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Gay, ****, Homo and similar words...

Xyzz

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I've always been curious about something: Does anybody actually know somebody who's personally offended by words not intended to hurt them? Say, a homosexual person who really minds people calling stuff "gay"?
In my experience they tend to throw out those words just as much as everybody else, usually more because it's especially funny coming from them :D
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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Whatever happened to just striving to be a good person?

You have a choice:
a) Use a word to describe something which could potentially be offensive to a certain group
b) Use a word to describe something which isn't potentially offensive while, otherwise, getting the same point across

What reason do you have not to go with b? Regardless of your personal opinions, I feel like opting to never offend anyone should take precedence.
Anything is potentially offensive.
It is unfair and discriminating to censor a word that may be targeted towards homosexuals, such as ***, and not to the same regarding a word that may be targeted towards the mentally ill, such as insane (an old, umbrella term diagnosis which covered both psychosis, mania, depression and many other conditions)

Now I command you to feel bad over every time you've used the word insane.

Or, people can get better vagina hygiene and better panties that are better at keeping sand out of the vajeje.
I've always been curious about something: Does anybody actually know somebody who's personally offended by words not intended to hurt them? Say, a homosexual person who really minds people calling stuff "gay"?
In my experience they tend to throw out those words just as much as everybody else, usually more because it's especially funny coming from them :D
Yes. Thank you. THIS is reality.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Or, people can get better vagina hygiene and better panties that are better at keeping sand out of the vajeje.Yes. Thank you. THIS is reality.

My last goal for this game and community is to meet you in person. I am sad, I think you and I would have been really good friends if we lived near each other. I just hard agree with every post you make. Every last one of them.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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My last goal for this game and community is to meet you in person. I am sad, I think you and I would have been really good friends if we lived near each other. I just hard agree with every post you make. Every last one of them.
hey i just add stuff like that to the end for the funnies

im actually making a real point here
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
no i totally get it.

the sad part is i feel like i can tell where people are from based solely on their ideals. there might be some cognitive bias but it really feels like americans have no sense of moderation. i don't want my observations to come off as illogical but it's equally hard to deny first-hand observations and i've really come to dislike american culture for that facet along with many others. it's another deviation on this topic, but it's just my frame of reference concerning the topic at hand. there's just no room for application or judgment, but the real world just doesn't work that way. it doesn't work that way for insults, it doesn't work that way for abuse, and i find the black-and-white thinking patterns of this country to be toxic to its population when we're actually faced with case studies where moderation and mutual understanding are essential and it just doesn't happen. it's childish to have stances like our school system's "zero tolerance policy" or unrestrained work ethic / alcohol consumption / food consumption or seeing all gay people as the newly ripened fruit archetype. it's just made me bitter about our society and i'm totally envious that you can experience it at a safe distance and call us "flopmericans" knowing that you can choose not to deal with this **** any day you don't feel like it. i completely understand where you're coming from.
 

TerryJ

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The way I think about it is by using gay, ******, ******(ed) in a different sense that they don't mean what most think they mean. For example, ****** is a derogatory term towards homosexuals but instead of using it for that meaning I will instead give it the meaning silly, stupid or the like. If people were to take this stance on words in general, they wouldn't hurt anyone because not only are they just words, but the intention behind the word isn't being used insultingly.

I call my brothers and friends ******s all the time, and we all know that we aren't calling each others homosexuals (one of them is gay btw) but we take it as I love you instead. Sometimes we'll yell ****** across the house and wait for someone else to yell it back.

Simply put, words only have the meaning that you give them, don't want to insult somebody? Don't be a ****** about it and be nice.
 

Isatis

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When my friends joke about mental illness without malicious intent I don't mind, I find it funny myself, and I do it myself constantly. However if it intentionally at my expense and/or to reinforce false stereotypes (something which I do not blame on freedom of speech, but lack of knowledge), i have no tolerance for it. To me it is very easy to tell what the intent is, based on tone, choice of words, body language/eye contact, etc etc.
Exactly this.

