General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[finalark]

Omg ffxiv added the race stats back

 

[Jon Farron]

So SE just released the changes they're making from the feedback they gained from the weekend. Wow, they are REALLY LISTENING! :D

 

[finalark]

So SE just released the changes they're making from the feedback they gained from the weekend. Wow, they are REALLY LISTENING! :D

Is there anyway you can link the change log without violating the NDA?

 

[Jon Farron]

I can't, it's directly on the beta forums. Sorry. D:

 

[Jon Farron]

FFXIV Magitek armor! :D

 

[finalark]

Complete with a green-haired girl and two others stomping around a snowy landscape.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Complete with a green-haired girl and two others stomping around a snowy landscape.

AND remixed music of the FFVI theme!

 

[finalark]

It makes me wonder what other mounts they're going to add to ARR.

Red XIII mount would be lulzy as ****.

 

[LivewiresXe]

It makes me wonder what other mounts they're going to add to ARR.

Red XIII mount would be lulzy as ****.

I totally just pictured Red XIII riding Magitek armor.

 

[Minato]

This was a nice watch http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ybbqrs/gametrailers-com-memo-to-square-enix

Hope Square can become how they used to be. I'm pretty sure they can get quality stuff out again (on consoles). XIII was a miss for me, but that's mostly because I don't think it lived up to its potential. The idea in the game was interesting, but wasn't executed properly by the scenario and characters. If it was given some more polish, it would've been pretty nice.

 

[finalark]

This was a nice watch http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ybbqrs/gametrailers-com-memo-to-square-enix

I'll be honest, there was a lot of rose-tinted glasses going down in that video but it does make several very good point that I agree with.

Hope Square can become how they used to be. I'm pretty sure they can get quality stuff out again (on consoles). XIII was a miss for me, but that's mostly because I don't think it lived up to its potential. The idea in the game was interesting, but wasn't executed properly by the scenario and characters. If it was given some more polish, it would've been pretty nice.

Honestly, I liked XIII. Yes, it had issues such as the battle system feeling extremely slow, the paradigm system feeling underutilized and the plot feeling extremely rushed. But despite that I liked some of the ideas it's game play presented, I like a majority of the main characters and the story had a very interesting take on gods that I haven't seen in a very long time.

IMO the reason why Square has lost their way is primarily due to them trying desperately to make JRPGs work in an era where gamers have less and less of a willing suspension of disbelief. These days, it's expected for tipple A titles to be rooted in reality and I feel like ever since Advent Children Square feels like the FF series need to be these somber, emotional epics. But here's the contradictory part, Final Fantasy has never been a series of somber, emotional epics. They often had very goofy and outright strange moments in them that people who are actually fans of the series love. But it seems that in devoting to this image that they've given FF they've felt like they've had to depart from just having fun with making these games. It also doesn't help that they've tried to distance themselves from the things that would seem "silly" or "primitive" today. Things like true turn-based combat or world maps where your character is bigger than cities are a thing of the past because they don't feel "realistic."

Honestly, after ARR is released I really hope Square just gives FF a break until next gen and focuses on improving on their console games. In the handheld department they're fine and I'm sure they'll do well with the 3DS and Vita. I think if Square wants to become the leader in Japanese development then they should take a step back and really take a look at what made people love JRPGs so much in the first place and why WRPGs have surpassed them in popularity. They need to ask themselves, "What is it that Bethesda and Bioware are doing that make their games best sellers while JRPGs have become niche and only popular on handhelds?"

One thing I'd love to see from Square is some major attention on their franchises outside of FF. I wouldn't mind seeing them give the spotlight to a big-budget console sequel to a long-ignored franchise such as Chrono Trigger or the ill-fated Manna series.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. It's late over here and that video triggered some thoughts. Anyway, thanks for posting that vid Minato.

 

[Rutger]

On world maps, I feel DQ VIII did it amazingly by having the towns as large as they should be. It would be great to have more like that.

