General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[Minato]

I liked FFXII's gambit system. I found it really fun to grind considering how easy it is with it. At the same time though, I feel that the battle system leaves you less involved compared to XIII's at times, especially if you were overleveled. In boss battles, the only time when you needed to press something was if something went really wrong or you needed to swap party members.

XIII's boss battles kept you on your toes the whole time. I liked FFXII's battles as a whole, but XIII's more for bosses.

 

[finalark]

My feelings exactly. That said, I think the Final Fantasy series took a dive after Hironobu Sakaguchi left Square. What they need to do is stop using the same cliché character archetypes and story that Japanese audiences are so used to and try something new that could appeal to the world.

Well, they certainly tried that with XII, as Rutger pointed out.

Regardless, the thing is that Final Fantasy just isn't as popular as it was in the PS1 era when VII was everyone and their dog's first RPG. And since western devs rule over the gaming world at the moment an entire generation's first RPG won't be from Japan, it will be from Europe or the US.

Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a strong tradition of rejecting foreign games/anything. So lets be honest here, I doubt we'll see the FF series try to appeal to anyone outside of the standard Japanese gamer. Although admittedly the tech demo that they showed for their new engine had a very Modern Warfare feel to it IMO. So maybe I'm just talking out my ***.

Alternately, maybe the issue is that we all grew up so the newer FFs just don't have that charm they had when we were younger and more open to new things. Just a thought.

 

[Rutger]

I wouldn't say that Japan rejects foreign games, just that they really don't want to change up what has been done for so long. We can easily see this with Dragon Quest, the most popular JRPG in Japan and it has been mostly the same formula all this time, well until X and kind of IX . (I have only played a few DQ games, so if I missed something major feel free to point out how much of an idiot I am.)

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing imo, I don't want an established franchise to become unrecognizable, if they want to really change it up then they should make a spin off or a brand new IP for it. :/

I do think that FF could become more western friendly without losing what it is(it helps that individual FF games change up their formula more than the average JRPG series) and that FFXII was a step in the right direction if they wanted to do that.

Square Enix does seem like they want to expand their audience now that they are the publisher for Deus Ex as well as the new Tomb Raider and new Hitman, but I honestly have no clue how much of an influence the acquisition of Eidos Interactive might have on SE, the business side of things is beyond me.

Alternately, maybe the issue is that we all grew up so the newer FFs just don't have that charm they had when we were younger and more open to new things. Just a thought.

FF X was the first FF game I owned, and I'm not too fond of it. Chrono Trigger, FF IV(I played DS), and FF IX are my favorite Square games. Nostalgia might not have much influence for me with FF, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case for many people.

 

[Minato]

Japan not utilizing foreign ideas isn't the problem. They're just not making as many good games anymore, simple as that.
Any recent JRPGs success wasn't because of incorporating outside ideas, they were good because of other things.

When I think about what makes a JRPG good, I usually think of story, characters, and the battle system.
XII and XIII lacked at least one (or more depending on your preferences).

I found the story and the majority of the characters bad in both FFs. Battle system was a hit or miss for some.
I can't say that nostalgia doesn't play a role on the older games I like, but I don't use in a way to dislike the newer games.

 

[Rutger]

story, characters, and the battle system.

Which is why Persona 4 is one of my favorite games ever made, it did everything right imo.

The soundtrack is very important to me as well, but that's for all games really.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Gah...you're making me want to try the Persona RPGs now. I remember I picked up Persona 1 (disc only) for like $10 at a pawn shop once, but I sold it on GameTZ so I could get some money to buy...uh...I forget what.

 

[Rutger]

Persona 1 is most likely not worth it.

Persona 3 FES is on PSN.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Persona 1 is most likely not worth it.

Persona 3 FES is on PSN.

Oh, are Persona 1 and 2 not that good then?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

2 is alright, but 1 sucked.

 

[Rutger]

Some people like the two Persona 2 games more than P3 & P4.