I don't care if people say "that's gay" or not. I know several gay friends, one of which posted earlier in the thread, and each one of them do not care. I have a boyfriend and neither of us care for it. Even at a recent gaming meet I went to, people were joking around and yelling "GAAAY!", both gay and not. (Cards against Humanity is a fun game, by the way, if that fills in any context.) All of these are without malicious intent.

If you are using slurs or terms with negative connotations (e.g. ****** or ******), that's the main problem right there.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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no i totally get it.

the sad part is i feel like i can tell where people are from based solely on their ideals. there might be some cognitive bias but it really feels like americans have no sense of moderation. i don't want my observations to come off as illogical but it's equally hard to deny first-hand observations and i've really come to dislike american culture for that facet along with many others. it's another deviation on this topic, but it's just my frame of reference concerning the topic at hand. there's just no room for application or judgment, but the real world just doesn't work that way. it doesn't work that way for insults, it doesn't work that way for abuse, and i find the black-and-white thinking patterns of this country to be toxic to its population when we're actually faced with case studies where moderation and mutual understanding are essential and it just doesn't happen. it's childish to have stances like our school system's "zero tolerance policy" or unrestrained work ethic / alcohol consumption / food consumption or seeing all gay people as the newly ripened fruit archetype. it's just made me bitter about our society and i'm totally envious that you can experience it at a safe distance and call us "flopmericans" knowing that you can choose not to deal with this **** any day you don't feel like it. i completely understand where you're coming from.
Sweden, on the other hand, is overtly moderate. We're so PC people get offended by candy logos that look to much like chinese people.
You're not alowed to voice the opinion that Sweden takes in so many foreigners may be damaging to our society and economy without being stamped as a racist. The controversy of criticizing it is insane, and so is the phobia of being stamped a racist. (I, by the way, do not necessarily agree that we take in to many foreigners, theres data indicating both that its damaging to us and benefitial, and I am not well-read enough on the subject to have a relevant opinion on the subject)

If you're religious in Sweden, you will have to defend that viewpoint ferociously if mentioned in many social situations, depending on how PC/non-PC they are outwardly. But the consensus in Sweden (in my age group) is that religion is always dumb, regardless of interpretation, and/or the healthy interpretations are ignored.

I know it Scandinavia may look amazing from the perspective of a flopmerican, but we've swung to the other extreme. I certainly prefer this to being surrounded by homophobes and people who take Fox News seriously, but sometimes I hate the culture of flippitysweden.

Fun Fact: Fox News is a consistent source of entertaining youtube clips for swedes. I have a friend that legitimately thought it was a joke channel up until recently (he kind of lives under a rock though, but it's a perfectly logical assumption)


I guess we're both super cool non-conformist punk rocker badasses.
 

stabbedbyanipple

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Gay/****/homo are 2 mainstream anyway. It's all about being as offensive as possible while still being creative with how you do it.

Edit: And I swear this thread comes up often enough to warrant a stickied discussion on it lol
 

I R MarF

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Anything is potentially offensive.
It is unfair and discriminating to censor a word that may be targeted towards homosexuals, such as ***, and not to the same regarding a word that may be targeted towards the mentally ill, such as insane (an old, umbrella term diagnosis which covered both psychosis, mania, depression and many other conditions)

Now I command you to feel bad over every time you've used the word insane.

Or, people can get better vagina hygiene and better panties that are better at keeping sand out of the vajeje.
I am not so sure if you can compare the usage of adjectives such as crazy or insane with the usage of the adjective gay. This has nothing to do with the reputation or situation of either group, this is entirely pertaining to the usage of the respective words.

If someone's playstyle is described as crazy, typically, this word is used correctly in terms of its denotation. However, if something is called gay, the usage is creating an association between the word lame or stupid with the actual denotation of the word. This is where the offensive nature comes in because this association is entirely negative.

Now I am aware your major point is that people should be able to understand the connotation of words used, thus, they shouldn't care unless the word is intentionally used in an offensive way. I don't want to detract from this point because I think its a good one... but with that said, I think the usage of gay and the usage of crazy/insane cannot be so easily compared.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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The word "insane" actually does refer to the mentally ill by it's original definition.
Gay has not yet strayed as far from the original meaning, so I see your point.

