Ganondorf

[Kidney Thief]

Listen to this man ^

 

[Xzsmmc]

This is just so goddamn lazy. It's not like Sakurai isn't aware of the complaints, he himself made fun of it on the Brawl dojo. Personally, I feel like this is disrespectful to the character. He's capable of so much more, but it looks like he'll forever but stuck as a clone to a character he has absolutely no connection to. It's just as bad as throwing the first ten years of Wario's history into the trash.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

To everyone complaining, we haven't seen the whole moveset yet. Maybe he has changed some moves that haven't been shown yet. Just wait.

 

[Neanderthal]

holy melodramatic much

let's face it: Sakurai keeps Ganon's moveset because he likes this moveset. It's not a clone, it's now canon -- it is Ganon's moves. They suit him somehow.

Brawl Ganondorf was amazing, soooo silly and fun. Also Gdorf was beast-mode in SSE. Sakurai loves this Ganondorf.

If he switched up the moveset entirely it would be... something different, it wouldn't be the Smashondorf anymore that we know and love. That up-tilt, is just.... wow. And the Dair stomp. It's all so him.

Imagine if they took your favorite character and gave them an underwhelming boring clone moveset that doesn't make sense (like a weapon & magic character fighting like a street fighter) and completely ignores the rich history of that character in their games.

Then people started claiming that this fake version of your character is now the real canon version.
Then you may realise why many of us want to punch you right now.

What's worse is that people now see this as the real Ganondorf. It's completely ruined the authentic image of this otherwise brilliant character to so many people. Frustrating.

 

[Neanderthal]

It's also killed Ganondorfs' popularity.

He used to be way more popular than Ridley, MewTwo, K.Rool, Metaknight and every other villain aside from possibly Bowser.

Now people just see him as that slow moving goosey guy. It's cost the character most of his popularity and badass factor in the eyes of smash fans.

 

[Trigger123]

I've seen the gameplay too and by his motions I can't see that much would change, his design is the same too I almost wish that had hyrule warriors design. Maybe it is fake but probly not and maybe there is some new moves in there.

 

[infomon]

Imagine if they took your favorite character and gave them an underwhelming boring clone moveset that doesn't make sense

I mained Sonic in Brawl.

But he sure wasn't Ganondorf bad, so I get your point

 

[Hydde]

Sak deserves a punch to the face for what he did to ganon in Brawl... if cloning him in melee wasnt enought.

Ganons´s case is the worst of all TBH. Coupled with bowser, they are the 2 most fmaous villains of Nintendo... yet in smash he is treated like garbage.

I really dont understsand this logic and i seriously would love to have a nice dinner with sakurai and ask him why on earth he do this to ganon.

Maybe this time he will be a force to be reckoned, and im still hoping that his alternative moves will be so wizardry and mindblowing that ill have to eat my words.

Anything less than that and ill rage.

my gosh... if his alternate moves end being purpleish versions of Captain falcon alternates.... ill ask sakurai to resign.

 

[NK1046]

I feel like the custom movesets will change Ganondorf's movesets (although it sucks that we cant use that online and we are stuck with Captain Falcondorf), like his second pair of specials will be sword based, and his final moveset makes him more of a sorcerer.

 

[SmashBro99]

After Toon Link, I have no hope that Sakurai really cares about Zelda / it's fans at all.

I doubt he's played a Zelda game tbh. Lazy as ****.

If we get Impa and she's also a clone of Sheik as opposed to using her Hyrule Warrior moves, it's basically confirmed.

 

[NK1046]

After Toon Link, I have no hope that Sakurai really cares about Zelda / it's fans at all.

I doubt he's played a Zelda game tbh. Lazy as ****.

If we get Impa and she's also a clone of Sheik as opposed to using her Hyrule Warrior moves, it's basically confirmed.

So obviously Dark Pit means he means he hates the Kid Icarus franchise (sarcasm)

 

[Hydde]

He didnt used any of the hyrule warriors aspects of Ganon, so yeah you know whats going to happen.

