Gay, ****, Homo and similar words...

[Kyu Puff]

Words are not static things with static definitions. Language and culture are way too complicated for it to be that way. Because if this, it is asinine to isolate a word out of a sentence and take offense to it; the sentence is so much more complicated than that and has cultural and social connotation behind it. Life isn't this black and white thing where you can just willy nilly call someone mean for the slightest thing they do, you have to look at intent and context. It is unfair to the person speaking to tell them what they are saying and what they mean, despite what emotions YOU have tied to specific words.

You keep blaming the problem on "people taking offense to things". First of all, why is it wrong for someone to be offended by something? You're acting like it's more reasonable for someone to cling onto a word that they KNOW is bound to hurt people, than for someone to be hurt by the word. Replacing a word in your vocabulary is not a major lifestyle change; the reason people will say you're homophobic for continuing to use this language is because you obviously don't care about the people who are affected by it.

Second of all, for the fiftieth ****ing time, this is NOT about people "taking offense to things", it's way more nuanced than that. "Being offended" is an emotional jerk reaction to taboo material that is usually associated with surprise or disgust. I say "**** you" and you instinctively think "hey that's a bad word, I should be offended." The problems we are discussing, namely marginalization and traumatic experiences, go way deeper than just "people taking offense to things". Seriously, read the thread and stop restating the same inane argument over and over again in slightly different language.

On intent and context: it doesn't matter. If you hurt someone, you hurt them. Even if you "don't mean to" (which I find hard to believe considering you've had this discussion and still insist on using the words).

On language: It's true that language evolves and words take on new meanings. But the most common usage of "gay" is still in reference to someone's sexual orientation, and the most common usage of "****" is still in reference to forced sex. The semantic associations between words and their meanings strong enough that whenever you hear a word, each different meaning is activated in memory (with the most closely associated meaning receiving the most activation). Yes, this process is influenced by context, but you can never completely separate a word from its primary meaning.

You claim that "gay" and "gay" are two different words--then why are other words, associated with "gay" the sexual orientation, used interchangeably with "gay" meaning uncool? If someone gets b-aired by Jigglypuff five times, they might say "that was so gay", or they could say "you're a ******". Are you really going to argue that "******" has taken on a new meaning as well? "A person who plays gay"? Come on. If "****" in reference to someone beating someone else isn't supposed to conjure **** imagery, why do people always make comments on youtube saying things like "that was so ****! flagging this video for sexual content!" and get a million thumbs ups? Clearly the words aren't as detached from their original meanings as you'd like to think.

 

[CloneHat]

This thread: "No word has real meaning, it's all perception. Therefore if you take offense to a word you're an idiot."

Isn't the most important factor here making the community seem more professional, open, and cooperative?

 

[mixa]

Isn't the most important factor here making the community seem more professional, open, and cooperative?

idk maaan, 'casuals' and 'mirrors' are professional, open, and cooperative. but also pretty gay.

and now,
the mantra in this thread:
http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ&start_at=113&end_at=120


you can never completely separate a word from its primary meaning.
lol

 

[Superspright]

You keep blaming the problem on "people taking offense to things". First of all, why is it wrong for someone to be offended by something? You're acting like it's more reasonable for someone to cling onto a word that they KNOW is bound to hurt people, than for someone to be hurt by the word. Replacing a word in your vocabulary is not a major lifestyle change; the reason people will say you're homophobic for continuing to use this language is because you obviously don't care about the people who are affected by it.

Second of all, for the fiftieth ****ing time, this is NOT about people "taking offense to things", it's way more nuanced than that. "Being offended" is an emotional jerk reaction to taboo material that is usually associated with surprise or disgust. I say "**** you" and you instinctively think "hey that's a bad word, I should be offended." The problems we are discussing, namely marginalization and traumatic experiences, go way deeper than just "people taking offense to things". Seriously, read the thread and stop restating the same inane argument over and over again in slightly different language.

On intent and context: it doesn't matter. If you hurt someone, you hurt them. Even if you "don't mean to" (which I find hard to believe considering you've had this discussion and still insist on using the words).

On language: It's true that language evolves and words take on new meanings. But the most common usage of "gay" is still in reference to someone's sexual orientation, and the most common usage of "****" is still in reference to forced sex. The semantic associations between words and their meanings strong enough that whenever you hear a word, each different meaning is activated in memory (with the most closely associated meaning receiving the most activation). Yes, this process is influenced by context, but you can never completely separate a word from its primary meaning.