But my main point still stands as strong as ever: If you get offended by a word when the meaning of it in that context is not to offend a group, please get that sand out of your vagina. Maybe you have a huge bush and big flappy lips, but if you put in the effort in you can do it!
 

ph00tbag

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I don't care if people say "that's gay" or not. I know several gay friends, one of which posted earlier in the thread, and each one of them do not care. I have a boyfriend and neither of us care for it. Even at a recent gaming meet I went to, people were joking around and yelling "GAAAY!", both gay and not. (Cards against Humanity is a fun game, by the way, if that fills in any context.) All of these are without malicious intent.
I've been saying since the beginning of the thread that use of the words in this context is really just immature, but not inherently problematic. And there's not even really anything wrong with immaturity. I mean, I watch a tv show for six-year-old girls and collect transformers which I actually play with on occasion. I get where the drive to act immature comes from. That said, my other point still stands, that many people who use these words when they think they won't offend anyone usually don't actually care why they offend in the first place, and get really defensive, and often wind up saying things that are unequivocally marginalizing, when you try to explain that. As evidence, I submit this whole thread.

The word "insane" actually does refer to the mentally ill by it's original definition.
Gay has not yet strayed as far from the original meaning, so I see your point.
The other aspect to his point is that "insane" can also be used to edify, when used in reference to a playstyle, which kind of makes it harder to be offended. Although I can certainly see how it still generates misconceptions about what it means to be mentally ill.
 

Pawls to the Wall

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If somebody finds these things offensive, it's themselves that need to change, not everyone else. It's a big problem with the world when every person has all these personal demands of everyone else just because of their feelings. You can either be out in the world, or stay in your house with the TV off and be unoffended.

Even so, I avoid using the words around people I expect to be offended, mostly because I don't want to deal with their "feelings".
 

killazys

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Boy, I'm going to get some flak for this one. For the record, I'm straight.

Arguments supporting the usage of "****," "gay," etc:
A) "Using words such as 'lame,' '********,' and 'insane' are okay, so 'gay' should be okay too."
B) "The law says it's okay, and the law says it's my First Amendment right to say what I want to say."
C) "Words only mean what you mean by them when you say them, in context."
D) "People are being too sensitive."
E) "I know people who are okay with it, so it's okay."

Let's go through each of these arguments.
A) Some people have mentioned this before, but I think it's important to bring this up again. Specifically for gay rights in the American context, which I will assume for the rest of this post (because this is where most of the ridiculous behavior occurs), using "lame" or other words I listed is categorically different. The reason being, those who are lame have an obvious physical impairment (here comes the flak). Those who are ******** have a scientifically provable mental impairment. And those who are depressed, while not having any obvious impairment, are still impaired in their day-to-day functionality as a result of depression. Yet all of these groups have the same rights that straight people do in the United States. Just because you're in a wheelchair doesn't prevent you from getting all of the legal rights you can get from marriage. Just because you suffer from depression doesn't mean people are going to systematically bias against you because you're depressed. If anything those who are lame, ********, or depressed are aided in society, as it should be. No one discriminates against people who use walking sticks.
Unfortunately, the same CANNOT be said for gay people. First of all, gay people, unless also lame or mentally ill, have no physical or mental impairments. In most states, it is still illegal to get married if you're gay. Remember folks, as a citizen of America I can say without a shred of doubt that America is a Christian country. Separation of church and state is a farce. The legal rights afforded to married couples far exceed the legal rights afforded to those in a civil union. This, by itself, indicates a systemic oppression of gay people by not just a majority group, but the entire political system. This is fundamentally unfair but more importantly that gives a warrant to my, and others, claims that gays are an oppressed minority group. If you're suffering from clinical depression, you are in no way oppressed. Your argument does not apply. From this point, we can conclude that using the word "gay" as a negative term becomes oppressive because society oppresses gay people. This is a two-way street. Using "lame" as a negative, again, cannot be categorized in the same way because there is no systemic bias against gay people.

