Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Smasher89]

Yea you can actually waveland, and desynch when getting of the platform.
Can be good for quick control over the platform(Popo iceblck), then use the desynch to cover space beneath it with Nana blizzard, which by that time Popo is free to move and pressure again.

 

[Vts]

Yea you can actually waveland, and desynch when getting of the platform.
Can be good for quick control over the platform(Popo iceblck), then use the desynch to cover space beneath it with Nana blizzard, which by that time Popo is free to move and pressure again.

old news to me.

i know a lot of stuff that is really nifty and can be used but never post it :S

u can also make nana perfect waveland while you airdodge on the ground to do a nana falling move

 

[Kyu Puff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_yqpfcNLw

 

[Vts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_yqpfcNLw

Yeah knew 90% of that stuff except the snow glitch on poke'mon.

you can also waveland jab on platform and stop and nana sits on the edge and does her stupid over the ledge.

can be desynced into many things.

 

[voorhese]

i really like the climbers, and i am gonna start messing with them a lot more (not because i want to play them in tourneys, but because the unsurfaced metagame is so fascinating, if i get good enough to play them i will, but im not playing to get better...just to find little tricks etc) one i found today that i remember from A LONG time ago (when i did play them) is that if you dash/wavedash towards your opponent and pivot grab in the other direction, nana does her dash grab backwards and grab them...this is nice near an edge because i have been able to follow up with wavedash into regrab after she throws them towards the edge (if she jabs at least once first, is there a way to MAKE her jab?)

 

[Vts]

i really like the climbers, and i am gonna start messing with them a lot more (not because i want to play them in tourneys, but because the unsurfaced metagame is so fascinating, if i get good enough to play them i will, but im not playing to get better...just to find little tricks etc) one i found today that i remember from A LONG time ago (when i did play them) is that if you dash/wavedash towards your opponent and pivot grab in the other direction, nana does her dash grab backwards and grab them...this is nice near an edge because i have been able to follow up with wavedash into regrab after she throws them towards the edge (if she jabs at least once first, is there a way to MAKE her jab?)

hope and pray

also if you hand off and nana d-thorws u can just turn around and reverse grab to change ur side.

to bad u can't make nana turn around and grab from ur d-throw that would be broken

 

[Kyu Puff]

Yeah knew 90% of that stuff except the snow glitch on poke'mon.

you can also waveland jab on platform and stop and nana sits on the edge and does her stupid over the ledge.

can be desynced into many things.

that's cuz i made the video 3 years ago...

i was just saying i found the waveland thingy...

 

[Fly_Amanita]

This might be a silly question, but is it possible for ICs to do an invulnerable ledge stall via repeated Nana-rockets? I know that Nana-rockets can be done quite quickly, but I have no intuition about whether they can be done rapidly enough for Popo to grab the edge again before losing invulnerability.

If so, it could have some neat applications, like stalling when Brinstar's lava rises so that you don't need to retreat to a bad position, and dealing with some characters' respawn invincibility.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Aaah Fly I was just about to post about that. I'm glad you called it Nana rockets because I did not know how to describe it without going into detail.

I just got done fooling aroundwith nana rockets and handoffs.

2 observations on nana rockets.
You can keep nana totally invinceable. You can shoot her then grab the ledge and shoot her again before her invincibility ends.

And my second observation is you can have some really cool follow ups when she hits someone on the platform on stages like BF YI or FoD.


Also downthrow to wd upsmash -> tech chase off of nana's upsmash is pretty sweet.

 

[voorhese]

i have been seeing great success with desynch -> charge forward/down smash (nana) -> wavedash onto edge (popo) -> roll off edge (popo) + release smash (nana)

its basically the husband and wife edgeguard

im not sure if you guys do this already or not, but im not gonna try and look, i would much rather just look dumb than spend time looking for it.

edit: also if they are a spacie and forward b past nana, i have enough time to waveland as popo instead of rolling, and grabbing them...and you know what that means...

 

[john!]

i definitely remember seeing a top ic's player do charged nana fsmash > popo ledgegrab as an edgeguard

i forget who it was, but it was pretty ****

 

[Kyu Puff]

The problem with that edgeguard is that as soon as you grab the ledge, you lose control of Nana and she releases the smash. It works if you wd -> ff to the ledge right before they would grab it, but the timing can be difficult. If you're looking for a way to cover all options, having Nana grab the ledge might be easier (although it still takes time to set up).

