Gay, ****, Homo and similar words...

[Kyu Puff]

I have zero issues with women. I know when and when not to say things.

But why would you ever hold back? People just need to stop being wimps right?

 

[Xyro77]

Holding back isn't the same as knowing when not to say something.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Let me rephrase the question: why is there ever a time not to say something? Isn't it other people's responsibility to not be offended by what you say?

 

[WumpaWolfy]

Can you imagine what it would be like if the smash bros community put as much effort into creating jargon for trash talking and johning as they did naming the mechanics and AT's they've discovered in melee? Come on people, show a little creativity!

 

[Zone]

JIGGLYPUFF SUCKS.

There, problem solved. Sensitive Feelings are left un-murdered, and mouthy teenagers still get to swear. Everyone wins.



Oak?

No, you can't say jigglypuff sucks either, someone who's a fan of jigglypuff might be offended that you described jigglypuff in such a manner. Because that tends to imply they like things that "suck" or are "lame"

Might want to say "Jigglypuff is uninteresting to me." That way it comes off as a respectful opinion right off the bat. I mean we just need to change a few words so we don't offend people.

*sarcasm*



I'm of the opinion that, it's your life. Live it how you want to live it, as long as you don't abuse other people. If someone does something you don't like. As long as they aren't hurting me, time to man up and level up my tolerance levels.

Religion offends me, I find it gross and vile. Lets not get into that, but at work they'll have group prayer. I don't join in, but I also don't ask them to stop their routines, because I respect their freedom to live life the way they want. And I use my high-tolerance to deal with it.

I don't make people adapt to me.

I adapt to people.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Probably a bad idea to jump into this, but here are my two cents.

The words "gay" and "***" (censored derogatory f-word used to describe gay people) have nothing to do with how people choose to get offended. However, it's not unlikely that there are LGBT people around who have been, in the past or present, bullied, harassed, or assaulted as a result of their orientation. I think it's wrong to ask these people to "put up with" people calling each other names that have likely been used to cause (possibly severe) emotional harm to these people. They have no control or choice over the matter. Arguing your right to say these words because people should "deal with it" is, in my opinion, simply inconsiderate, at the least.

The words "gay" and "***" are still frequently used to offend and harass gay people in today's society. Thus, the meaning of these words has by no means transgressed beyond being offensive toward a specific (large) group of people.

If you're going to call your friend a "***" at a smashfest then I dare you to instead call him a "******" (<-- n-word in case Smashboards censors) in the same context and see what happens.

Finally, ****. Again, the word "****" is not something where people simply choose to be offended or made uncomfortable by the word. If someone has been ***** or gone through a traumatic experience involving ****, then hearing someone describe an event as "getting *****" is likely a suitable trigger word which forces the victim to recall that traumatic experience. This applies to women or men.

Final note: It's impossible to be 100% non-offensive. In fact, this is probably an argument that people use in order to justify the usage of the words "gay" and "****". However, my argument is that these words, specifically, target a statistically large enough group of people that one should refrain from using them, out of courtesy. For instance, I'm not going to argue that one should avoid the word "wrecked" because it might be a trigger word for somebody. However, "gay" and "****" are not only offensive, but uncontrollably harmful to a large population, and in my opinion, simply omitting these "controversial" words from one's vocabulary is the most straightforward solution, and not much to ask.

 

[EscalatorBoy]

Common usage of these terms needs to go. Anyone that has that knee-jerk reaction of defending the use of them should just go ahead and not use them and not defend them.

It's a problem that feeds on to itself: We use offensive language because nobody complains, and nobody complains because the people that would normally complain don't want to have anything to do with us. I value inclusiveness over the habitual use of unimportant words.

Besides, purposefully avoiding such language opens up options for other words to use. Why would you want to say you ***** someone when saying that you disemboweled them is far more colourful and less exclusionary?

 

[Kati]

Whenever I feel sad about not having attended a tourny yet, I just remember the latest recorded match or stream that employed this kind of language, and then feel content playing with friends at home again.

Great game, cool community, an inexcusable tradition.

 

[Zone]

Arguing your right to say these words because people should "deal with it" is, in my opinion, simply inconsiderate, at the least.

See I would agree that it's inconsiderate, and I agree we SHOULD avoid using these terms.

People have just as much right to criticize people who use controversial words, When I say raise tolerance levels. That's just my advice to anyone who takes offense to things. getting upset over some words is only going to make you feel bad. And if people bullied you for being gay, or w/e. You know they're just assholes looking for someone to hate, and they are ignorant as all hell. Their intent to degrade you is obviously a trashy move, and I understand that the way they use these words are MEANT to hurt your feelings.

But don't get mad at some kid who says "lol that's gay." when it's EXTREMELY obvious he means it in a way to say "lame" I have never once thought "man on man action, or female on female action" when a smasher uses it in this context. It's OBVIOUS he/she is not trying to offend anyone when they're describing fox's tactics as lame.

At the same time, people STILL get offended. That's why I try to avoid using these words.

My advice is, try to avoid using these terms. But also level up your tolerance of it.

Everyone should aim for both of these.

