I just don't do MMs at all really. I can't remember the last one I did.
I would like to practice the matchup with you though!
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
I would like to practice the matchup with you though!
the_irish_dude
SCG TO
Ha. Vts ill teach you handoffs and you teach me matchups. Lol
VTS and anyone else wanting to learn how to hand-off, I've already done all the work in this thread! http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269173Ha. Vts ill teach you handoffs and you teach me matchups. Lol
Vts
Smash Champion
alright sounds good really only match up i feel i might not be good for advice on is peach, ganon, and maybe zeldaHa. Vts ill teach you handoffs and you teach me matchups. Lol
those are my worst match ups but i seem to just fail vs them lol
i know what to do just fail at doing it
really we are starting up bi-weeklies soon in arkansas so we will record a lot of matches and see where i can improve and maybe help the community with advice i learn.
also congrats wobbles on finally being first in AZ after like 4 years of them saying your bad lol
@peef- i'll take a look at the guide i got few days before first bi-weekly and i want to win.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I can give people tips on the Peach MU, my old training partner mained Peach.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
what do you do in the matchup
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Not as simple as that, I'm afraid.
If you have a video of you vs. a Peach, I can critique it...?
If you have a video of you vs. a Peach, I can critique it...?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i actually haven't played the matchup in a very long time, besides losing to shroomed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jkK7naCMJs
more than a year old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jkK7naCMJs
more than a year old
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Looks like your main issue is just inexperience, you are approaching the match-up correctly in some ways, but incorrectly in others.
My main advice would be to be more cautious overall and don't try and punish Peach every time she makes a slight mistake unless you can get a grab or something, otherwise it isn't worth it. You jumped into so much of MacD's **** when you could've just retreated.
Other than that, your play looks solid, not much to say, really.
My main advice would be to be more cautious overall and don't try and punish Peach every time she makes a slight mistake unless you can get a grab or something, otherwise it isn't worth it. You jumped into so much of MacD's **** when you could've just retreated.
Other than that, your play looks solid, not much to say, really.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
GSG #1 Choknater vs M2k was absolutely beast. Chok lost by I was really impressed. (M2k counterpicked Peach starting game 1)
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yes, but losing to shroomed's peach and m2k's peach is just kinda embarrassing. they only picked her specifically for me, so i need to be able to beat players who don't even use her. i don't mind having that kind of close match and losing to macd again, but at least for people who don't even main peach i don't want to lose.
at CGC, i had prepared for doc vs ic's.... not ylink vs peach -_-
at CGC, i had prepared for doc vs ic's.... not ylink vs peach -_-
the_irish_dude
SCG TO
That right there is why i hate the peach matchup. It's such a struggle to ve successful even against an avg peach. Not as much strategy on their part compared to ours
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yes, it's true, but because the average peach player who doesn't main her is so reductive in the ic's approach, i feel it shouldn't be difficult to defeat them. it's just that her tools generally overpower ic's unless the ic's put much more thought into the technology
i think the matchup is entirely possible after some more reflection on peach's tools, and more experience with the flow of the game in general. i just want to try it out some more, since i agree with grim tuesday's statement that i am just inexperienced with the matchup. it's been such a self-defeating mindset for me to always cop out and pick different characters against her. i always did that just because it felt easier, but i don't think that way anymore.
i think the matchup is entirely possible after some more reflection on peach's tools, and more experience with the flow of the game in general. i just want to try it out some more, since i agree with grim tuesday's statement that i am just inexperienced with the matchup. it's been such a self-defeating mindset for me to always cop out and pick different characters against her. i always did that just because it felt easier, but i don't think that way anymore.
john!