B) Just because something is a law doesn't make it right. Think about copyright law or patent law for a second, and realize that the Republican Study Committee even published a memorandum calling for the complete overhaul of the copyright system. The reason laws change over time, and the reason the Founding Fathers allowed for amendments to the Constitution, is because they realized that no law is universally, forever just. Your First Amendment rights, while "sacred" to the United States, must also be limited by the Supreme Court's movie theater ruling. Obviously this is not the same as using a racial slur, but remember that no right is absolute or universal, and certainly not because the law says so. Also, cross-referencing the argument I made against A), the laws regarding marriage and civil union indicate a systemic social bias.

C) Cross-reference what I said at the end of A), that "gay" is a negative term because there is a systemic bias. Context is fine and dandy, but words cannot be analyzed in a vacuum. The sole purpose of language was and is to codify a set way of communication to ease knowledge transfer. This means that words must be analyzed in a way that takes into account society as a whole and the meaning that society gives to this word. I would wager that most of us would have trouble supporting an argument that "pot" doesn't mean "marijuana." There is no negative connotation there, obviously, but by that association alone you accept society's influence on what you say. Context is important, again, but here even in context using the word "gay" indicates that you support the notion that gay people are synonymous with something you don't want to deal with. And again, using "lame" is not the same because there is no systemic bias against lame people.

D) Anyone's judgment of anyone else is subjective. You can argue that people are being too sensitive, but is it really worth it to continue to hurt those people just because you think they're not "strong enough?" This argument also doesn't give any tangible impacts or really provide real warrants to back up its claim. Words typically hurt more than physical pain, especially in today's more "civil" society. Which is to say, they have more of an effect than you think they do. And this is, like everything else, also a two-way street: if people are being too sensitive, they also shouldn't be positively influenced to do better by words. Let's think about that for a minute. Finally, the sensitivity issue is again tied to the theme of minority oppression: when a group of people is fighting for basic rights in society, you certainly don't help them out by claiming that you have the "right" to say certain words, or that they're just being too sensitive. By perpetuating this illogical system, you harm the minority group's chances of attaining basic rights. Is that also worth it?

E) These people might be lying. These people might have given up already. These people are definitely a small subset of a large group. And while some women might have been okay with not voting, I don't think any woman would look back today and say, "You know, I really think we shouldn't have been given the right to vote. It really didn't do us any good, and anyway we really belong in the kitchen." As Steve Jobs once said, "You can't connect the dots forward." Also, the argument that your gay friends use the word "gay" doesn't hold water because as other people have mentioned minority groups are able to appropriate slurs against them as a coping mechanism. People shouldn't be perpetuating slurs as a result. To put it more relevantly, think about how if you're Jewish you can make Jew jokes, but really no one else can. This is in a similar vein, but much more serious.

tl;dr just don't say it it's not hard to change one or two words in your vocabulary. You're not hurting anyone by changing some words you say, and no your rights are not absolute. Good day.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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Some people have mentioned this before, but I think it's important to bring this up again. Specifically for gay rights in the American context, which I will assume for the rest of this post (because this is where most of the ridiculous behavior occurs), using "lame" or other words I listed is categorically different. The reason being, those who are lame have an obvious physical impairment (here comes the flak). Those who are ******** have a scientifically provable mental impairment. And those who are depressed, while not having any obvious impairment, are still impaired in their day-to-day functionality as a result of depression. Yet all of these groups have the same rights that straight people do in the United States. Just because you're in a wheelchair doesn't prevent you from getting all of the legal rights you can get from marriage. Just because you suffer from depression doesn't mean people are going to systematically bias against you because you're depressed. If anything those who are lame, ********, or depressed are aided in society, as it should be. No one discriminates against people who use walking sticks.
wow this is absurdly ignorant. seriously, how can somebody whos so pc that they think they have the right to force ppl to stop using certain words be so unaware and ignorant about prejudice?
do your mother a favor and commit suicide
 

Superspright

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You do realize, that some people have lost their parents...and perhaps you're stepping over a line right there. I think you aren't concerned with being offensive in the first place. You've made yourself utterly irrelevant to this discussion. It would be prudent for others to take what you have to say with a pound of salt. You're just a crusty ass crab.
 