I'm playing the first game's PSP remake and the story is cool, but the battle system is uninteresting imo and the lack of a true demon fusion system is disappointing. It is in no way bad, but I like P3 & P4 more.

Edit: I mean the first Persona 2.

 

[finalark]

When I think about what makes a JRPG good, I usually think of story, characters, and the battle system.
XII and XIII lacked at least one (or more depending on your preferences).

That used to be the case for me when I was younger. Eventually I came to realize that most RPGs recycle the same characters and plot twists leading to most stories being pretty lackluster.

For me these days its all about character customization, dungeons and the battle system.

I found the story and the majority of the characters bad in both FFs.

In hindsight, I have to agree with you. And to be totally honest, the above applies to most RPGs I've played. It doesn't matter if they're from the east or west. Eastern RPGs have their set in stone character archetypes (generally borrowed from anime) while western RPGs have their set in stone character archetypes (generally borrowed from Tolkien).

That's why these days RPGs are less "OMG STORY" for me and more "OMG STATS."

As for Persona, the only Personas I played were 3 and 4. I borrowed both from my friend as well as her PS2, so my time with them was limited thus I never fished either.

I personally think think that P3 was really lacking while P4 is one of the best RPGs of last gen.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I'm back on FFXIV controlling my addiction pretty well. Good Game, they've fixed so much stuff...


On ridill, RyuShimazu

 

[finalark]

I'm back on FFXIV controlling my addiction pretty well. Good Game, they've fixed so much stuff...


On ridill, RyuShimazu

I'm actually going to start playing once 2.0 comes out. I'm pretty excited for it, actually.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I might play Final Fantasy XIV when it comes to the PS3, that way, I can trophy-hunt it, get the platinum, and call it a day.

By the way, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy is the most adorable thing on the 3DS right now. I am already enjoying it so much. It already has paid DLC available too (of which I bought all of them). Is it the best 3DS title? Probably not, but given its hybrid of two genres (RPG and Rhythm), I'd say it's certainly the most unique so far.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

SE is talking about making FF 13-3

Of all the FF universes, why the FF 13 universe?

 

[finalark]

SE is talking about making FF 13-3

Of all the FF universes, why the FF 13 universe?

Regardless of what your thoughts are on the actual game play, you have to admit that XIII had a pretty clever universe.

On the offhand, I'm pretty sure its because they want this project to be THE definitive modern Final Fantasy experience. Which is strange since XIII generally wasn't particularly well received, Type 0 came out and nobody cared and Versus XIII is in development hell.

IMO they should drop the Nova Chrystal project and focus on fixing up XIV and remaking the PS1 games.

Please remake the PS1 games.

 

[Deleted member]

best square games: chrono trigger, xenogears, ff tactics

great: super mario rpg, live a live

good: parasite eve, ff7-9

god awful: ff tactics advance

havent played the rest, i heard ff11 in its prime was the hardest/ best mmorpg ever made

 

[Jem.]

Nothing will top WoW in it's prime for the MMORPG genre. I'm talking Vanilla WoW/BC.

 

[Lythium]

I dunno, guys. Regardless of a lot of things about XIII, I really do want XIII-3. And I'm happy that they're making it and such.

And there's a legit chance that they're probably going to hold off on remakes, at least graphical remakes, until they really need it. Look at it this way, I'm sure that as a company, Square is getting by. A graphical remake of FFVII would basically print money for them. So, they're probably going to keep that as a back-burner project until they desperately need a boost in sales.

It's just how businesses work.

 

[Rutger]

XIII-3. :/

Okay, if that's what SE wants to do.

Dragon Quest X is also an MMO, at least my wallet is very happy with their decisions.

 

[Lythium]

Despite its flaws, I liked XIII. And I really enjoyed XIII-2, and I think it's a legitimately good game.

So, I'm happy that they're making XIII-3, though I know a lot of people won't be.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Nothing will top WoW in it's prime for the MMORPG genre. I'm talking Vanilla WoW/BC.