You claim that "gay" and "gay" are two different words--then why are other words, associated with "gay" the sexual orientation, used interchangeably with "gay" meaning uncool? If someone gets b-aired by Jigglypuff five times, they might say "that was so gay", or they could say "you're a ******". Are you really going to argue that "******" has taken on a new meaning as well? "A person who plays gay"? Come on. If "****" in reference to someone beating someone else isn't supposed to conjure **** imagery, why do people always make comments on youtube saying things like "that was so ****! flagging this video for sexual content!" and get a million thumbs ups? Clearly the words aren't as detached from their original meanings as you'd like to think.

This. People don't grasp what words are, and how powerful they have become. Simple pictures have inspired people to commit mass murder.

 

[Kyu Puff]

you can never completely separate a word from its primary meaning.
lol

Whenever you don't understand something, laugh it off. A surefire way to move the discussion forward.

 

[CanISmash]

i love gayly ****** people's homo ass in smash.

I really hate the whining about the word **** honestly. No one ******* when sports announcers talk about one team "killing" another team.

 

[mixa]

well, that's because **** > kill

Whenever you don't understand something, laugh it off. A surefire way to move the discussion forward.

lol has multiple meanings.

 

[IsmaR]

I really hate the whining about the word **** honestly. No one *****es when sports announcers talk about one team "killing" another team.

We as a species have always been okay with and even promote the idea of killing others. Hell, this is a fighting game forum. Kinda the objective to do so.

**** on the other hand has almost always been taboo.

 

[Kyu Puff]

lol has multiple meanings.

gotcha

i think.

 

[Jockmaster]

You keep blaming the problem on "people taking offense to things". First of all, why is it wrong for someone to be offended by something? You're acting like it's more reasonable for someone to cling onto a word that they KNOW is bound to hurt people, than for someone to be hurt by the word. Replacing a word in your vocabulary is not a major lifestyle change; the reason people will say you're homophobic for continuing to use this language is because you obviously don't care about the people who are affected by it.

People will know I'm not being homophobic because it has absolutely nothing to do with the homosexual cause. Like...how else do I say this. There is no element of homosexuals or my apparent phobia towards them in my language when I say "Jiggs bair is gay". You can tell this simply from just basic social cues. And the fact of the matter is, I shouldn't be demonized for not changing my ****ing vocabulary to suit the emotional needs of a vocal minority, particularly when I clearly have no ill intent.

Second of all, for the fiftieth ****ing time, this is NOT about people "taking offense to things", it's way more nuanced than that. "Being offended" is an emotional jerk reaction to taboo material that is usually associated with surprise or disgust. I say "**** you" and you instinctively think "hey that's a bad word, I should be offended." The problems we are discussing, namely marginalization and traumatic experiences, go way deeper than just "people taking offense to things". Seriously, read the thread and stop restating the same inane argument over and over again in slightly different language.

But there are a lot of times where people say "hey **** you" to me in a playful way and I am not offended whatsoever. The phrase is only as offensive as its intent. You are also restating the same argument...you do realize that we are both probably going to be unswayed by each other simply because we have different views on socialization, right?

On intent and context: it doesn't matter. If you hurt someone, you hurt them. Even if you "don't mean to" (which I find hard to believe considering you've had this discussion and still insist on using the words).

But people get offended by EVERYTHING nowadays; it's a side-effect of our PC, nancy society where if anyone does anything that could be even POSSIBLY misconstrued as derogatory, you can sue them/ruin their name and reputation forever. It's pathetic really. I just don't understand why you can't comprehend the idea people whining about stupid **** because it is a way for lonely, outcast people to get attention.

On language: It's true that language evolves and words take on new meanings. But the most common usage of "gay" is still in reference to someone's sexual orientation, and the most common usage of "****" is still in reference to forced sex. The semantic associations between words and their meanings strong enough that whenever you hear a word, each different meaning is activated in memory (with the most closely associated meaning receiving the most activation). Yes, this process is influenced by context, but you can never completely separate a word from its primary meaning.

You have absolutely no evidence to make the claim that "gay" is primarily used to refer to homosexuals nowadays. Of course in particular groups of society it is, but in many others the newer meaning is the primary one. And I completely disagree with the whole "hearing a word activates instantly every possible definition it has in your head" thing. When I hear a word within a sentence, the definition I understand is 99% of the time the definition that is implied. That's the way language works, it would be very confusing if you had to shuffle through the multiple definitions of every word in every sentence.