Bravely Default looks to be a step in the right direction, at least as far as trying to give fans of the old FFs what they want, we just need more than a rumor of it's localization now. The 3DS is also a great home for JRPGs, the second screen is so nice to have for this genre.

I like how that video mentions that Versus XIII has more interest than any currently announced Square project, kind of sad too. That game is going to be so built up that when/if it comes out it probably will not live up to most people's expectations, even if it turns out to be a really amazing game.

The game I am currently looking forward to the most is Shin Megami Tensei IV. As far as I'm concerned Atlus is at the top when it comes to developing JRPGs, Square has a lot of work to do if it wants to take that spot. I'm not really sure what Square could do, I feel like anything that isn't named FF probably will not do as well as Square wants(which is probably more a problem with Square's expectations than how well something actually sells) so as much as I'd like to see new or older IPs, I think Square may need that new FF game that almost everyone loves before their name has any weight again for their other projects.

I don't know how I feel about Square looking towards WRPGs for inspiration, at the very least too much influence sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Minato]

Wall of text, don't take what I say too seriously either if no one agrees with it.

Honestly, I liked XIII. Yes, it had issues such as the battle system feeling extremely slow, the paradigm system feeling underutilized and the plot feeling extremely rushed. But despite that I liked some of the ideas it's game play presented, I like a majority of the main characters and the story had a very interesting take on gods that I haven't seen in a very long time.

I've been replaying XIII again. Sadly, it's just not for me. I still dislike it and moved on to another FF to replay (VIII), but I'll finish it up though. The thing I liked most of XIII was the concept. The characters, script, and the whole Orphan nonsense were annoying to deal with. It doesn't help that the majority of the stuff is in datalogs. I swear when I read up on XIII on the web or in forums, I don't even understand half of the things they go on about.

I feel like ever since Advent Children Square feels like the FF series need to be these somber, emotional epics.

For me, I feel like that direction started with Spirits Within.

I think if Square wants to become the leader in Japanese development then they should take a step back and really take a look at what made people love JRPGs so much in the first place and why WRPGs have surpassed them in popularity. They need to ask themselves, "What is it that Bethesda and Bioware are doing that make their games best sellers while JRPGs have become niche and only popular on handhelds?"

Agree with the first part. They need to embrace what made Japanese games good. Looking at the West in general is a big iffy for me. That's actually what made XIII the way it is. Square has said that XIII took influence from CoD and FPS games. It's the reason why they say they chose a linear design for the game. But you did say WRPGs, which is different. I'm not too familiar with them, so I don't know what they should take from them.

I'm opposed from taking too many ideas from the West in general though. FF doesn't have to be a title that appeals to every gamer in the US. The series already has a fanbase built over 25 years. No need to reinvent the wheel and sacrifice part of its fanbase to grab however many new ones. The current successful JRPGs do just fine by tweaking things instead of doing a 90 to 180 degree turn.

One thing I'd love to see from Square is some major attention on their franchises outside of FF. I wouldn't mind seeing them give the spotlight to a big-budget console sequel to a long-ignored franchise such as Chrono Trigger or the ill-fated Manna series.

Too bad the Mana series, Musashi series, and Saga series were all given chances last gen but failed. Again, too much experimentation by Square.
If a new Chrono game ever gets announced, it better have Kato and Mitsuda on board the very least.

On world maps, I feel DQ VIII did it amazingly by having the towns as large as they should be. It would be great to have more like that.

I loved the world map. The only downside was the amount of random battles. It hindered the experience a tiny bit since I wanted to explore.

I like how that video mentions that Versus XIII has more interest than any currently announced Square project, kind of sad too. That game is going to be so built up that when/if it comes out it probably will not live up to most people's expectations, even if it turns out to be a really amazing game.

My expectations are "anything better than XIII", so there's a good chance, I'll be in the clear.

