Ganondorf

[Electric Tuba]

I didn't add Warlock Punch because I don't see any real point. It'll have two variations which may or may not make it useful but it's naturally a powerful move with ridiculous startup. To ask that to be changed is to basically ask for a new move for better or for worse. Reason I didn't mention variations for Dark Dive and Wizkick is because I feel they should naturally be more powerful, we shouldn't have to sacrifice something to make those two moves stronger.

We are asking for a new move. Warlock punch is garbage and has probably been used effectively, oh... six times in brawl and pm combined. It's just not good, we need it to change :/

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We are asking for a new move. Warlock punch is garbage and has probably been used effectively, oh... six times in brawl and pm combined. It's just not good, we need it to change :/

But it is soooooo satisfying when it hits

I'm coming back around to Falcondorf. At least in Brawl there were some decent differences. And I doubt we'll get much, considering the Zelda series is still working on 2 final smash moves shared among 4 characters, two of which basically share all specials.

"I'll take 'Forgotten Nintendo Series in Smash Bros.' for $400, Alex"

 

[Krysco]

We are asking for a new move. Warlock punch is garbage and has probably been used effectively, oh... six times in brawl and pm combined. It's just not good, we need it to change :/

Warlock Punch can be altered in two different ways, we don't know the ways yet and we don't even know what kinda Ganon we'll get but even if we get Falcondorf with Warlock Punch it has a chance to be useful. I've also seen it used in Brawl to help his recovery, the circumstances for it aren't common and it only marginally helps his bad recovery but it's more than what can be said for utilt.

 

[Electric Tuba]

But it is soooooo satisfying when it hits

I'm coming back around to Falcondorf. At least in Brawl there were some decent differences. And I doubt we'll get much, considering the Zelda series is still working on 2 final smash moves shared among 4 characters, two of which basically share all specials.

"I'll take 'Forgotten Nintendo Series in Smash Bros.' for $400, Alex"

It sure if fun, but from a competitive standpoint it's worse than nothing (accidental use probably means you die). I don't mind Falcondorf, but a useless move is just so disappointing.

Warlock Punch can be altered in two different ways, we don't know the ways yet and we don't even know what kinda Ganon we'll get but even if we get Falcondorf with Warlock Punch it has a chance to be useful. I've also seen it used in Brawl to help his recovery, the circumstances for it aren't common and it only marginally helps his bad recovery but it's more than what can be said for utilt.

The recovery gimmick does crop up occasionally, but basically never makes the difference between life and death. Uptilt actually has some legitimate uses: the charge can detonate Snake's mines safely, and can also spike him out of his up-b (very weird but it works). It's also not a terrible edgeguard, since it can hit below the stage (warlock punch cannot).

 

[Krysco]

The recovery gimmick does crop up occasionally, but basically never makes the difference between life and death. Uptilt actually has some legitimate uses: the charge can detonate Snake's mines safely, and can also spike him out of his up-b (very weird but it works). It's also not a terrible edgeguard, since it can hit below the stage (warlock punch cannot).

Hmm, the mine gimmick probably won't matter too much with Snake most likely not coming back but the edgeguarding part is interesting. In Brawl I would never use utilt as an edgeguard because of how safe the ledge is. However, in Smash 4 invincibility frames are based partly on how long one was in the air for. In theory it could be used as a rather effective edgeguard if one were to knock someone (without multiple jumps) off the stage just enough that they would need to grab the ledge but not get many invincibility frames.

That being said, Ganon has a number of other moves that could be used for edgeguarding and he lacks a quick upward attack. Uair is a decent replacement but I'd personally rather a traditional quick, upwards attacking utilt over a strictly edgeguarding one.

I'll agree with you on the uselessness of Warlock Punch if none of it's variants have any use either but until then I'm still going to have hope that one of the three will be tolerable.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I just want dead man's volley, that's it, that's all I need

Although a new moveset up tilt would be appreciated

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I just want dead man's volley, that's it, that's all I need

Although a new moveset up tilt would be appreciated

Dead Man's Volley is everything we need to have a perfect Ganondorf. The rest is pretty much okay, although I'd change his Down B too.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

If we're getting Brawl Ganondorf but buffed in speed and mobility, he still needs a new up tilt. It should be like Project M Ganondorf's up-tilt if they're gonna keep the same animation, but if they want to make it a new move that's also completely fine.

And Warlock Punch needs to go. If it stays then fine I guess, but it's never gonna be as good as the original Falcon Punch.

 

[Krysco]

Looks like I'm the only one with faith for Warlock Punch variations '-'. I suppose to be fair we don't even know if variations will be tournament legal and they have to be unlocked. If we do get something to replace Warlock Punch then I guess that's good, namely Dead Man's Volley or perhaps something original like Gerudo or a sword-based move.

I'm more harsh on utilt because it doesn't do what most utilts do and has little use in both Melee and Brawl. Warlock Punch also has minor uses but has the potential to be better. Whatever we get for utilt we're stuck with.

