Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Fly_Amanita]

It sounds like you mainly have a hard time dealing with laser camping. Try approaching with ice blocks. More specifically, dash forward -> full jump ice block can apply some pressure and give you an opportunity to get closer if you're pretty far away. Short hop ice block into a laser is also okay if you're kind of close since it lets you desynch the ICs and harass him with desynched ice blocks.

I personally like to get close to Falco and bait him into approaching me, partially since landing a solid hit through lasers can be tricky, and partially because lasers on their own aren't very threatening, so I don't have much to lose if the Falco is hesitant to approach. In the case that he really does just want to sit there and laser, try getting kind of close, shielding a laser, and approaching with a long wavedash OoS -> ftilt; that'll generally catch Falco out of hit next short hop before the laser comes out.

 

[choknater]

in all my matchups vs falco i just keep 3 things in mind

- don't be directly horizontal from him (this is probably where you are if you gotta guess a lot and stuff. nothing's truly "safe" so i just like gambling a lot with wd forward attacks )
- just hit him
- keep momentum

unfortunately i am not as patient as fly lol

hey fly, i'm watching your sets at e4s

 

[shmeargle]

Where can I find the links to e4s? Oh and with falco whenever I get close I always end up getting shined up and then lose nana from there. But what kind of baiting would you use for falco? I'm sorry for asking booby questions lol.

 

[choknater]

www.youtube.com/stabbedbyahippie

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh and with falco whenever I get close I always end up getting shined up and then lose nana from there. But what kind of baiting would you use for falco? I'm sorry for asking booby questions lol.

You don't generally want to be right on top of Falco unless you're in the process of hitting him with something. When I talk about getting close to him, I generally mean something around the distance of a Marth tipper away from him. This is a range at which Falcos understandably will get a little reluctant to continue to just laser, and if you can guess what they're going to do here, you can often land a hit. Depending on the precise circumstances, just standing there and fsmashing can be okay if you think he's going to run or jump in; dash attack is also good. More specifically, the strength of fsmash here is that it has a big hitbox, knocks Falco away (which is bad for him if he's near the edge or at a high percentage), and it doesn't lose to CC. You do need to worry about dash attack being CC'd, and it's a little harder to hit with than fsmash, but the overall reward for landing it is generally greater. If you think Falco is going to retreat, just do a long wavedash and chase after him with jab/ftilt/maybe dsmash/fsmash. If you think he's going to stubbornly remain in place, you can shoot ice blocks at him, approach him, or jump forward and blizzard.

The overall idea is get close enough to him to force a response and try to respond accordingly.


Chok, I don't see why you wouldn't want to be directly horizontal from Falco. If you're both not on the ground, then sure, but if you are indeed on the ground, then this position is fine; ICs are faster than Falco on the ground and are generally quite flexible and good at dealing with whatever he can dish out.

 

[mers]

Fly:

I just watched your sets vs. Lovage at E4S. What do you think changed between the set in WS and the one in LF? I'd love to hear your analysis of the matches.

Thanks!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'll need to watch the videos in order to make any decently substantial remarks, but I posted my initial impressions around the middle of this post.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Fly I liked how you ended up using Side B vs Johnny.

 

[choknater]

my impression of the differences between WS and LF...

in WS, lovage ran into a lot of defensive stuff that fly was using. like fly's cool new usage of defensive fsmash

however in LF, lovage was careful in not falling for these things, and fishing for moments to establish offense (especially killing nana.) on the other hand fly you seemed like you were approaching a lot more than usual. idk if this is a bad thing or not, but lovage was positioning himself really well and it seemed like he was the one reacting to [/i] your moves

also about being horizontal vs falco: well yeah for ic's it's not tooooo bad but i think generally other characters are better off full jumping over lasers. i try to keep this in mind that even though lasers on their own don't do much themselves, falco can slowly work himself into better positions with it, to a point where he can get close enough to frame trap us or be far enough so that we can't catch him with random wd's or dash attacks

i think challenging lasers is more of a gamble. not saying it's bad though. i tend to take those gambles very often 8)

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Also, I do plan on getting an ICs guide up within the next couple weeks (I'll aim for this week, which I should easily be able to achieve provided I don't procrastinate). It's largely going to be an introductory thing that won't be of much use to the regulars here, but will hopefully be helpful for people looking to pick up the character.

I will be eagerly awaiting this, along with my friend. Im surprised that some of the guides on here aren't updated more often. The puff boards just started a guide that is significantly different than the one mango made 4-5 years ago, and its so much better imo. Nothing on the IC vs puff mu yet tho =]

 

[choknater]

ic vs puff is mad easy

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Please post a list or two of why
i respect your opinion=D

 

[choknater]

this has sparked heavy debate for me before lol but

in my opinion, ic's nana blizzard walls puff very well, and popo can do anything to all of her responses. like for example if she gets hit by the blizzard, popo can wd forward and respond. if she tries to go over, popo can uair from below, or wd under and run away. if puff runs away, ic's can gain stage control, or continue walling with desynchs and inching that wall toward puff.

puff's strength is gaining a lead + running away and flying around fishing for bairs, or getting to a close distance where ic's can't initiate desynchs. she is also pretty good at edge guarding ic's. for ic's it's just a matter of preventing all these situations which is not very hard

also one of the few characters that can punish blocked sh bair out of shield, so that's a very good prevention tool. forcing puff to full jump is very strong because it makes her offense much less tight

 

[Smasher89]

And that ICs CC is too strong for puff to handle, one bair ca 9%, one cc dsmash 20%+, nice trade IMO(that can kill).

