ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
That happens to me too much. It's annoying. Well, anyway, duly noted.
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I am at work all day, but I can make a vid maybe tomorrow showing how fast I am able to do it.
I base my assumption of full invincibility on that fact that Nana is (to my knowledge) invincible until she lands. She never touches the ground and is almost perpetually being sent upward.
I have done it so fast (vs a CPU Falcon) that it comboed at around 60ish% vs fast fallers. (Upb hit -> Up B Hit) also Nana Rocket to grab is pretty do able as well. (With platforms)
I base my assumption of full invincibility on that fact that Nana is (to my knowledge) invincible until she lands. She never touches the ground and is almost perpetually being sent upward.
I have done it so fast (vs a CPU Falcon) that it comboed at around 60ish% vs fast fallers. (Upb hit -> Up B Hit) also Nana Rocket to grab is pretty do able as well. (With platforms)
Yeah that assumption is incorrect. Invincibility doesn't last even close to her getting back to the ground. Just watch her, she loses invincibility just as she starts to head downwards. I am confident that I do this trick frame perfectly and there is always a slight gap.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Hmm let's see.
Frame perfect? How do you define that, you are saying you are UP-Bing continuously as fast as possible?
Frame perfect? How do you define that, you are saying you are UP-Bing continuously as fast as possible?
UpBing as early as possible while still catching the nana-rocket, fastfalling popo and doing it again.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
The assumption that you're frame perfect is usually incorrect too, but PEEF might be right anyways. I tried it out; it looked like I did it a few times without Nana going into the freefall/descending animation, but there might have still been a few frames of vulnerability at the end.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
She still hits people on her way down. (For a little bit)
I am pretty sure she is still invincible, I would love to have the frame data, that would answer all my questions.
I just know I bait people with Nana Rockets and my ho does work.
I am pretty sure she is still invincible, I would love to have the frame data, that would answer all my questions.
I just know I bait people with Nana Rockets and my ho does work.
I don't mean truly frame perfect =P, but I do mean effectively frame perfect, or "as good as could be expected"
She can hit just as she turns down, but she loses invincibility then as well.
The frame data is in the IC frame data thread. You can view it there.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I just want someone to present it to me and tell me for a fact if I am wrong or right haha.
I am doing homework right now, I do not want to do anymore work lol.
I am quite lazy sometimes.
I am doing homework right now, I do not want to do anymore work lol.
I am quite lazy sometimes.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Alright, I have a question.
Wobbling is commonly banned in Australian major tourneys and other states (I am a TO in my state and have made sure to legalize it), is it worth trying to get the other states to un-ban it?
I've tried before and it is obvious they won't listen to reason, should I even bother or is it impossible?
Wobbling is commonly banned in Australian major tourneys and other states (I am a TO in my state and have made sure to legalize it), is it worth trying to get the other states to un-ban it?
I've tried before and it is obvious they won't listen to reason, should I even bother or is it impossible?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
There is no reason to ban it.
There are like 10 IC climber mains in the world.
The reason it was ever banned, was for stalling reasons.
You can be in the lead and just wobble someone until time runs out and kill them right before time expires.
There are like 10 IC climber mains in the world.
The reason it was ever banned, was for stalling reasons.
You can be in the lead and just wobble someone until time runs out and kill them right before time expires.
Good luck. People ban what they don't like if they can get enough people to complain with them.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Yeah, that's what I thought >_>
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
That is really cool and all, but its completely different for a Nana Rocket.
Dont get me wrong that was really cool and helpful, but Nana Rocket is literally a different move.
Dont get me wrong that was really cool and helpful, but Nana Rocket is literally a different move.
Did quite well at a big european tournament this weekend(Beast), top 13, loosing to Pepito(Falco, might have been 3-0), and Calle W where I finally got a point(3-1) against him which I had not achieved since dec 08, also breaking a loooong streak in losing against Dev and won 2-0(in pools though :/).
I feel theres two(excluding wobbling) bigger things I've to learn to get top 7 or 5, more use of uair+platformcontrol(one desynch feels really good on PS for that purpose(forward B OoS>Nana blizzard>Popo free to move,gotta learn when to use it).
And adapt my grab based game more, maybe desynch out of whiffed grabs, and not get baited to grab as much.
