Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Wobbles]

I personally think you should shut well that's a good idea actually.

Fun fact: f-tilt reaches farther than d-smash; as a poking move it's safer and better, can be used with a retreating wavedash to stuff some aerial approaches, and at higher percents has less risk but can still get the opponent off the level.

Actually, I wanna just try playing matches without using d-smash at all. Tech-chase with grabs, grabs, and more grabs. In general I think we need to up our precision with ICs and d-smash, while the easier option, doesn't give enough reward. Plus the less you use it, more often the other guy has crummy DI when it connects.

I also want to start using d-tilt more... can't remember who mentioned it but it seems like it might be a really fun move to start using against spacies at higher percent. WD back into d-tilt as a defensive option to pop them up and maybe link into a finisher, or to send them onto platforms and maybe land a b-air. It could be pretty neato.

Apart from that I can't think of any IC moves I don't already use a whole bunch.

 

[Kyu Puff]

You can use it to punish missed techs in place of d-smash, because it pops your opponent up and sometimes leads into a grab. B-air -> dash attack is a really good combo on spacies, but after a certain percentage b-air starts to knock them down. You can still follow it up by dashing towards them and d-smashing if they miss the tech, or you can d-tilt -> grab. The downside of d-tilt is that it doesn't have a lot of stun, and I'm not sure if you can follow it up when they DI away.

...

I've also found opportunities to use d-tilt in the middle of combos. For example, if you sh u-air Falco and he lands right in front of you or something, you can d-tilt -> grab instead of just going for grab. I'm not sure if there are any situations where it's more than extra damage/flashiness, though.

I should probably use f-tilt more. I always think of it as an 'un-aesthetic' move and tend to stay away from it, but you're right--it's pretty good.

I also need to learn how to use f-air and ice block. I use them all the time, but they always miss or get me punished (and I don't think it's supposed to work like that...)

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love running SH ice block (with Nana synced). I spam that **** all day. It pseudo combos into grab, and even if they shield it, they have to deal with your follow up pressure. Especially effective vs Falco for shutting down his lasers too!

 

[Binx]

Binx vs Blunted Object

I 2 stocked his Falco in a match before this but if i remember right he sd'd once or twice, overall im pretty happy in my play in both these matches, some mistakes were made but nothing that I felt was huge.

Would love some critiquerizing

 

[choknater]

this is my first time ever seeing a vid of u play haha

marth matchup not bad, just be a little more consevative with the approaches cuz sometimes he was catching on. fall out of bad habits like rolling under marth's spaced shield pressure, and punish stuff in general. with more experience you'll just instantly react and grab if he shields next to you or whiffs an upB and lands on the ground

for ganon never be above him, and dont nair randomly. i can tell blunted is not a ganon main hahah. just def play that matchup more and be very analytical when you do. ganon has a lot of weaknesses and openings, like having to double jump if he doesnt wanna sh aerial you. nana blizzard keeps u safe for a little while vs ganon and can at least reset spacing. u just gotta watch him jump and dont let him get too close

zoning is so important vs both characters so find the proper zones where u are at an advantage. the zones are actually pretty similar for ganon and marth

 

[Binx]

the one roll was supposed to be a wavedash, it was a tech skill mistake not a decision one.

Yeah I dont have lots of experience vs Ganon, I have a friend who plays him but hes not that great at the game in general so I dont really get good practice except for some practice comboing. I feel like Marth is one of my best match ups I actually beat 3 Marth mains during the tournament, part of it is just that BO is better than I am.

 

[choknater]

haha aight my bad. yea you seemed pretty solid at the marth matchup, just keep it up. i'd normally say 'punish harder' but it was a friendly and i tend to cheese from grabs in friendlies too lol.

 

[ChivalRuse]

As Chok was saying, try to stay below your opponent rather than vice versa, Binx. I saw a number of times when you put yourself above Blunted (or let him get level with you, rather than remaining lower than him yourself) when you could have maintained that positional advantage better. This is really important with ICs as you know, but I just want to emphasize it again.

 

[Binx]

Thanks guys I appreciate the tips.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So, how do people feel about Dthrow > Jab > Re-grab?

I rarely see it used, but it seems like it'd be good to mix-up with our other chain-grabs.

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's especially useful when Nana isn't quite yet synced enough for the d-throw dair. That's a situation when I'll be more likely to go for it.

 

[choknater]

haha generally these days i tend to think that something escapable must not be that good

but still, mixups are nice and i can't really say much about how 'reliable' they are cuz they are mixups...

so just do what u want! do as much damage as u want, the way you want to!

 

[ChivalRuse]

I wouldn't really consider this a mixup, since it can be escaped using the same inputs that would be used to get out of d-throw dair anyway. I guess it might be useful for confusing Falcons when they try to smash DI the reverse dair cg, but most Falcons can't consistently get out of it anyway. Soooooooo

 

[smakis]

I mostly use jab to grab when they are too high up after a dashattack in order to carry them down into grabrange.

 

[choknater]

i'm usually very impressed when falcos escape reverse dair. if they do i'm like "aight, you deserved it."

bizzarro flame SDI's it down (or something like that) and grabs me immediately after. so sexy

 

[Smasher89]

I´ve even got a fox that upsmashed from SDI from dthrow dair lol, I should probably switch CG to go a bit antimetagame(not really antimetagame since the players has found their sollutions, and I´ve just to step it up, would be more fun IF I could use their DI to make them screw up instead though, dthrow fake jump regrab is one way, but maybe there´s something even more punishing?).

 

[smakis]

well. i dunno...how about wobble? =)

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Wobbling is usually banned at most tournies. Well, in the US anyways.

I tried Blizzobling for the first time a few days ago.

Pretty difficult.