 

[SmashBro99]

So obviously Dark Pit means he means he hates the Kid Icarus franchise (sarcasm)

It just means adding Palutena wasn't good enough for him and he wanted to sneak in another of his characters lol. And watch Dark Pit not even be a clone, I haven't played KI but I've heard he could have a unique moveset with other weapons?

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

It just means adding Palutena wasn't good enough for him and he wanted to sneak in another of his characters lol. And watch Dark Pit not even be a clone, I haven't played KI but I've heard he could have a unique moveset with other weapons?

He will be a clone since he was with Lucina and Doctor Mario rather than Pit and Palutena

 

[SmashBro99]

TLink and Ganondorf aren't there, I doubt those are the final placements anyway.

 

[Hydde]

If Dark Pit is an actual new character.... ill lose all respect for that man.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Pretty hyped about Ganon. A lot of you guys ARE being melodramatic. He can barely be considered a clone anymore anyway.

Who cares what his moveset is, I get to wreck some face with THE MANONDORF.

 

[Erimir]

All he really needs to do to satisfy people is:

1. Make him not suck
2. Give him a few new moves.

/me enters bargaining stage

We know Dark Dive is staying, but a new Neutral B and/or Down B would be great. Combine that with a few new standard attacks a la Bowser and that's good enough. If he's not using the sword, his current standard attacks are just as good as any other conceptually. Falcondorf doesn't need to go away completely, but come on, at least ONE canon Ganon special move would be nice.

Personally, making him a sword-user wasn't my favorite idea... I'd rather he get a trident, but even then I can see how that's more fitting for Beast Ganon form (which I would totally support). But the weapon is not what's truly necessary. What's truly necessary is for him to get some magical attacks that come from the game. A Dead Man's Volley or a shockwave ground pound (a la Ocarina of Time), that sort of thing. His standard attacks are pretty much fine as far as the concept... they just need to be better.

If it turns out that Bowser got updated because he sucked too much... ZSS got rocket boot updates she didn't even need... DK and Link got new, canonical dash attacks... Sheik got rid of that crappy chain which wasn't needed to split her from Zelda... Pit got three new special moves AND a new Final Smash AND a clone... But Ganondorf can't even get ONE special move from his own games...

It's just profoundly irritating. Even if all he did was change his neutral B to something that actually comes from Zelda games, I would feel like he was throwing us a bone. Seeing other characters get updates to make them match canon or improve their move sets while Ganondorf, the crappiest and least accurate veteran of them all, stays the same is just ridiculous.

Here's hoping that we have more to see from Ganondorf is all I can say. What we've seen so far I can live with, as long as there are some significant changes to other parts of his move set.

 

[Yonder]

Yeah, this Ganondorf is SSB4 truly is disappointing. In Melee, whatever clones were there was at least he looked and sounded badass. Brawl turned him into a joke character almost moreso than Pichu. And now he returns still as a worn out old man without his own moveset.

Was it so much to ask for his Hyrule Warriors look with a couple of new moves? I hate his Twilight Princess look. He doesn't look like an intimidating warrior like in Hyrule Warriors, he looks like an old geezer edging retirement :/

So yeah, was considering secondarying him, but I'm going to have to pass on that again. Better luck in Smash 5 Ganondorf.

 

[Hydde]

Yeah, this Ganondorf is SSB4 truly is disappointing. In Melee, whatever clones were there was at least he looked and sounded badass. Brawl turned him into a joke character almost moreso than Pichu. And now he returns still as a worn out old man without his own moveset.

Was it so much to ask for his Hyrule Warriors look with a couple of new moves? I hate his Twilight Princess look. He doesn't look like an intimidating warrior like in Hyrule Warriors, he looks like an old geezer edging retirement :/

So yeah, was considering secondarying him, but I'm going to have to pass on that again. Better luck in Smash 5 Ganondorf.