 

[Kamiko]

I shall use "The Hitbox" to counter this sudden occurrence! But I think "The Hitbox" could be a strike instead of a pommel attack, since Ganondorf used a particular, fast, slash to hit Link during WW. During that attack, Ganondorf quickly slashed and pointed his arm straight forward. You wnted multiple different versions of "The Hitbox" anyway, though. I suppose I simply dislike imagining Ganondorf using a pommel to strike.

What I said was "hiLtbox". It was a pun.

I think you misunderstood the idea though. I wasn't saying Ganondorf should have a pommel strike as his jab, as that would feel a little too weak for him. I was saying that it should be a slash, and still hit hard like the palm strike in Brawl, but the pommel would cause damage (and more importantly, flinching) right before the main attack if opponents were close enough. It's to deal with faster characters without losing the slow/powerful feel.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Wishful thinking, but I really wish Ganondorf would finally use that damn sword at some point, and perhaps have a bit of black magic in there too.

Looking at Ganondorf from Hyrule Warriors put chills down my spine, and that game isn't even being made primarily by Nintendo. Come on Nintendo! You can do better than FalconDorf this time.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Wishful thinking, but I really wish Ganondorf would finally use that damn sword at some point, and perhaps have a bit of black magic in there too.

Looking at Ganondorf from Hyrule Warriors put chills down my spine, and that game isn't even being made primarily by Nintendo. Come on Nintendo! You can do better than FalconDorf this time.

I know, right? He looks so glorious in HW with that mane. TP Ganondorf is very regal which suited him in the game. HW Ganondorf is just feral. I can actually see HW Ganondorf doing the SSB moveset much better.

But I'd love to get that sword- or dual-wielding moveset. Can you imagine him turning into OoT Ganon for his FS? Sweet...

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Daily reminder that we might still get Falcondorf and that this thread should sort prepare for that.

 

[Electric Tuba]

If we get Falcondorf with the HW Ganon look, I'll be confused but only a little disappointed.

If we get Totally New Moveset Ganon with not the HW Ganon look, I'll be initially sad then okay since it's a new freaking moveset.

If we get Flacon dorf with not the HW Ganon look, I will resign myself to my fate and cry.

If Ganon's not in the game I dropkick a puppy





I am now prepared

 

[Neanderthal]

I've been arguing all along that there's a good chance that G'dorf will get a new unique moveset.

Now I'm having big doubts.
Name because of the fact that It appears a number of pure clones are in the game. This is indicative of character creation being rushed at the end.
Every time we've got pure clones, it's been because they were rushed at the end (i.e. Melee, where as they had more time in Brawl).

We know Sakurai prioritises G'dorf very low, so if there were time constraints like it appears, I could see G'dorf getting the rushed semi clone treatment again.
Will be pissed....

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I've been arguing all along that there's a good chance that G'dorf will get a new unique moveset.

Now I'm having big doubts.
Name because of the fact that It appears a number of pure clones are in the game. This is indicative of character creation being rushed at the end.
Every time we've got pure clones, it's been because they were rushed at the end (i.e. Melee, where as they had more time in Brawl).

We know Sakurai prioritises G'dorf very low, so if there were time constraints like it appears, I could see G'dorf getting the rushed semi clone treatment again.
Will be pissed....

I think it's a bit unfair to revamp bowser, who is completely fine but not Ganondorf

 

[Neanderthal]

I think it's a bit unfair to revamp bowser, who is completely fine but not Ganondorf

Me too, but time constraints are time constraints... And we know Sakurai has given the Mario series much much higher priority than Zelda in recent times.

 

[Electric Tuba]

I think it's a bit unfair to revamp bowser, who is completely fine

...ever tried playing bowser competitively?

*tear*

 

[Neanderthal]

...ever tried playing bowser competitively?

*tear*

Ever tried playing Ganondorf competitively?

 

[Ultra*HappyCharge]

OHGAAAAAAAD PLEASE SPREAD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCE-iKciVJA

 

[SirRob]

I'm so glad Ganondorf keeps his moveset, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't bottom tier anymore

 

[CaptainAmerica]

WARNING: TOTAL BULL**** THEORIZING ALERT!!!

So everyone's been going on about the Trophy quiz theory, and that 'supposedly' we're 2 for 4 at this point. The Metroid trophy is also pretty well aggreed upon to be Ridley, but the Fi trophy is the one that came up with questions. Everyone agreed Ghirahim, and we know how well that turned out. So now people who believe the trophy theory are clinging to Impa, while others are saying she's just be a Sheik clone (she's not had her bad888 samurai moveset until HW)

So what if the trophy is not hintaing at a new character so much as a new moveset? Like if Ganondorf was overhauled?

Yeah, I know this is about the weakest theory imaginable, and even I'm one of the people who doesn't believe in the trophy quizzes. But IF the trophy hints were true, and IF Impa's moveset is too new, we might get something new for the Dark Lord.