 

[Deleted member]

Willful use of offensive language is certainly lacking in consideration of others. I don't think that point is even debatable. However, if you are the target of that inconsideration, you can still choose to handle the situation with grace and tolerance despite the affronts on your character. Asking others to not use that language is, in my opinion, an effort to control another person and is therefore equally disrespectful and inconsiderate. You can say, "Your language hurts my feelings." and handle the situation with tact merely by expressing your point of view in a non-demanding way. Just because you've been offended doesn't mean you have to respond with equally lacking moral integrity.

I think a lot of people in our generation don't want to "deal with" anything when it's the best thing for them. It's pretty sad honestly.

 

[PGH Carroll]

I for one prefer the word "Fisted" to "*****"
Its only a trigger to those who have had entire hands in their asses which im gonna bet is not a big number.

Example.
"Hey Carroll how did you do at the last tourney!?"
"I played good in winners till I got FISTED by TheLake"

Try It out! A lot better if you ask me.

 

[Mono.]

I think if anything, language, not just gay, ****, etc but foul words in general, should be filtered upon commentators while being streaming because at that moment those two, three, or how ever many guys are being the face of the community to those who aren't familiar with Melee. What they say and do often will reflect how legitimate the melee community is, aside from the players being streamed themselves.

However, expecting every player to suddenly stop doing something they've been doing for years among each other in a fairly informal environment is very unrealistic no matter how much the community would benefit from it. It should be a matter of picking and choosing words appropiately and using freedom of speech wisely.

 

[choknater]

i'm with PGH carroll

#fistedmovement2014

 

[Shorts]

I don't know. I only think these words hurt, if:

1. Are being broadcasted to a large audience

2. Used maliciously or to hurt someone/a group

Otherwise, I don't know. I like "h8ful" and "mean" humor. As a dude who does enjoy a nice ******* occasionally, I don't find a genuine person making a joke/using a word loosely offensive, IF they're not being hurtful with said word. As for a large audience, I just think it's a distasteful; well, very distasteful.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Willful use of offensive language is certainly lacking in consideration of others. I don't think that point is even debatable. However, if you are the target of that inconsideration, you can still choose to handle the situation with grace and tolerance despite the affronts on your character. Asking others to not use that language is, in my opinion, an effort to control another person and is therefore equally disrespectful and inconsiderate. You can say, "Your language hurts my feelings." and handle the situation with tact merely by expressing your point of view in a non-demanding way. Just because you've been offended doesn't mean you have to respond with equally lacking moral integrity.

I think a lot of people in our generation don't want to "deal with" anything when it's the best thing for them. It's pretty sad honestly.

let's try to map out this logic

person 1 says "that's gay" -> person 2 says "that language hurts my feelings" -> person 1 is continues to use gay as a pejorative = person 1 is inconsiderate

person 1 says "that's gay" -> person 2 says "please don't use that word as a pejorative, it hurts my feelings" -> person 1 continues = person 1 and person 2 are equally at fault

How exactly is asking someone to stop behavior that hurts you disrespectful? If someone is stepping on your toes, you can either say ow and hope they stop, or you can tell them to stop stepping on your toes. Either way, you speak with the intent of making them stop; the only difference is that one is direct and therefore more likely to get the point across.

 

[| Big D |]

Whenever I feel sad about not having attended a tourny yet, I just remember the latest recorded match or stream that employed this kind of language, and then feel content playing with friends at home again.

Great game, cool community, an inexcusable tradition.

You should look up the UVic scene. You can find them on facebook.

I'm sure you would have a lot of fun, I know the guys down there and it's a very positive community.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

Freedom of speech and all. I think you can tell when someone is using these words figuratively vs literally. Whether or not someone is being discriminatory depends on the context. "That dude that camps with Peach is a homo" just means I feel he plays cheesey or scrubby. But "that dude playing Peach is a God hating homo" then I probably think he's homosexual and hate him for it.

Thankfully, Smash events are held in person, so if someone gets out of line like that you can just sock 'em one. Lot of times bigots are that way because no one ever set them straight.

 

[EscalatorBoy]

Let's be clear about one thing: this is not a freedom of speech issue. We all obviously have the right to say anything we please, but everyone else has an equal right to judge us for what we say.

The issue of trivializing **** and gay bashing runs deeper than a few hurt feelings; there's a cultural context that shouldn't be ignored, and it keeps people away from Smash when it might otherwise be a welcoming and progressive community.

 

[andzrej]

The issue of trivializing **** and gay bashing runs deeper than a few hurt feelings; there's a cultural context that shouldn't be ignored, and it keeps people away from Smash when it might otherwise be a welcoming and progressive community.

Yes. Especially if you are a commentator, because you are then a representative of Smash for that tournament, for those watching who may not familiar with smash or just new to the scene.

My opinion on this is, if you have an opportunity to be diplomatic, why not take it? I personally am not really affected by words like ****, and ******. Yet, you never really know how people are going to be affected by those words. If you were indirectly or directly affected by a ****, it's not as simple as just brushing it off. Same goes for being bullied while growing up in school. You just never know how it's going to impact someone.