I also miss his melee look He looked way more fit.

Now he runs like and old man, looks like an old man and his body proportions are the ones of an old man. Not to mention he moves at the pace of an old man. His melee counterpart even when totally a clone, was so badass and merciless in comparison with the mockery he was in Brawl.

Im praying that the balance team spotted this fail and turned him into something in the lines of the new bowser

 

[GalacticPetey]

It'll stay the same because Sakurai mains Ganondorf, **** the actual Zelda fans right?

**** the actual Ganondorf mains who enjoy him right?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

**** the actual Ganondorf mains who enjoy him right?

Lots of Ganon mains want his moveset changed.

So even some of the ones that use him in a competitive setting and thus start to care less and less about how each character makes the transition to Smash as long as the moveset works fine are completely open to the idea.

Not saying Ganondorf mains that would hate to see his moveset change are wrongly minded, just that your sentiment isn't in the majority.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I acknowledge that Ganon has major flaws that need to be fixed. But I see know need to overhaul his entire moveset to give him a sword. I play Smash for gameplay, I don't care how accurate it is to Zelda, and this is coming from a huge Zelda fan. Would I be opposed to a Ganondorf that uses sword and magic? Heck no. But don't get rid of that moveset. People love the Melee Dorf.

And don't say he's super similar to Falcon. Play at least a minute of each and you will see the two are drastically different.

 

[Neanderthal]

**** the actual Ganondorf mains who enjoy him right?

Most of them want changes.
People who want no changes are clearly a very tiny minority compared to those that want to see G'dorf actually get some moves from his games, or moves that make sense to a weapon and magic character.

TLink and Ganondorf aren't there, I doubt those are the final placements anyway.

T.Link and Ganondorf are considered semi clones. It appears only pure clones are placed together at the end.

 

[Neanderthal]

I acknowledge that Ganon has major flaws that need to be fixed. But I see know need to overhaul his entire moveset to give him a sword. I play Smash for gameplay, I don't care how accurate it is to Zelda, and this is coming from a huge Zelda fan. Would I be opposed to a Ganondorf that uses sword and magic? Heck no. But don't get rid of that moveset. People love the Melee Dorf.

And don't say he's super similar to Falcon. Play at least a minute of each and you will see the two are drastically different.

Drastically different in the sense that... It's the same moveset, just made cripplingly slow.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I acknowledge that Ganon has major flaws that need to be fixed. But I see know need to overhaul his entire moveset to give him a sword. I play Smash for gameplay, I don't care how accurate it is to Zelda, and this is coming from a huge Zelda fan. Would I be opposed to a Ganondorf that uses sword and magic? Heck no. But don't get rid of that moveset. People love the Melee Dorf.

And don't say he's super similar to Falcon. Play at least a minute of each and you will see the two are drastically different.

I'm not denying that, it'd be a big change to have to play someone else to keep playing as the King of Evil, which is why I said you weren't wrong.

Look at it this way--when it comes to Ganondorf in Smash from Melee onwards, Sakurai seems to be keeping you in mind more than the fans of the character in Zelda who want to play a Ganondorf who feels like he came from a Zelda game. So you won't ever have to be disappointed in Ganondorf.

 

[SmashBro99]

"Semi-clone" is still a clone, just one with different animations and very few move differences. Lazy either way.

 

[GalacticPetey]

"Semi-clone" is still a clone, just one with different animations and very few move differences. Lazy either way.

But they play nothing alike.

 

[SmashBro99]

But they play nothing alike.

One is slow and powerful one is fast and weaker. A few moves act differently/launch enemies in different directions, big whoop still lazy.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

One is slow and powerful one is fast and weaker. A few moves act differently/launch enemies in different directions, big whoop still lazy.

Falco's attacks were barely different from Fox but managed to feel completely different. We loved him. Same with Ganondorf, he feels incredible to play in Melee (and inevitably in Smash 4, seeing as Bowser got buffed).