The game I am currently looking forward to the most is Shin Megami Tensei IV. As far as I'm concerned Atlus is at the top when it comes to developing JRPGs, Square has a lot of work to do if it wants to take that spot. I'm not really sure what Square could do, I feel like anything that isn't named FF probably will not do as well as Square wants(which is probably more a problem with Square's expectations than how well something actually sells) so as much as I'd like to see new or older IPs, I think Square may need that new FF game that almost everyone loves before their name has any weight again for their other projects.

I'm really looking forward to SMTIV and have it preordered. Seeing videos and the staff that's been working on it, pleases me. Atlus is my favorite JRPG developer right now. My only worries is if they get too greedy (P4A BDs, P4U, and SMTIV) or if they lose more talented staff. They're still not perfect though, they need to get a console game out the door since all they've done is Catherine. As far as I'm concerned, P5 is in a similar state as Versus for me with its info, developing time, and expectations. Luckily P3 and P4 were only revealed months before their release, so P5 could be the same.

Square in general confuses me with their IPs. I don't see how they considered games like Tomb Raider to be failures.

 

[Rutger]

On world maps again, as far as not having one I felt FFXII did an amazing job with its world and they made it feel massive without any need for a world map. I'm fairly indifferent towards world map though, I find them more often than not to be a kind of boring walk, and can be hard to get into without the scale DQ VIII had.

Yeah, I wouldn't call Atlus perfect, but they have been the most consistent with high quality JRPGs imo, and outside of P2:EP they have also be fairly good with localizing their games.

I've honestly lost interest in console JRPGs, while Catherine looked great and I'd love to see Atlus do something more with that, I'm in no rush. I love the convenience of the touch screen on the DS/3DS. P5 will happen and will most likely be on consoles, but for right now I'm happy with the all the non-Persona things out there right now, a break from Persona is a good thing imo.

My expectations are a little up for Versus XIII, if only because what I've seen so far kind of reminds me a little of the Gungrave anime, story-wise. I know there's a good chance that will not happen though and I'm trying to keep expectations reasonable, all I want is something more enjoyable than XIII.

 

[finalark]

I've been replaying XIII again. Sadly, it's just not for me. I still dislike it and moved on to another FF to replay (VIII), but I'll finish it up though. The thing I liked most of XIII was the concept. The characters, script, and the whole Orphan nonsense were annoying to deal with. It doesn't help that the majority of the stuff is in datalogs. I swear when I read up on XIII on the web or in forums, I don't even understand half of the things they go on about.

I actually started replaying VIII recently and it is miles above XIII. I do understand why you wouldn't like the game, and one of the game's major issues is that it falls into the fantasy literature trap of having too many proper nouns. If you have too many made up words and proper nouns in a fantasy story they all just start to run together for the audience and they stop caring about what they mean very quickly.

Agree with the first part. They need to embrace what made Japanese games good. Looking at the West in general is a big iffy for me. That's actually what made XIII the way it is. Square has said that XIII took influence from CoD and FPS games. It's the reason why they say they chose a linear design for the game. But you did say WRPGs, which is different. I'm not too familiar with them, so I don't know what they should take from them.

Well that's the issue. They took a look at a completely different genre than what they're used to working with (ironically FPS' used to be an extremely exploration based genre before CoD ****ed it up). I think the thing people like about WRPG (well, the things I like about them) is that they make you feel much more involved in the story. In most of them the PC is a blank slate who you make the choices for, making you feel like you have a say in what events unfold. They also allow you to tackle the game in any way you see fit. I'm not saying that FF should be an open ended sandbox like Elder Scrolls or Fallout. Rather, I would like to see Square take inspiration from games like Mass Effect. In ME1, for example, after about three or four hours of game play you're given your own ship, a list of objects and then are let loose. You can choose to visit any planet in any order, you can do nearly any side quest whenever you feel like it, you can choose how you play the game.

I think that would make JRPGs more popular again. With WRPGs going from niche PC-gamer only titles to widespread popularity people just aren't content with a linear game following an extremely pre-set story.

