Q&A Ganon's Cauldron of Questions (Ganon Q/A Thread)

[Ray_Kalm]

Should I be angling ganon's f-smash? I just realized it can be angled up or down. It looks like they kind of affect trajectory but I'm not sure.

Don't angle it. The normal angle, both sweetspot and sourhit, kills the earliest.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Don't angle it. The normal angle, both sweetspot and sourhit, kills the earliest.

Except vs someone like Kirby, who you have to angle it downwards.

 

[DynamicMoves]

Any ganondorf want to take me and teach me the ways of beating the crap out of characters like duck hunt and other projectile spammers? I'm having a ton of trouble with them. My friend code is 4485 0297 2818

 

[Z1GMA]

Up-angeled Fsmash can sometimes work as an AA. I Think it works good when Hard Reading aerial foes.

 

[Shogger]

Don't angle it. The normal angle, both sweetspot and sourhit, kills the earliest.

Crud. Guess I'd better untrain my habit of angling Fsmash upward.

 

[ToxoT]

Hello, fellow Ganon users. I've been frequenting the boards for the past few years learning as much as I can and how to be good with my favorite character since melee. I'm waiting for the WiiU release but in the meantime I hope to get acquainted with all of you.

Most of the things I've been wondering about Ganondorf in this iteration have been answered already, and I really won't be able to understand everything until I have the controller in my hands. Regardless, I am curious about Dark Dive, that is if it can be b-reversed or is a viable OOS option. Another thing, it seems like d-tilt has reduced knockback at lower percents. I've seen it combo into itself and jab/f-tilt, but is it possible to land an aerial after?

 

[mangamusicfan]

Hello ganon users we all know the best way to play with ganon is defensive.
But my question is can hè also be a good offensive character?
Tnx!

 

[SaltyKracka]

Hello ganon users we all know the best way to play with ganon is defensive.
But my question is can hè also be a good offensive character?
Tnx!

Given that SSB4 is shaping up to be a very defensive game (just like Brawl, really) and that fact that Ganondorf is still pretty slow, I'd say no.

 

[Twoyears]

How do I not get owned by sheik? I feel like anything I do is pointless.

 

[SaltyKracka]

How do I not get owned by sheik? I feel like anything I do is pointless.

I feel the best idea is to bait approaches, make liberal use of pivot grabs, and win the edgeguarding and off-stage aerial war.

 

[Twewy]

How do you deal with Rosalina? It seems every time I finally get her Stand Luma KOed she pops another one up by the time I can get a hit in.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Haven't faced one with Ganon yet, but I'd think you'd want to break that IC habit. The Lumas should be ignored, much like pikmin, and you should focus on trying to hit her, impossible as that generally is.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How do you deal with Rosalina? It seems every time I finally get her Stand Luma KOed she pops another one up by the time I can get a hit in.

From what I've seen, you almost want to go ham against Rosalina whenever it's a situation where Luma can't punish you severely, given Rosalina's KO power is low without Luma. Say if they're grouped, try F-smashing and seeing what happens. If Rosalina shields, at least you knock Luma away and eating a Smash from solo Rosalina isn't too bad. And maybe if she attacks, she eats it instead and of course as Ganondorf, you don't mind that.

I don't think you can really beat her by playing smart in the conventional sense. She'll out-control you, guaranteed. The best way for Ganon to try to beat her is by bulldozing her down with risky plays that swat Luma away simultaneously and then of course when Luma isn't a threat, you gain options to open her up.

Haven't faced one with Ganon yet, but I'd think you'd want to break that IC habit. The Lumas should be ignored, much like pikmin, and you should focus on trying to hit her, impossible as that generally is.

You can't really ignore Luma, because he DOES create really stupid pressure/defense situations and he's the source of the majority of her KO power. While your primary focus is hitting Rosalina, you want to do it in a way that swats Luma simultaneously, even if it means using moves that you think would normally be risky. The two ideal potential outcomes are Rosalina shields and gets a minor punish, or she gets hit and Ganon approves.

 

[Z1GMA]

it seems like d-tilt has reduced knockback at lower percents. I've seen it combo into itself and jab/f-tilt, but is it possible to land an aerial after?

Ya, Dtilt > Uair is pretty nice.