Vanilla was a tedious, glitch-infested mess during launch and for a looooooooooooooooooong time afterwards. Even when most of the game-breaking bugs were ironed out, PvE content was still a chore, as quest design was simply ***. If you're looking at it through rose-tinted glasses, you might have a case. BC was better in terms of content (a lot of people agree that it had the best raids and dungeons), and it also helps that it laid out the groundwork for a lot of the content you see today.

Just throwing that out there.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Minato]

Dragon Quest X is also an MMO, at least my wallet is very happy with their decisions.

I remember being disappointed at DQX being an MMO when I first heard it. I'm actually pretty eager to try it out now.
Just waiting on the Wii U version to be shown first (as well as a localization announcement).

I don't know if I'll try out FFXIV on PS3. If anything, I'll wait to hear how it is after it's out for awhile.
XIII-3 I've already mentioned a few weeks ago. It's just no one remembered until another article came lol. I haven't even bought XIII-2, so yeah. I have plenty of other games to beat first anyways, so I'm not excited nor annoyed at XIII sequels.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I remember being disappointed at DQX being an MMO when I first heard it. I'm actually pretty eager to try it out now.
Just waiting on the Wii U version to be shown first (as well as a localization announcement).

I don't know if I'll try out FFXIV on PS3. If anything, I'll wait to hear how it is after it's out for awhile.
XIII-3 I've already mentioned a few weeks ago. It's just no one remembered until another article came lol. I haven't even bought XIII-2, so yeah. I have plenty of other games to beat first anyways, so I'm not excited nor annoyed at XIII sequels.

XIV has come a long way. It was garbage, and while the servers still are (till 2.0), the game itself finally has a FF feel too it.

 

[finalark]

god awful: ff tactics advance

What's everyone's issue with this game? I thought it was pretty fun. Although really easy and frankly the story doesn't make sense but still.

Plus I kinda hate PS1 tactics.

i heard ff11 in its prime was the hardest/ best mmorpg ever made

11 was hard in the same was NES RPGs was hard. What information or at least a general idea of what you're supposed to be doing or what anything does in this gmae? **** YOU ***** FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF.

Although if you have an experienced player to teach you how to properly play the game 11 can be very fun.

I dunno, guys. Regardless of a lot of things about XIII, I really do want XIII-3. And I'm happy that they're making it and such.

I personally like XIII. I don't know what everyone complains about it. People say that its because of the linearity but X was linear as **** and nobody complained about that.

And there's a legit chance that they're probably going to hold off on remakes, at least graphical remakes, until they really need it. Look at it this way, I'm sure that as a company, Square is getting by. A graphical remake of FFVII would basically print money for them. So, they're probably going to keep that as a back-burner project until they desperately need a boost in sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. It wouldn't take much to remake the PS1 games IMO. Just redraw and increase the resolution of the pre-rendered backgrounds up to modern standards, make some new models that actually look good, revise the scripts and add in voice acting and BOOM. Done.

Vanilla was a tedious, glitch-infested mess during launch and for a looooooooooooooooooong time afterwards. Even when most of the game-breaking bugs were ironed out, PvE content was still a chore, as quest design was simply ***. If you're looking at it through rose-tinted glasses, you might have a case. BC was better in terms of content (a lot of people agree that it had the best raids and dungeons), and it also helps that it laid out the groundwork for a lot of the content you see today.

Just throwing that out there.

Smooth Criminal

THANK YOU. As someone who played the game from Classic to Cata I can easily say **** vanilla WoW. Sure, its nostalgic but no way would I go back to six months of leveling until you hit cap, quests will ridiculously vague instructions and having to traverse the world on foot until you hit 40.

EDIT: Also, I think that the two factions systems is the worst thing to ever be introduced to an MMO with a PVE focus.

 

[Rutger]

I remember being disappointed at DQX being an MMO when I first heard it. I'm actually pretty eager to try it out now.
Just waiting on the Wii U version to be shown first (as well as a localization announcement).