You claim that "gay" and "gay" are two different words--then why are other words, associated with "gay" the sexual orientation, used interchangeably with "gay" meaning uncool? If someone gets b-aired by Jigglypuff five times, they might say "that was so gay", or they could say "you're a ******". Are you really going to argue that "******" has taken on a new meaning as well? "A person who plays gay"? Come on. If "****" in reference to someone beating someone else isn't supposed to conjure **** imagery, why do people always make comments on youtube saying things like "that was so ****! flagging this video for sexual content!" and get a million thumbs ups? Clearly the words aren't as detached from their original meanings as you'd like to think.

I have no idea, I'm not a language expert by any means and have no way of knowing how the words evolved the way they did. But let's assume for the sake of your argument that the words WERE derived from a comparison to homosexuals as an insult....it doesn't matter. The origin of a word quickly loses importance as it takes on new value. I will honestly say that "******" has a different meaning in many social circles than the traditional derogatory term for a homosexual. My friends and I call each other ******s all the time and it has nothing to do with our sexual orientation (inb4 but your group of friends doesn't matter; my experience with not being offended by words is just as important as those who are always offended by them).

And "****" has just come to become an encompassing term for domination. I have no idea what idea you are conveying with the comparison you are making to youtube comments. When I say "dude get *****" when I style on someone in Melee, I'm not saying "dude get sexually assaulted against your will". This is obvious.

Just because people who are offended by words easily always try to find the worst in every statement of the word doesn't mean they are right. Just because you are offended by something does not mean you are understanding it correctly. I should not be responsible for offending people who misconstrue things that I say. Sure, something I say may offend them, but that doesn't mean that they are "right" in their offense. What if I started saying that it offends me when people say I offend them. Do you see the kind of attention-seeking power you give someone by giving them the ability to censor what you are saying by claiming offense?

 

[Kyu Puff]

People will know I'm not being homophobic because it has absolutely nothing to do with the homosexual cause. Like...how else do I say this. There is no element of homosexuals or my apparent phobia towards them in my language when I say "Jiggs bair is gay". You can tell this simply from just basic social cues.

That's not the point. Whether or not you think your language is homophobic is irrelevant. The point is that when people who are affected by the word tell you that it's not okay, and you choose to ignore them and keep using it anyways, when there are dozens of other words you could use to mean the same thing, and replacing the word would have literally no impact on your life, it's a sign that you hate them.

But there are a lot of times where people say "hey **** you" to me in a playful way and I am not offended whatsoever. The phrase is only as offensive as its intent. You are also restating the same argument...you do realize that we are both probably going to be unswayed by each other simply because we have different views on socialization, right?

I was explaining what being offended means. I'm a cognitive science/linguistics major and I'm fairly well read in the taboo word literature. You're just talking out of your ass.

But people get offended by EVERYTHING nowadays; it's a side-effect of our PC, nancy society where if anyone does anything that could be even POSSIBLY misconstrued as derogatory, you can sue them/ruin their name and reputation forever. It's pathetic really. I just don't understand why you can't comprehend the idea people whining about stupid **** because it is a way for lonely, outcast people to get attention.

for the fiftieth ****ing time, this is NOT about people "taking offense to things"

You have absolutely no evidence to make the claim that "gay" is primarily used to refer to homosexuals nowadays. Of course in particular groups of society it is, but in many others the newer meaning is the primary one. And I completely disagree with the whole "hearing a word activates instantly every possible definition it has in your head" thing. When I hear a word within a sentence, the definition I understand is 99% of the time the definition that is implied. That's the way language works, it would be very confusing if you had to shuffle through the multiple definitions of every word in every sentence.

First bolded part: that's a joke right? Do a google search ffs. It's literally a part of some people's identities. People who exist everywhere. Probably even in your friend group.

Second bolded part: again, it's science. It doesn't matter if you disagree with it, that just proves you have no idea what you're talking about. But to elaborate, it's a process that happens subconsciously. Most of the time, only the meaning that receives the most activation reaches awareness (which is why I said it's influenced by context), but the other meanings are all primed in memory and affect the way you think. It's an easily measurable effect that has been demonstrated time and time again.

I have no idea, I'm not a language expert by any means and have no way of knowing how the words evolved the way they did.

You didn't have to tell me that, it's pretty ****ing obvious.