 

[Roller]

Wait. Are we able to punish the shorthopped bair on sheild with wd->grab??? or what?

Also.

Just made power rankings for the first time with my Brawl ICs. n_n

Still have a lot of work to do on my melee ones.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Congratulations!

 

[choknater]

Wait. Are we able to punish the shorthopped bair on sheild with wd->grab??? or what?

wd dsmash, wd fsmash, wd jab. wd grab seems like it'd work but i'd rather just hit her, it doesn't seem fast enough.

 

[Divinokage]

Hey guys, I will probably be teaming with Chudat for Apex. So.. I hope I can bring in something new and inspire the ICs in someway just like I did with Axe. Let's see... =)

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Can i just say ganondwarf is a CwAZY MEAT MOUNTAIN!
kage you have to be very careful about team damage
you probably already know!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'd recommend having Chu below you with you camping platforms and the general area around him, as well as protecting Chu while he does his combos/punishing partners for breaking through his combos.

I'm sure you've got it under control, though.

 

[choknater]

ic ganon team has appeared in cali a few times, with pretty decent success.

grim is right. ic's controlling the lower part of the stage is great for their mobility in teams, but ic's should very cautious with their approaches. the team may have trouble with fox. but np np. ganon coming from above is pretty strong!

 

[Divinokage]

ic ganon team has appeared in cali a few times, with pretty decent success.

grim is right. ic's controlling the lower part of the stage is great for their mobility in teams, but ic's should very cautious with their approaches. the team may have trouble with fox. but np np. ganon coming from above is pretty strong!

Ya but you've never seen Kage with ICs... Neither have I actually. I'm doing this on the fly just like with a Pika... which is why it should be fun lol.

 

[choknater]

haha im just saying. those random teams had never teamed together before and seemed to naturally work well. could be because they both punish so hard and ganon is amplified in teams. you just won rom so you got this

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I used to do ICs+Ganon with Julian Kao sometimes and we generally did really well. It mostly just consisted of me sitting behind Ganon and rushing in whenever he got hit.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Man autocancelled short hop up air is tough.

I want to get that down so I can do it out of shield on reaction wtihout accidentally full hopping

 

[choknater]

just c stick up immediately

u got this

i don't do it out of shield though... maybe i should practice that next time i get my hands on the game, seems pretty good

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

doing it out of anyting useful is hard for me. doing it out of a wave dash or out of wave land or out of shield.

Ill keep practicing . I dont see anyone use it ever, except for Fly at one point in time in like 2 vids in a row months ago.

 

[choknater]

it's pretty good

the only reason you don't see it much is cuz ic's are rarely directly beneath a char, unless they are platform camping top platforms

 

[Fly_Amanita]

It also rarely directly leads to anything, which isn't bad per se, but I'd often rather do something more substantial. I still should use it more, though.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

It also rarely directly leads to anything, which isn't bad per se, but I'd often rather do something more substantial. I still should use it more, though.

Grab them when they land. Or hit them when they land.

Or look at them when they land, and then grab or hit them.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Uair doesn't have enough hitstun for that to work.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

It lifts them off the ground, and when autocanceled you are in a neutral state while they are in the air,


I mean if we can up air into up air, I dont think its that unbelievable that we could follow up a autocanceled upair.


I dont know tho, just talking, I need to get it down more consistently to try it out\

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The basic problem is that late uair doesn't have much hitstun, so the opponent will often be able to jump before you can do much out of that, whereas if you hit with early uair, you need to land again before you can do something, which takes a while.

 

[Binx]

I think I might improve a lot soon, I feel like I am about to break through this little wall in a big way once I figure out a few things.

I've been watching my own videos lately and I've been noticing how weak my punishes have been but I see a lot of really easy things that I can improve on that will give me a huge boost.

I'm also discovering some new openings I can get grabs in that I haven't been taking advantage of, once I get those 2 things down I think I'll be like 100 times as good.

Also fly I was really digging your backthrow ftilt vs falcon at low percents, I'm gonna lift that =D

edit #17 anyone know where wobbles disappeared to lol

 

[Vts]

Wobbles moved in with Taj and has a gf/job so he's busy

I need to break in my controller soon, apex in like 3 weeks and i'm not ready

 

[Kyu Puff]

Man autocancelled short hop up air is tough.

I want to get that down so I can do it out of shield on reaction wtihout accidentally full hopping

try tilting the control stick up as you jump (so your right hand just has to slide to a)

that's the way i do it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

AC Aerials are easy if you use the control stick to jump :3

 

[Kyu Puff]

even if you don't, you can just lightly tilt the control stick as you jump, the same way you would for an up-tilt

 

[Binx]

Merry Christmas Climbers it's our season!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Only in one hemisphere... lol