A while ago I found an alternative to roll -> up+b that might get Nana on the ledge a little bit faster. It was something like dash dance -> roll to make Nana slide off backwards, but I can't really remember the inputs. I think it's something like, dash towards the ledge -> dash away and shield -> immediately hold down and towards the ledge. I can't do it consistently now, but I think it's supposed to make Popo shield and Nana slide backwards.

Fly: Nana is invulnerable frames 5-59, so you can probably keep her invulnerable the entire time she's in the air. When you first up+b, she has a few frames of vulnerability, but that might not matter because (I think) she teleports below you. I don't think Popo can stay invulnerable (unless there's some instant drop off -> Nana rocket I don't know about).

Even if you aren't invincible the whole time, Nana rockets tend to be safe. People always underestimate how long Nana is invulnerable for, try to hit her and run into the hitbox...
Double jump stalling with solo Popo is also pretty effective...

 

[voorhese]

hey pretty random, but i found that if you get the chance to do this on like fox/falco (most likely if you shield break them...so never).... it looks pretty

have nana charge a fsmash, and then if you time your ice block you hit them with your hammer/iceblock for a 3 hit combo and pops them up into chaingrab range if you hit them at low%.....maybe if a puff misses a rest it could lead into a uair or something...(if ur in the middle of stage better than trying handoffs?)

 

[PEEF!]

Fly, the nana rocket thing won't work. Everyone I play with knows that there is a tiny window to hit nana.

Pokemon Master, you cannot re-nana rocket her in order to keep her invulnerable. I do this in my regular gameplay and I can assure you it cannot be done.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Okay, that's good to know.

 

[voorhese]

nother new thing for yalls, you can wobble if you hold back and spam a instead if d,f,df
basically nana does her jabs then turns around, and then back around then her jabs again...and the window of error feels a lot smaller than traditional wobbling....to me at least, thats how imma do it from now on

 

[PEEF!]

nother new thing for yalls, you can wobble if you hold back and spam a instead if d,f,df
basically nana does her jabs then turns around, and then back around then her jabs again...and the window of error feels a lot smaller than traditional wobbling....to me at least, thats how imma do it from now on

Jabobble, we knew. It's gonna be tough to come up with something truly new. We know about all this stuff but most of it isnt useful, or there is simply a better option.

 

[voorhese]

DONT RUIN MY DREAMS PEEF!!!! lol i guess now my new years resolution is to find something truly new and useful for the climbers...=)

 

[Kyu Puff]

There are probably still new things to find--when I first picked up ICs I was finding tons of those situational desynchs. But *useful*, I don't know... In the past year we've gotten blizzobbling, a few good desynchs, f-smash cg (I think?), and probably more I'm forgetting...

Somebody should learn the desynched b-air pillar, or at least make a TAS video of it. Frame-wise it's as hard to escape as multishining, and it does a lot more shield damage.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Somebody should learn the desynched b-air pillar, or at least make a TAS video of it. Frame-wise it's as hard to escape as multishining, and it does a lot more shield damage.

I'm learning this right now.

 

[Kyu Puff]

You should be warned, it's pretty much frame perfect...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You should be warned, it's pretty much frame perfect...

I'm tech-skilled

I can do the wave-pillar-shine semi-infinite as Fox.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Well, if you're interested:

1 *Shield Stun (1), Start Jump
2 Shield Stun (2)
3 Shield Stun (3)
1 Shield Stun (4), Start B-air
2 Shield Stun (5)
3 Shield Stun (6)
4 Shield Stun (7)
5 Fastfall
6
7
8 B-air Hits, Hitlag (1)
8 Hitlag (2)
8 Hitlag (3)
8 Hitlag (4)
8 Hitlag (5)
8 Hitlag (6)
8 Hitlag (7)
9 Shield Stun (1), Start Jump
10 Shield Stun (2)
11 Shield Stun (3)
12 Shield Stun (4), Start B-air
13 Shield Stun (5)
14 Shield Stun (6)
15 Shield Stun (7)
16 Fastfall
17
18
19 B-air Hits, Hitlag (1)
20 Hitlag (2)
21 Hitlag (3)
1 Landing Lag, Hitlag (4)
2 Landing Lag, Hitlag (5)
3 Landing Lag, Hitlag (6)
4 Landing Lag, Hitlag (7)*

I think this is right; hope I didn't mess up.

So basically: Jump (1), B-air (4), Fastfall (8), Jump (18, repeat)... I don't even know how you would go about setting it up, the best way is probably late b-air -> l-cancel desynch...

 

[Fly_Amanita]

In the past year we've gotten blizzobbling, a few good desynchs, f-smash cg (I think?), and probably more I'm forgetting...