Wretched

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What if MikeHaggar was such a good troll that he intentionally posted something offensive and extremely relevant to the discussion to trigger those kinds of reactions?

I wonder...
 

CloneHat

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You can use those words if you want to. But comments like "gay people use the word, they don't care" really makes me wonder if anyone's been outside of the house recently. You're not re-writing the language. Normal people exist, and will simply be turned away from the community.
 

Krynxe

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Keep things civil, etc etc.

Don't try to enforce your opinions, or be oppressive about them. Similarly, don't lash at others for their opinions
 

XavierSylfaen

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Calling something gay is offensive to gay people
Calling something ******** is offensive to ******** people
Saying "oh ****, he just got *****" is offensive to ***** people
Saying "oh ****, he just got murdered" is offensive to people who knew murdered people

Y'all need to get the sand out of your vaginas.

Oh ****, I offended people with vaginas, let me think of a better phrase.

Y'all need to get the bee out of your bonnets.

Oh ****, I offended people who have been horrifically stung by bees.

dur dur dur

It'd be one thing if gay people or **** victims were being singled out and having these things thrown at them, but that's not the case. At all. These phrases are not directed towards them, they're words that have different connotations. If I say "that was super gay" I'm not saying it was flamboyantly homosexual, nor is anyone else. If I say "damn, he just got *****" I'm not implying he had his trousers torn off, thrown to the ground, and had a **** forced up his ass. These phrases are not at all directed towards these groups, and are just a term you can use in a different sense. Stop all this politically correct bull**** and stop being little ******* about it. Oh ****, I offended female dogs, let me think of a better phrase. Stop being overly-offended over things that are not meant to insult you.

Like I said above, nobody is singling out these people to hurt them. It'd be one thing if people went around to black people and called them a ****** as an insult, or went up to a person they knew was gay and called them a ****** or gay as an insult, or went up to a person they knew was a **** victim and said they got ***** MEANING TO EMOTIONALLY HURT THEM.

People are getting butthurt over something that's not directed at them in the first place. There's no malicious intent, and people who are seriously offended by innocuous terms need to get a thicker skin.

Life doesn't have trigger warnings.

The world is not your hugbox.
 

Spiffykins

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Even though it seems like half the people in this thread just do not get it (why isn't there a dislike button yet), I'm glad we're having this discussion and I think it says good things about the community that it's happening.

I will say this to the ongoing ignorance seeping into the thread, though...how you can read responses from queer people in this very thread explaining the issue in the simplest terms possible and still defend you or anyone using these kinds of words casually is a bit baffling.

There is a positive side, though. It helps me know who to stay the **** away from.
 

-DR3W-

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If people stopped playing gay we wouldn't have to call it gay.
 

Superspright

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There are so many better words to use. It's just showing how stupid you really are. You're grasping at the lowest of the fruit.
 

Jockmaster

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Wait there are people who actually get offended by these things? Seriously? Loosen up.

Cursing and using informal language, believe it or not, is a way that people make situations and events more intimate and fun. By using those words, you are basically casualizing the environment; you are referring to a vernacular that lends itself to a carefree and competitive environment. Of course I wouldn't say the same things around my parents that I do around smashers, that would be irresponsible.

But seriously anyone who thinks they have the right to be a pee on everyone's Post Toasties for using a word that indirectly offends them is a stupid PC ******.
 

Kyu Puff

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Cursing and using informal language, believe it or not, is a way that people make situations and events more intimate and fun. By using those words, you are basically casualizing the environment; you are referring to a vernacular that lends itself to a carefree and competitive environment. Of course I wouldn't say the same things around my parents that I do around smashers, that would be irresponsible.
Yeah when I'm not around my parents I like to throw around derogatory language about people's races and ethnicities and sexual orientations and go around making light of something that was probably a traumatic experience for someone else. You know, it's casual. Helps me make a lot of friends. Friends who are definitely not immature douchebags.
 
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