I feel theres two(excluding wobbling) bigger things I've to learn to get top 7 or 5, more use of uair+platformcontrol(one desynch feels really good on PS for that purpose(forward B OoS>Nana blizzard>Popo free to move,gotta learn when to use it).
And adapt my grab based game more, maybe desynch out of whiffed grabs, and not get baited to grab as much.
Quick question. Would be greatful for an answer. How do you quickly make nana use blizzard alone without sidestep desyncing? In some videos, it looked like WD backwards --> dash forward --> Blizzard, but I couldn't get it to work. Tips? Thanks.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
That is the dash dance desync.
Fly does it a lot.
Fly does it a lot.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
It's not a different move. Nana behaves the same way in a Nana rocket as she does in a normal up+b. That video is useful because it shows you what her animation looks like on frame 59 (the last frame of invincibility--green means invulnerable).
I feel like it is possible based on that... I've gotten consecutive Nana rockets that look like they cut her off at that point, but I still don't know for sure.
Yea, that's what I wanted to figure out how to do. So you just dash dance and then use down b? Seems to me that Fly does it very quickly.
Oh, also, how do you get nana to jump on the ledge to briefly edge hog? Something to do with shield and up b?
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
You de-synch into an up-b and direct her off the stage.
It's not very useful though, just looks flashy.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
So fooling around practicing stuff I came across something interesting.
If you have both ICies light shielding or you have Popo with small shield and Nana Light shielding, if some one hits your shield you can input a roll for Popo and have Nana cover you with an Aerial.
Its pretty sweet.
If you have both ICies light shielding or you have Popo with small shield and Nana Light shielding, if some one hits your shield you can input a roll for Popo and have Nana cover you with an Aerial.
Its pretty sweet.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
I do that a lot by mistake trying to Bair OoS.
It does lead to cool things if you can hitconfirm it though. I once baired and rolled and then grabbed them after they got hit with the bair.
It does lead to cool things if you can hitconfirm it though. I once baired and rolled and then grabbed them after they got hit with the bair.
^
I do it on accident but it ***** =)
anyhow, placed 25th at beast after choking in brackets (lost both games =/) with my wobble consistency being down the drain, also played armada and realised just how impossible the peach matchup is when the peach is playing it right. Floating above usmash/fsmash/blizzard range, spacing fairs over and over, the only way to touch her is by desynching then jumping with an ice block/blizzard or going in with an aerial, thing is if you miss nana is dead without fail. Obviously I would have been ***** no matter what character, but it feels futile to play a character that gets countered so hard (from what I heard from armada even wobbles got consistently three stocked).
I also noticed that when progressing to 2nd round of pools and in the brackets I would get hardcore camped once they realised I could wobble/handoff, smart of course, but having to constantly chase them was just frustrating (I know I could camp them back but I prefer not to).
tl;dr
Most likely dropping Ice Climbers
I do it on accident but it ***** =)
anyhow, placed 25th at beast after choking in brackets (lost both games =/) with my wobble consistency being down the drain, also played armada and realised just how impossible the peach matchup is when the peach is playing it right. Floating above usmash/fsmash/blizzard range, spacing fairs over and over, the only way to touch her is by desynching then jumping with an ice block/blizzard or going in with an aerial, thing is if you miss nana is dead without fail. Obviously I would have been ***** no matter what character, but it feels futile to play a character that gets countered so hard (from what I heard from armada even wobbles got consistently three stocked).
I also noticed that when progressing to 2nd round of pools and in the brackets I would get hardcore camped once they realised I could wobble/handoff, smart of course, but having to constantly chase them was just frustrating (I know I could camp them back but I prefer not to).
tl;dr
Most likely dropping Ice Climbers
choknater
Smash Obsessed
dont drop em! meh peach is the only hard counter
apart from ken's peach theory, here's another theory that is almost always correct: peach mains never have a solid secondary
prolly the only exception i know is c0nn0r hahah
so just become godlike with another character in the peach matchup!
apart from ken's peach theory, here's another theory that is almost always correct: peach mains never have a solid secondary
prolly the only exception i know is c0nn0r hahah
so just become godlike with another character in the peach matchup!
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I picked up Fox specifically for the Peach MU, but my ICs do better against Peach than my Fox anyway xD
Am I just stupid, or is it impossible to Pivot de-synch specials?
Am I just stupid, or is it impossible to Pivot de-synch specials?