Smash Hero
you can't approach the peach matchup in the usual manner. she will stuff everything that you try to do back in your face. most of her attacks and approaches don't "whiff" like most characters do, because she has no lag, so you can't punish them in the typical fashion. weird as it sounds, you have to play the matchup like a luigi player: use the ground for mobility, but attack primarily with your aerials. being near peach for an extended amount of time is a bad idea, so try to weave in and out. as a peach player, the only ic's that scare me are the ones who aren't afraid to hit me out of my float, or approach with nana blizzard -> popo aerial, or spam ice blocks to force me to float and then get under peach and violate her, or something.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
IMO peach's strongest tool is not the dsmash, but turnip to aerial
because turnip forces ic's to catch, evade, or shield
it disrupts their spacing and offense. in the neutral game, this pressures ic's to try to stop her from pulling too many turnips, or just try to deal with all of them. this is why the uphill battle is so difficult. most peaches don't do this properly, but when i play peach against other ic players i never lose because i know what to do haha.
because turnip forces ic's to catch, evade, or shield
it disrupts their spacing and offense. in the neutral game, this pressures ic's to try to stop her from pulling too many turnips, or just try to deal with all of them. this is why the uphill battle is so difficult. most peaches don't do this properly, but when i play peach against other ic players i never lose because i know what to do haha.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Chok is correct. Dsmash only ***** people who aren't experienced in the match-up and keep wave-dashing into it while trying to pressure Peach, other than that, its only as good as in other match-ups, really.
I think you forget one thing, that peach has to commit to throwing before anything else, giving time to react, and catch+throw back the turnip, like in the beginning of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8SFRwL707k
I think I´ve seen Fly/Wobbles starting to use it a bit too and it does kinda set up for either getting some space by quickly throwing it back, or even grabs depending on peach DI on the turnip.
The hardest thing for me against peach is when they don´t try to play like AR, doing alot of random dsmashes and not (for me) making sence XD
I´ve kinda started going for puff against peach though, not sure if it solves the problem but timing peach out should be guarantied wins if patient enough (lol DL is sooo balanced, not).
I think I´ve seen Fly/Wobbles starting to use it a bit too and it does kinda set up for either getting some space by quickly throwing it back, or even grabs depending on peach DI on the turnip.
The hardest thing for me against peach is when they don´t try to play like AR, doing alot of random dsmashes and not (for me) making sence XD
I´ve kinda started going for puff against peach though, not sure if it solves the problem but timing peach out should be guarantied wins if patient enough (lol DL is sooo balanced, not).
Binx
Smash Master
damn neat tricks lol =D
Sadly enough when I do well in this match up I just run away the whole time until peach ****s up and then I hit her with a bair or a grab or something and just follow up as best as I can. I try not to get greedy about anything and just play really careful, makes for a long boring match but if the stage is big enough it's been working really well for me.
Sadly enough when I do well in this match up I just run away the whole time until peach ****s up and then I hit her with a bair or a grab or something and just follow up as best as I can. I try not to get greedy about anything and just play really careful, makes for a long boring match but if the stage is big enough it's been working really well for me.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
the thing about that anti peach vid though
i mean, she won't ALWAYS be doing an aerial after the thrown turnip
she can just throw the turnip and stay there, and keep throwing them until she sees the ic's trying to do something evasive
however i do see how those defensive tactics will actually force peach to think a little bit more about her approaches. there are very tight moments where ic's actually can fight her (during those too-close turnip throws, misplaced dsmashes, whiffed aerials) so it's a matter of taking advantage of those moments
i mean, she won't ALWAYS be doing an aerial after the thrown turnip
she can just throw the turnip and stay there, and keep throwing them until she sees the ic's trying to do something evasive
however i do see how those defensive tactics will actually force peach to think a little bit more about her approaches. there are very tight moments where ic's actually can fight her (during those too-close turnip throws, misplaced dsmashes, whiffed aerials) so it's a matter of taking advantage of those moments
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
Why is this not sticky'd?? Wow amazing work
ALso thanks for the tips on peach guys, this should really help cause my usual training partner mains her
choknater
Smash Obsessed
you're welcome, and good luck
Roller
Smash Legend
One of the guys I am playing with now on a daily basis mains peach. I'm definitely getting better at it.
I've found that using squall hammer offensively seems to work really well as a mixup which catches your opponent off guard if you only use it sporadically. Other than that, I try to either get in under her and jc usmash or uair.
The desynch blizzard to aerial plan has also been doing pretty well. sucks that dsmash is nearly useless in this matchup though, unless you catch her on the ground for whatever reason.