And "****" has just come to become an encompassing term for domination. I have no idea what idea you are conveying with the comparison you are making to youtube comments. When I say "dude get *****" when I style on someone in Melee, I'm not saying "dude get sexually assaulted against your will". This is obvious.

The youtube comment example (I've seen the same comment dozens of times on different videos) demonstrates that even when people use **** to mean "domination in a video game", they are tying the meaning to forced sex, whether they intend to or not.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post because this is getting tiresome. All I can say is that I hope you grow up someday.

 

[Jockmaster]

This argument is ABSOLUTELY about people getting offended by things...how in the **** can you try to construe this otherwise?? You are literally saying people get offended by x, y, and z words, and I am saying that the offense is more than just an emotional tie to an "awful word". It's more of a perceived hostility in a non-hostile environment. Similar to an abused dog flinching when people go to pet it. That doesn't mean that the person petting the dog is a bad person for not understanding that the dog doesn't like to be touched, nor does it mean the person should never reach out to pet dogs in a similar way ever again. It basically comes down to the fact that that dog will either have to get over its fear of being touched or it will be living its life in one huge defensive position, taking every gesture as a threat to its physical and mental well-being. Not to say that fear isn't -somewhat- justified, but the fact remains that it will be miserable until it gets over the traumatic part of its life that causes it to react in such a way.

I guess the debate is over though, my closing comment being I hope you grow up as well and be a big boy without letting offhanded slang comments with no ill intent get your panties in a wad. Just because people like myself may come off as brusque or crude to overly-sensitive people does not mean we are mean or inconsiderate people. I think you're too sensitive, you think I'm too rude. Such is life.


Also, try to avoid ad hominem. It's a really gay way to go about debating someone.

No one *****es when sports announcers talk about one team "killing" another team.

I'm pretty sure that's because the demographic of the video game community is different than that of the whole world of sports. There is a vocal minority of people in the gaming world who really love to ***** about a lot of things, whether it be about the portrayal of women in video games or the "homophobia" contained in the terms gay and ****. Gotta love the internet.

This. People don't grasp what words are, and how powerful they have become. Simple pictures have inspired people to commit mass murder.

You can't blame the picture for the mass murder though. Or should we censor pictures so as to prevent inspiration for mass murder? Sounds like the problem is in the person, not the inspiration.

We as a species have always been okay with and even promote the idea of killing others. Hell, this is a fighting game forum. Kinda the objective to do so.

**** on the other hand has almost always been taboo.

The social and legal consequences for murder are drastically greater than for ****. Though in some contexts we do justify murder, saying **** is more of a taboo is just not correct.

 

[Kyu Puff]

This argument is ABSOLUTELY about people getting offended by things...how in the **** can you try to construe this otherwise?? You are literally saying people get offended by x, y, and z words, and I am saying that the offense is more than just an emotional tie to an "awful word". It's more of a perceived hostility in a non-hostile environment. Similar to an abused dog flinching when people go to pet it. That doesn't mean that the person petting the dog is a bad person for not understanding that the dog doesn't like to be touched, nor does it mean the person should never reach out to pet dogs in a similar way ever again. It basically comes down to the fact that that dog will either have to get over its fear of being touched or it will be living its life in one huge defensive position, taking every gesture as a threat to its physical and mental well-being. Not to say that fear isn't -somewhat- justified, but the fact remains that it will be miserable until it gets over the traumatic part of its life that causes it to react in such a way.

It might have something to do with perceived hostility, or it might not. Words can affect people in a multitude of different ways. Read the past several pages if you want examples. I'm tired of making this point.

I guess the debate is over though, my closing comment being I hope you grow up as well and be a big boy without letting offhanded slang comments with no ill intent get your panties in a wad. Just because people like myself may come off as brusque or crude to overly-sensitive people does not mean we are mean or inconsiderate people. I think you're too sensitive, you think I'm too rude. Such is life.

You might not be mean, I don't know you, but your attitude is the definition of inconsiderate.

Also, try to avoid ad hominem. It's a really gay way to go about debating someone.

There's never much of a debate when one person is talking about science and the other person is talking about their personal beliefs. The point had to be made sooner or later.

 

[Jockmaster]

I'm what some may call realistically considerate. I don't say "****" around people that I feel it may offend believe it or not, because it isn't worth the trouble. Doesn't mean I agree with the fact that people get offended by it, but I just avoid it altogether because I'm a mature persons. And I will admit that my tone on the internet comes off as brash, but that's mostly because tone can be difficult to translate in to text (particularly in a discussion like this).