No, the thing we're not fond of is using Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda as the basis for a clone for Captain Falcon. Quite a few of us want Ganondorf to be unique and for the slow, powerful Captain Falcon clone role to be given to another F-Zero racer. Don't deny that Ganondorf as he is lacks anything fun about him. As for competitive worth, he's going to be BUFFED, not nerfed, from Brawl.

 

[Morbi]

Imagine if they took your favorite character and gave them an underwhelming boring clone moveset that doesn't make sense (like a weapon & magic character fighting like a street fighter) and completely ignores the rich history of that character in their games.

Then people started claiming that this fake version of your character is now the real canon version.
Then you may realise why many of us want to punch you right now.

What's worse is that people now see this as the real Ganondorf. It's completely ruined the authentic image of this otherwise brilliant character to so many people. Frustrating.

Honestly, it does not bother me to much. If people erroneously assume that Falcondorf is a canon variant, that is their prerogative. I am just content that he is in the game with a move-set that I am quite fond of.

 

[SmashBro99]

I don't care if he's the worst character in the game...lol

 

[Morbi]

Lots of Ganon mains want his moveset changed.

So even some of the ones that use him in a competitive setting and thus start to care less and less about how each character makes the transition to Smash as long as the moveset works fine are completely open to the idea.

Not saying Ganondorf mains that would hate to see his moveset change are wrongly minded, just that your sentiment isn't in the majority.

His sentiment does not need to be in the majority. The majority is irrelevant to what happens to Ganondorf's move-set anyways. The point he was attempting to convey is that the people who currently enjoy Ganondorf are more important than random Legend of Zelda fans that want him to be more reminiscent of canon Ganon.

 

[Khao]

Guess I'll just step up for a moment and say what's my stance on this.

The thing about Ganondorf's moveset is not that he's a Falcon clone.

That moveset is simply not who Ganodorf is. That's not how he fights. That's not how he moves.

I'd argue that his very idle posture (especially in Melee) is already unlike how he acts as a character, Ganondorf rarely ever puts himself in a fighting pose, he stands tall and proud as if he doesn't take his opponent seriously (because he really doesn't) and treats you more like an annoying thing than an equal fighter, even though he knows that you are.

Just look at this guy.

Turning my magic against me? Whatever dude, I got a fancy cape and I'm a ****ing majestic represantation of pure power, who the **** even cares, take it back.

His current side B and just a couple of his standard moves are the only things in his whole moveset that really feel anything like Ganondorf, I don't even mean they should give him a sword (though it would be very welcomed), he just should move as if he was ****ing Ganondorf.

His down B? I seriously can't imagine any incarnation of Ganondorf doing that, and his up B is even worse. I could see him doing something similar to the Warlock Punch, but when put together with those other two specials, it's just rubbing salt on the wound.

Ganondorf simply doesn't fight like that, the fact that they're moves taken from Falcon is just what's making things even worse. Not only does he not feel like Ganondorf when he fights, but he doesn't because his moves are mostly borrowed from a different character, one that has absolutely no relation to him in personality, style, or abilities.

In most of his games, he does move slowly and even stays still in one place, but that's mostly just an act of intimidation. When he does get to move, he's been shown to get pretty ****ing agile, especially if we're talking about his Wind Waker incarnation, but even in Twilight Princess (the version he's based on) his moves were sudden and precise, definitely not about pure brute force.

So yes, Ganondorf as he currently is simply needs to go. Give his moveset to somebody else if you really want to keep it, (good excuse for another F-Zero character) but Smash Ganondorf is just terribly done. I'm not gonna use the lazy card because I hate seeing hard working developers being called that all the freaking time, but the fact is that Ganondorf is currently not true to his character, and in a fighting game, especially one that's a crossover pulling content from other games, that is a big deal.