...wow, my brain hurts from stretching too much. Useless theorizing is useless. Just show us Ganon already.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So Ganondorf has been buffed, at least his speed. Faster run speed, faster f-tilt, faster u-smash, he's looking pretty good imo. Didn't see Warlock Punch either, so here's hoping for Dead Man's Volley.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Aaaand I just saw the video. Still SSBB Ganondorf, but he looks a little faster.

Score, he's back. Not upgraded, but at least he's in. Good game, everyone.

 

[Hokori]

So Ganondorf has been buffed, at least his speed. Faster run speed, faster f-tilt, faster u-smash, he's looking pretty good imo. Didn't see Warlock Punch either, so here's hoping for Dead Man's Volley.

Yeah, optimism is nice. Also very interested in seeing custom moves for Ganny.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Also, his new animation coming off of his Up-B is ****ing awesome, it actually looks like he's a bit more flexible than a statue now.

 

[SvartWolf]

Yeah, optimism is nice. Also very interested in seeing custom moves for Ganny.

inb4 being the same that Cap. F.
At least we haven't seen Warlock punch. nor wizfoot, although warlock punch change is the only one really mandatory. oh, and I totally forgot u tilt... I mean it's not like people don't use it and avoid it like the plague, right?
Maybe that cpu in teh video did'nt used neutral B becasue now is a range attack and it was up close most of the time? (optimism yay!)

 

[MajorMajora]

Well, the new leaked battle footage pretty much confirms he'll be a clone. Here's hoping he'll at least have new B moves...

 

[Hokori]

We haven't seen Flame Choke either, but of course, that's the one special that should definitely stay. Still hoping that Dead Man's Volley will replace Warlock Punch and we may see a replacement for the Wizard Foot...otherwise, Ganondorf could've easily been placed by Lucina and CO. on the CSS.

Well, the new leaked battle footage pretty much confirms he'll be a clone. Here's hoping he'll at least have new B moves...

The normals are fine imo. As for his specials, that's really like 'make or break' for me.

 

[Electric Tuba]

I will play him regardless of what they do to him.

Sad about not getting Hyrule Warriors Ganon Hair tier, but it's okay. Plus the Ridley boards are probably about to implode Kappa

 

[Hokori]

I'm probably just used to P:M Ganondorf's D-Smash now and can't remember Brawldorf's much, but does the move seem to have less startup time than in Brawl?

 

[Robertzombie2]

as a ganondorf main things I've noticed

-he's faster given that he's only walking controlled by the cpu
-rolls are the same
-his short hop is lower
-ftilt is faster all around
-jab is brawl (noooooo)
-up-b is still rising uppercut (it grabs) but moves a bit farther and diagonal, also does a cool sideflip fitting for ganondorf after the grab lands
-downsmash is the same but with purple fire effects
-he stays in the air longer
-at the same time he seems heavier-upsmash is the same but faster with purple fire
-standing animation is the same

Ganondorf ledge hogged lucina around 0:30 of the shulk leak vid

 

[egaddmario]

At least we haven't seen Warlock punch and Wizard Foot yet.....right?

 

[•Col•]

Also, his new animation coming off of his Up-B is ****ing awesome, it actually looks like he's a bit more flexible than a statue now.

Still has the old man jog running animation..........

 

[HeavyLobster]

I do hope that Warlock Punch gets replaced, but if it doesn't then Ganondorf should at least have a realistic way of getting shield breaks so WP isn't completely useless again.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Aside from having to deal with the three most popular characters getting the middle finger salute, now I have to cope with Ganondorf being a likely sucky Falcon clone again? Why would you revamp Bowser, but not Ganon?

 

[NocturnalQuill]

After seeing the leaks, I'm sorely disappointed that he's still a semi-clone. Two games spanning across 12+ years, this is just silly now. Hard to believe that he's Sakurai's favorite.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Even if he's still Falcondorf, it should be noted that Ganondorf nonetheless looks WAY better than he was in Brawl.

This was what people SHOULD have been thinking of when Sakurai mentioned veterans being revamped--in attacks and overall strength, NOT gameplay concept (i.e. Ganondorf will change in some ares but he'll still overall be a strong, slow Captain Falcon clone).

 

[Hokori]

Even if he's still Falcondorf, it should be noted that Ganondorf nonetheless looks WAY better than he was in Brawl.

This was what people SHOULD have been thinking of when Sakurai mentioned veterans being revamped--in attacks and overall strength, NOT gameplay concept (i.e. Ganondorf will change in some ares but he'll still overall be a strong, slow Captain Falcon clone).

I don't know about "WAY" better, but there have been some adjustments from what we've seen. There are plenty of other things left to consider that we won't really know until release: How he'll fare against the rest of the cast, in-depth information on more of his moves, etc.

Don't think anyone should feel completely hopeless at this point though.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I don't know about "WAY" better, but there have been some adjustments from what we've seen. There are plenty of other things left to consider that we won't really know until release: How he'll fare against the rest of the cast, in-depth information on more of his moves, etc.

Don't think anyone should feel completely hopeless at this point though.

Yeah, the leak, despite all the bells and whistles, might still not be real, so we should just wait until release to make sure.