And in a discussion about something as subjective about the offensiveness of words, I believe my personal opinion has just as much weight as anything else. I mean....the whole discussion is addressing "personal experience" that people have tied to certain words, so my lack of said traumatic experience is just as important to take in to account as the presence of theirs.

Also I like the really casual way you go about dismissing any good point I have

"It may or may not have anything to do with it" yeah yeah I know what you're saying Kyu Puff <3

 

[Kyu Puff]

"It may or may not have anything to do with it" yeah yeah I know what you're saying Kyu Puff <3

I'm really not convinced that you do.

 

[Jockmaster]

Get over it ***

 

[Melomaniacal]

Words have no power and you're only offended by them if you chose to be offended!
Just ignore how heated and offended I'm getting from the words in this thread, please.

 

[Jockmaster]

wut

If you're saying I'm getting offended by anything in this thread you are mistaken. In fact, I can't remember the last time I was "offended" by anything.

Or if I completely missed the point of your post then my bad

 

[Deleted member]

And in a discussion about something as subjective about the offensiveness of words, I believe my personal opinion has just as much weight as anything else. I mean....the whole discussion is addressing "personal experience" that people have tied to certain words, so my lack of said traumatic experience is just as important to take in to account as the presence of theirs.

Not necessarily. I was assraped when I was 9 and I can definitely say that you can choose how that kind of experience affects you as a person. If you don't have the ability to control your emotions on a particular experience, you could very well be offended and that's okay but you have to own up to the fact that your real issue lies in creating a resolution for yourself and a lack of self control. Most people that I know that have been through a similar experience use offensive humor to laugh it off as a method of empowerment. Others use crude jokes as a way to disarm the people they are with by removing tension from a situation. A number of people will escalate the tension with an emotional response,but even those people are relatively few in number. Regardless of whatever traumatic experience you've been through, it doesn't define your person.

I sympathize with victims of **** and abuse but only to a point. After a certain point, you have to consider that the victim may also be contributing to their situation to whatever extent. As is in our society, a woman can go to a party and get wasted, have sex, regret it the next morning, and that's considered **** because her impaired judgment invalidates her prior consent if she wishes it to. To me, all I see is a lack of responsibility for the woman that willfully allowed herself to be in that position. Current feminist literature suggests that a woman giving dissenting consent to her husband for sex is just as much as a victim as the woman that is attacked in the streets. This effectively puts both of them on moral parity, which is frankly disgusting. I cannot see people that set themselves up for trauma/abuse as "victims" having in some meaningful and intentional way contributed to their situation.

I reiterate, I know a lot of people don't want to "deal with it" but honestly sometimes that's just the best answer whether you like it or not. I don't intend to stop using "offensive" language any time soon because I don't believe in catering my actions to extremist or unrealistic viewpoints, nor am I interested in a subservient social role that unnecessarily controls my actions as a coping mechanism for the lack of self control of others. And I know that should weigh heavily on my conscience, but luckily my conscience knows when it's being bullied and manipulated so it doesn't care either.

 

[trash?]

Words have meaning. I... I can't believe that's an argument that needs to be made. Of course words have meaning, they have to have meaning in order to be the basic concept of words. Come on, don't be silly.

In this actual heart of the topic, though: as a Dude Who Digs Dudes, I am playing snake in P:M out of pure spite. RECLAIM THE HOMO

 

[Jockmaster]

I'm not saying words have no meaning Canon, I'm saying their purpose within the context of the sentence and the situation itself is 99% more important than the textbook definition of the word when addressing the "offensiveness" of the word

@Umbreon tru tru

 

[RoxburyGuy58]

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Superspright]

**** and gay shouldn't be used as a pejorative for winning or losing.

/thread

You've all been shown that either you're oblivious to psychology or you're too immature to comprehend the consequences of your actions. Either way, if you say it in front of me I am stabbing you with a ****ing cattle prod. Don't worry. It's just electricity and we have electricity going through our bodies. It shouldn't be offensive to the body.

 

[Sedda]

Why do some people think that, because the original meaning of the word "gay" is "happy," it's alright for us to use it?