The whole pay monthly or whatever installments just to play a game has been something I've never agreed with. Yeah, I can understand why the system exist, but I'm going to stop caring once I hear a game uses it.

Add in that I've never really even tried to get into a MMO so I really have no interest in DQX.

I personally like XIII. I don't know what everyone complains about it. People say that its because of the linearity but X was linear as **** and nobody complained about that.

Man, that last sentence, makes it feel like I've made so many pointless posts in this thread.


I don't even care about a XIII-n, if people are enjoying the XIII series then that's cool, keep it going Square, I'll just be over here on my 3DS waiting for Shin Megami Tensei IV instead. :3

 

[Claire Diviner]

Despite its flaws, I liked XIII. And I really enjoyed XIII-2, and I think it's a legitimately good game.

So, I'm happy that they're making XIII-3, though I know a lot of people won't be.

I personally like XIII. I don't know what everyone complains about it. People say that its because of the linearity but X was linear as **** and nobody complained about that.

These. Yes, XIII strays from the norm in its pacing, but if one would at least play it for what it is; an RPG game, people will realize it's actually a good game. As for X being linear, this is also very true, though there were more in the way of exploration than XIII, and had a bit more variety in side quests, while XIII had the C'ieth Stone missions, which were very repetitive.

XIII-2 I loved because it addressed everyone's complaint about XIII (namely, the linearity), and took the good aspects (namely, the battle system), and expanded on it further. Plus, the pacing of the game is also good, and there's hardly a dull moment (though Augusta Tower was a real pain). The DLC helped to further the replay value by a little bit, and the Monster Crystal system was just awesome. My only gripe on this was that the ending left the game in a cliffhanger, and I was hoping for an ending with closure. Pretty obvious there's a XIII-3 in the works, but I still think it would've been better if they ended it on a high note. Hopefully, XIII-3 will be even better or at least just as good as XIII-2.

 

[vZakat]

Hey everyone, I don't really post around here but I wanted to promote my FFT solo chemist run. I'm doing an LP of FFT with only ramza, only using the chemist job. Here's the link if you'd like to watch.

http://youtu.be/lsDCDowRdos

 

[Jem.]

Vanilla was way better than WOTLK and Cata, sorry. 40 man raids for the win. The best WoW times were had in Vanilla and BC. And no MMO until possibly Blizzard's Project Titan will recreate that feeling you got from playing WoW at those times. Anyone who thought SWTOR was seriously a thread to WoW is silly. That game is already down the tank, just like D3 lol

 

[finalark]

Vanilla was way better than WOTLK and Cata, sorry. 40 man raids for the win. The best WoW times were had in Vanilla and BC. And no MMO until possibly Blizzard's Project Titan will recreate that feeling you got from playing WoW at those times. Anyone who thought SWTOR was seriously a thread to WoW is silly. That game is already down the tank, just like D3 lol

Not sure if troll.

Or has rose tinted retinas.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

MMO's being monthly fee's are a dying breed. I am not going to pay for what comes to a waste of my time.

If they want subscribers they are going to have to be Free to Play with micro transactions.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>assuming that 40 man raids weren't a pain in the *** and that organizing them did not take up the lion's share of time for a guild's actual run. Also, assuming that stringent lockout periods and player attunements weren't a waste of time.

(I forgot to mention how horribly inconvenient it was to not have guild banks and rely on wasting character slots to ensure your guild had supplies.)


>assuming that concrete information about the TENTATIVELY NAMED Project Titan is available.

>assuming that SWTOR was brought up in contrast to WoW in a FF thread.

Keep them rosey shades on, Jem. I'll agree to disagree. You wanna continue this little debate then drop me a VM.

FF da bess.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Jem.]

But if no other MMO recreates that emmersed feeling, doesn't that mean Vanilla/BC WAS better? I mean, maybe mechanically, WOTLK/Cata are better asthetically or something, but the quality is nowhere near what BC and Vanilla was! Obviously it had it's problems, but I'd take glitchy vanilla over FF11/Everquest/SWTOR anyday. All those games I listed have significant problems as well.

