I happen to just JC grab out of habit because I used to CC into JC grab as sheik/marth.

Thanks for the tip though =3

 

[choknater]

a lot of recorded videos from a local sacramento tourny that i won this weekend

mainly vs meep and DP

they are not really top tier players, but they did take some matches on me so once the videos go up i'll post em up here so i/we can brainstorm!!

 

[choknater]

alright guys here are some videos...

i noticed i do have some bad habits for when i go on the offense, so i'm looking to clean those up.

mostly marth/falco matchups here

vs fuhnky fresh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfmoAk9jrEo&list=UU9nt5BpIU4orByZYcDTyGGg&index=4&feature=plpp_video

vs meep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SzVJ2X1U4&list=UU9nt5BpIU4orByZYcDTyGGg&index=3&feature=plpp_video

WF: vs dp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9llF9hnd4E&list=UU9nt5BpIU4orByZYcDTyGGg&index=2&feature=plpp_video (long set)

GF: vs meep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVmvg3Oqsk&list=UU9nt5BpIU4orByZYcDTyGGg&index=1&feature=plpp_video

any comments and constructive criticisms?

 

[Smasher89]

VS funhky fresH
1.41 I think it´s possible to uthrow> jump onto platform>usmash in that situation (or if they DI right uthrow uair/bair?)
Also, liked the ending at match 2^^
VS Meep

3.17 I think you could have DId the fsmash slightly better, the longer ICs survives against marth the more frustrating they are to face. Might watch the other 2 later

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

vs meep
grand finals
6:26 dair as a bad choice

i think you should use wobbling or become a god at the handoff instead of missing an opportunity
with dthrow upsmash or dthrow nana full hop forward DI or the like. i learned alot of little mixups in these videos
and i thank you for representing ICs very well

 

[Nintendude]

Here's a video of me vs. HugS from Apex weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnZAR5ZXFQ8

I definitely could have beaten him but made some crucial errors, including a dropped handoff on his last stock in game 1 and all sorts of poor decisions in game 2. I also have to get better at protecting Nana in this matchup. I never really get to play vs. good Samus players though (this was the first time in at least 2 years I think).

There was a recorded MM of me beating Shiz 2-1 in a MM but the footage got corrupted
I also beat Westballz in two sets but neither were recorded. Do you play against him, Fly?

 

[choknater]

nintendude youre mad good

all i've done is almost beat scar -_-

 

[Wobbles]

Nintendude: when you're getting missiles launched at you, just light shield to make sure there's no shield stabbing or explosions radially hitting Nana. Then, instead of WD'ing forward (since you'll just have to shield another missile or tilt, usually) just jump and maintain your sync. You tried doing quick WD out of shield and the stun de-sync'ed you and Nana, and she got hit by a random stuff.

Against d-smash, WD OoS into grab is godlike. Samus players with either stop d-smashing so damn much or they will lose.

As for your SoPo, grab more. D-throw can lead into u-airs, or you can just u-throw for a bunch of percent and then chase with your u-airs from under platforms. F-throw her off the stage for the most percent; that is, unless the Samus isn't good, and just DI's in for a free u-air or b-air.

You have a similar problem that I do, which is that from a neutral position most of your options tend to be approaches. You WD in, jump while DI'ing towards them, and seem to be going constantly for the next guessing game or opening. Unfortunately ICs can get slapped out of their WD by almost anybody so in the future, I recommend using little wavedashes to bait whiffs, wavedashes in place just to get your shield dropped, or simply doing small retreats to resetting the position. The vast majority of players get antsy when they whiff too many attacks (even if they don't get punished). Use your wavedashes to choke off space rather than invade it and you'll get hit by less random crap, I think.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I play against Wes in tourney every now and then. He's a strong player, but he makes too many random tech errors against ICs.

 

[choknater]

hey fly or wobbles could either of you check out my tournament vids and see where i might need refining? i know u guys are good at pinpointing mistakes

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm going to sleep soon, but I'll look over them tomorrow morning.

 

[choknater]

ah thanks bro that'd be very helpful

Spoiler

scar

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Hey Jeremy can I have an internet Hi Five?