I've found that using squall hammer offensively seems to work really well as a mixup which catches your opponent off guard if you only use it sporadically. Other than that, I try to either get in under her and jc usmash or uair.
The desynch blizzard to aerial plan has also been doing pretty well. sucks that dsmash is nearly useless in this matchup though, unless you catch her on the ground for whatever reason.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hmmmm!
pretty good ideas
pretty good ideas
To not forget IC can throw 2 turnips at the "same" time, so will have turnip priority if having catched just one.
Something I think can be a key tool to beat her is her slowness, and that she kinda "must" float to be used effectively. Maybe something with WD away and ?
Something I think can be a key tool to beat her is her slowness, and that she kinda "must" float to be used effectively. Maybe something with WD away and ?
Yeah, that's pretty much the same way is I do it. Oh well, I guess that's how it is to be new around here, hah. It's funny how you can make Nana do a smash while Popo is running because he isn't affected by the c-stick in the running animation. You can run from edge to edge on FD with Nana doing stuff behind you. It looks pretty funny.
You probably know about this too, but whatever:
Rather than rolling to the egde with both Climbers to do the Up-b OoS Nana-takes-the-edge-thing, you can roll to the edge --> desync jump --> up-a --> DI off the stage
This will make Nana do a up-air off the stage and grab the edge simultaneously with Popo doing a u-tilt. Nana will grab the egde just as fast in the Up-b OoS way and Popo will be able to move sooner (the u-tilt animation is shorter the standing up-b animation). Furthermore, both Climbers do an attack (u-air and u-tilt) in place of doing nothing. Perhabs you could catch something like Fox's or Falco's illusion recovery with one you moves; and in case they go for the egde, Nana will prevent them from doing so. All this in one move.
The only thing, as I see it, that might make the old way better is that it is easier to time the OoS desyn. In either way, I'm going to try this out against non-cpu opponents in a near future.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
haha wow. that's so interesting. new tech man.
if i see it in a match i'll implement it hahahah
i wish i had the game to practice new stuff though
if i see it in a match i'll implement it hahahah
i wish i had the game to practice new stuff though
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
@PEEF Im just curious.... since your handoff timing thread is over a year old..... have you been implementing using an ipod in tournament as of late? Has it been successful? Is it legal?
You could use an ipod if you wanted, but I have it hardwired into my head now. It is legal yes haha
It actually sounds like you are watching my stream, finding what I do differently than other IC players, then posting about it, hahaha
I know you arent, but that is another thing that I do that nobody else does. I use Usmash more than utilt though.
It actually sounds like you are watching my stream, finding what I do differently than other IC players, then posting about it, hahaha
I know you arent, but that is another thing that I do that nobody else does. I use Usmash more than utilt though.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
Maybe he meant usmash rather than utilt (not uair) for popo....
I wanna learn this..
And PEEF did you practice with an ipod first or did you just pick it up from the metronome at home?
I wanna learn this..
And PEEF did you practice with an ipod first or did you just pick it up from the metronome at home?
Binx
Smash Master
There are online metronomes, you could use a laptop or your desktop if its close enough to your gaming tv.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
what is the metronome number for wobbling anyway
Binx
Smash Master
200
10 chars
10 chars
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
So there definitely is an optimum bpm for wobbling? And by optimum, I mean the timing is directly in the middle of the constraints where you begin to sync up again.....
Is f-tilt superior to d-tilt? Cause I am so used to doing d-tilt... but i know f-tilt is more damage
Is f-tilt superior to d-tilt? Cause I am so used to doing d-tilt... but i know f-tilt is more damage
Binx
Smash Master
ftilt does more damage so you get to kill percent faster, both are inescapable so doesnt matter which you use, although getting to kill % faster leaves more room for error.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
How so?????
Roller
Smash Legend
I've always just used ftilt, but they seem to me to be the same timing. So switching shouldn't be an issue..
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
With the dual climbers, Wobbles seems to just outspace Peaches with really good movement / hammers when they're in the air and lands really good air combos. He also has a lot of little shield grab tricks that seem really good.