Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Binx]

Fly wouldn't fully charged fsmash into wobble work fine too? fsmash puts on a lot of percent.

 

[Kyu Puff]

According to Peef, she can wiggle out before you start wobbling. Some frame data for f-smash -> grab and d-smash -> grab would be nice, but I don't understand the mechanics of breaking out of grabs very well.

I don't think f-tilt -> grab is possible. You can't charge f-tilt, so in order to desynch it, Popo has to be doing something else, and it only has ~5 frames of hitlag. Whenever possible, just push Jiggs to the ledge and handoff.

 

[smakis]

blizzard > grab > blizzoble should work, switch to wobble for an easier time after 2 repetitions or so

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't think f-tilt -> grab is possible. You can't charge f-tilt, so in order to desynch it, Popo has to be doing something else, and it only has ~5 frames of hitlag. Whenever possible, just push Jiggs to the ledge and handoff.

It's really more like grab -> ftilt. I don't see why it shouldn't be possible; one inefficient way of doing it that shouldn't be too hard would be to do a spot-dodge desynch, have Nana do something that misses, have Popo utilt, then input an ftilt command right before the utilt ends, and then immediately grab. Nana's ftilt should hit right after Popo grabs Puff and you could go straight into a wobble.

 

[voorhese]

i always just the grab -> blizz to set up my wobbles. why would u go into a spotdodge -> desynch uptilt or w.e just grab and jab into blizzard -> timed wobbles

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Because the other person can often mash out before the first headbutt connects.

 

[ChivalRuse]

@ Voorhese: Since when do you play Ice Climbers?

 

[Wobbles]

Just won a tournament playing against DoH and Darkrain, so you'll get to see:

4 ICs vs. Peach -- Battlefield, Brinstar, Yoshi's, Dreamland
1 ICs vs. Falcon -- Pokemon I think?
3 ICs vs. Ganondorf -- Yoshi's, Battlefield, Brinstar

Darkrain decided he didn't want to play Falcon against me so sorry you won't get to see much of that >_>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I love you Wobbles.

 

[choknater]

yayyyyy

u said there were vids even before this one wobbs?

whose channel would they be on?

 

[ChivalRuse]

www.youtube.com/ICWobbles

 

[Vts]

Just won a tournament playing against DoH and Darkrain, so you'll get to see:

4 ICs vs. Peach -- Battlefield, Brinstar, Yoshi's, Dreamland
1 ICs vs. Falcon -- Pokemon I think?
3 ICs vs. Ganondorf -- Yoshi's, Battlefield, Brinstar

Darkrain decided he didn't want to play Falcon against me so sorry you won't get to see much of that >_>

sorry would have gone but had to work on sunday

until next time

also nice job

 

[Fly_Amanita]

While we're talking about results, here's what happened at the SD triweekly:

Singles Swiss RR

Doubles Swiss RR

Brackets

Singles
1: Lucky
2: Fly
3: Zhu
4: MacD
5: Sunny
5: Hyprid
7: Shadows
7: Jesse

Doubles
1: Zhu + MacD
2: Lucky + Azn Lep
3: Hyprid + Jkun
4: Boss + Deth

Spoiler

*went Sheik against Peaches*

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Yay!!

Was Zhu on point?

And McCain is really stepping his game up huh?

 

[voorhese]

@ Voorhese: Since when do you play Ice Climbers?

i have played them on and off since i played ganon lol, but never seriously

Because the other person can often mash out before the first headbutt connects.

well i thought u dont want to start wobbling until 30% anyway?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yay!!

Was Zhu on point?

And McCain is really stepping his game up huh?

I'm typically pretty bad at judging whether somebody is on point. Zhu did **** me really badly in the Swiss RR; I tried playing a little differently in brackets and it seemed to work better. McCain definitely seemed a little off when I played him in RR; I'd guess that he was a little off in brackets too since I don't normally pose much of a threat to him, although I do think reverting back to a slightly more refined version of my old obnoxious campy Sheik style did help a lot.

well i thought u dont want to start wobbling until 30% anyway?

The point of my proposed method is that it should become inescapable much more quickly than the usual ways of starting a wobble. Against somebody who button mashes really well, you probably won't be able to start a wobble until around that percentage if you just grab -> headbutt -> ftilt etc., but with my version, I bet that you could successfully start a wobble even on good mashers around 10-15%.

 

[voorhese]

ah i see, i guess i missunderstood

 

[Nintendude]

I got completely destroyed by Kage a couple days ago (3-stocked twice). In like 6 years I don't think I've ever been wrecked that badly in a tournament match, or even in non-tourney matches besides the occasional fluke.

Tips vs. Ganon? I feel like his moves suffocate me by pushing me to the edge of the stage, and once there Nana usually ends up dying. I can't figure out how to gain space vs. Ganon due to his jab and d-tilt and I also can't seem to get enough breathing room to use blizzard or ice blocks safely. Once I retreat I'm being chased with an unpunishable Fair, so it feels like retreating and trying to reset the position is just automatically losing space. I tried playing on Yoshi's round 1 (which was a mistake I think, due to lack of room) for low % kills. Then I tried the opposite round 2 by going Dreamland. I felt more comfortable there but, as expected, Ganon lives forever if you can't find reliable ways to smash or grab him.

My friends at school counterpick Ganon vs. me even though they don't use him and they do significantly better than they do with their mains

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you suspect that Ganon will do retreating fair, that's your cue to do DD -> blizzard desync.

If you suspect that Ganon will approach with fair, that's your cue to dash attack.

Avoid doing wd -> d-smash, because Ganon will always jump over it. (Do up-smash/f-smash instead.)

Those are the fundamantals.