Here is your the timeline:

Gay = Happy -------> Gay is the word that the homosexual community adopted for itself ------> Mainstream homophobic society proceeds to use "gay" as a word to describe things negatively ------> People who use "gay" to describe something negatively say that the word actually means "happy," so "no harm done." wat

Yes, it meant happy at one point. The fact of the matter is that it gained a negative connotation after people decided to use it in negative terms because of their ignorance/stupidity/hatred for the homosexual community

The negative connotation placed on the word "gay" by our homophobic society is the precedent that allows the way you describe jigg's bair as "gay" to mean something bad or stupid. You would have to be awfully stupid to believe that you're allowed to quote the old meaning of a word to defend its use while it's obvious that you're utilizing its mainstream negative connotation.

 

[Jockmaster]

You've all been shown that either you're oblivious to psychology or you're too immature to comprehend the consequences of your actions. Either way, if you say it in front of me I am stabbing you with a ****ing cattle prod. Don't worry. It's just electricity and we have electricity going through our bodies. It shouldn't be offensive to the body.

You're insane and that's an awful analogy. Having a victim complex and getting physically harmed by something that will most likely harm 99.99% of people are completely different.

 

[Morin0]

Be careful

 

[Superspright]

You're insane and that's an awful analogy. Having a victim complex and getting physically harmed by something that will most likely harm 99.99% of people are completely different.

Get a new vocabulary. Grow up. Do something other than keep using words that have no relationship to WINNING. **** is NOT winning. **** is NOT good. Unless the context is actual violent sexual assault then it's not appropriate. Especially for a kid's fighting game. The English language is probably the most robust on Earth with tons of words that have the exact same meaning...you mean to tell me that you can't find one of those words to replace this one because you're offended that someone else is offended? So you continue offending them? Seriously this is the kind of **** that makes people get punched in the face.

 

[Jockmaster]

In that case you should never use curse words either because they are mostly obscene in nature and have no "good" usage. The fact of the matter is that I don't believe that censoring others and shoving your emotional problems down their throat is an effective means of either getting over it OR helping them understand you.

 

[trash?]

If you can't understand how slurs have more important because of how they're attached to living, breathing human beings, then that's your problem.

Keep trying to pretend your comfortable sitting in the status quo is somehow "rebelling against political correctness", though. Everyone else on the planet's doing the same thing.

 

[Superspright]

**** is an inflammatory word. We're using it for an effect which is to hurt the other person [unless they take 0 offense to being '*****']. Now if that person HAS been physically *****, is it really right to say that? Or if someone they care about has been *****? Just the word itself should feel filthy in your mouth. Until you've seen firsthand what happens to a person after they've been ***** you don't have much right to use it...and because so many people outside of the gaming community frown on it it should be obvious that we should avoid this word entirely in our lexicon. You're just ignoring people who actually have feelings and don't want to hear you talking about **** every three seconds. It's immature and crass.

 

[Kadano]

The defining trait of **** is that you penetrate somebody’s privacy without having them want it. That’s exactly what happens in Melee, it’s just not as disturbing for the receiving end as in real life.

That concept is omnipresent in life. Cat eats mouse, pig gets slaughtered, horny dog gets at your leg … it’s ridiculous to try to ban a word from being used although it’s an accurate description of that situation just because of political correctness.

There is no need to assume people who use the word **** in Melee context aren’t capable of empathy towards real **** victims. Melee is simply not about reading someones needs and wishes and giving him that, it’s about the opposite—reading him and destroying everything he has and tries to resort to. I don’t see a problem with embracing that.

 

[Superspright]

The defining trait in **** is penetration of someone's body for sexual means. Stabbing someone with a spear is now ****? You're an idiot.

 

[CloneHat]

**** and gay shouldn't be used as a pejorative for winning or losing.

/thread

You've all been shown that either you're oblivious to psychology or you're too immature to comprehend the consequences of your actions. Either way, if you say it in front of me I am stabbing you with a ****ing cattle prod. Don't worry. It's just electricity and we have electricity going through our bodies. It shouldn't be offensive to the body.

LMAO can we end on a high note?

 

[Kadano]

The defining trait in **** is penetration of someone's body for sexual means. Stabbing someone with a spear is now ****? You're an idiot.

I wrote privacy. Not body. Depending on culture and personal experience, people can feel ***** by someone touching certain body parts or merely looking at them. That's why I chose privacy - because the discussion was about people who got/felt ***** and don't want to get reminded of that.