In addition, it's very easy to ameliorate this situation. All you have to do is say "I got destroyed at this tournament." "Andzrej got wrecked." "Dude, I hate jigglypuffs! They're so cheap.", instead of words that may alienate large groups of people.

just my 2c.

 

[nooga]

Bump.

This thread was interesting.

 

[PGH Carroll]

"Meteor Smashes" is offensive to Dinosaurs

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo's down B Disable is offensive to ableists.

 

[MookieRah]

Willful use of offensive language is certainly lacking in consideration of others. I don't think that point is even debatable. However, if you are the target of that inconsideration, you can still choose to handle the situation with grace and tolerance despite the affronts on your character. Asking others to not use that language is, in my opinion, an effort to control another person and is therefore equally disrespectful and inconsiderate.

Kyu Puff already said it, but wow, this makes very little sense.

If someone is saying **** that is offensive knowingly, they should have to deal with the flack that comes with it. For someone just to ask them just to attempt to stop or limit the usage of those words, that is in fact a polite way of putting it. Saying "Shut the hell up you ignorant prick!" would be impolite.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Would you care to explain that sentence, or is this sentence too hostile for an answer.

I still haven't gotten my explanation. That makes me

No, you can't say jigglypuff sucks either

>implying I wasn't joking
>implying I didn't make that a long time ago
>implying I say other stuff similar to that.

Does anyone see what is wrong with this opening statement?

someone who's a fan of jigglypuff might be offended

that you described jigglypuff in such a manner.

(Perhaps I should've said Kirby instead of Jigglypuff. Maybe then it'd be a little more clear what I was going for)

I mean we just need to change a few words so we don't offend people. *sarcasm*

I'm of the opinion that, it's your life. Live it how you want to live it, as long as you don't abuse other people. If someone does something you don't like. As long as they aren't hurting me, time to man up and level up my tolerance levels.

Religion offends me, I find it gross and vile. Lets not get into that, but at work they'll have group prayer. I don't join in, but I also don't ask them to stop their routines, because I respect their freedom to live life the way they want. And I use my high-tolerance to deal with it.

I don't make people adapt to me.

I adapt to people.

I would criticize this part of your post for being preachy rambling, but it's 2:45 am on a Friday night, and I wish I could just forget this conversation ever happened.

 

[Papa+Stone]

What the hell why are you guys talking about religion? No seriously whats going on here

 

[danieljosebatista]

I can't believe this thread is still active. Can we start posting threads actually related to Melee?

 

[Caz1]

Why did I read every single post in this entire thread O.o

The issue is a lot more simple than a debate on morality and freedom of speech, guys. The world outside of Smash isn't going to suddenly accept the ways in which smashers use words like gay and ****. Therefore, we have 2 choices: Continue to use these words and ensure that we'll never be taken seriously, or just stop using them at little inconvenience to us. I personally would want the Smash community to be taken seriously on a larger scale. I think we have something great here and it deserves to be bigger. But it's just not going to happen until we clean up the speech. Note that this is REGARDLESS of how anyone FEELS about the subject. Whether or not the words offend you, or you feel your freedoms of speech are being violated, or you think everyone needs to grow up (this applies to both sides), or we all just need tougher skin.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I think this thread's gonna be closed soon.

 

[Yeerk]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-everyone-gets-wrong-about-being-offended/

 

[Zone]

>implying I wasn't joking
>implying I didn't make that a long time ago
>implying I say other stuff similar to that.

Lol you should apply that to yourself as

I was clearly joking with hence, sarcasm.

The rest of that was not aimed at you.


You implied implications that didn't exist.

Nice work.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Lol you should apply that to yourself as

I was clearly joking with hence, sarcasm.

(your still implying I didn't make that a long time ago)

The rest of that was not aimed at you.

When deciding post order, always put the part of the quote not directed at anyone your replying to FIRST so they don't think your talking to them.

You implied implications that didn't exist.

(implying I didn't make that a long time ago again. wow twice in a row)

 

[SixSaw]

Being offended is a choice. It's unfair to expect others to change their behavior simply because you perceive ill-intent that isn't really there.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Being offended is a choice. It's unfair to expect others to change their behavior simply because you perceive ill-intent that isn't really there.

Being offended is not a choice, it's an emotional reaction. But these words can do more than just offend people: they can damage self-esteem, make someone feel like they don't belong, or, in the case of "****", they can evoke painful memories of a trauma.

Intent is irrelevant. You don't exist in a vacuum; your choices affect those around you. Whether you intend them to or not. If you know you are making people feel uncomfortable or hurt, YOU have a choice: you can try to rationalize your insensitivity and cater to your ego, or you can empathize and change. I guess it comes down to personality: some people just can't admit when they're wrong, so in order to resolve the cognitive dissonance ("I don't believe in hurting people, but apparently my actions are hurting people") they need to place the blame on others.

Words are cheap, but powerful. It's easier for you to replace a few words in your vocabulary than it is for someone to completely dissociate a word from its meaning (and the emotional reaction that is associated with that meaning).

 

[JJTheJetPlane]

You guys are honestly expecting a community to be empathetic to gay people when they don't even know how to use deodorant properly?