I like to do wd -> jab early on to test if the Ganon will CC. If they prove to be proficient at this, then I know that I should dash attack him on the ground, because a sync'ed dash attack knocks down CCers.

Ice blocks (especially desynced) at mid-to-long range are great because they tempt Ganon into jumping, where you can often find openings for getting past/under him.

You can CC Ganon's side-b until ~33%.

 

[Wobbles]

Thanks Chival, even though I beat Darkrain's Ganon I'm still trying to figure out how to fight him properly. RockCrock did a number on me at TO6 and there's a lot I have to learn about that matchup. I'll try and remember to implement the DD de-sync next time I play (:

Having said that I seem to be baller at fighting him on Brinstar.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The Ganon match-up is really strange. Some of my current thoughts on it:

More so than almost any other match-up, you can't afford to let Ganon push you to the edge on his own terms, as I'm sure you've noticed. At least one IC will die if a really good Ganon is pressuring you when you're by the edge. That said, you need to try really hard to control the center. This doesn't necessarily mean occupying the very center of the stage; I don't like occupying that position on stages like BF and Yoshi's since I don't think it's very hard for Ganon to get around blizzard via platforms when you're there. I really like being near the inner edges of the outer platforms. When there, you can blizzard camp fairly safely. Ganon can hit you through the blizzard a number of ways, but you can beat all of those with a well-timed usmash/uair/utilt/etc. Also, should you need to retreat to the edge, you can, in which case you should try to immediately get a blizzard up as soon as possible afterwards, as it will grant you some breathing room, and from there, immediately try to get away from the edge again since you never want to be there for an extended period of time.

Regarding stages, I think your best CP options are FD and Stadium. Both of these are good because you have a lot of horizontal space and you can kill him off the top pretty well. I think Ganon's best stages against ICs, in no particular order, are Brinstar, DK64, Yoshi's, and Dreamland. Yoshi's is annoying because it's really hard to not be near an edge at any given time. Dreamland is hard because Ganon lives forever there, but he can still kill you and Nana quite well. Brinstar is Brinstar and DK64 suffers from many of the same problems as Dreamland, plus the strange layout works better for Ganon than it does for ICs.

 

[DoH]

Man up Fly

If robbles can do it so can you!

 

[Kyu Puff]

DK64 suffers from many of the same problems as Dreamland, plus the strange layout works better for Ganon than it does for ICs.

I wonder if we could pull a Pink Shinobi on that stage.

Synched squall is pretty quick and hard for him to follow...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Hmm... Maybe with Squall Hammer...

 

[Smasher89]

Used a few things that wobbles wrotea while ago in the ganon matchup. It went better with that but theres one very good thing that I noticed last time playing a ganon main:
Edgeguard with bair when they "should" get the ledge, it suprisingly hits even though it seems like the attack is perfecly sweetspotted, this puts Ganondorf in a very bad position where he probably has only 2 options, up-b early or a litte later.

Also I like big stages where ICs have room to maneuver, makes it much safer to bait those fairs.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So I know that our Up Tilt can be SDIed right?

Like is it at any percent?

Also is it only when someone is "on top" of our uptilt?

I was messing around and if you dthrow>uptilt Peach you can grab her again with Popo while she is still being forced into the ground via the bottom of uptilt.

Like you downthrow her and she bounces up into the bottom of the uptilt. You can regrab her if you time it right. it will work past 150% which is all you need since you can kill with a smash then.

 

[choknater]

until peach mains pick up secondaries, i think fly is pretty solid on going sheik vs peach

Spoiler

peach mains won't pick up secondaries

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have a Peach in my state who uses Marth as a secondary.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I should just make a vid of it.

 

[smakis]

I don't think it matters where the utilt hits, iirc you can smashDI everything as long as it produces more than 1 frame of hitlag?

 

[Kyu Puff]

U-tilt can't be sdi'd in 1.0 and 1.1 (not 100% sure, but I know after the first u-tilt it can't be). That sounds amazing. If it does work, you could d-throw -> u-tilt -> grab to 150%, and then finish her with a d-throw -> u-tilt -> up+b (canceling the u-tilt, guaranteed). :O

 

[Kyu Puff]

Okay, I just tried it out and I think it might actually work. The timing is hard, and it's not guaranteed at higher percents. But it should also work on any character lighter than Peach.

I propose the name "Gotta Catch Em All"...

 

[john!]

until peach mains pick up secondaries, i think fly is pretty solid on going sheik vs peach

Spoiler

peach mains won't pick up secondaries

last weekend a sheik player took a game off my peach

then i counterpicked ic's and won the set >:D muhhahaha

peach/ic's is the unstoppable mains combo

you heard it here first

 

[choknater]

i think ic's sheik is stronger since sheik is advantaged against peach

but ic's peach is definitely good, if you are good at the peach ditto

sucks that we need a secondary though hahah. unless you're a trooper like wobbs

 

[smakis]

U-tilt can't be sdi'd in 1.0 and 1.1 (not 100% sure, but I know after the first u-tilt it can't be). That sounds amazing. If it does work, you could d-throw -> u-tilt -> grab to 150%, and then finish her with a d-throw -> u-tilt -> up+b (canceling the u-tilt, guaranteed). :O

get out of here with your ntsc ****, pal is where it's at <3

And I'm sticking with ICs for peach, have to be some way to beat her ^_^

 

[_Rocky_]

And I'm sticking with ICs for peach, have to be some way to beat her ^_^

dont miss a ****

there you go

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik plays similarly to ics in the emphasis on getting grabs and generally being a defensive character

 

[choknater]

hey kk

ur prity legit

 

[ChivalRuse]

But he doesn't play Ice Climbers.

So why is he posting in here?

 

[choknater]

cuz he's the homie and also wants 2 kno our secrets