 

[Igneous42]

You can't really ignore Luma, because he DOES create really stupid pressure/defense situations and he's the source of the majority of her KO power. While your primary focus is hitting Rosalina, you want to do it in a way that swats Luma simultaneously, even if it means using moves that you think would normally be risky. The two ideal potential outcomes are Rosalina shields and gets a minor punish, or she gets hit and Ganon approves.

Agreed, in my experience Ganondorf can swat Luma away pretty damn fast. Especially if the Rosaluma player is trying to be defensive and not keeping the Luma close to Rosi. Take advantage of that and swat it away with couple hits, doesn't take much from Ganon.

My question is how are people dealing with Ganondorf's seemingly abysmally awful priority. For being the menacing king of evil it seems like any wet noodle has priority over almost anything he does. Especially from below. The amount of stuff that easily stops the wizard kick or down Aerial is ridiculous. Seems like my only option is to try to land far enough away that they can't instantly grab me again and start the whole thing over. But even on the ground it sometimes feels like my only option for getting hits in is punishing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganon's Wizkick and N-air are decent for hitting things below him. You just have to use them intelligently and watch your opponent's spacing. Wizkick very slightly delays Ganon's descent before shooting downwards, which can throw off people easily and kill them. N-air has a great lingering hitbox that comes out fast and can hit twice.

 

[Untouch]

Just knock the luma away once, the luma AI isn't very smart and stands there for a while until rosalina calls it back.

 

[Shogger]

So this is a technique I've been seeing a lot of Ganons use, but that I have not managed to use correctly yet. Basically, you steal the ledge from someone using WKC or just quickly running off the stage and grabbing the ledge, and then you instantly Bair them. I have some questions about it.

Is it guaranteed? If I push them off the ledge, will I be able to land that Bair 100% of the time?

Does it only work on some members of the roster? Does it rely on the opponent not reacting ASAP?

I tried to do it against a CPU Mario but he could always react before I could throw out Bair. Additionally, tips for not screwing up the ledgegrab and fastfalling off the stage would be appreciated.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You want to time the ledge steal in a way so that you grab it RIGHT AFTER your opponent does. You can get up to like a 30 frame advantage if you do it really tight, which is more than enough to make B-air guaranteed on everyone.

 

[Shogger]

You want to time the ledge steal in a way so that you grab it RIGHT AFTER your opponent does. You can get up to like a 30 frame advantage if you do it really tight, which is more than enough to make B-air guaranteed on everyone.

Oh. OH. I get it. I was trying to do it too late. I got an earlier ledge steal and it was cake to Bair them.

Seems hard to use, but I'll just have to put in the practice.

 

[GwJ]

I mean, it's EASY to do, you're just not always given an opportunity to do it because it depends on your opponent so much. If you can do it, go for it since it's easy and is a guaranteed strong hit that's already off the ledge, but don't fish for it too much.

 

[_Magus_]

So....IASA frames. Love 'em to death. Use em on the U smash and skid animation to slip in an unexpected f tilt when my opponent rushes in stupidly.

Is there anything else besides u smash and skidding that has IASA frames?

EDIT: How the **** do I use bair off the ledge without going too far to recover? No matter what I do, I always SD.

 

[_Magus_]

Hello, fellow Ganon users. I've been frequenting the boards for the past few years learning as much as I can and how to be good with my favorite character since melee. I'm waiting for the WiiU release but in the meantime I hope to get acquainted with all of you.

Most of the things I've been wondering about Ganondorf in this iteration have been answered already, and I really won't be able to understand everything until I have the controller in my hands. Regardless, I am curious about Dark Dive, that is if it can be b-reversed or is a viable OOS option. Another thing, it seems like d-tilt has reduced knockback at lower percents. I've seen it combo into itself and jab/f-tilt, but is it possible to land an aerial after?

I've used it OOS, but it's better as a mixup than a default defensive option. Use it when your opponent is expecting something else.

 

[Superm@n]

Hi !

Is Ganondorf's down smash still air dodgeable after the first hit ?
Because in Brawl, 1 time out of 2 the opponent was able to air dodge the smash (charged or not) even if the first kick hit.

 

[GwJ]

So....IASA frames. Love 'em to death. Use em on the U smash and skid animation to slip in an unexpected f tilt when my opponent rushes in stupidly.

Is there anything else besides u smash and skidding that has IASA frames?

EDIT: How the **** do I use bair off the ledge without going too far to recover? No matter what I do, I always SD.