That's just my take on it.

I'm opposed from taking too many ideas from the West in general though. FF doesn't have to be a title that appeals to every gamer in the US. The series already has a fanbase built over 25 years. No need to reinvent the wheel and sacrifice part of its fanbase to grab however many new ones. The current successful JRPGs do just fine by tweaking things instead of doing a 90 to 180 degree turn.

That is true. Alternatively, they could just go back to the drawing board and figure out what made people love FF in the first place.

Too bad the Mana series, Musashi series, and Saga series were all given chances last gen but failed. Again, too much experimentation by Square.

If a new Chrono game ever gets announced, it better have Kato and Mitsuda on board the very least.

Square drove the poor Manna series into the ground. It's a shame, because Sword of Manna is one of my favorite GBA games.

I just hope that if Square ever makes Chrono Break that they just don't **** it up.

I don't see how they considered games like Tomb Raider to be failures.

Wait.

What?

 

[Minato]

In ME1, for example, after about three or four hours of game play you're given your own ship, a list of objects and then are let loose. You can choose to visit any planet in any order, you can do nearly any side quest whenever you feel like it, you can choose how you play the game.

That's actually how I've always wanted Star Ocean to be. Would've been pretty fun that way.

Wait.

What?

They weren't happy with the sales they got with it. It sold like 3.5 million but they wanted more (5 or 6 iirc).
The sales forecast they keep projecting are much higher than they should be for all their games. They wanted Hitman to be 4 or 5 million.

Edit: Failure was too harsh of a word. But they said they were pretty disappointed at the sales for it and other games.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So, between Monster Hunter and other games I haven't been checking up on FFXIV. Excited to carry my 20,000,000 gil over and all my levels...err 2,000,000 gil, yeah.

^^ Really can't wait for the game to come out.

 

[finalark]

Letter from the producer part VI was posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jjoh3VEPyLU

Some highlights:

- Magitek Armor will be customizable
- Players can build and sell houses
- The Arcanist and Summoner won't be ready until launch
- A class using great swords (probably Dark Knight or Samurai) is in consideration for the future
- Concept art for new armor and weapons for The Crystal Tower and Great Labyrinth
- Previously existing end game bosses will be given new loot
- Some 1.0 dungeons will be reworked into large, open areas
- Some closed areas from 1.0 will be opened
- Some regions will have specific weather
- There will be 16-18 dungeons available at launch
- Gear with sockets in ARR can be socketed with Materia and Materia crafting will be easier than it was in 1.0
- Your chocobo's level will sync with yours, and there will be ways to enhance your chocobo (I guess they can be used in combat)
- There will be a collector's edition of the game
- Randomized dungeons are in consideration for the future
- Deities will just be for "flavor"
- There will be no in-game wiki but there will be one on the Lodestone and there will be an app for it
- Phase 3 beta content will include larger FATES, Free Companies, more dungeons and more areas
- There will be three levels of limit breaks. The bigger the party, the better the limit break.

EDIT: Also, new screen shots for classes and jobs were uploaded to the official FFXIV website.

 

[Jon Farron]

Can't wait for Limit Breaks! Oooh randomized dungeons!? Omg WIN.

 

[Jon Farron]

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Omg they're adding a GREAT feature that I'm going to LOVE in phase 3! I wish I could tell y'all ;-;

 

[finalark]

I wish I was in the beta.

I am really, really excited for phase 4. Since that will be open beta then that means that I won't have to wait for the email that's never gonna come from Square.

 

[Jon Farron]

This weekend ( Apr 26, 27 and 28) is going to be the last weekend of phase 2. Phase 3 dates will be announced after Phase 2 is concluded. Don't give up hope finalark! You never know :3

 

[finalark]

I'm actually really excited for ARR, I've been following the development of the game ever since it was announced as FFXIV 2.0 and it looks fantastic so far.

I just hope it delivers what I want from the game.