 

[smakis]

dont think it has ever been banned in sweden (smasher would know more about that)

 

[Smasher89]

Nope, it's not banned here(never been aware of it being banned here either, and it sure hasn't been as long as I've played IC's (Once kinda in Skåne though, without any definition XD). Sure it's really good.

But for example at those really low % the opponents will just mash out of it, and getting a 30-40% kill(hi falco) due to the opponent trying and thinking they escaped a chaingrab is going to create a perfecly safe guessinggame where the risk is just hitting them with something not named dair and possibly not getting a regrab(which you wont get with dair anyway) and the reward can be both early kills, AND no smashDI on the dair if mixed up(due to fear with more). It's harder to mentally deal with being tricked and just doing a simple mistake(where wobbling comes to mind). Frustrated opponents likes to get easier grabbed.

How is the framedata on dthrow, nana bair(smashDI input like for dair) to Popo wavesmash\similar? on low (under 30)%?, is it viable or very very easy to escape even if you don't see it coming?

Also, a DI'd upthrowed fastfaller seems to be caught(taking jump) by a quick nair, is there any framedata advantage for SoPo if they try to DI and jump?

 

[Rubyiris]

How necessary are the IC chain grains? I've been playing Ice Climbers recently and I've been having relatively decent success just spacing and punishing mistakes.

I'm a very big fan of IC's nair and usmash.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The only ones that could be considered "necessary" would be Wobbling and the Hand-Off.

I can't see any reason not to do other chain grabs though.

 

[Rubyiris]

i'm usually very impressed when falcos escape reverse dair. if they do i'm like "aight, you deserved it."

bizzarro flame SDI's it down (or something like that) and grabs me immediately after. so sexy

Wobbles did dthrow dair to me underneath a platform on battlefield.

I sdi'd onto the platform.

He paused the game and just stared in awe.

It was a good day.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-throw dair is a must learn, simply because you can play mindgames with it.

Here's how: the opponent thinks you'll do a cg when you grab him. So he SDIs to try to escape. Instead, you do d-throw -> f-smash and he dies from poor DI.

Next time, you cg because he's survival DIing, so the d-throw dair is guaranteed.

F-smash regrab isn't necessary, but it's useful.

Handoff is also useful, because it's guaranteed, unlike d-throw dair.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I disagree about D-throw dair being a "must learn".

It's obviously useful, but ICs have enough tools to make up for not using it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's just too good for building damage, especially when you know your opponent won't do anything to preclude you from using it successfully.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

How necessary are the IC chain grains? I've been playing Ice Climbers recently and I've been having relatively decent success just spacing and punishing mistakes.

I'm a very big fan of IC's nair and usmash.

How necessary they are depends on just how successful you want to be with them. I would say they are pretty much essential for doing well in big tourneys; in addition to simply making ICs' grab game much better, they also make many other characters' moves/tactics that work fine on most of the cast just not worth it against ICs the majority of the time. For example, Sheik's ftilt is extremely unreliable against ICs at moderately low percentages since ICs can CC -> dash grab it and then dthrow -> dtilt or just dthrow CG her to a very high percentage or death. Her dsmash is risky for similar reasons. If an ICs player cannot consistently perform either of those CGs (or wobble!), then Sheik doesn't have to be as cautious about throwing out those moves and can thus play in a much less limited way.

The Sheik match-up in particular is kind of an extreme example since ICs' grab game has a huge effect on how the match-up works, but the great payoff ICs can get from a grab against the rest of the cast is enough to shut down many characters' otherwise bread-and-butter tools in a similar way.


Regarding the posts about how essential dthrow -> dair is, whether it is absolutely necessary to learn isn't a very useful topic. It's extremely solid and is something that every ICs should player learn.

 

[ChivalRuse]

^ Sheik's unstaled f-tilt can be CC -> dash/JC grabbed until precisely 85 percent, FYI, Fly.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Ha, I was about to ask if that was for a fresh ftilt.

I just had a funny thought: if you're doing doubles and your teammate grabs an opponent, can you infinite the grabbed character with desynched utilts? I know it's not exactly useful, but it would be amusing to see.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well yeah... but you can wobble with most jabs and tilts in teams with every character anyway.

 

[Smasher89]

^ Sheik's unstaled f-tilt can be CC -> dash/JC grabbed until precisely 85 percent, FYI, Fly.

LOL I'm so gonna wavedash>cc into their ftilts even at the ledge more now!

 

[PEEF!]

Ha, I was about to ask if that was for a fresh ftilt.

I just had a funny thought: if you're doing doubles and your teammate grabs an opponent, can you infinite the grabbed character with desynched utilts? I know it's not exactly useful, but it would be amusing to see.

Something tells me that nana and popo would "scoot away" after the first or second one.

 

[ChivalRuse]

What would be pushing them? There's nothing to give them momentum. Lol.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm at this weird place where I feel like I have the potential to beat most people, but I'm not consistent enough and tend to fall back on habits instead of making good reads... like I can keep up with good players, but never pull through the whole way...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm at this weird place where my mind is working faster than my hands and I'm screwing everything up.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I have a lot of weird habits, but I can suppress them with a lot of effort. Also, I did pretty well at a tourney today, although Lucky ***** me.

Woohoo

 

[ChivalRuse]

Is there a Grev every week?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

How many IC players are going to Pound 5?

Everyone who is going should meet up for some epic IC doubles dittos.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm going.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Is there a Grev every week?

Every month. The tourney I was just at was a San Diego Triweekly, though.


The topic of punishing missed rests came up a while ago; I bet that the best way of punishing rest when wobbling is legal would be to have Nana ftilt via some desynch, have Popo grab before the ftilt connects, and go straight into a wobble from there. I think that Puff would only be able to escape if she could break out before the first ftilt connects, but that should happen almost instantly.