That is from mid-2009.


The ICs' metagame progresses at an odd rate. Most of the semi-recent improvements to their metagame that I can think of are just better applications of things that were already known.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The ICs' metagame is always fresh because all the old tricks are still underground. Like people are constantly wtf-ing when I do reverse f-smash from a grab just because nobody ever watched the good ICs players who aren't Chu.

 

[Winston]

I'm tech-skilled

I can do the wave-pillar-shine semi-infinite as Fox.

Is this a joke?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Is this a joke?

Yes it is.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

IC metagame is weird because we discover a lot about the character but it usually takes us a long time before we are able to apply it.

 

[Binx]

hey pretty random, but i found that if you get the chance to do this on like fox/falco (most likely if you shield break them...so never).... it looks pretty

have nana charge a fsmash, and then if you time your ice block you hit them with your hammer/iceblock for a 3 hit combo and pops them up into chaingrab range if you hit them at low%.....maybe if a puff misses a rest it could lead into a uair or something...(if ur in the middle of stage better than trying handoffs?)

vs Puff if she missed a rest I pretty much just always charge a fsmash into grab and blizzard uthrow usmash

 

[ChivalRuse]

^ Ooh I always forget about that punish.

 

[Wobbles]

I like the charge smash -> grab punish on rest because when Nana resyncs she's at the perfect timing to start an infinite.

Zero percent infinites baby.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I used to do that, but now I usually try to push her to a ledge and handoff. If you are close enough you can do both, which is even cooler.

 

[PEEF!]

They can wiggle out of the Fsmash>grab>infinite Hungrybox did at east.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

@ PEEF

Try it on Yoshi's Island.

@ Everyone

Something interesting I just found out, if you time the Nana Rocket a certain way, (This is on Yoshi's Island) Nana just teleports to the platform and grab the edge. She just appears standing there not doing any actions.


It feels similar to the Down B off a platform teleport, except Nana doesn's do anything.


Edit
@ Peef

I can keep Nana off the ground, almost always traveling upwards.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I did kind of meh at a tourney today. There'll finally be footage of me wobbling, though!

I'm starting to think that I've been lying to myself when I say that I have off-days after doing poorly. It seems more likely that there are just fundamental flaws with my decision-making that sometimes raise their heads rather than that I just don't play as well sometimes for a number of bizarre reasons.

Anyways, there are three main things I think I need to work on:

1) Be more technically consistent. This is mainly because I'm using a new controller with which it's easy to accidentally jump. This will require time and effort, but it should be easy since there's nothing conceptually difficult about it.

2) Make better decisions and be more keenly aware of why they're good. This is a kind of obvious-sounding thing, but a lot of the time I have a decent idea of what my opponent is going to do, but I don't choose an option that accomplishes all that much. I actually think that more often than less, I do make very good decisions, but I do stupid things often enough to cost me matches. I'm not sure how to go about fixing this other than playing people better than me and putting a lot of effort into keeping track of what I'm doing and what I could be doing better.

3) Get better at adapting in real time. As much thought as I've put into the topic, it's still very difficult for me to keep track of what is happening over the course of a game. I've been able to deal with this pretty well by just spending a lot of time between matches to think about what happened and what I could have done differently, but that can only help me so much. I think fixing this will require playing somebody who either learns habits quickly or already knows my habits well for quite a while, which would probably be stressful, but should pay off.

 

[choknater]

just got back from a week vacation in florida

currently studying fly vs lucky

pretty good matches

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'll probably analyze those sets later. Good Foxes are hard to deal with.

 

[PEEF!]

@ PEEF

Try it on Yoshi's Island.

@ Everyone

Something interesting I just found out, if you time the Nana Rocket a certain way, (This is on Yoshi's Island) Nana just teleports to the platform and grab the edge. She just appears standing there not doing any actions.


It feels similar to the Down B off a platform teleport, except Nana doesn's do anything.


Edit
@ Peef

I can keep Nana off the ground, almost always traveling upwards.

Vids of the full invincibility. I absolutely cannot do it and keep her from getting hit by a falcon uair when he knows the timing.

Yeah, if you do the rocket at the last possible couple frames, she will just teleport to you and fall. The "up we go!" part didn't start yet. On yoshis this results in her just teleporting back to the platform over and over.

 

[ChivalRuse]

So the "failed launch" occurs if you do the up-b cancel a bit too late?

 

[PEEF!]

So the "failed launch" occurs if you do the up-b cancel a bit too late?

Basically yes. Upb jusssst before you would snap to the ledge.