I'm not even mad at this point, I knew this was going to happen again even though I was really hoping for the contrary. Brawl was probably his last chance of getting a new moveset, so I can't say I'm dissapointed, and it's not like, unacceptable or anything, this is still better than getting no Ganondorf at all, but it's still freaking lame to see one of the most iconic gaming villains of all time being reduced to this.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

His sentiment does not need to be in the majority. The majority is irrelevant to what happens to Ganondorf's move-set anyways. The point he was attempting to convey is that the people who currently enjoy Ganondorf are more important than random Legend of Zelda fans that want him to be more reminiscent of canon Ganon.

I'm not denying that, it'd be a big change to have to play someone else to keep playing as the King of Evil, which is why I said you weren't wrong.

Look at it this way--when it comes to Ganondorf in Smash from Melee onwards, Sakurai seems to be keeping you in mind more than the fans of the character in Zelda who want to play a Ganondorf who feels like he came from a Zelda game. So you won't ever have to be disappointed in Ganondorf.

I already responded to this sentiment. Maybe you should read the posts you like, because you liked this one and didn't seem to acknowledge it as the follow-up to the post you quoted from me.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Guess I'll just step up for a moment and say what's my stance on this.

The thing about Ganondorf's moveset is not that he's a Falcon clone.

That moveset is simply not who Ganodorf is. That's not how he fights. That's not how he moves.

I'd argue that his very idle posture (especially in Melee) is already unlike how he acts as a character, Ganondorf rarely ever puts himself in a fighting pose, he stands tall and proud as if he doesn't take his opponent seriously (because he really doesn't) and treats you more like an annoying thing than an equal fighter, even though he knows that you are.

Just look at this guy.

Turning my magic against me? Whatever dude, I got a fancy cape and I'm a ****ing majestic represantation of pure power, who the **** even cares, take it back.

His current side B and just a couple of his standard moves are the only things in his whole moveset that really feel anything like Ganondorf, I don't even mean they should give him a sword (though it would be very welcomed), he just should move as if he was ****ing Ganondorf.

His down B? I seriously can't imagine any incarnation of Ganondorf doing that, and his up B is even worse. I could see him doing something similar to the Warlock Punch, but when put together with those other two specials, it's just rubbing salt on the wound.

Ganondorf simply doesn't fight like that, the fact that they're moves taken from Falcon is just what's making things even worse. Not only does he not feel like Ganondorf when he fights, but he doesn't because his moves are mostly borrowed from a different character, one that has absolutely no relation to him in personality, style, or abilities.

In most of his games, he does move slowly and even stays still in one place, but that's mostly just an act of intimidation. When he does get to move, he's been shown to get pretty ****ing agile, especially if we're talking about his Wind Waker incarnation, but even in Twilight Princess (the version he's based on) his moves were sudden and precise, definitely not about pure brute force.

So yes, Ganondorf as he currently is simply needs to go. Give his moveset to somebody else if you really want to keep it, (good excuse for another F-Zero character) but Smash Ganondorf is just terribly done. I'm not gonna use the lazy card because I hate seeing hard working developers being called that all the freaking time, but the fact is that Ganondorf is currently not true to his character, and in a fighting game, especially one that's a crossover pulling content from other games, that is a big deal.

I'm not even mad at this point, I knew this was going to happen again even though I was really hoping for the contrary. Brawl was probably his last chance of getting a new moveset, so I can't say I'm dissapointed, and it's not like, unacceptable or anything, this is still better than getting no Ganondorf at all, but it's still freaking lame to see one of the most iconic gaming villains of all time being reduced to this.

If Ganondorf were to levitate instead of run I would be completely fine with his moveset (not really but still) How Ganondorf currently runs is just bad, as other people have pointed out he looks like an old man

 

[Xzsmmc]

If Ganondorf were to levitate instead of run I would be completely fine with his moveset (not really but still) How Ganondorf currently runs is just bad, as other people have pointed out he looks like an old man

It looks like the run of someone who just remembered he left his car keys back in his cubicle, and is jogging back inside to get them. It's embarrassing for the king of evil.