 

[finalark]

But if no other MMO recreates that emmersed feeling, doesn't that mean Vanilla/BC WAS better? I mean, maybe mechanically, WOTLK/Cata are better asthetically or something, but the quality is nowhere near what BC and Vanilla was! Obviously it had it's problems, but I'd take glitchy vanilla over FF11/Everquest/SWTOR anyday. All those games I listed have significant problems as well.

Two things.

1: You means its hard for a game to replicate the nostalgic feelings you get when you think back to your first MMO? Who would have thought!

2: Lets get back on track. Lets talk about if anyone actually believes that Versus XIII will be released.

 

[Jem.]

Sure Versus 13 will be released. Because Nomura has to work on Kingdom Hearts 3 when it finishes since KH3D is finished. There is rumored only one KH game left before KH3 and it's a side game, so really he'll probably have the other team make that, while him and the main team work on KH3. Something tells me besides Versus, KH3 is the most important thing to Nomura. Or maybe even KH3 is worth more to him, regardless his contributions to the FF franchise throughout.

WoW wasn't my first MMO. So nice assumption. Most people started with Everquest. What MMO is better than Vanilla/BC? Heck, I'd even say WOTLK/Cata is better than any other MMO as well. If you say FF11 or Everquest or SWTOR, el oh effing el.

 

[Deleted member]

the fact that 1% of players reached endgame is why vanilla/ burning crusade was epic

and it was actually tough

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It was also poorly designed. At least where Vanilla's concerned, anyway. BC was a step up, at least.

Can we stop talking about WoW in a FF thread? xD There is a thread for this.

Smooth Criminal

 

[finalark]

Sure Versus 13 will be released. Because Nomura has to work on Kingdom Hearts 3 when it finishes since KH3D is finished. There is rumored only one KH game left before KH3 and it's a side game, so really he'll probably have the other team make that, while him and the main team work on KH3. Something tells me besides Versus, KH3 is the most important thing to Nomura. Or maybe even KH3 is worth more to him, regardless his contributions to the FF franchise throughout.

Nomura doesn't dictate what games are made. As a matter of fact, the only games he's actually headed himself are versus XIII and KH 3D. Most of the time he just does the artwork.

And I really doubt KH3 is in development. Possibly in early alpha but I'm pretty sure we would have heard something about it by know. I don't know, though. Square pretty much lost me on that franchise when they decided that they'd just throw out a million spin offs rather than a proper third installment.

EDIT: And yes, we should stop talking about WoW. There's a lot of things I could say against vanilla but this is the FF thread so lets disagree on FF related things.

 

[Jem.]

No, Nomura has already confirmed 1000x that once FF13 Versus is finished KH3 is his main priority. He has only outlined ideas in his head. He actually changed the ending of KH3D because his team thought his original one wasnt good enough. That takes some pride

And I'm pretty sure Nomura has a big role. I know in a couple of the games he has written all the dialogue/story. He doesn't just do artwork, he creates the story because KH is HIS franchise. The series doesn't move on without him. The team that made BBS is the team who made KH3D, and then the main team is back for KH3 when Versus finishes

I'm a big KH nerd so I've followed the whole franchise and read his interviews lol

 

[finalark]

Writing a game story =/= to making decisions for what games the company will release next. The only reason why Square allows him to do whatever he wants with the KH games is because those games are some of Square's biggest money makers.

If Nomura was to make a KH game that bombed, you can bet that the people who actually make the important business decisions at Square would quickly yank on his chain and say no more KH games. For instance, lets say that KH3 didn't do as well as expected and not long after another director released a game that ends up being the next big hit and rakes in dollar upon dollar for Square. In that case, you could say good bye to KH. Case and point, Chrono Cross and the fact that Chrono Break suspiciously never appeared beyond a trademark once KH became Square's bread winner.