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
I've always felt that way too Grim. I'm guessing you tried a pivot desynch Ice Block? It feels like there is more startup to them than other pivots.
Not just IC, but any character.
Not just IC, but any character.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Yeah, I was trying Ice Block.
Hmmm... Can has frame data, someone?
Hmmm... Can has frame data, someone?
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Also, Smakis, if they Float and fair constantly, a spaced Bair beats Fair everytime I believe
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
You can space fair as well, if you happen to be facing her and predict it.
I know bair beat it out, thing is if you miss even once nana dies =P, the ICs has to play perfectly the whole time while peach only need one hit. It's not like he fairs mindlessly, if he notices I'm trying to space something in his face he retreats/drops down to the ground to instantly jump backwards and start floating again.
Also forgot to mention that armada is the only peach I have these kind of trouble with, hack and va is totally doable (though hack refuses to play my ICs outside of tournament and va is quitting x)), and I doubt I will get a secondary good enough to beat armada =).
Also forgot to mention that armada is the only peach I have these kind of trouble with, hack and va is totally doable (though hack refuses to play my ICs outside of tournament and va is quitting x)), and I doubt I will get a secondary good enough to beat armada =).
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Ugh. Don't get me started on Peach. I might start intentionally leaving Nana behind so that I don't have to worry about her when I approach Peach. 
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Alright
So at the very least, I feel like we should all come together to discuss how we can shut this ***** down. lol
We need a big skype/msn get-together or something.
So at the very least, I feel like we should all come together to discuss how we can shut this ***** down. lol
We need a big skype/msn get-together or something.
smakis: My first matches against Armada I was super nervous because 1) it was Armada and 2) I was up on a big screen with lots of people watching. I'm inconsistent enough as is, let alone when I get really nervous. Once I played more friendlies with him later I started bringing the stock count down, and there is still a lot I have yet to learn about this game and myself. I don't think it's hopeless at all.
I feel I've improved a lot from both mental and technical standpoints though, so if we play again, I hope I can make you regain a bit of faith. Suffice to say f-air spam is NOT unbeatable... the problem is that Armada is incredibly good at reading movement and spacing his aerials, and having good unpredictable movement is one of the keys of playing ICs against everybody, especially Peach.
I don't think he'll believe me though, not unless we get the chance to play and I can show him what I've learned (;
I feel I've improved a lot from both mental and technical standpoints though, so if we play again, I hope I can make you regain a bit of faith. Suffice to say f-air spam is NOT unbeatable... the problem is that Armada is incredibly good at reading movement and spacing his aerials, and having good unpredictable movement is one of the keys of playing ICs against everybody, especially Peach.
I don't think he'll believe me though, not unless we get the chance to play and I can show him what I've learned (;
john!
Smash Hero
wobbles you were going to make a vs. peach guide, right? give the people what they want! lol
personally i'd like to read it so that i know what tricks ic's players will use against my peach.
personally i'd like to read it so that i know what tricks ic's players will use against my peach.
I know it's not unbeatable, it's just too depressing seeing nana die if you fail even once. I know you ****, I have always hoped you will beat armada and prove that what I was telling armada isn't wrong (that the matchup isnt that bad >_>). I did only play two games with him so I didn't have a lot of chances to try stuff out. Anyhow even though I will practice with a new character I can still just shake the rust of my ICs if I ever wanna go back.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I noticed you occasionally used full jump nair to punish Armada's floats. Is there a specific reasoning behind that? Or is that something that you would want to talk about in depth in the VLog?
I was mostly using it because setting up b-air takes too long (and looks too obvious), and he was in a position of waiting to space his f-airs precisely. N-air was fast and relatively safe, assuming he didn't just hit me out of it.
Those matches were... really depressing for me. I was really unhappy after them because I wanted to see how I stacked up to him and I could barely move at all.
And nobody really understood why I was upset about my play, they just kept saying "it's peach lol," a line of reasoning that makes me want to kick people in the face.
Those matches were... really depressing for me. I was really unhappy after them because I wanted to see how I stacked up to him and I could barely move at all.
And nobody really understood why I was upset about my play, they just kept saying "it's peach lol," a line of reasoning that makes me want to kick people in the face.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I think we should talk about moves that we personally use the least, and focus on using more of our moveset. And on the same note, talk about moves we use a lot, and try to look at using them differently or in different situations.