 

[Neanderthal]

Guess I'll just step up for a moment and say what's my stance on this.

The thing about Ganondorf's moveset is not that he's a Falcon clone.

That moveset is simply not who Ganodorf is. That's not how he fights. That's not how he moves.

I'd argue that his very idle posture (especially in Melee) is already unlike how he acts as a character, Ganondorf rarely ever puts himself in a fighting pose, he stands tall and proud as if he doesn't take his opponent seriously (because he really doesn't) and treats you more like an annoying thing than an equal fighter, even though he knows that you are.

Just look at this guy.

Turning my magic against me? Whatever dude, I got a fancy cape and I'm a ****ing majestic represantation of pure power, who the **** even cares, take it back.

His current side B and just a couple of his standard moves are the only things in his whole moveset that really feel anything like Ganondorf, I don't even mean they should give him a sword (though it would be very welcomed), he just should move as if he was ****ing Ganondorf.

His down B? I seriously can't imagine any incarnation of Ganondorf doing that, and his up B is even worse. I could see him doing something similar to the Warlock Punch, but when put together with those other two specials, it's just rubbing salt on the wound.

Ganondorf simply doesn't fight like that, the fact that they're moves taken from Falcon is just what's making things even worse. Not only does he not feel like Ganondorf when he fights, but he doesn't because his moves are mostly borrowed from a different character, one that has absolutely no relation to him in personality, style, or abilities.

In most of his games, he does move slowly and even stays still in one place, but that's mostly just an act of intimidation. When he does get to move, he's been shown to get pretty ****ing agile, especially if we're talking about his Wind Waker incarnation, but even in Twilight Princess (the version he's based on) his moves were sudden and precise, definitely not about pure brute force.

So yes, Ganondorf as he currently is simply needs to go. Give his moveset to somebody else if you really want to keep it, (good excuse for another F-Zero character) but Smash Ganondorf is just terribly done. I'm not gonna use the lazy card because I hate seeing hard working developers being called that all the freaking time, but the fact is that Ganondorf is currently not true to his character, and in a fighting game, especially one that's a crossover pulling content from other games, that is a big deal.

I'm not even mad at this point, I knew this was going to happen again even though I was really hoping for the contrary. Brawl was probably his last chance of getting a new moveset, so I can't say I'm dissapointed, and it's not like, unacceptable or anything, this is still better than getting no Ganondorf at all, but it's still freaking lame to see one of the most iconic gaming villains of all time being reduced to this.

If I could like this post more times, I would.
Hit every nail on the head.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Besides the gripes i mentioned before, the one thing that bugs me about smash ganondorf more then anything is his presence. Ganondorf should be a character you dont want to mess with, one that as his opponent you wouldnt even want to go near, but this one just doesnt have that. Even Ike feels more dangerous to be around just based on his power and the amount of area he can control, this ganondorf is just a sluggish brute that can be dealt with in a much easier manner. Hyrule warriors made him beastly in the right way, if he had that sort of presence and ability then he would actually truly feel like the king of evil that he is. But i guess we just wont get that

He could have buffs since brawl, but thats not really what im getting at when i say this anyway.

 

[Hexaped]

@ Khao Hey, that's a precise way to describe Ganondorf. Why not type a moveset for Ganondorf with those ideas? If you do not want to create a moveset, you could simply share a few ideas for replacement attacks, instead. Either way, I can help start: for the new walk animation, Ganondorf confidently strolls the way he did during OoT when young Zelda spied through her window. Would this animation reflect your idea of Ganondorf? If I could choose, I would not give Ganondorf a dash, since this would reflect his patient way of fighting.

@ HylianHeroBigBoss I understand that sentiment. That is why I think, metaphorically, Warlock Punch fits Ganondorf. It is a move which causes fear, and displays his power. I do think Warlock Punch should be replaced with a new move, but I also understand why Ganondorf could keep it.