 

[Derkis]

How is it, when we're under the protective umbrella of a smash tournament or the "smash community", that existing words are somehow stripped of the parts of their contemporary definitions that aren't particularly convenient or pleasant? There are few subcultures which don't develop some kind of jargon, and it's true that we develop a new understanding of the jargon's comprising terminology under the context of that subculture. That doesn't mean, however, that the other layers of each word's definition are suddenly irrelevant--it's called a subculture because it's a subset of the broader culture of which we are all part, whether we like it or not.

The context that you're operating in when you decide to use any word is not just the other words that comprise that particular sentence, nor is the the understanding you assume the rest of the members of your particular subculture should share (and you certainly shouldn't be making that assumption). The context is the collective understanding we have for what that word means--from sentence to subculture to all the way up the rest of the chain. If our culture, as English speakers, understands a word to describe a horrific and violent act, then as members of the subset of that culture, English-speaking Smash players, we're all still implicitly making that association when the word is used, even if it's used in a way that isn't directly describing the horrific act. You can't just un-understand one meaning of the word when it's convenient for you. The fact that your brain is going to make connections, not just between the word and its most obvious, local signified idea, but also all the other ideas which might be bundled into other aspects of its definition is what makes metaphor and other figures of speech so powerful.

You can choose to deny that the words you use them exist in this meta-context, and nobody can really stop you from using whatever words you wish. Similarly, you can't control how other people are going to understand the words you use (members of the smash community or otherwise), especially when you're using overloaded words which have a few potentially offensive shades to their definition. If you're comfortable not respecting that fact that people may rightly be offended of repulsed by what you say, that's one thing. But don't attempt to trivialize other more-commonly understood definitions of a word (and in this particular case, far more consequential definitions) to make yourself feel better about it.

 

[Superspright]

I wrote privacy. Not body. Depending on culture and personal experience, people can feel ***** by someone touching certain body parts or merely looking at them. That's why I chose privacy - because the discussion was about people who got/felt ***** and don't want to get reminded of that.

This is why women scream **** or think **** whenever they feel slightly uncomfortable. I've had girls go down my pants before and I stopped them. That's not ****. It's just a failed advance. People break boundaries all the time, and if we can merely LOOK at someone and **** them...then we're in some bad times. I never knew you could literally **** someone with your mind.

I think your definition of **** isn't loose so much as it's completely wrong.

There are quite a few smart people in this thread, and for those of you who haven't noticed [the ones saying **** is fine to say] the ones who outline their arguments with logic, and knowledge on the way our brain makes associations has definitely illuminated the pitfalls of using such a word. It's just laziness on the speakers part to use such a word, and we're doing ourselves no favors by saying it and being heard by anyone.

 

[Deleted member]

Current American **** laws have expanded beyond the scope of force and/or threats to include verbal coercion and pressuring (asking) a woman for sex can also be taken as harassment or abuse, even if it's the first time with no prior knowledge so long as she feels that she is under duress. A woman can also later site verbal coercion for sex she had previously consented to, which functionally expands the definition of **** to any sexual encounter that the woman perceived as negative. The legal definition for abuse has also expanded past physical abuse to offensive verbal and non-verbal communication, such as name calling or giving a threatening look. I think it would be very easy to legally **** someone with your mind if a woman perceived that your leering put her under emotional duress that made her feel coerced into sex, even if she had given verbal consent at that time.

Kadano is from Europe where the **** laws might actually make sense. I would not be surprised to see a discrepancy in the definition.

 

[Superspright]

I live in America, and we recently had to change our **** laws in NY because a man forced oral sex from a woman and then had anal sex with her and because of the way the law was written it did not count as ****. It's kinda sick how he used loopholes. **** for the most part cannot even happen to a man according to our laws. I can't say our laws here make sense...and clearly do not protect victims or people falsely accused of ****. It's bad all around.

 

[Kadano]

I think your definition of **** isn't loose so much as it's completely wrong.

The funny thing is, I didn’t even offer my definition of ****. I merely made a claim about its defining trait—the requirements for a sexual encounter to classify as ****. The same requirements apply in Melee, it’s just not in a sexual context. Of course there are alternative words that also describe that situation: getting bodied, destroyed, violated etc. But none of these give such a striking impression of the receiving end not enjoying the act as ****.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

This thread: "No word has real meaning, it's all perception. Therefore if you take offense to a word you're an idiot."

Isn't the most important factor here making the community seem more professional, open, and cooperative?

yes lets all stop acting natural and being ourselves and sucking up to norms because we're insecure about what other people think