 

[Jon Farron]

Well, what do you want? o:

 

[finalark]

Well, what do you want? o:

I would be interested in a more evolved version of XI, where the datedness of the game is cleaned up while retaining the potentially challenging quests, interesting job system and focus on group content.

 

[Jon Farron]

Challenging quests? Hmmm not so much, but I haven't gotten past level 14. Job system is basic so far, but is supposed to be better in Phase 3. Group content? there's PLENTY of that so far, lol.

 

[finalark]

When I say "potentially" challenging I mean having quests that are actually on the difficult side. In XI they were only challenging because they often gave you ambiguous instructions that left you either asking everyone you ran into if they knew how to do it or clicking on stuff until something happened. I mean, yeah some of these quests were actually fairly challenging once you figured them out but more often than not it was the outdated "figure it out yourself" mentality.

I don't know, I guess it would be nice to see an MMORPG with quests that actually test to see how well you know how to play your class.

But I am happy to know the game has plenty of group content. In post-Cataclysm WoW you could get from 1-85 (now 90) without doing so much as joining a group meaning that at cap you had people who had no idea how the hell their class worked or even knew basic group edict.

 

[finalark]

Ba-bump.

There was a neat update to the ARR website today. The update lists some monsters in the game and what their primal is. Interestingly, only Ifrit, Garuda and Titan have models and Ramuh and Leviathan are represented by concept art. I'm pretty sure this means Ifrit, Garuda and Titan will be in the game possibly at launch while we'll have to wait for a patch to include Ramuh and Leviathan.

 

[Jon Farron]

What are the classes that you know of to be in the game? I wanna talk about one in particular but not sure if it was announced to the public or not.

 

[finalark]

What are the classes that you know of to be in the game? I wanna talk about one in particular but not sure if it was announced to the public or not.

Classes we know about:

- Conjurer
- Thaumaturge
- Arcanist
- Gladiator
- Pugilist
- Marauder
- Lancer
- Archer

Jobs we know about:

- Paladin
- Monk
- Warrior
- Dragoon
- Bard
- White Mage
- Black Mage
- Summoner

 

[Jon Farron]

Oh ok.


I was gonna talk about Arcanist... it sounds like it's gonna be fun :O

It won't be ready until launch though ;-;

 

[finalark]

Oh ok.


I was gonna talk about Arcanist... it sounds like it's gonna be fun :O

It won't be ready until launch though ;-;

I'm honestly stuck between maining a black mage or a summoner. Thankfully because of the way FFXIV works I can do both.

EDIT: I actually hope the way summoner works in XIV is the way it worked in XI. In XI you had to get some of your bros together to help you fight eidolons in order to get them.

 

[Jon Farron]

I'm pretty positive you will still have to fight the Eidolons to obtain them. I believe we will still get Elementals as well, like they even look the same.

However, I think they're going to make the class be better and more supportive in many ways vs the Summoner in XI, focusing on DoT and debuffs.

I'm gonna be a White Mage/Summoner <3

 

[Saki-]

iirc there were missions that had you fight Garuda and Ifrit already in 1.0+.

I think I'll do the most focus on Monk and Dragoon while getting all of my disciple of hand maxed

 

[Jon Farron]

Welp, looks like Phase 3 won't be until early June... D:

 

[finalark]

That means we probably won't see an actually release of the game until fall.

 

[Saki-]

"While it's still hot out" is a pretty vague idea. So August at the latest I guess. Been keeping up with a lot on the main forums and it just keeps getting more exciting.

 

[finalark]

I'm planning on being moved into an apartment with a friend by that time. I just hope my internet there can support an MMORPG.

 

[Jon Farron]

I'm kinda glad they're taking their time though, instead of rushing it out.

 

[finalark]

FFXIV posted on Facebook that the game is confirmed for a Summer release.

So with Phase 3 being in June, I assume that July will be phase 4 and that the game will be released in August. Shame, I was hoping to have something to play over the summer while I save up for an apartment.