Not sure how you're SD'ing, I've never SD'd doing that. I just press back and double jump immediately into a bair then UpB and make it back comfortably.

 

[ToxoT]

I've used it OOS, but it's better as a mixup than a default defensive option. Use it when your opponent is expecting something else.

Yes, that along with dsmash and warlock punch are my favorite moves. I don't know, there's just something satisfying about landing seemingly inapplicable attacks like that with a character amongst the worst in the series. Ganon is a lot like Dan in the SF series in that regard. I guess more what I'm wondering is if that the opponent can attack immediately after they are launched from the grab of dark dive.

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-smash is probably underrated tbh. Powershield -> D-smash is pretty legit if your reactions are really good. It's Ganon's fastest Smash, and it got buffed to do more damage in this game. I forget if it does 22% in this game as opposed to 19%? It's definitely a better raw punish this game, especially when you keep in mind it does have longer range than Ganon's other ground moves.

The main thing that upsets me about D-smash is the 2nd hit still has that dumb property where it PULLS PEOPLE WHO BLOCK IT. Not to mention certain characters occasionally drop out of the hits due to their hurtbox/physics. Like, if D-smash 2nd hit just pushed people away normally on block, it would be legitimately valuable for spacing because of its range and leanback properties.

 

[_Magus_]

Yes, that along with dsmash and warlock punch are my favorite moves. I don't know, there's just something satisfying about landing seemingly inapplicable attacks like that with a character amongst the worst in the series. Ganon is a lot like Dan in the SF series in that regard. I guess more what I'm wondering is if that the opponent can attack immediately after they are launched from the grab of dark dive.

To be clear, we're talking about Brawl Ganon, not this one, right? XD XD

 

[SaltyKracka]

I could certainly stand for F-smash (or something. Anything!) to have some actual disjoint. Or range.

 

[_Magus_]

I could certainly stand for F-smash (or something. Anything!) to have some actual disjoint. Or range.

The power, tools, and combos are worth it, brother. The Dark Lord is too bad*** to need range. XD

 

[A2ZOMG]

I could certainly stand for F-smash (or something. Anything!) to have some actual disjoint. Or range.

D-tilt has massive, partially disjointed range.

U-smash is actually a pretty massive disjointed hitbox, but you almost never actually get to take advantage of it due to its significant startup and Ganondorf's low mobility. Which is going to be a different story with DACUS.

 

[Z1GMA]

Does anyone know the best method for surviving when launched at high% in this game?
Is it like Brawl, where you use Ganon's fastest aerial and FF, or is there a better way?

 

[_Magus_]

I don't think i ever got an answer to my question. Does Ganon have IASA frames on anything besides his u smash and skid animation?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't think i ever got an answer to my question. Does Ganon have IASA frames on anything besides his u smash and skid animation?

Technically, most moves in Smash have IASA frames. Just some of them are less obvious in the animation than others.

 

[Funkermonster]

How to escape or at least avoid from Ganon's SideB so I don't get grabbed a 2nd time? Not really all that familiar with this guy or some techniques like tech rolls, so I'm not used to facing him.

 

[Vermanubis]

How to escape or at least avoid from Ganon's SideB so I don't get grabbed a 2nd time? Not really all that familiar with this guy or some techniques like tech rolls, so I'm not used to facing him.

That's like asking how not to get hit in general, I'm afraid.

Your options are either to tech, which doesn't guarantee safety, but mitigates the danger of being regrabbed, or just avoiding them with good movement.

 

[Funkermonster]

That's like asking how not to get hit in general, I'm afraid.

Your options are either to tech, which doesn't guarantee safety, but mitigates the danger of being regrabbed, or just avoiding them with good movement.

How do you do that?

 

[A2ZOMG]

How do you do that?

Press shield right before you hit the ground, really.

This might not work if you were already shielding before you got grabbed, because in other Smash games, there is a window where pressing the shield button prevents you from teching again.

 

[Funkermonster]

Press shield right before you hit the ground, really.

This might not work if you were already shielding before you got grabbed, because in other Smash games, there is a window where pressing the shield button prevents you from teching again.

Thanks, I think this is something I could definitely use (not just against Ganon, in general). Is there like any easy way to practce it in trainin mode or anything? I just wanna make sure I can execute/perform it consistently beforehand so I don't mess up in the heat of battle.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Explosive items or stages with hazards are your best bet for that.